ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 > 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 4th, 2020, 08:51 AM   #1
daverdfw
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: David
Location: Fort Worth,TX
Join Date: Nov 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250

Posts: 386
What are my throttle bodies sub-throttle doing here?

Have another thread about a race bike I bough that I am trying to fix, as soon as I turn the power on I heard clicking.

I pull the airbox and see this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lebyb07rlh...%20PM.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2cfysw5go...%20PM.mov?dl=0

whats going on here? Do i Need to get a new throttle body? I also ready it could be something with the ECU? I know this ECU is flashed, so maybe they modified the logic of the sub throttle?
daverdfw is offline   Reply With Quote




Old March 5th, 2020, 07:09 PM   #2
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
It's perfectly normal start-up calibration. Unlike main human-controlled throttle-bodies, the sub-throttle-bodies are ECU controlled and DO NOT have TPS sensor.

So imagine you're the ECU and you're sitting in dark room with no idea what's going on in outside world. All have are multiple screens telling status of various sensors. One screen tells you air-temperature. Great! You know whether you should put on sweater or coat. Another screen tells you coolant-temperature. Awesome! Now you know whether you should dump in an extra +20% for cold-starting.

Same with TPS sensor, you'll know how far the human has twisted throttle and can look up appropriate fuel and ignition-advance value on 3D maps.

Now you (ECU} are in complete control of sub-throttles, but without a TPS, how would you know what position the butterflies are in? You don't!! So on start-up, you just spin stepper-motor towards closed position several times you can be sure butterflies are in closed position when engine starts. That way, if some human has messed with sub-throttles by manually manipulating it, you can be sure they're closed by spinning motor towards closed position. If butterflies are already closed, this spinning towards closed just pushes them against the stopper and causes some clicking/rattling sounds. Which is what you're hearing, perfectly normal.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 5th, 2020, 07:12 PM   #3
daverdfw
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: David
Location: Fort Worth,TX
Join Date: Nov 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250

Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
It's perfectly normal start-up calibration. Unlike main human-controlled throttle-bodies, the sub-throttle-bodies are ECU controlled and DO NOT have TPS sensor.

So imagine you're the ECU and you're sitting in dark room with no idea what's going on in outside world. All have are multiple screens telling status of various sensors. One screen tells you air-temperature. Great! You know whether you should put on sweater or coat. Another screen tells you coolant-temperature. Awesome! Now you know whether you should dump in an extra +20% for cold-starting.

Same with TPS sensor, you'll know how far the human has twisted throttle and can look up appropriate fuel and ignition-advance value on 3D maps.

Now you (ECU} are in complete control of sub-throttles, but without a TPS, how would you know what position the butterflies are ? You don't!! So on start-up, you just spin stepper-motor towards closed position several times you can be sure butterflies are in closed position when engine starts. That way, if some human has messed with sub-throttles by manually manipulating it, you can be sure they're closed by spinning motor towards closed position. If butterflies are already closed, this spinning towards closed just pushes them against the stopper and causes some clicking/rattling sounds. Which is what you're hearing, perfectly normal.
makes sense, but I thought there is a Sub-throttle sensor? there is a TPS sensor which is grey, and then the servor motor has a connector and then on top of the server motor is another sensor with a similar shape to the TPS.

What does that one do? I am getting a radiator tomorrow, so I will be attempting to start the bike and see what happens. I was just wondering what this is doing my other FI bike doesnt make that kinda sound.
daverdfw is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 5th, 2020, 11:12 PM   #4
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Ah.... Test 2ndary TPS's closed position switch. Verify electronically that closed-position signal is properly sent to ECU. That is... signal is same at TPS AND at ECU connector.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 29th, 2020, 11:08 PM   #5
Brandon2020
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Ninja 250r
Location: Philippines
Join Date: Oct 2020

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250r

Posts: 3
We have the same trouble how did you fix that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daverdfw View Post
Have another thread about a race bike I bough that I am trying to fix, as soon as I turn the power on I heard clicking.

I pull the airbox and see this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lebyb07rlh...%20PM.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2cfysw5go...%20PM.mov?dl=0

whats going on here? Do i Need to get a new throttle body? I also ready it could be something with the ECU? I know this ECU is flashed, so maybe they modified the logic of the sub throttle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
It's perfectly normal start-up calibration. Unlike main human-controlled throttle-bodies, the sub-throttle-bodies are ECU controlled and DO NOT have TPS sensor.

So imagine you're the ECU and you're sitting in dark room with no idea what's going on in outside world. All have are multiple screens telling status of various sensors. One screen tells you air-temperature. Great! You know whether you should put on sweater or coat. Another screen tells you coolant-temperature. Awesome! Now you know whether you should dump in an extra +20% for cold-starting.

Same with TPS sensor, you'll know how far the human has twisted throttle and can look up appropriate fuel and ignition-advance value on 3D maps.

Now you (ECU} are in complete control of sub-throttles, but without a TPS, how would you know what position the butterflies are in? You don't!! So on start-up, you just spin stepper-motor towards closed position several times you can be sure butterflies are in closed position when engine starts. That way, if some human has messed with sub-throttles by manually manipulating it, you can be sure they're closed by spinning motor towards closed position. If butterflies are already closed, this spinning towards closed just pushes them against the stopper and causes some clicking/rattling sounds. Which is what you're hearing, perfectly normal.
Please help meee.. thanks
Brandon2020 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 29th, 2020, 11:09 PM   #6
Brandon2020
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Ninja 250r
Location: Philippines
Join Date: Oct 2020

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250r

Posts: 3
Did you fix that problem?
Brandon2020 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 29th, 2020, 11:09 PM   #7
Brandon2020
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Ninja 250r
Location: Philippines
Join Date: Oct 2020

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250r

Posts: 3
We have the same problem right now.
Brandon2020 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 9th, 2020, 08:19 PM   #8
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
@Brandon2020

Clicking could be defective sub-throttle sensor. Look up in manual how to test. If bad, replace it.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ninja 300 throttle bodies HoneyBadgerRy 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 10 December 7th, 2015 02:46 AM
Full throttle kills bike, throttle lag response. Diegone 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 10 April 30th, 2014 03:25 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.