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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:29 AM   #1
ninjala
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Accident caused by unsafe lane change

I got accident last month when I rode my Ninja on 105 freeway. I was lane splitting between carpool lane and right 1st lane. The traffic was very slow for all lanes. My speed is about 35-40 mph. A shuttle van on the carpool lane suddenly changed lane, crossed the double solid lanes and caused me to fall immediately. My bike didn't hit the van. I suffered shoulder injury and was sent to emergency room. Fortunately no bone fracture. I was fully protected by the gears. The van driver denied that he changed lane. I am still waiting for police report.

I am not sure if I will ride motorcycle again. But if I do, I will definitely use a video camera during riding. In case I got accident again, I can get direct evidence.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:33 AM   #2
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I'm sorry you crashed, and I hope you heal well.

A camera is definitely a good idea, for precisely this reason. The van driver doesn't want to admit he changed lanes because it's a ticketable offense to cross the solid lines. And it's definitely something you want to watch for while lane-splitting because people change lanes like this all the time.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:53 AM   #3
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Sorry bout your crash, but.... a "shuttle van" should be full of witnesses.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 12:45 PM   #4
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This is L.A., people just don't want to get involved. Even if it's to help others.

Jim, sorry to hear about your wreck. Don't let other's stupidity ruin your life!!! I got hit while at university back in '88 and it did take while to recover mentally. In end, I got back on because I wasn't going to let idiots dictate my life!

Good idea on camera, I got Eken H9R about 2-yrs ago and couldn't be happier. Here's newer model: Amazon - Eken W9S. Best wishes on your recovery!
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 03:14 PM   #5
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So let me get this straight...
  • by your own admission, you were riding with a differential speed of around 40 mph between you and a lane of nearly stopped traffic that was <12' from you
  • you didn't physically touch the van
  • you crashed
  • you're blaming the van and attempting to put legal responsibility on the van driver for the damage you sustained

Am I getting this right?







Good luck.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 05:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
So let me get this straight...
  • by your own admission, you were riding with a differential speed of around 40 mph between you and a lane of nearly stopped traffic that was <12' from you
  • you didn't physically touch the van
  • you crashed
  • you're blaming the van and attempting to put legal responsibility on the van driver for the damage you sustained

Am I getting this right?







Good luck.

On 105 freeway, there are 4 solid yellow lane between carpool lane and right 1st lane. Most people do lane splitting with 40-50 mph speed with heavy traffic. I am relatively slower than most riders.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 07:00 PM   #7
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In retrospect, do you think you were going a safe speed?
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 08:06 PM   #8
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CHP guidelines are traffic-speed+15mph is more or less what you're supposed to do, so 40-50 could be within that. If people were changing lanes, it's not stopped. I split at relatively slow speeds, too, and have done it around 40mph.

And while you're legally not allowed to cross those double yellow lines, people do it all the time and it can be startling.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:16 PM   #9
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When ninjala said that traffic was very slow in both lanes and he was going 35-40, I assumed he meant there was a 30-35 mph difference in speed between him and the other traffic, but I'm not sure I understand it right.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:40 PM   #10
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I'm sorry you crashed, and I hope you heal well.

A camera is definitely a good idea, for precisely this reason. The van driver doesn't want to admit he changed lanes because it's a ticketable offense to cross the solid lines. And it's definitely something you want to watch for while lane-splitting because people change lanes like this all the time.
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Date:06/23/2018

Told ya so.

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Old June 23rd, 2018, 10:29 AM   #11
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Good idea on camera, I got Eken H9R about 2-yrs ago and couldn't be happier. Here's newer model: Amazon - Eken W9S. Best wishes on your recovery!
What mount are you using with that camera? Helmet or bike?

I really like the $40 price vs some of the name brand competition.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 06:11 PM   #12
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Glad you was not hurt to bad. How bad is the bike?

I do hope you don't give up riding because of this.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 08:57 PM   #13
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What mount are you using with that camera? Helmet or bike?

I really like the $40 price vs some of the name brand competition.
I attached one of these surface mounts to my helmet's chin bar and used quick release buckle to attach camera.




Kinda bulky and awkward looking, but it works. I'm going to get one of these angled buckles to place camera directly in front of chin. https://www.my-cheap.com/en/buckle-long-sticky.html . I also safety-wired camera case to one of helmet vents in case plastic mounts break in crash.

Even though I got H9R with remote, I prefer to use phone app to control it. This gives me preview of camera aim as well, so I can adjust angle. Here's one of my commute videos leaving S.F.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old June 23rd, 2018, 09:08 PM   #14
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In retrospect, do you think you were going a safe speed?
I would say I were riding at relatively safe speed.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 09:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
When ninjala said that traffic was very slow in both lanes and he was going 35-40, I assumed he meant there was a 30-35 mph difference in speed between him and the other traffic, but I'm not sure I understand it right.
on 105 freeway, with heavy traffic, most people ride at 40-50 mph between carpool lane and right 1st lane because there are 4 yellow solid lanes. Even when all car are stopped on both lanes, you can still ride at 30-40 mph.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 09:24 PM   #16
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I would say I were riding at relatively safe speed.
But you obviously were not, since you were not able to avoid the crash. If another driver dictates whether or not you crash, you are not in control of the situation. You must always be in control of what happens to you, or this will continue to happen, and the next one could be fatal.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 09:37 PM   #17
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I got accident last month when I rode my Ninja on 105 freeway. I was lane splitting between carpool lane and right 1st lane. The traffic was very slow for all lanes. My speed is about 35-40 mph. A shuttle van on the carpool lane suddenly changed lane, crossed the double solid lanes and caused me to fall immediately. My bike didn't hit the van. I suffered shoulder injury and was sent to emergency room. Fortunately no bone fracture. I was fully protected by the gears. The van driver denied that he changed lane. I am still waiting for police report.

I am not sure if I will ride motorcycle again. But if I do, I will definitely use a video camera during riding. In case I got accident again, I can get direct evidence.

The reason that the shuttle van driver wants to change lane is that there was firework truck stopped and blocked the carpool lane in front (maybe 100 feet away). The right first lane became wide open at the time when the van changed lane.

If I had moved to the right 1st lane earlier , I would have avoided the accident.
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Old June 23rd, 2018, 09:48 PM   #18
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But you obviously were not, since you were not able to avoid the crash. If another driver dictates whether or not you crash, you are not in control of the situation. You must always be in control of what happens to you, or this will continue to happen, and the next one could be fatal.
I am 54 years old and very conservative because I have a family. I haven't got any speed ticket in since I got my car drive license.

I used motorcycle for daily commute for last 10 years. After this accident I realize the risk is still high no matter how careful you ride the bike.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 10:21 AM   #19
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I am 54 years old and very conservative because I have a family. I haven't got any speed ticket in since I got my car drive license last year.

I used motorcycle for daily commute for last 10 years. After this accident I realize the risk is still high no matter how careful you ride the bike.
I'm glad you are very conservative however; everyone has a family (mother, father, grandparents, sometimes children). That shouldn't be a factor in risk.


I'm glad you haven't any tickets, although I have gotten a few tickets over the years (some kinda extreme), I haven't had any accidents, which I feel to be more important.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 10:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ninjala View Post
on 105 freeway, with heavy traffic, most people ride at 40-50 mph between carpool lane and right 1st lane because there are 4 yellow solid lanes. Even when all car are stopped on both lanes, you can still ride at 30-40 mph.
just because others are lemmings, you don't have to be one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjala View Post
The reason that the shuttle van driver wants to change lane is that there was firework truck stopped and blocked the carpool lane in front (maybe 100 feet away). The right first lane became wide open at the time when the van changed lane.

If I had moved to the right 1st lane earlier , I would have avoided the accident.
What physical action caused your crash?
What would have allowed you to move into clear 1st lane to avoid accident?

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 24th, 2018 at 03:41 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 02:22 PM   #21
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just because others are lemmings, you don't have to be one of them.

What physical action caused your crash? What would have allowed you to move into clear 1st lane to avoid accident?
The van is very close to me (I am at the blind spots of the van). When the van suddenly changed lane and crossed the yellow lane, it completely blocked my way, I immediately turned to the right lane to avoid hitting the van. Then I lost balance.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 02:44 PM   #22
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Glad you was not hurt to bad. How bad is the bike?

I do hope you don't give up riding because of this.

The bike is not too bad. I need to change the right lower flairing and right front turn signal.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 05:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjala View Post
The reason that the shuttle van driver wants to change lane is that there was firework truck stopped and blocked the carpool lane in front (maybe 100 feet away). The right first lane became wide open at the time when the van changed lane.

If I had moved to the right 1st lane earlier , I would have avoided the accident.
Quote:
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The van is very close to me (I am at the blind spots of the van). When the van suddenly changed lane and crossed the yellow lane, it completely blocked my way, I immediately turned to the right lane to avoid hitting the van. Then I lost balance.
Again... this accident was not caused by an unsafe lane change. It was caused by you not riding defensively and expecting that bad lane change.

All your posts in this thread point a very avoidable accident.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 06:33 PM   #24
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The bike is not too bad. I need to change the right lower flairing and right front turn signal.
That bodywork can be repaired. The muffler not so much. You could just paint the muffler semi-gloss black and the muffler probably stays cool enough to use JB Weld or body filler prior to painting.

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Old June 24th, 2018, 07:11 PM   #25
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Solder also works pretty well for filling scratched metal.
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Old June 24th, 2018, 08:02 PM   #26
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Leaded bodywork takes a fair amount of experience and the right alloy, flux, and tools. I doubt I'd recommend that to ninjala, but Ram Jet is probably right about Bondo. I used ordinary spray paint on my 250's mufflers, and there's no sign of heat damage after three years.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 02:27 AM   #27
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Leaded bodywork takes a fair amount of experience and the right alloy, flux, and tools. I doubt I'd recommend that to ninjala, but Ram Jet is probably right about Bondo. I used ordinary spray paint on my 250's mufflers, and there's no sign of heat damage after three years.
ABS fairing? Leaded body repair? Hmmmm.

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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:12 AM   #28
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ABS fairing? Leaded body repair? Hmmmm.
I'm pretty sure we're talking about repairing the muffler damage.
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Old June 26th, 2018, 02:17 PM   #29
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Just got back from Paris France. The traffic there is a free for all. Motorcycles and scooters split lanes, pass on right or the left. Sometimes the lane splits are followed by left and then the right passing all within seconds. You don't have a clue what lane splitting is until you visit Paris.
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Old June 26th, 2018, 02:33 PM   #30
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Just got back from Paris France. The traffic there is a free for all. Motorcycles and scooters split lanes, pass on right or the left. Sometimes the lane splits are followed by left and then the right passing all within seconds. You don't have a clue what lane splitting is until you visit Paris.
ahahhahah!!!!

Yeah, most places outside U.S. are like that. Remember, we are nanny-state with tonnes of rules for our own protection. Because we don't have background and skillz to handle traffic like that. It would be maiming and mayhem if we tried to have traffic actually be effiicent.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.


I like having traffic flow like water; if there's an opening, someone moves into it and frees up space behind them. Personally experienced it in Vietnam, France, Italy, England, Germany, Slovakia, Philippines, Thailand, Greece, Turkey, Mexico, Guatemala, Costa Rica, India, Canada, Russia, Spain, Australia... Why is it that only American's can't drive???

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Old June 27th, 2018, 12:06 AM   #31
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Kinda bulky and awkward looking, but it works. I'm going to get one of these angled buckles to place camera directly in front of chin. https://www.my-cheap.com/en/buckle-long-sticky.html . I also safety-wired camera case to one of helmet vents in case plastic mounts break in crash.

Even though I got H9R with remote, I prefer to use phone app to control it. This gives me preview of camera aim as well, so I can adjust angle. Here's one of my commute videos leaving S.F.
Just remember that helmets are designed to offer the least resistance on impact & a protrusion like your GoPro could induce a severe twist to your neck in a crash before it snaps off. That could be enough to severely damage if not break your neck, depends on the impact angle & speed. Just be aware. Ideally you want a break away mount, rather than relying on the mount snapping before it has induced a twist. Like wise the lock wire my make it return & smack you in the face hard should your visor be dislodged in an accident !

Mounting cameras to a helmet seems like a good idea, but it rarely is in an accident. You can get bike specific camera kits that come on with the bikes power & are effectively permanently mounted to the bike, so you don’t have to keep remembering to turn them on ! Just a suggestion.

YMMV
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Old June 27th, 2018, 12:29 AM   #32
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OP, just remember that if you choose to filter, then that is NOT normal behaviour for cage drivers. They are usually oblivious to bikes in general & especially when they are filtering. You need to tailor your speed to the traffic conditions & basically accept the fact that at some point you will have a near miss & if unlucky you may have an impact. Remember it’s you taking the risk.

IIRC California made filtering legal not very long ago, thus many drivers would not have been informed that this is happens. It’s been legal all my life in the UK & even today when following another bike by 100-200yds, drivers still manage to close the gap between lanes or drift to the white lines, slowing your progress.

Be careful out there, it’s your choice & your life and THEY don’t care. SMIDSY = Sorry Mate I Didn’t See YOU !!!!
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Old June 27th, 2018, 07:22 AM   #33
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IIRC California made filtering legal not very long ago, thus many drivers would not have been informed that this is happens. It’s been legal all my life in the UK & even today when following another bike by 100-200yds, drivers still manage to close the gap between lanes or drift to the white lines, slowing your progress.
There have been no legal changes to California filtering in decades. It's just never been explicitly illegal. The California Highway Patrol (state police) posted guidelines for filtering a few years ago, and it caused a stink because someone protested that they were implicitly making new laws by laying out the guidelines (for relative speed, etc.). CHP had to remove the guidelines.

There have been attempts to get the laws actually changed to make it clear what is acceptable and what isn't, but nothing has been passed. But more to the point, there's been no difference in behavior in filtering in the 20+ years I've been here. Cars still generally have no idea that it's "OK", and it's not a rare occurrence to see a motorcycle filtering in dangerous and questionable ways (even if most m/c commuters are prudent and attentive).
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Old June 27th, 2018, 08:49 AM   #34
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Yeah, filtering has always been legal due to some CVC saying something to effect of "more than one vehicle can share lane when there's sufficient space for both safely". I remember reading this when I first got licence +30yrs ago. Doesn't just apply to bikes, two cars can share lane if it's wide enough.


EDIT: Here's related section amended 2011

Quote:
CVC 21755. (a) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting that movement in safety. In no event shall that movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway.
(b) This section does not prohibit the use of a bicycle in a bicycle lane or on a shoulder.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 11:39 AM   #35
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Tough break man. When splitting you really need to pay attention.

Speed: Your speed differential to traffic needs to be appropriate for the situation you are in.

Location: Are you splitting on a highway or are you splitting in the city? In the city you have to worry about bikes and jaywalkers that you typically wouldn't encounter on a highway. On a highway, debris tends to collect in between lanes.

Stop and Go Traffic: When traffic is stopped you have to start worrying about people opening their doors. If traffic is moving really slowly it helps to pay attention to where drivers are looking. Do they look like they are trying to find a gap in traffic? Are they looking back over their shoulder? Are their wheels pointed into your lane? In slow moving and stop and go traffic people won't wait for a vehicle sized gap to move into instead moving to where a vehicle sized gap will appear.

Lanes of traffic moving at different speeds: If one lane is moving quicker than the other you're likely to have vehicles move from the fast lane to the slow one. Start paying attention to gaps in the traffic where vehicles might try to slot or dart in.

Vision: Along with the above you need to keep your vision up. That vehicle 10 cars ahead of you that keeps switching lanes is probably not going to stop anytime soon. You should give that vehicle a wide berth. Are one of the lanes closed? Is traffic being pushed into fewer lanes? You should probably start splitting in another lane.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 12:26 PM   #36
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Splitting is more or less a "go" now, where before it was not illegal and people did it. CHP is now allowed to issue guidelines on it, and everybody acts as though it's legal.

It's helped some. I have had more drivers move over for me than before the "should we legalize it" discussion.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 02:23 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Panda View Post
Tough break man. When splitting you really need to pay attention.

Speed: Your speed differential to traffic needs to be appropriate for the situation you are in.

Location: Are you splitting on a highway or are you splitting in the city? In the city you have to worry about bikes and jaywalkers that you typically wouldn't encounter on a highway. On a highway, debris tends to collect in between lanes.

Stop and Go Traffic: When traffic is stopped you have to start worrying about people opening their doors. If traffic is moving really slowly it helps to pay attention to where drivers are looking. Do they look like they are trying to find a gap in traffic? Are they looking back over their shoulder? Are their wheels pointed into your lane? In slow moving and stop and go traffic people won't wait for a vehicle sized gap to move into instead moving to where a vehicle sized gap will appear.

Lanes of traffic moving at different speeds: If one lane is moving quicker than the other you're likely to have vehicles move from the fast lane to the slow one. Start paying attention to gaps in the traffic where vehicles might try to slot or dart in.

Vision: Along with the above you need to keep your vision up. That vehicle 10 cars ahead of you that keeps switching lanes is probably not going to stop anytime soon. You should give that vehicle a wide berth. Are one of the lanes closed? Is traffic being pushed into fewer lanes? You should probably start splitting in another lane.
When I was about 14 years old my father always taught me to drive with my eyes 200 yards down the road. Not to focus on the 50 feet in front of you. Watch the average woman driver. Seat jacked forward so her belly is pressing against the steering wheel, her nose resting on the top of the steering wheel. She's looking at the 25 - 30 feet in front of her. Dumb! Push the seat back, semi-straight arm on the wheel, hands at the 10 and 2 position and look as far down the road as you can see. Assume the guy pulling out in front of you from a side road is going to cut you off. Assume the guy at the intersection is going to turn left in front of you. Assume the guy pulling out in traffic is going to try to jump in to space between you and the car you are following at a safe distance (even though there is a 20 car length space behind you). NEVER assume you're OK because you have the right of way.

If you do all that stuff you might make it to 70 like me.

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Old June 27th, 2018, 02:48 PM   #38
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Watch the average woman driver. Seat jacked forward so her belly is pressing against the steering wheel, her nose resting on the top of the steering wheel. She's looking at the 25 - 30 feet in front of her. Dumb! l
Unnecessary much?

Check yourself.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 03:23 PM   #39
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It's true I sit much further forward than my husband does. Of course, he's ... 8 or 9 inches taller than I am and can reach the pedals where I could not with the seat back.

And I will agree that the average driver (men do it, too, sorry to tell you) looks at the bumper of the car in front of them. We should all look much further ahead.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 06:50 PM   #40
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Unnecessary much?

Check yourself.
Check this millennial.

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