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Old December 31st, 2015, 03:42 PM   #1
manumid
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95-07 CDI on Ninja 250R 2010

Hi guys,

Well, I finally decided to swap my 2010 Ninja 250r's "faulty" CDI. In this case, my problem was that the tacho displays the incorrect RPM (+1000 RPM) over the 7k RPM, when the CDI gets hot.

I created this thread because all the swaps uses the known 88-94 CDI, and I can't get it. Also, I liked more the 95-07 one, because the wiring is exactly coincident (for my surprise) with the newgen wiring.

The CDI I used has the following part number (#): 21119-0010 (supposedly the CDI of a 2007 motorcycle):





For doing the wiring harness, I got individual pins that are the same that the bike's original wiring, and fit perfectly:



Thus, I don't need to modify any original wiring of the bike at all.

The eight cables needed to do this are of this form:



And here are the eight ones finally done:



Once we finished, we now connect the cables in the "new" oldgen CDI:



For the connections, I've used the following equivalences that I've found in this thread: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169746







Then, It's just a matter of connect the correct colours. Then, started the bike and.. Viola! It just started like always!

Advantages against 88-94 CDI: Connections. We need to connect eight cables with other eight cables. No adaptions and all works great (side stand stop, emergency stop, etc).

Disadvantages against 88-94 CDI: Don't really know yet. If you want to get a 15k RPM rev limit, then you possibly want the 88-94 CDI. Apparently, this has the rev limit up to 14.5k RPM (I have to prove it, but I am afraid of damage some in the engine.. Nonetheless, I don't think that doing it just only once will afect it).

I could not ride it yet. In the next days I will test it, and I will get more precise conclusion.

Here are some photos of my "temporal" connection:







And here's one video of the bike running..(I could not wrap it, so I post only the link):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CwJoE3QVKo

Cheers and happy new year! Good roads!!
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Old December 31st, 2015, 05:43 PM   #2
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No reason to rev it that high, it's well outside the power band, so your just making noise and could possibly damage the engine.

As far as I know there is no rev limiter the CDI is old technology, it just doesn't know what to do at those high revs

Quote:
The EX-250's CDI uses a very simple advance curve: 2-dimensions, X and Y, with no compensation for load. It's pre-historic, rudimentary.

At about 4,000 or 4,200 rpm, depending on the year-model of the EX-250, the CDI has the ignition timing at full advance (38 degrees BTDC for the older engines or 42 degrees BTDC for the newer engines).

When you roll-on full throttle at about 4,000 rpm you suddenly make the air/fuel ratio much richer. In a modern car or motorcycle engine the ECU knows when this happens and it retards the ignition a bit because richer air/fuel ratios burn faster than leaner mixtures.

Because the EX-250 CDI has no way to compensate for the sudden rich (faster burning) mixture the ignition advance stays way up there at 38 or 42 degrees and you end up with too much of the burn occurring before the cylinder reaches TDC.

Instead of instantly making a lot more power (as you're anticipating when you open the throttle wide) you make only a little bit more. And the engine slowly lifts itself out of the situation.















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Old December 31st, 2015, 05:51 PM   #3
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Great info in this thread, thanks for posting up!
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Old January 1st, 2016, 07:21 AM   #4
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Very nice job!
Thanks the the thread.
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Old January 1st, 2016, 10:18 AM   #5
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just curious of what the purpose and if there are any benefits?
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Old January 1st, 2016, 12:06 PM   #6
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Def interested to see how this turns out.
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Old January 1st, 2016, 11:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
No reason to rev it that high, it's well outside the power band, so your just making noise and could possibly damage the engine.

As far as I know there is no rev limiter the CDI is old technology, it just doesn't know what to do at those high revs
As I could see, this CDI has the rev limiter up to 14.5k RPM, but I am not secure. However, I am thinking in not pulling the engine over 13500-14000 RPM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbinker View Post
just curious of what the purpose and if there are any benefits?
The principal purpouse is to avoid the newgen CDI problems. Apparently, the CDI's of the newgen bikes (this is, year 2008 and after), have some problems when they work for some time, and gets some temperature. This problems causes from incorrect tachometer reading to performance issues (many threads about this are here, search it and you can get more info).
The other point is that I want to test the bike's performance, because this oldgen CDI have 7 degrees of ignition time advance more than the newgen's CDI's (42º BTDC against 35º BTDC) in the mid-high rev range. Here are a table showing some more info:

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Old January 2nd, 2016, 02:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manumid View Post
However, I am thinking in not pulling the engine over 13500-14000 RPM.
This will give you absolute nothing.
Please take a look at the diagram (shows N250 vs N300) of the best tuned Ninja 250 Racebike.
There you'll see that the N250 has the highest power output @ 12418 rpm and doesn't rev higher than 13462 rpm.
The description of the N250 Racebike you find here: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248029
So what do you think will be the advantage of 13500 to 14000 rpm? I guess a destroyed engine...
The nowadays Ninja's you can NOT compare to the pre-gens, they are engine-wise a bigger calibre.
Happy new year and good luck

Last futzed with by Somchai; January 23rd, 2016 at 11:38 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 02:27 PM   #9
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The CDI doesn't have a rev limiter, as the modern super bikes have.

The ignition map ends, that's all, and it's far above the power band of the ninjette, no reasons to rev it that high unless floating valves, and damage is a rev limiter, if that's the case then yes one could consider that a rev limiter.

One can get it to rev over the mapping of the CDI, by downshifting extremely aggressively.

Proceed at your own risk.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 10:26 PM   #10
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More timing advance = more power?

Maybe someone can dumb this down to me a bit.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 10:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corksil View Post
More timing advance = more power?

Maybe someone can dumb this down to me a bit.
You might scroll down to "RTR-KAW-5-05", there's a diagram.
http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html

Happy new year
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 11:03 PM   #12
manumid
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Ok, so now I think I'll be careful and I won't overrev the engine (don't think it will be a problem, since I have reached the rev limit just a few times). Thanks all for the warnings.

Allright, I have done my adaption. I used silicone to do a homemade connector so the water can't get in.



It's pretty easy, just put some oil in the original connector. Thus, the silicone will not get stick.

The CDI finally putted in place (sorry for the dirt):



Quote:
Originally Posted by corksil View Post
More timing advance = more power?

Maybe someone can dumb this down to me a bit.
I haven't got really the answer. Changing the ignition timing we change how the engine "uses" (burns) the fuel. Obviously, there are limits.
In this case, to really got more power, I should probably rejet and put a aftermarket air filter (for example, K&N), and change the exhaust system. Doing this only I don't think I will gain power, but I expect the power curve will change a little (testing needed).
Ohter thing: with more ignition timing advance, the engine will work a little cooler than before (not sure).

Last futzed with by manumid; January 8th, 2016 at 10:08 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 11:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by manumid View Post
Ohter thing: with more ignition timing advance, the engine will work a little cooler than before (not sure).
Manuel, you're right. The water temperature from my Ninja is down by 8 degrees Celsius.

Happy new year to you and have fun with your Ninja
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Old March 14th, 2020, 02:03 PM   #14
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I ordered some connectors to match the stock harness and 07 CDI. Here are the part number.

DSC_2982.jpg

DSC_2983.jpg

1584200716971.jpg

1584202323878.jpg
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Old March 14th, 2020, 02:24 PM   #15
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Very nice adapter harness!

I did mod using Y-splice into harness: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...83#post1249383
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