installed battery backwards

[singlecoillover]

enough said....

I need a few things.

A: list of everything I've fried

B: reason why no spark when I attach battery correctly (all 4 fuses are still good)

Anybody in PA or MD want an 87 EX250 sans electrical system for a good deal?

I'm probably going to end up just hauling it to the junk yard. Unless I can get some spark back.

[austexjg]

Sorry to hear about the loss - I have seen the whole electrical system on ebay, might want to look into things more before you decide it's junk.

[jonthechron]

The manual says:

"Do not install battery backwards. The negative side is grounded. This is to prevent damage to the diodes and IC ignitor."

I assume this is where the damege has occured, a damaged ignitor, would prevent your plugs from sparking. Is the starter turning the engine?

I doubt there is any problem with the harness itself, IC ignitors are going for about 40-200 $ USED/NEW on ebay.

Link to IC ignitors on eBay

[Snake]

Before you send it to the junk yard try and part it out if you can't fix it.

[singlecoillover]

Very helpful link Jon, thanks! Is there any way to test this part with a multimeter to see if it's working?

Starter does not turn. The whole business is dead as a doornail, no lights or anything, not even a spark when I connect the negative lead. (properly) I just hope that whatever burned out prevented the current from damaging other components.

I may try to part it out if it's too expensive to fix, but with my lack of technical skill it could be a real challenge.

[kkim]

what 4 fuses did you check? did you check the 30A main fuse? I'm looking at a new gen service manual, but I imagine the pregens are the same?

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by singlecoillover

Very helpful link Jon, thanks! Is there any way to test this part with a multimeter to see if it's working?

Starter does not turn. The whole business is dead as a doornail, no lights or anything, not even a spark when I connect the negative lead. (properly) I just hope that whatever burned out prevented the current from damaging other components.

I may try to part it out if it's too expensive to fix, but with my lack of technical skill it could be a real challenge.

There sure is! Let me post up a pic.

And as kkim said, I would also definitely check the 30A fuse. If nothing turns on, it sounds more like the main fuse went out.

[singlecoillover]

Fantastic! I'm starting to think there may be hope.

I just checked the 4 10A fuses in the junction box by the battery. I thought there might be something like a main fuse, but I couldn't find it. Anybody know where it's located on these older bikes?

Great info on checking the ignitor, I don't have a kawasaki tester, but I do have a small digital Multimeter. Probably be out first thing in the morning spending some quality time with it.

Thank you all so much, this is really helpful!

[jonthechron]

According to the pic, the igniter should be pretty close to the coolant reservoir. I have an 09' so i'm not sure. According to the diagrams, it is the first component following the positive lead. Follow the positive from the battery and it should the first thing you stop on. and should state "30" on it, or not.,,

[greg737]

The 30 amp fuse is the bottom-most fuse in the fuse box on the righthand side of the bike. Take the small middle piece of fairing off and you'll see the main fuse box cover. The fuse box opens by prying the bottom part of the cover downward slightly then lifting it up (like a garage door). You might as well look at all the fuses in there while you're at it.

The CDI is a pretty delicate thing. It contains a number of blocking diodes to protect it from known electrical noise. Once a blocking diode is overwhelmed by too much current (more current than the engineer predicted it would ever see) it's burned out for good.

[kkim]

http://faq.ninja250.org/images/f/f4/..._Schematic.pdf

[kkim]

Corect me if I'm wrong, but if the problem is the CDI, that wouldn't stop the lights and starter from working, would it?

[singlecoillover]

I replaced the main fuse (had a 25 amp) and I have CONSOLE LIGHTS!!

Sadly I still have no turnover which was the whole reason I replaced the battery to begin with.

I may try to push start it. Can you shift it to first while the engine is not running?

[Snake]

Yes you can shift it into first withought the engine running. I suggest you get someone to help you push.

[g21-30]

You CANNOT use the '88+ CDI on the '87. The later CDI is digital, while yours is analog!

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by g21-30

You CANNOT use the '88+ CDI on the '87. The later CDI is digital, while yours is analog!

oh woah, if that is the case. The diagrams and testing procedure posted are for 1988+

Sorry, figured it would of have been similar through the years. I guess 86-87 had major changes to the electrical circuit.

[jonthechron]

But I did find you a link for an 87 Igniter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CDI-C...Q5fAccessories

[singlecoillover]

Got it running! I think it's safe to say that 25 amp fuse saved my butt. Thank you guys for all the help and links.

It ran pretty good for a while, but had no power and stalled out on me when I tried to go anywhere. I figured I'd go ahead and add some seafoam as long as I had it running. I poured a few ounces into the gas tank and poured a little through a long funnel into the carb intake (while it was running) and now...nothing. Won't start. Sounds kinda like it's flooded; I've been outside cranking for about half an hour with no luck.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by singlecoillover

Got it running! I think it's safe to say that 25 amp fuse saved my butt. Thank you guys for all the help and links.

It ran pretty good for a while, but had no power and stalled out on me when I tried to go anywhere. I figured I'd go ahead and add some seafoam as long as I had it running. I poured a few ounces into the gas tank and poured a little through a long funnel into the carb intake (while it was running) and now...nothing. Won't start. Sounds kinda like it's flooded; I've been outside cranking for about half an hour with no luck.

Happy to hear you got it running, check the wiki on how to drain the carbs.

[singlecoillover]

I found the article, but my fuel petcock doesn't have an off setting. Just PRI ON and RES, So I think I'm just draining the tank through the carb.

The one side keeps draining tons of amber colored gas into my jar, but the other side (left side if sitting on bike) won't drain; I pulled the screw completely out and it's dry.



Note all the gunk at the bottom ^

[singlecoillover]

I've determined that the left cylinder isn't getting any gas. It will fire if I pour gas directly into the left carb. I'm beginning to think that I got majorly screwed over when I bought this bike.

Is there any way to clear the lines without completely tearing the thing apart?

[g21-30]

Take both spark plugs out and leave them out while you do the following: using a funnel or whatever you need, pour a tablespoon of seafoam in each cylinder and crank the engine via the starter for a few revolutions. Check the spark plug gaps and if out of spec, either adjust them or best case, buy 2 new ones for later. Whatever you do, save the old plugs and after they have been out for an hour or so, reinstall them. Drain the gas tank and add a couple of 16 ounce bottles of seafoam. Crank the engine for a few turns, in order to get the seafoam into the carbs and let it sit overnight.

Next day, drain the carbs into a container and check the color of the liquid. If it looks different from the orignal seafoam, it cleaned the carbs! Drain the gas tank and save the seafoam for another time. Fill the gas tank with fresh gas and install the new spark plugs (correctly gapped!). Crank the engine up and see how it runs.

[Jakester9500]

Originally Posted by singlecoillover

enough said....

I need a few things.

A: list of everything I've fried

B: reason why no spark when I attach battery correctly (all 4 fuses are still good)

Anybody in PA or MD want an 87 EX250 sans electrical system for a good deal?

I'm probably going to end up just hauling it to the junk yard. Unless I can get some spark back.

sounds like you are having some better luck with this thing, which is awesome. however,
if things don't work out,i could be interested in some parts off of it, PM me a price idea you had in mind

[singlecoillover]

After soaking the carb to no avail, I ended up pulling it off and cleaning it. It was actually easier than I thought. I couldn't get the float bowls off due to cheap rusty bolts that the previous owner put on, but they are both getting gas now.

Still won't start. So either the gas isn't getting out of the float bowls or I have no spark. I was going to pull the spark plugs today but I need a longer extension.

While I was working on it today I found a loose wire. When I reattached it the fan started running even without the key in; I ended up leaving it off so my battery didn't go dead.

I guess we'll see where this goes, thanks for all the advice!
Posted via Mobile Device

[g21-30]

If the floats aren't functioning, the needle valve(s) could still be clogged in the carbs. You should still consider filling the carbs (bowls) with seafoam and soaking overnight.

Sounds like the previous owner disconnected the fan wire for that reason!

[singlecoillover]

Please forgive me for being a little clueless about this. Here's my understanding of how the carb works....

The gas runs DOWN the line on the side filling the bowls. Once they have a certain amount of fuel in them the floats shut off the flow of gas. When the engine is throttled gas is sucked UP out of the bowl, mixed with air, and then pulled into the engine. This lowers the amount of fuel in the bowls which lowers the floats which allows more gas in.

After cleaning today both bowls are getting fuel (left one was dry yesterday.) So if I have a problem with the carb wouldn't this mean there's a problem with the fuel getting UP out of the bowl to mix with the air? (clogged line?) Now unless the engine is running, no cleaner can really get into that line due to the laws of gravity. It would just be sitting in the bowl cleaning something that's already been cleaned (somewhat) and not helping the problem at all; no matter how long I left it sit. Of course I could be wrong about this whole thing because...quite frankly....I know NOTHING about working on automobiles. I just make a lot of educated guesses and ask a lot of questions, lol.

I really hope the problem lies with the spark plugs because I have no idea how I'm going to get those bolts off to get inside the float bowls to clean those lines.

The fan running all the time seems to say to me that someone wired something incorrectly. The wire was connected (at one point) to a drain plug on the side of the radiator, is was VERY corroded and appeared to have snapped off.

let me add that the engine died on me while I was adding seafoam into the carbs via the intake. I poured it in a little at a time and the engine would rev and blow white-ish smoke out the exhaust. Once it revved down i added a little more and then the engine abruptly died and has never (fully) started again. It almost sounded choked as if something just snapped or got switched off. Think of taking a deep breath and while you were inhaling getting kicked in the stomach.

Also a note: I cannot push start it, the rear wheel just drags. The bike will not budge an inch if it's in gear no matter how hard we push. I don't know if this is normal or not, but I thought I'd add it for good measure.

[kkim]

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

[singlecoillover]

You all have been super helpful and I want to sincerely thank you.

My bike is now running like a dream thanks to a new set of NGK spark plugs.

[noche_caliente]

glad they helped you work through it!

[Zytan]

Originally Posted by greg737

The 30 amp fuse is the bottom-most fuse in the fuse box on the righthand side of the bike. Take the small middle piece of fairing off and you'll see the main fuse box cover. The fuse box opens by prying the bottom part of the cover downward slightly then lifting it up (like a garage door). You might as well look at all the fuses in there while you're at it.

The CDI is a pretty delicate thing. It contains a number of blocking diodes to protect it from known electrical noise. Once a blocking diode is overwhelmed by too much current (more current than the engineer predicted it would ever see) it's burned out for good.

That is the spare 30 amp fuse. I have an 02 model and the Main 30 amp is a few inches to the left of the fuse box in the solenoid connection. On my bike there is a red plastic label that says "30 amp fuse".