BRT TIS troubles

[hoodadooda]

I finally got a Non programmable BRT TIS because I wanted a smoother ride and better accel... the bike has been sitting on the rear stand all day. No ride to work or pleasure rides before(or after) work.

Before I start on my problem, here's what I have:
Standard full system CF Area P
DJ Kit Stage 2 #2193 [#98 Main, DJ needle with clip on third groove down and two washers on top, Mixture/idle screws 3 turns out]
Stock airbox with snorkel removed
Kleen air system taken out
and NOW a BRT TIS CDI

*note* I'm running 87 unleaded from a local WaWa

Now for the problem:
With the stock CDI, I had smooth tach movement from idle and up, but I also had the issue of it reading wrong with the weather and this all happened after my warranty went out the window
I was reading the thread about swapping the newgen cdi with a pregen cdi and came across the BRT TIS thinking it was a better idea as I could use map one and not change a thing while having my issue solved and use map two (with 93 premium of course) when I'd get the itch for a more responsive throttle. I installed it with relative ease, started the bike and revved her when she was warmer. The needle on the tach started dancing wildly and when it snapped back to somewhere around 3000 rpms, I got some backfire/ popping. I was a bit confused and thought that maybe it was because I was on map 2 like an idiot, so I turned the ignition to off and flipped the BRT TIS switch on. I started the bike and crossed my fingers, but I still got what happened before, but it wasn't as erratic.

What I tried:
I was hoping and praying that it was just an idle screw mixture thing and I played around with both of them 1/4 turns at a time. I tried 3 1/4, 3(again to make sure), 2 3/4, and 2 1/2, but they did not change a thing.

So, what should I do? I have a day off tomorrow and I'm hoping this is something I can fix in less than a day because I love bike, but I love riding it a lot more.

[kkim]

for now, switch back to the original CDI and see if the problem symptoms go away.

[randomwalk101]

Is the unit prog or none prog?
Plug your stock cdi back and see if that solves the issue
if above is normal, you may have a bad unit? In that case, talk to Matt
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[hoodadooda]

I swapped between the BRT TIS Non-Programmable CDI and the stock CDI and my problems went away, so I guess I'll just leave the stock unit in there for now...
I absolutely hate the fact that I paid 215 dollars for a headache. Absolutely no offense to Matt though, his excellent service and prompt email responses were awesome. Not to mention delivery time was spot on even though we just went through a holiday weekend. So, should I just send him an email and ask "wat do?"

[wayanlam]

hi Aaron,

i had some problems with my BRT programmable when i first installed it, however i am lucky enough to live close to Sportisi HQ, so i sent my defective DCI back to them, and they sent me a brand new one. it took them a little while, because they were in the process of updating/upgrading either the hardware or software.

the issue that i had was that it was hard to get the bike started, even with the engine fully warmed. i had to hold the throttle 1/4 open for the engine to catch. otherwise it wouldnt start up. i did the swap between the original cdi and bri's cdi to test that it was in fact the BRT. and i was also at the local bali sportisi workshop, so they themselves said something was wrong with it.

when i got my replacement brt, and popped her in, the bike started up perfectly every time. i dont have (and never had) any issues with the rpm reading spazzing out. and now i believe the RPM is actually reading correctly, where as with the standard CDI i was usually about 1000 rpm over the actual reading (it dropped from around 8500~9000rpm at 100km/h to around 7500 rpm @ 100km/h, which i think is about correct).

i talked with a friend here who mods 250s, and sells the BRT (bought mine from him, but had sportisi install it while using their dyno), and he told me he ran through a whole bunch of problematic BRI cdi's to the point that he was weary to sell more. he ended up calling up the brt guys to ask what was going on, cos his cdi that he bought over a year ago had none of these issues... apparently (just what ive heard) they have switched out some of the original circuits/chips that they used in the first production of BRT's for some cheaper parts, which should do the same job, but cost them less. but obviously that's not the case, since they are running into errors/problems.

however they have a good service and reputable quality, they did not question my request to change the CDI, and repliced my faulty one with a new one that works.

just hold on, be a little patient, and see that Matt gets around to replacing your unit. in the meantime use the standard CDI, which i did for almost 3 weeks after i paid for my BRT he he :P

[hoodadooda]

I'm kind of hoping it's an issue with the BRT CDI and not anything on my bike that a bad stock cdi would be covering up lol

Also, I'd feel really silly if they get my BRT CDI, test it and find nothing wrong with it which I hope won't be the case.

[dubojr1]

hmmm.... I'm a little scared now. I just oredered one of these from Matt. Hope they take care of your issue. Good luck.

[austexjg]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

hmmm.... I'm a little scared now. I just oredered one of these from Matt. Hope they take care of your issue. Good luck.

Me too - this is making me feel a little sick to think about possible problems with the quality of the unit - it was one of the selling points. Why change to cheaper parts and added headaches.

Hope Matt has an answer to fix this problem - factory CDI issue was the reason I upgraded.

[randomwalk101]

Matt/Sportisi will take care of you. just contact them and have it swapped out. I bought mine a year or so ago...works great.

[ztrack157]

Question Number one: How many miles are on your bike?

The reason I ask is because if you have reached mileage close to the service point for a valve adjustment then your valves can be out of spec possibly. With the advance set to where it is at the symptoms you are describing indicates that they are not in spec. With the bike completely hot the issue would go away but then again that is a pain in the ass.


All igntions are warrantied for one year from date of purchase. After the one year has passed I will sell ignitions at cost to buyer who have issues outside of the warranty period.

If anyone has any issues they can call me at any time and I will address it immediately.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

All igntions are warrantied for one year from date of purchase. After the one year has passed I will sell ignitions at cost to buyer who have issues outside of the warranty period.

If anyone has any issues they can call me at any time and I will address it immediately.

Thanks Matt, that is reassuring!

[austexjg]

Shewwwww...

[hoodadooda]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Question Number one: How many miles are on your bike?

2451 miles, do I need my valves adjusted already?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by hoodadooda

2451 miles, do I need my valves adjusted already?

That would be a....... NO!

Matt is on board now with your problem. I'm sure he will give any assistance he can.

[ztrack157]

No you should not. Double check all the vaccuum lines since you removed the kleen air system. I had that issue myself.

[hoodadooda]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

No you should not. Double check all the vaccuum lines since you removed the kleen air system. I had that issue myself.

Everything seems to be in order and I checked the three places that I capped and the vacuum caps were still there along with the zip ties I put around them as well.

I also got brand new gaskets for my Full Area P because one of the reused ones had a leak, could this have caused an issue that the stock cdi wouldn't recognize/ show symptoms of? I went close to 50 miles(25 to and from a dealership for some washers for oil changes) with it like that without knowing about it.

[ztrack157]

I am not ruling anything out. Install the new ones and crank it up. If it still has issues I will pay for you to send it back for me to fiddle with. Or if needed exchange with BRT.

Are you still running 87 octane?

[hoodadooda]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

I am not ruling anything out. Install the new ones and crank it up. If it still has issues I will pay for you to send it back for me to fiddle with. Or if needed exchange with BRT.

Are you still running 87 octane?

Should I empty the tank, fill it with 93 octane, and then try with the BRT... after letting it run a little with the 93 octane first.

[ztrack157]

Yes the RON is 92

[hoodadooda]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Yes the RON is 92

Alright, gonna give it a shot.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Yes the RON is 92

RON 92 is equivalent to PON 87, which is what we have in the states, no??

from the internet...

Below is an approximate comparison chart, these numbers can vary by as much as 2 grades
RON MON PON
90 83 86.6
92 85 88.5
95 87 91
96 88 92
98 90 94
100 91.5 95.8
105 95 100
110 99 104.5

[ztrack157]

Kelly that was improper useage of the term by me I guess. They research and test with 92 octane but I'm not sure which one they go with. Sportisi runs its race map with 96 octane race fuel.

[kkim]

Okay... sorry, Matt, just trying to keep this thread on track so we all can understand the thought process to straighten this out.

It sounds like he may have received a bad unit... it happens with all companies on occasion. Good job in making sure the customer is covered and that you stand your product 100%.

[ztrack157]

I may need to adjust the mapping if required to be at 20 deg advance for 3000 rpm and under for ease of starting. That is if it doesn't run properly after he gets the gaskets in and some premium fuel.

[ztrack157]

As with all products I have to try to trouble shoot first. If that doesn't work then I scream at the manufacturer.

[HKr1]

87 octane wouldnt make the tach act whacky, or make the motor run funky either.

Sounds like a bad egg......

[ztrack157]

^ Not ruling it out.

The symptoms Aaron is describing I have seen before with two different ignitions on the same bike. The ignitions ran properly on a different 250 however. These were race bikes but I was letting them play with the non programmables. The racer who had issues would get the bike to start and would have the symptoms that Aaron is describing. When completely hot the engine would not exhibit any issues. When cold it would act up. She went in and checked the valves and she was not at 7500 miles yet either. She found not only were her valves a little tight but the motor was just slightly off TDC as well. Once everything was in order we threw her new ignition on and she has yet to have an issue.

I have a fleet of bikes to test it on out here if it doesn't work properly there. As said if theres an issue I will handle it

[hoodadooda]

So I emptied the tank entirely and made sure that the little bit of old fuel was burnt off and then I put 93 in which was RON+MON/2 (that's how the numbers are ALL around me at all the gas stations), so according to kelly's chart would be 97(?) RON which is 92 PON which I think would be the number they put on the gas stations anyway.

GOD I WISH I HAD AN A/C'd GARAGE ON THESE 102 DEGREE DAYS HERE IN VA

With the premium in and my stock cdi, I took a ride to my friend's house and noticed a drastic difference between the regular gas and the premium which I didn't expect, so I figured that bad gas MAY have been the issue. I rode home and swapped the cdis. I tried to start her up and the ignition would turn, but she wouldn't run. On the second try, she started up and ran well with only one problem, the tach would go down for less than a split second and come back really strong. It worked seemingly well for a little less than a minute before doing exactly what it was doing before.

[ztrack157]

Check one last thing for me then I'll have you send it back. Check both lines on the petcock and that they are secure. And that the valve is not on Prime.

[ztrack157]

It sounds like the Line of code programmed in is incorrect.

[hoodadooda]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Check one last thing for me then I'll have you send it back. Check both lines on the petcock and that they are secure. And that the valve is not on Prime.

I checked those when I emptied the tank and switched the valve to prime when I put in premium and switched it back to on before I took her on a control run with the stock cdi. Before I stuck the TIS in there, I rechecked to make sure everything was tight up front and around the petcock.

[hoodadooda]

I'll send it back to you as soon as I can so you can fiddle with it.
Thanks Matt!

[ztrack157]

K I sent you money to ship it back

[ztrack157]

When you went for the control run how long was it? Just curious

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

K I sent you money to ship it back

send money to ship back? That's crazy service!!!

[ztrack157]

In situations like this I will gladly eat the $7 shipping to find out what the hell is going on.

[hoodadooda]

The control run was about 25~30 minutes total, but I figured the bike was already warmed up from all the on and off riding/ testing I did in my neighborhood. Also, I haven't taken my bike out on the road with the TIS yet, everything done with the TIS has been on the sidestand or my rear stand. I just don't know if it would be smart to take it out while it's doing all this backfiring and stuff.

[ztrack157]

I wouldn't if it were doing that. Eric any feed back?

[hoodadooda]

Put it in the mail today and it will be on it's way.

[dubojr1]

Matt, keep us updated please!