Valve Adjustment

[Bones85]

My bike has almost 12,000 miles on it and I haven't done a valve adjustment yet because I've been worried about messing something up

How difficult of a job is this and how easy would it be to ruin the engine or cam chain tensioner?

Is the Hot Cams kit worth it or should I just buy the shims individually?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJWTM6/

Also, here's the feeler gauge and caliper I was going to get:

http://www.amazon.com/25025-26-Blade...r+gauge+metric
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-01407A-E...gy_auto_text_y

Thanks.

[Runeknight95]

The OEM feeler gauge is like 2 bucks at autozone, I was going to buy one off amazon as well.

Im curious which feeler gauge everyone is using as well, because it needs specific values that dont seem to be on these gauges?

[Soujyu]

When I had my 250, having the Hotcams shims were a must to get the job done without having to wait days for shims. They are also cheaper than OEM shims and work just as well.

As for feeler gauges, go to a Sears store and get a set there. The ones they sell there will have the size range you'll need for the job.

Also, you will need to replace the gasket that goes between the cam chain tensioner and the engine block. I forgot which part number it is, but it's cheap insurance.

I know the how-to on the forums has a certain way of resetting the cam chain tensioner, but it's impossible to do. The way I reset the tensioner is to put the end that goes into the engine on a rubber mat and press down as I turned the screwdriver to reset the tensioner. Once I get it to the reset position, I used an X-Acto blade to hold it in until you get the tensioner mounted on the engine block. A picture hanger also works well.

[Bones85]

Originally Posted by Soujyu

As for feeler gauges, go to a Sears store and get a set there. The ones they sell there will have the size range you'll need for the job.

Also, you will need to replace the gasket that goes between the cam chain tensioner and the engine block. I forgot which part number it is, but it's cheap insurance.

I know the how-to on the forums has a certain way of resetting the cam chain tensioner, but it's impossible to do. The way I reset the tensioner is to put the end that goes into the engine on a rubber mat and press down as I turned the screwdriver to reset the tensioner. Once I get it to the reset position, I used an X-Acto blade to hold it in until you get the tensioner mounted on the engine block. A picture hanger also works well.

Is the one I have in the OP the wrong size range? I've read all the guides, etc. but I'm not sure which size range feeler gauges I need. Also, do you know where I could find that part number for the gasket?

Also, the one guide says to use molybdenum disulfide grease on a lot of different parts. Where can I buy this? I've searched and haven't really found anything that specifically says "molybdenum disulfide" grease.

[Bones85]

What would happen if valves were never adjusted? Would the engine just fail after a while and you'd have to buy a new motor for $500-$600? And is synchronizing the carbs after the valve adjustment necessary?

I'm reading all these tutorials and topics on this but I don't know if I'm going to be able to do all this myself. This seems like it's the most difficult routine maintenance to do on the bike.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Bones85

What would happen if valves were never adjusted? Would the engine just fail after a while and you'd have to buy a new motor for $500-$600? And is synchronizing the carbs after the valve adjustment necessary?

I'm reading all these tutorials and topics on this but I don't know if I'm going to be able to do all this myself. This seems like it's the most difficult routine maintenance to do on the bike.

The valves will get burnt and the engine will loss performance.

If you post here, you may find someone local willing to help you:

http://www.soflasportbikes.com/forum/

[Bones85]

So am I taking a big risk if I ride another 5,000-10,000 miles without doing a valve adjustment?

[rojoracing53]

I bought my bike with 1500 miles and although I don't know for sure I'm confident the original owner had the 600 miles service done which I think includes valves

But anyways I didn't inspect them for myself until 12000 miles and they where all off just outside the range so I had to adjust each one. Cameron waited till 15000 miles and all of his needed adjustment but a couple were in dire need and probably on there way to burning up. After we adjusted his valves and synced his carbs he said the bike runs like a new machine.

Don't wait just get it done before you cause more problems later.

[alex.s]

make sure you set the valve cover gasket correctly the first time. if you have to redo it, don't let the rubber thing on the water exit tube fall down the water pipe. and if it does, don't reach in with your grubby fingers to try to get it out (use the proper grabber tool), accidentally cramming it down further. also if you do that, when you go to pull the head off (because you have to stick a ziptie up through the bottom water feed tube line), use all the proper tools and don't strip bolts. when you strip a head bolt, i've found using 2500psi 2-part epoxy to bond the newly bought high-torque allen socket to the bolt works well. make sure none of the hardware falls down the cam chain path to the bottom, because taking off the clutch cover always rips the paper gasket.

oh yeah, all of that happened on the last valve job i did.
@ally99

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by alex.s

make sure you set the valve cover gasket correctly the first time. if you have to redo it, don't let the rubber thing on the water exit tube fall down the water pipe. and if it does, don't reach in with your grubby fingers to try to get it out (use the proper grabber tool), accidentally cramming it down further. also if you do that, when you go to pull the head off (because you have to stick a ziptie up through the bottom water feed tube line), use all the proper tools and don't strip bolts. when you strip a head bolt, i've found using 2500psi 2-part epoxy to bond the newly bought high-torque allen socket to the bolt works well. make sure none of the hardware falls down the cam chain path to the bottom, because taking off the clutch cover always rips the paper gasket.

oh yeah, all of that happened on the last valve job i did.
@ally99

So what you saying is don't let you do anyone else valves

[ally99]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

So what you saying is don't let you do anyone else valves

DEFINITELY not while he's distracted, at least.

[alex.s]

it's funny. i've done valve jobs on ninja 250s so many times... at least 20 times on 6 or 7 different ninja 250s. but i royally screwed the pooch that time. the time before that, i did my own bike, it took about 30 minutes start to finish.

[Bones85]

Only 30 minutes?

I'm guessing this will take me at least ten hours

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Bones85

Only 30 minutes?

I'm guessing this will take me at least ten hours

Alex's bike are never fully together since they're in a perpetual state of having their motors rebuilt so I'm thinking he didn't have to remove as much stuff as us

[alex.s]

jason gets me.

[Bones85]

Which feeler gauges did you guys use?

[alex.s]

accurate ones.

[Bones85]

Would the one in the OP be considered accurate?

[alex.s]

you need a 0.10mm blade, a 0.20mm blade, and a 0.30mm blade.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by alex.s

accurate ones.

I couldn't find metric so I used a set that has .001-.040 in single .001 steps so its very accurate but you have to be go a using math conversions or your going to get lost. I showed @CycleCam303 how to used the .03937 factor and after the first two valves he was on a roll.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by ally99

DEFINITELY not while he's distracted, at least.

To be fair to Alex I totally forgot to mark my cam chain and cam sprockets the first time I did mine because I was talking to ****ing Cameron so I had to take it apart and reinstall them like 5 times before I was 100% sure I understood EVERYTHING about how it all was timed and then prayed for the best in total I think my first time was like a 10hr job

[Bones85]

How about this one? http://www.sears.com/kd-tools-metric...94117000P#desc

25-blade gauge measures clearances from 0.04 to 1mm. Blade sizes:0.04, 0.05, 0.06, 0.07, 0.08, 0.09, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25, 0.30, 0.35,0.40, 0.45, 0.50, 0.55, 0.60, 0.65, 0.70, 0.75, 0.80, 0.85, 0.90, 0.95 and 1mm. Blade Lengths: 3 in. long

[rojoracing53]

That'll work so now what do you have to measure the shims?

[Bones85]

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-01407A-E...glink122969-20

[rojoracing53]

Micrometers are better for measuring shims then calipers are. I can't comment on the quality of any of the cheap $30 stuff since I just use what's in my machine shop and that stuff is all like $2-300 and comes with certificates for accuracy. But I totally understand the not wanting to spend $500 on tools to do a $200 job

[Bones85]

So something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-...ds=Micrometers

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Bones85

So something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-...ds=Micrometers

Yes and no
Yes that's a micrometer but that measures in inches, you want to stick with all metric if you can. It may be hard to find an anolog(your link) metric micrometer but I know that make digital ones that you can select mm or inch with the push of a button.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

To be fair to Alex I totally forgot to mark my cam chain and cam sprockets the first time I did mine because I was talking to ****ing Cameron so I had to take it apart and reinstall them like 5 times before I was 100% sure I understood EVERYTHING about how it all was timed and then prayed for the best in total I think my first time was like a 10hr job

just fyi, if you put it at tdc1 the stator rotor has a white mark you can see through the peek hole on the stator cover. the cams have lines that line up with the top of the head and are marked as exhaust or intake cams. aside from that it doesn't matter "where" the chain is so marking the chain isn't really important so long as the cams are lined up with the crank
'

i bought my micrometer and feeler gauges from harbor freight. i think total they were probably $10 for both.

[Runeknight95]

This one looks like a bettet/cheaper feeler gauge http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Metric-T...c+feeler+gauge

lade thickness: 0.02, 0.03, 0.04, 0.05, 0.06, 0.07, 0.08, 0.09, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50, 0.75, 1.00mm

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by alex.s

just fyi, if you put it at tdc1 the stator rotor has a white mark you can see through the peek hole on the stator cover. the cams have lines that line up with the top of the head and are marked as exhaust or intake cams. aside from that it doesn't matter "where" the chain is so marking the chain isn't really important so long as the cams are lined up with the crank
'

i bought my micrometer and feeler gauges from harbor freight. i think total they were probably $10 for both.

Yeah that's how I got it done but I just didn't trust it so I had to make sure it did it all the wrong ways to make sure it was the only way that was right, kinda like a retards way of reverse engineering

But now people like us know more about it because we know the right way as well as the seven other wrong ways

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by Bones85

How about this one? http://www.sears.com/kd-tools-metric...94117000P#desc

25-blade gauge measures clearances from 0.04 to 1mm. Blade sizes:0.04, 0.05, 0.06, 0.07, 0.08, 0.09, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25, 0.30, 0.35,0.40, 0.45, 0.50, 0.55, 0.60, 0.65, 0.70, 0.75, 0.80, 0.85, 0.90, 0.95 and 1mm. Blade Lengths: 3 in. long

That one will work. It has the correct ranges you need. I forgot the exact clearances you need right off the bat, but you'll definitely be using the 0.04-0.10 gauges.

Doing my valves took three days. First day, tear your engine down to the point where you remove the cylinder head cover. Second day, do the measurements and adjust. Third day, put everything back together, sync the carburetors.

Also, be absolutely sure you have the correct number of links on the camshaft chain between gears! (Again, the exact number escapes me!)

Also, see this post a couple of years ago about the CCT and the gasket (and explains how I reset it): http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ght=CCT+gasket

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Soujyu

Also, be absolutely sure you have the correct number of links on the camshaft chain between gears! (Again, the exact number escapes me!)

just stick your finger in the hole the cct goes and push on the chain. at tdc if the cam marks dont line up with the case its not right.

the clearances for the intake are .11mm to .20mm and the exhaust are 20 to 30.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I bought my bike with 1500 miles and although I don't know for sure I'm confident the original owner had the 600 miles service done which I think includes valves

Does not include valves. 7500 miles is the OEM recommendation.

[rojoracing53]

Well then I was only 4500 late on my first scheduled inspection and nothing was far enough out of spec to worry about long term. I'm on the every 10k miles plan so I checked at 12,20,30 and my next will be at 40. First time I adjusted all 8 valves, second time adjusted 1 valve, third time no valves need adjustment and didn't really seem to move much at all since the prior inspection. Valve inspection with no needed adjustments are nice and fast.

[alex.s]

i think it depends on use. i've seen baby engines already over 0.05mm out of spec, and i've seen 30k engines still on original shims in spec. just depends

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think it depends on use. i've seen baby engines already over 0.05mm out of spec, and i've seen 30k engines still on original shims in spec. just depends

So what your saying is everyone needs to ride like me on the weekends. Ride that bitch like you stole it because the 5.0 are right on your ass. This will get you the best engine wear

[Nemesis]

No way in hell I'd ever attempt to do this again. I broke the cam lobes (trying to put it back in place).

I'll pay and have paid a mechanic to do this for me.

[alex.s]

you broke your cam lobes? how the ****?

[Nemesis]

Dood, I posted and explained how way back. Never again.

[alex.s]

link?