1996 ZX600C shock or 2010 300 shock

jgcable · April 28th, 2014, 11:08 AM

If you had the choice for your 2003 250r street bike?

My guess is the ZX600C shock is better because its air/oil but its 18 years old. The 300 shock just a baby at 4 years old and it came off of a bike with only 1200 miles on it.

I need to order one today. I weigh 190 and I only ride solo. All around street and back roads. I am installing Sonic 70 weight springs in the front forks.

alex.s · April 28th, 2014, 11:39 AM

if you buy a 20 year old shock, it's probably smart to change the fluid

InvisiBill · April 28th, 2014, 11:44 AM

The spring rates will have the largest effect on how well they work. Which one matches your weight better?

jgcable · April 28th, 2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

The spring rates will have the largest effect on how well they work. Which one matches your weight better?

The ZX600C would be better for my weight because its air/oil and is totally adjustable but my question is this.... if they were brand new each.. the ZX600C would be a no brainer. Its just a better all around shock but... the ZX600C is an 18 year old shock that will certainly need new oil. The 300 shock is only 4 years old and has 1200 original miles on it. Basically, what I am asking is what is better? I don't mind working on the ZX600C shock but why go through the work if the Ninja 300 shock is just as good.

ZX600C shock that is 18 years old coming from a bike with 42,000 miles on it

OR

Ninja 300 shock that is 4 years old coming from a bike with 1200 miles on it

The only downside I could see regarding the ZX600C shock is the bike would sit slightly lower in the rear. That would only effect it when I wasn't on it though.

alex.s · April 28th, 2014, 12:04 PM

spring rates are not adjustable without changing the spring.

jgcable · April 28th, 2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

spring rates are not adjustable without changing the spring.

Thanks for the info. The only thing I am looking for is to stiffen up the rear end. When my 190lb body sits on the bike it drops down easily 2 inches. Its spongy in the rear. The bike only has 4100 miles on it but I don't like the sponginess. I just want to firm up the rear suspension. I am going with sonic springs in the front. .75 weight. I was tossing between .70 and .80 and I figured I would split the difference.

This is why I am asking about the difference between the ZX600C and the ninja 300 shock. They cost the same and as long as the ninja 300 shock will firm up the rear end I have no problem going with it.

InvisiBill · April 28th, 2014, 06:28 PM

The softness in the rear is a direct result of the spring rate. If you don't know what spring rate your bike needs to match your weight, or what the spring rate of a specific shock's spring is, you can't make an informed decision on what will work best. One of the EX500 suspension gurus stated that the spring rate is probably 80% of how well the shock will work for you.

In the most simplified terms, the spring lets the suspension bounce X amount, and the shock controls that movement. If the spring is too heavy, the suspension won't absorb any of the jolts and the whole bike will skip over bumps. If the spring is too soft, the suspension will feel mushy and the shock will be working overtime trying to contain the wild swings. If you have the right spring, the suspension will move just the right amount to absorb bumps and still have the movement controlled properly by the shock.

It seems at least a few people have used the ZX600 shock on the PreGen (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Installing_a_ZX600_shock), so I assume it gives at least adequate results (I did see it mentioned that it was better for smaller riders). However, I haven't seen its spring rate actually posted anywhere, and I'm a bit wary of people's anecdotal evidence after seeing posts saying that the 47%-stiffer spring on the PreGen feels softer than an EX500 shock/spring. The ZX600 shock is also shorter, which will actually slow the handling of the bike (it'll feel less flickable).

The NewGen/300 shock should be pretty similar to the PreGen shock (since it's just a newer revision of the same bike). It should behave similarly to the way it was engineered, but has a stiffer spring to handle a heavier rider. Again, I don't know what the ideal spring rate is for your weight on a PreGen, but the NewGen spring is 18% stiffer than the PreGen, so it will definitely stiffen it up. It also has a preload adjuster, so you can actually set the sag on it and have the shock operating in the proper range of the spring. It's also a bit longer, so it'll lift the rear and make it handle a little quicker (others have mentioned this makes the bike feel much better, which matches up perfectly with EX500 advice/experience).

I'd personally feel safer going with a shock that's very similar to what the bike comes with, just with a stiffer spring (those are the reasons I'm currently using a NewGen shock on my 500). It should give you similar results, just with a bigger spring to handle a heavier rider. The ZX600 shock may have more features, but it's also a lot older and there doesn't seem to be much info on it to figure out if it actually is better than either of the other options. Additionally, the NewGen shock should improve the feel of the steering, while the ZX600 would take it in the opposite direction unless you got shorter dogbones too.

jenkem · April 28th, 2014, 09:30 PM

I'm casting my vote on the 300 shock. I have one in my pregen and the change was dramatic, I was smiling like a lunatic on the test ride around the block. The swap was ridiculously easy as well.

jgcable · April 29th, 2014, 07:47 AM

I ended up buying a 2013 Ninja 300 rear shock off of Ebay and I ordered a set of .70 weight front fork springs from Sonic Springs.

Using the calculators they have online I was able to determine that based on my weight and driving style this combo along with the new Kenda K671's should be perfect and will take all the sponginess out of my little green terror.

I can't wait to start riding this darn bike daily. I took my 2006 Harley Davidson Wideglide out last night and yea.. its fun.. but its not as fun as flogging the crap out of that little 250 motor! It does sound really good though.

jgcable · April 30th, 2014, 05:35 AM

[IMG]

[/IMG]

April 28th, 2014, 11:08 AM	#1
jgcable ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Milford, CT Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Ninja 250r Posts: 212	1996 ZX600C shock or 2010 300 shock If you had the choice for your 2003 250r street bike? My guess is the ZX600C shock is better because its air/oil but its 18 years old. The 300 shock just a baby at 4 years old and it came off of a bike with only 1200 miles on it. I need to order one today. I weigh 190 and I only ride solo. All around street and back roads. I am installing Sonic 70 weight springs in the front forks.

April 28th, 2014, 11:39 AM	#2
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	if you buy a 20 year old shock, it's probably smart to change the fluid __________________________________________________

April 28th, 2014, 12:04 PM	#5
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	spring rates are not adjustable without changing the spring. __________________________________________________

April 30th, 2014, 05:35 AM	#10
jgcable ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Milford, CT Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Ninja 250r Posts: 212	The suspension upgrade has begun [IMG][/IMG]

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April 28th, 2014, 11:44 AM	#3
InvisiBill EX500 full of EX250 parts Name: Bill Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Aug '15	The spring rates will have the largest effect on how well they work. Which one matches your weight better?

April 28th, 2014, 06:28 PM	#7
InvisiBill EX500 full of EX250 parts Name: Bill Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Aug '15	The softness in the rear is a direct result of the spring rate. If you don't know what spring rate your bike needs to match your weight, or what the spring rate of a specific shock's spring is, you can't make an informed decision on what will work best. One of the EX500 suspension gurus stated that the spring rate is probably 80% of how well the shock will work for you. In the most simplified terms, the spring lets the suspension bounce X amount, and the shock controls that movement. If the spring is too heavy, the suspension won't absorb any of the jolts and the whole bike will skip over bumps. If the spring is too soft, the suspension will feel mushy and the shock will be working overtime trying to contain the wild swings. If you have the right spring, the suspension will move just the right amount to absorb bumps and still have the movement controlled properly by the shock. It seems at least a few people have used the ZX600 shock on the PreGen (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Installing_a_ZX600_shock), so I assume it gives at least adequate results (I did see it mentioned that it was better for smaller riders). However, I haven't seen its spring rate actually posted anywhere, and I'm a bit wary of people's anecdotal evidence after seeing posts saying that the 47%-stiffer spring on the PreGen feels softer than an EX500 shock/spring. The ZX600 shock is also shorter, which will actually slow the handling of the bike (it'll feel less flickable). The NewGen/300 shock should be pretty similar to the PreGen shock (since it's just a newer revision of the same bike). It should behave similarly to the way it was engineered, but has a stiffer spring to handle a heavier rider. Again, I don't know what the ideal spring rate is for your weight on a PreGen, but the NewGen spring is 18% stiffer than the PreGen, so it will definitely stiffen it up. It also has a preload adjuster, so you can actually set the sag on it and have the shock operating in the proper range of the spring. It's also a bit longer, so it'll lift the rear and make it handle a little quicker (others have mentioned this makes the bike feel much better, which matches up perfectly with EX500 advice/experience). I'd personally feel safer going with a shock that's very similar to what the bike comes with, just with a stiffer spring (those are the reasons I'm currently using a NewGen shock on my 500). It should give you similar results, just with a bigger spring to handle a heavier rider. The ZX600 shock may have more features, but it's also a lot older and there doesn't seem to be much info on it to figure out if it actually is better than either of the other options. Additionally, the NewGen shock should improve the feel of the steering, while the ZX600 would take it in the opposite direction unless you got shorter dogbones too.

April 28th, 2014, 09:30 PM	#8
jenkem ninjette.org member Name: really Location: california Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2007 ninja 250 Posts: 80	I'm casting my vote on the 300 shock. I have one in my pregen and the change was dramatic, I was smiling like a lunatic on the test ride around the block. The swap was ridiculously easy as well.

April 29th, 2014, 07:47 AM	#9
jgcable ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Milford, CT Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Ninja 250r Posts: 212	I ended up buying a 2013 Ninja 300 rear shock off of Ebay and I ordered a set of .70 weight front fork springs from Sonic Springs. Using the calculators they have online I was able to determine that based on my weight and driving style this combo along with the new Kenda K671's should be perfect and will take all the sponginess out of my little green terror. I can't wait to start riding this darn bike daily. I took my 2006 Harley Davidson Wideglide out last night and yea.. its fun.. but its not as fun as flogging the crap out of that little 250 motor! It does sound really good though.