TQ's Ninja

[nope]

Just wanted to throw up a quick thread. I've been meaning to do some cool in-depth post where I take fancy pictures of everything and talk about all the things I'm doing with my bike and why. That's hasn't happened, so:

The main idea behind my ninja was to get something CHEAP to finally learn what the track is all about. I got it for $2k, and it sucked. Ignoring power differences and things like that, the ninja just felt super goofy compared to my Honda and I had zero confidence in it. So I got some inspiration (and resistance, I suppose) from some friends and started making it my own. I felt that the lighter I made it, the more confidence I had while throwing it around, so that became a huge driver, possibly the biggest. I hated the posture, hence the front end swap. Since then I've discovered how this bike can be awesome. Since there will never be any real power under there, making the bike brake and lean like no other is where it's at. And the front swap does that for many reasons. Other things I'm doing to the bike are just to make things simpler and cleaner, with a dash of unique.

To recap: Cheap, light, quick, simple.

Anyway, the post I had in mind is a lot of work so here are a couple photos from my phone from last night. As you can tell, there's a lot to be done but I feel what I have is solid and clean.







To date I've done about 5 track days total, visiting SoCal tracks like Streets of Willow, Buttonwillow, and recently Chucwalla Valley Raceway. In this time I've been able to run in the advanced run group without being a nuisance. Granted, track days aren't full of racers, but it's exciting nonetheless for someone with my lack of experience on a funny but trusty little bike.

[Rexbo]

heck yeah now chop that tail

[ChaosFromAbove]

wow...amazing...are the stock fairings going to fit back on? (mostly interested in the upper since you've got a new front end). I'm guessing the answer is no.

[nope]

Nah, definitely not, and I don't want em back on.

I'm going to work on a custom tail (and subframe) and belly pan when I free up some time though. Can't wait! Mayyybe, a little front fairing but at this point I want as little "stuff" on the bike as I can deem reasonable.

Glad you dig it.

[ChaosFromAbove]

yea...its basically a street fighter now lol. I'm really tempted to try the front end swap and try to modify the fairings...but i know I'm just gonna end up getting pissed when i can't get them to fit and start breaking sh!t lol.

Wish it was more practical for us "street" riders. Guess i'll pass on putting the gsxr rear suspension on as well

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by ChaosFromAbove

Guess i'll pass on putting the gsxr rear suspension on as well

do it. it doesnt involve THAT much work, and its a huge improvement over stock. not to mention its like a $50 MAX modification if you find the right parts for cheap.

[ChaosFromAbove]

ahhhhh get out of my head!!!! lol

[nope]

Yeah, $50 if you're careless. There are shocks all over eBay. And worst case scenario, you fail completely. You go buy a new triangle linkage thingy and chuck the gsxr shock.

Some notes on my bike:


1. While we're on the subject, the rear shock seems good. I don't notice it much, but the rebound damping is nice and I don't seem to be grinding my custom exhaust any more. My buddy Steve (rexbo, here) made a good point, which was that if I'm not noticing the shock then it's likely it's doing its job properly. I definitely noticed the stock shock, and it was definitely too squishy in banked turns and more hoppy over bumps.



2. The custom exhaust improves cornering clearance. I was tracking at Streets of Willow and I had no confidence in the bowl because the stock exhaust was just getting murdered and sometimes punting the rear of my bike out. I had the stock shock fully preloaded. When I got home I cut the stock exhaust can in half just to play with a stubby exhaust idea, but that didn't really address the dragging, looked cool though. I went one step further and cut the exhaust pipes at the union and welded in an adapter to a universal glasspack from Summit Racing. This really tucked the exhaust away and if it ever dragged it would be parallel to the ground, not catching an edge. It was crazy loud at first so I also had to make a silencer out of some perf tube, which is difficult to weld. It's still really loud and snotty sounding but it's tolerable and I like it. As you can see in the photos above I was still dragging it a bit with the stock shock. I weigh 160-165lbs and my bike is significantly lighter than stock, especially in the rear.



3. K&N air filter and jet kit are awesome. And so is removing the airbox along with its little emissions/recirculation minions. There are probably several threads going on how to do this but essentially you just pull everything out, cap the port at the top of the engine, put a universal breather/filter at the crank case port and create a way to vent your fuel tank at the three fittings on the side. After doing so, I'm noticing just a tad more power than friends' ninjas and having no airbox makes it so much easier to get in there to do any kind of work. My jetting is currently "untuned" as I just kinda guessed based on my intake/exhaust changes, erring on the rich side. The bike runs great and I've also been able to eliminate the choke completely.



4. Rearsets are a must. I went with the Shinto ones and modified the shifter side so that the shifter lever pivot was concentric with the foot peg. This was very important to me as I found the standard pivot location cumbersome when trying to shift on the track. To do this I needed a longer linkage rod and I needed to modify the splined clamp (cut & weld) so things would line up. Fits tight, but the perfect kind of tight.



5. Rear tire. Right now I have a BT-016 on there and it might have 1 more day left in it. I have a 140 width BT-003RS waiting patiently in line. I think the 003 will be much better as it doesn't have treads at the extremities of the tire profile. The 016's have developed huge divots in front of each tread, and although I don't notice a loss of traction in turns, the contact circle is pretty discontinuous. I took some advice on this forum to try the 150 width on the 016 which has served me well. There is definitely a bit of tire you can never lean over to use though.



6. Front tire. With the front end swap you get a 3.5" wide wheel which lets you use the common 120 width front tire. The wheel I purchased used, came with a lightly used Michelin Pilot slick. This tire is excellent and I have learned the front tire is really what does ALL the work on a ninja. This past trip to Chuckwalla taught me that you need to get lots of heat into a slick before it starts working. My first session felt terrible, front end chattering and hopping in what felt like every turn. I was about to swap to my Dunlop D211 GPA which I brought just in case. But as the track warmed up a bit, I realized heat was the issue so I was encouraged to just go crazier and brake excessively hard early on and that seemed to get the tire hot enough to really stick. The cycle sort of built on itself afterward, when the tire was sticking I could go faster, which made the tire hotter and stickier, and I could go faster, and so on.. eventually I traveled in time I was going so fast, approx 88 mph. No really, the ability to fit a real race tire is AMAZING.



More later, it's beer week in SD!

[08ninja250]

why did you drill out the rear rotor?

[nope]

Haven't quite finished that one yet!

I designed that rotor and had it waterjet cut for my bike and a friend's ($40 each), stainless, super light. I'm working on a lighter weight rear brake caliper to match. But I'll post pics of that once I get it all made.

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by Rexbo

do it. it doesnt involve THAT much work, and its a huge improvement over stock. not to mention its like a $50 MAX modification if you find the right parts for cheap.

I grabbed a gsxr
Stock shock from eBay for cheap. As for the lower shock cutting, I just need to cut that inner tube like spacer?

[nope]

Wait till your shock comes in. You'll want to mill (or grind) part of the triangular shock linkage so that it fits snugly inside the aluminum clevis on the lower end of the shock. One side sticks out more than the other so grind away at that side, and also grind that steel bushing/spacer to fit the same way (I think I remember it being roughly 0.055"). Remove the o-rings on the linkage and keep them aside while you do the grinding.

Rexbo has some great pics on his write-up from when we did our installs at my place.

[randomwalk101]

Thanks for the pics. Looks awesome.
Great idea on the Shinto rearset. I think I might try that one out too. I have Shinto as well.

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Thanks for the pics. Looks awesome.
Great idea on the Shinto rearset. I think I might try that one out too. I have Shinto as well.

coulda just bought the x-race rearsets from matt (sportisi) and they're concentric shifting from the get go!

[nope]

I thought about it, but I don't like that they're 2 plates thick. That pushes the pegs and controls out an unnecessary amount. The concentricity was something I could fix.
Also, I paid $200 shipped.

However, after seeing what happened to Brian's rearset pickup points at the frame when he went down in the bowl, I want to replace my foot pegs with the undercut type so the foot peg dies without mangling the frame or the rearsets (even though I'm never going down). Not sure if I like the folding type for the track.

[ztrack157]

Originally Posted by nope

I thought about it, but I don't like that they're 2 plates thick. That pushes the pegs and controls out an unnecessary amount. The concentricity was something I could fix.
Also, I paid $200 shipped.

Most do a racer chop on the end of the peg which wipes out the extra amount it is sticking out. I've only even seen one racer good enough to drag my pegs (non chopped) and that only happened when he was lowsiding in T6 at Thunderhill while running 2:11 pace.

[Nemesis]

Nope, do you race WSMC? If not you should. But you may have to convert back most of the stuff mod you already have done. LOL! Come out and join us. I'll be racing with CVMA (Chuckwalla) next year too.

[nope]

At this point I'm just tracking and although I'm feelin pretty comfortable on the track, I really just barely got into this.

I might try running in the AFM 250 superbike class next year. I need to figure out what kind of bikes I'd be up against though. I don't mind taking a beating, but if it's just gonna be a bunch of 400-450 supermotos (single and twin 4-strokes get to run down a class) it might take all the fun out of investing that much money. :P

I'm always down to track though, and I've been dyin to ride with some experienced ninja riders. I seriously love my setup and definitely don't wanna undo the changes I've made. If you want some ninja track company let me know, we usually roll 3 or 4 ninjas deep!

[Nemesis]

You're in SD, right? If so, you're going to drive all the way up there to compete when you can compete with race orgs that are closer?

Dood, we should do Chuckwalla. I can get Joseph (Kurosaki) to join in with us. And I know a bunch of other 250 Socal riders who would be down for it too.

[nope]

Yeah, I'm in SD. Still deciding about racing, but definitely down to go track with you guys meanwhile.

I wish there was a race series that did streets of willow, chuckwalla and buttonwillow - for small engine 4-strokes, without mod limits. :/ I realize they make rules like that to keep wealthier teams/riders from having the "fancier mods" advantage, but honestly as long as I'm not trying to race seasoned 120lb riders on bikes making over twice the power and weighing 100lbs less than mine, I'm happy and up for the challenge.

[Nemesis]

I hated Big Willow before I got into racing. Ran that track once back in '05 and it was really scary and intimidating.

But ever since I got into racing, racing the 250 @ Big Willow taught me a lot about cornering/speed/body position. I prefer that track over Streets.

I hear you about BW, SOW, and Chucky tho. LOL!

Riding/racing season is over for me this year. So, let's do a Ninja250 trackday next year--some time in March. I'll see if I can get us a discount $100 or less trackday next year.

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I hated Big Willow before I got into racing. Ran that track once back in '05 and it was really scary and intimidating.

But ever since I got into racing, racing the 250 @ Big Willow taught me a lot about cornering/speed/body position. I prefer that track over Streets.

I hear you about BW, SOW, and Chucky tho. LOL!

Riding/racing season is over for me this year. So, let's do a Ninja250 trackday next year--some time in March. I'll see if I can get us a discount $100 or less trackday next year.

Hmm... this almost sounds like we've got enough people to race for beer

[ithaca00]

Originally Posted by nope

I might try running in the AFM 250 superbike class next year. I need to figure out what kind of bikes I'd be up against though. I don't mind taking a beating, but if it's just gonna be a bunch of 400-450 supermotos (single and twin 4-strokes get to run down a class) it might take all the fun out of investing that much money. :P

AFM Superbike had 2 450s and they still lost (over the season) to the top Production guy. At the last race there was a Frankenstien CRF250 powered TZ125 bike that did a number on the class. For the most part though it's a second 250P race as that's what most people run.

[blong]

nope's bike is dope

he is super fast on the track

front end swap is the ticket

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by blong

he is super fast on the track

Really?

What times is he doing @ BW, SOW, Big Willow, Chuckwalla?

[nope]

I'd say im aite, but I def need to learn a bunch.

In fact, blong is way faster and more capable of pulling stuff off than me for sure - till he crashed .. :P I think I counted like 12 passes in one hot Advanced group lap at Streets his first time riding the 250 at the track.

Also, rexbo is f'in quick even on his damn stock tires - till he crashed, haha. But yeah, ultra clean and gonna be a deadly beginner in AFM 250P.

Time off an on-board cam was in the 1:31s at Streets of Willow for me.

[blong]

What's a good ninja time at buttomwillow?

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by nope

I'd say im aite, but I def need to learn a bunch.

In fact, blong is way faster and more capable of pulling stuff off than me for sure - till he crashed .. :P I think I counted like 12 passes in one hot Advanced group lap at Streets his first time riding the 250 at the track.

Also, rexbo is f'in quick even on his damn stock tires - till he crashed, haha. But yeah, ultra clean and gonna be a deadly beginner in AFM 250P.

Time off an on-board cam was in the 1:31s at Streets of Willow for me.

12 passes in A group? Either A Group riders were more like C group riders or he passed on a red flag.

But a 1:31 is definitely fast but not a true A Group pace which is why WSMC breaks down the practice group times by your practice times. And 1:31 is 2nd to slowest group. But in the 250 class that's definitely in the top 4 or 5 racers provided you're running the same spec rules as everyone else.

Originally Posted by blong

What's a good ninja time at buttomwillow?

I believe it's in the 2:08-2:10 are considered fast. I'm a measely 2:17 so I got ways to go.

Sounds like I will learn a lot from riding with you guys.

[blong]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I believe it's in the 2:08-2:10 are considered fast. I'm a measely 2:17 so I got ways to go.

Sounds like I will learn a lot from riding with you guys.

Coo, I was doing 2:09-2:10 with a garbage rear tire. Well, actually a garbage front tire I was using in the back.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by blong

Coo, I was doing 2:09-2:10 with a garbage rear tire. Well, actually a garbage front tire I was using in the back.

Damn, you're fast. LOL!!!

[Cab305]

Dude I love what you have done soooo much, I just picked up a GSXR rear shock, will be machining it this weekend!
Have to get new rear sets also, thrashed the OEM left side at Homestead Track Day.

This might seem silly, how did you support your bike while swapping rear shock, did you use a motorcycle lift? I have been thinking about it all day, "how am I gonna do it?"

[nope]

Awesome man, glad you're going for it. Crap, you might need rearsets..

I don't have a rear stand yet so I normally lift my bike up by hand and rest the spools on 2 car jack stands (on a couple towels because I'm particular about that sort of thing). So what we did to support the bike while changing the shock was rest in on the pegs in the same fashion. Now, I say you'll want those rearsets because the stock ones fold up..

You can always do it ghetto and pull off the tail fairings, wrap a tie down through the subframe and over a rafter above, and crank it up. Careful the bike doesn't flop over though!

[Cab305]

LOL, I thought of the ghetto solution also. Did you remove rear tire for ease, or is it not necessary once undertail plastic comes off. I'll post some pics next week.

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by Cab305

LOL, I thought of the ghetto solution also. Did you remove rear tire for ease, or is it not necessary once undertail plastic comes off. I'll post some pics next week.

check out my thread on here, there's a pretty good pic of how you can do it just using jackstands.

I dont have any times for any tracks yet with the new tires or rear shock, but tq and blong are way faster than me... until i sort my front forks and an exhaust! I think TQ and I did a 2:21 at buttonwillow counter-clockwise, but that was still with my ****** tires on stock suspension and TQ's first time there.

[nope]

Future plans for the ninja:

1. 420 chain setup
2. Lightweight rear brake setup
3. Steering damper
4. Chop and convert to lightweight bolt-on subframe
5. Modified wiring harness with mini battery
6. Custom tail fairing
7. Custom belly pan
8. Safety wire
9. Exhaust v.2

Probably more stuff.

[randomwalk101]

TQ

You have to drill out the top and bottom of the gsxr shock's mounting holes to accept the. 12mm bolt? The holes of the ninja are bigger.
Also how long are the new 12mm bolts needed to be? Thanks

[nope]

Yeah you gotta drill out top and bottom of the shock with a 12mm brill bit. The bolt lengths I used were 130mm (x2) and 60mm (x1).

Steve, maybe update your write-up with these bolt lengths.

[randomwalk101]

Thx TQ. Will enlarge it with a drill bit. Picked up four spacers like you used. Wow they are expensive. I believe it's like $5 a piece at Lowe's. Also couldn't find any 12mm so I picked up the 7/16" bolts.

[randomwalk101]

Found some 12mm x 130mm bolts at ace hardware.
How long is the lower shock mounting bolt needs to be? I think that needs a little longer bolt as well. Thanks

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by nope

The bolt lengths I used were 130mm (x2) and 60mm (x1).