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Old December 28th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #1
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Talking Building into a track bike.

Hey, everyone! For the last couple months, I've been completely cleaning, rebuilding, and improving and modifying my 2008 Ninja 250 to get it into top shape for the track.

I'll go over everything that's been done, and what I plan to do. Just wanted a few opinions and suggestions from some who regularly ride at the track or race (since that's where I'm aiming).

First off, bought it in pretty sad shape. Barely rideable as the chain may never have been replaced, and the sprockets definitely hadn't. There was more as I tore it down to the frame that truly scared me as the previous owner had used it for daily commuting. The brake pads on the front were almost down to just the plates, but the back had not only been completely depleted but the plate was also worn into between the rotor and the pistons. As such, the rear rotor had ruts worn into it and was heavily worn past the service limit. The carburetor was extremely dirty and as such it ran very rough. With over 16,000 miles on it, it probably hadn't seen a lick of maintenance in its life sadly. Needless to say, I picked it up quite cheap.

That being said, I set to work, tore it down to the frame, cleaned, repaired, replaced, and rebuilt quite a bit of it. Now it's in great shape and running very well, and I've improved the performance quite a bit as well. This is where you come in, as I'd like to move forward with improving it. I've done some research, but I'd like to get some suggestions as well to consider.

What's been done :
New OEM front and rear sprocket
New RK 520 Chain
New front and rear aftermarket rotors
New front and rear EBC sintered brake pads
Coolant flushed and replaced with Engine Ice
Oil flushed and replaced with Castrol Racing 4T Full Synthetic
New K&N Oil Filter
Brake fluid flushed and replaced
Carburetors cleaned and rebuilt
Re-jetted with new OEM equivalent 38 slow jets
Re-jetted with new OEM equivalent 112 main jets
Tuned for new jetting and air intake
Air box delete, replaced with Highflow Air Pods
Replaced stock handlebars with clip-ons and 1-inch front lowering
Rear suspension set to max preload height
Frame Sliders and Swingarm Sliders
All bearings cleaned and regreased
Entire bike degreased and cleaned


What's yet to be done :
New tires, most likely to be:

Front: Bridgestone BT-090 Battlax High-Performance Front Tire - 110/70R-17
Rear: Bridgestone BT-090 Battlax High-Performance Rear Tire - 140/70R-17
Aftermarket foldable levers
Mirror removal and installation of bar mount single mirror
Weight reduction, including removing passenger pegs, lighter exhaust, and any other unnecessary parts that I can find.
Possible changing of stock gearing, however, I like the middle ground between higher top speed and higher torque.


Things that aren't happening yet :
Track bodywork (Unfortunetely, can't afford it at this time)
This is something that I really wanted to do, as it'd save weight by removing the light, and a few other things. It'd also be nice to save the stock plastics.
Engine cover protectors (again, can't afford at this time)
Lighter aftermarket wheels


Keeping in mind this bike is mostly being setup for the track, but still keeping it in condition for the street as well, here are some of the things I'm unsure about.

What I'm mostly undecided over though is the exhaust. I don't have a high budget for this bike at the moment, and it's not going to change soon. As such, after looking at the exhausts available and what I'm going for at the moment, The most I'd want to do is this exaust here on Amazon for about $150. However, the other option I've been considering is just dropping the stock exhaust for weight reduction, and just getting this exhaust for mostly aesthetics and only spending $50. Since that'd basically be going straight piped, it worries me a bit, for both performance and loudness reasons. My question is, is the $150 exhaust worth the extra $100, is it going to be that much better at this time? I know it's still very cheap, but I'm not at a point to spend $300-$600 on a two brothers or yoshi right now, and still be able to do track days.

As for other things I'm not sure about yet, since I'll be on about three different tracks ranging from little to no straights, to mostly straights I'm liking the stock gearing since it's seems to be a good compromise between acceleration and top speed. Any suggestions that you've found work for both, are apreciated. I have considered getting a second rear sprocket to swith between depending on the track, but again, I'm trying to save money while making the best performance that I can (yes, I know performance costs lol, but bear with me).

Last but not least, I researched tires pretty extensively, and I came up with the Bridgstone Battleaxe BT-090 as a good road/track tire. Staying stock size on the front, but I think I'm going to go with the slightly wider 140/70R 17 rear. I'm usually a pretty hardcore Michelin man, but I couldn't find a good road/track tire in the 250 size. I normally ride a 2006 Ninja 636 on the track, and a 2006 Ninja 650 on the street, and I run Michelin Pilot Power 2CT's on both and have been extremely happy with them. What do you run that you've had good experience with?

I know that this is an extensive post, if you've stuck through this I highly appreciate that, as I've been wanting to get some advice, but don't many 250 people on the track.

Thanks again, looking forward to your suggestions!
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Old December 29th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #2
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stick with what you have and save the money on the exhaust. save up to buy a full exhaust.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 08:09 AM   #3
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Check your local club rules regarding airbox removal. Wera requires box and snorkel for example.

Fork springs? How much do u weigh?

With the front lowered and the back as high as it will go, its likely to fall into turns and require you to push on the outside bar in turns.

What Chris said about slip on.

Cant comment on those tires but I havent heard of the racers using those. Pirellis and Alpha 13s seem to be popular. Ive got S20 Evo's and they are fine for beg/int trackday pace but the racers say they arent too good at full speed. My next set will prob be A13s as I try to up my slowish pace.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 09:05 AM   #4
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If youre stuck on getting a slipon only, dont go with either of those generic products. Reputable exhaust manufacturers make slipons for about the same price as the $150 option.

With the Tyga you could buy the slipon kit now, then buy the header and mid pipes that will work with the same muffler in the slipon kit as budget allows.

http://tyga-performance.com/site/pro...oducts_id=2734
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Old December 29th, 2016, 09:42 AM   #5
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Here you go;

The list if you're serious about riding track, yet want to keep a street option available by swapping some parts and putting the lights back on.

Main things that you want to start with...
Tires
Suspension
Exhaust

Tires - I also have no experience riding on those tires but many new tires have come to market as of late. When I race, I normally run the pirellis in a 90f and 140r. I also run those same sizes on the street. ps... I am also a fat man fan when it comes to tires.

Suspension - This will be where you see the biggest gains in lap times and street options. Although, suspensions are normally set up to be harder on track bikes which would lead to some major bumpy rides on the street if your track pace is up there. Work on the front springs first, then get the rear sorted. A cheap mod for the rear is a gsxr shock but take a big face and get some springs in the front ASAP!

Exhausts - 2 things here, first is getting it up out of the way for additional ground clearance. Helpful on the street, a requirement on the track! Next is the additional power you get with a good tune to match. No matter what you get, check the race org rules and ensure you're good to go. You have options here, buy it all together or a piece at a time as suggested. Have you considered the used market? Many riders are unloading their 250 setup for 300cc+ class bikes.

Once you get past those main things, you want to start on ergos, clipons, rearsets, seat shaving and such. Also, take your time here and get everything as perfect as possible as this is where YOU come in contact with the bike. The more you make it better, the more enjoyable and less effort it takes to control the bike out on the track. There is give and take here though... the better on track, the worse on the street though. ymmv :\

Couple of other things
Unneeded hard bits
Safety wiring

Safety wiring - if it's off the bike and needs a hole in it, DO IT then. Check your race orgs rules here to see what you must safety wire and what is not required.

Unneeded hard bits- GET RID OF THEM! Get a set of used track fairings ASAP! Especially if your budget is tight. Here is the basic rule. "You don't have to replace it if it is never broken." I see soooo many riders at the track take the time to tape off mirrors. Thing is, in just a bit more time... they could take them off and not have to worry about damaging them. Same thing with passenger pegs, turn signals, ect... ect... Everyone knows, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ya know.

Brakes - EBC HH sintered pads will be great until you're within a second of lap record paces. Cheap, easy no brainer

Sidestand - TAKE IT OFF!!!! And cut the mount tab off too. I know this sucks for the street, but it will put you on your arse on the track when it drags and lifts the rear wheel.

Good luck and make sure you have fun at the track! Looking forward to your progress pics of the bike and the track skills too.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 10:34 AM   #6
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Old December 29th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #7
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:35 PM   #8
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ck.mecha have you run a Tyga exhaust? Definitely looks better than what I could find.

For everyone who mentioned springs and suspension, my bad I forgot to mention my weight lol. I'm only about 140-150 lbs, 5'4". I definitely need better suspension, good point guys!

csmith12, awesome response man. I've did track days last this last year on my Ninja 636, and just took off mirrors and passenger pegs etc. You brought up some great points though, and I like what said to focus on. Do you know what the Pirelli's are called that you run? I'll look into what I can find used as far as exhaust and plastics as well. Having a hard time finding anything on plastics though, if you have any idea where to look that'd be great. As for the race/track rules They don't require safety wire for track days, just racing where I'm at with any of the groups. That's not to say I won't be doing it, as an aircraft mechanic I'm used to having to safety wire the **** out of everything lol.

Dave Wolfe they're pretty open about mods with the groups doing track days in my region thankfully, a little more stringent on racing, but not by too much more honestly. We're pretty laid back over here.

Anyway, keep up the suggestions! Thank a lot guys, I'll be posting pictures soon too. When track days start I'll post pics and video.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:43 PM   #9
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The pirelli's are supercoursa's sc1 or sc2 great tires like they mentioned and easier to get than the alpha 13's, I have both brands and I'm not sure which one is better.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:49 PM   #10
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taz I couldn't find the super corsa's in 250 sizes. you wouldn't happen to have a link? I was going to try the rosso IIIs on my 636 this year, awesome looking tires.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #11
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https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/...sc#/size-range AND ANY GOOD TIRE DISTRIBUTOR CAN GET THE SIZE YOUR LOOKING FOR.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:04 PM   #12
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thanks taz! I'll probably just give them a call then. They have the 140 rear that csmith12 was talking about, but I don't see the 90 front in the lineup. they only seem to have the 110/70 and 120/70.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:07 PM   #13
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Yea just run the 110 its factory size
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:09 PM   #14
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gotcha taz
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #15
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90's are a special order from dealer, 100's are far more available. Nothing wrong with a sc1 front though. As far as where to get cheap plastics, wera classifieds maybe? They popup on ebay from time to time and I have a google alert setup up for a couple of items on craigslist. Maybe you could do the same.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 02:16 PM   #16
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That makes sense. The cheapest race bodywork I could find was an off brand set for $450 shipped, not sure on the fitment though. The next was a second hand dealer selling a new complete set of hotbodies race bodywork for $483 shipped. I know that's pretty damn good for plastics, especially new and not from china, but it's a still out of my price range right now. I've got a few months though before track days start again here.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 03:59 PM   #17
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ck.mecha have you run a Tyga exhaust? Definitely looks better than what I could find.
Yes, I have the full system. I have not dyno'd the bike, but it weighs a ton less than stock, the welds are all nice, and the fit/finish is pretty decent. The only negative i can say is one of the springs wasnt as tight as I would like and there isnt as many folks out there to compare jetting with.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 04:03 PM   #18
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What sort of jetting are you running with it? I'm running 112 main and 38 slow with highflow airpods.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 04:08 PM   #19
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also csmith12, what springs do you think would work best with my weight (140-150lbs about 64-69kg)? I was looking at options on Amazon and it ranges from .70kg/mm to .90kg/mm.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 04:19 PM   #20
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You are light enough that the stock fork springs may not be too far off. Me at 230 lbs is another story.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 04:42 PM   #21
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also csmith12, what springs do you think would work best with my weight (140-150lbs about 64-69kg)? I was looking at options on Amazon and it ranges from .70kg/mm to .90kg/mm.
Impossible to answer, for example... is that your fully geared weight, just street clothes or nekkid? lol

Also, your braking skills may push you into harder springs than what any calculator will give you. For example a few of us had to buy stiffer springs than our weight recommends based solely on braking needs.

Make sure you give this thread a read. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...200#post695200 It should help you there.

All in all, suspension is THE best thing you can do to your bike street or track to improve control and stability.

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Great riders can do amazing things on crappy tires, but sloppy suspension feels like crap to every rider. - csmith12
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:23 PM   #22
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csmith12, I've heard that so many times from experienced track and race riders, yet I keep forgetting that. I'll take some measurements and do some calculating. Great read too, this thread has seriously been a huge help. Thanks again everyone! I'll post more as it comes along.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:50 AM   #23
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taz I couldn't find the super corsa's in 250 sizes. you wouldn't happen to have a link? I was going to try the rosso IIIs on my 636 this year, awesome looking tires.
I have more Alpha13 take offs than anyone could use in 2 seasons. They have 1 practice session and one race on each set. $80 a set plus shipping if anyone is interested, I also have a set or maybe 2 of rains, again barely used, maybe one race.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 12:52 PM   #24
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Pics bruce? That might be just what I'm looking for, especially with a set of rains.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 03:13 PM   #25
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Pics bruce? That might be just what I'm looking for, especially with a set of rains.
This is a small sample of what I have, I think there is 6 more complete sets at my house.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
The rains are $125 a set, I'll make a deal if you want more than 1 set. 2 sets will easily get you through the season. Also you'll be the coolest guy on the grid with Motoamerica tire tech stickers on your tires!
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Old January 8th, 2017, 02:40 AM   #26
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This is a small sample of what I have, I think there is 6 more complete sets at my house.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
The rains are $125 a set, I'll make a deal if you want more than 1 set. 2 sets will easily get you through the season. Also you'll be the coolest guy on the grid with Motoamerica tire tech stickers on your tires!
I definitely want a set of rains! Comes in really handy in the PNW.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #27
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Not sure if mentioned yet.
A problem with the simplicjty of the original suspension is being too stiff for little bumps and ripples.

Emulators improve that and helps keeping the front tire on the pavement for those conditions:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Are_Val..._worthwhile%3F
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Old January 8th, 2017, 08:24 AM   #28
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The b-stone bt-090s are great for racing,especially for small bikes. Thats what we use on our 400's
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Old January 8th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #29
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The b-stone bt-090s are great for racing,especially for small bikes. Thats what we use on our 400's
Awesome! Glad someone has experience with them. Found an article that had talked about them, and found them at a decent price on Amazon. I run 80 Street / 20 Track type tires on my other bikes I take on track (Michelin PP2CTs) and have always liked it, wanted something of that quality for my 250 as well, but had a hard time finding anything between street and straight track.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Not sure if mentioned yet.
A problem with the simplicjty of the original suspension is being too stiff for little bumps and ripples.

Emulators improve that and helps keeping the front tire on the pavement for those conditions:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Are_Val..._worthwhile%3F
Yeah I was going to get some emulators at least for the suspension, I need to do a bit of research, consulting, and calculation still to see if different springs are needed as well for my weight.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #31
britx303
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Originally Posted by NinjaBraap View Post
Awesome! Glad someone has experience with them. Found an article that had talked about them, and found them at a decent price on Amazon. I run 80 Street / 20 Track type tires on my other bikes I take on track (Michelin PP2CTs) and have always liked it, wanted something of that quality for my 250 as well, but had a hard time finding anything between street and straight track.
I have 2ct's mounted on a spare set of rims in the event of a wet race. Although not as good as rain race tires,they get the job done.My first 1st place trophy was on them when everyone else thought the rain was going to go away,and they stayed on slicks.It only got worse,and I was able to stay on track and take it home.I also did my race school on the 2ct's. They will hold you back once the pace picks up though.Best of luck with everything
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Old January 9th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by britx303 View Post
I have 2ct's mounted on a spare set of rims in the event of a wet race. Although not as good as rain race tires,they get the job done.My first 1st place trophy was on them when everyone else thought the rain was going to go away,and they stayed on slicks.It only got worse,and I was able to stay on track and take it home.I also did my race school on the 2ct's. They will hold you back once the pace picks up though.Best of luck with everything
They held up awesomely on my 636 in the rain for sure. All except for one time the rear kicked out powering onto the straight.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #33
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UPDATE: Not finished but close!

UPDATE:

Racebike isn't finished, but it's close. New racer school starts the 28th of this month, but got to test it at our season opener trackday. It was a GoKart track so flat and really small, but the bike performed great, definitely a good HP increase now that it all tuned. Learned some things and got to analyze what needs improvement, as well as see where I'm at against a few other new and current racers in my class. Seem to be about average, which is good. My goal is just to finish and qualify for my license. Not finishing last place would be up and beyond! Any way, here's a break down of what's been done and to be done, as well as a few plans for the future (when I can afford it). Also a few pics at the end of it's current state and from the trackday.

Any and all commentary and constructive criticism is appreciated! I'll post another update when it's done, as well as after my first race weekend.


What's Been Done
New OEM front and rear sprocket
New RK 520 Chain
New Front and Rear Sprockets
New front and rear aftermarket rotors
New front and rear EBC sintered brake pads
Coolant flushed and replaced with Engine Ice
Oil flushed and replaced with Castrol Racing 4T Full Synthetic
New K&N Oil Filter
Brake fluid flushed and replaced
Carburetors cleaned and rebuilt
Re-jetted with new OEM equivalent 38 slow jets
Re-jetted with new OEM equivalent 110 main jets
Tuned for new jetting and air intake
Needles Shimmed
Air box delete, replaced with Highflow Air Pods
Replaced stock handlebars with clip-ons and 1-inch front lowering
Bar ends installed
Mirrors Removed, block off plates installed
Rear suspension adjusted
Frame Sliders and Swingarm Sliders
Passenger pegs removed, exhaust bracket installed
Pirelli Diablo Rosso II's mounted, 110 Front 140 Rear
Second set of wheel with new rotors, Rains mounted
Second set of cables (Clutch, Throttle, Choke) on hand
Second set of clip-ons on hand
Second set of Diablo Rosso II's on hand
All bearings cleaned and regreased
Entire bike degreased and cleaned

Street mods for offtrack:
Integrated tail light
Modified fender for cleaner look
Bar end mirror
Rear axle license plate mount

What's yet to be done:
Race fairings and belly pan installed
Cluster delete to tach
Brake lever guard installed
GSXR rear shock installed
MyLaps X2 Transponder installed
Safety wire


For the future:
Forks re-sprung to weight (first on list as soon as I can afford it)
Cartridge emulators
Full exhaust (TBD)
Quick shifter
515 chain and sprocket conversion
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa's
Racing fuel cap
Racing windscreen
Rear hugger fender
Aftermarket racing rearsets
Better quality brake pads
Keyless start
Racing kill switch moding
Removal of street light controls (possibility)
Dyno and re-tune
Any weight reduction I can find (duh)


Here's a few pics too!





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Old April 22nd, 2017, 07:33 PM   #34
Swann
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Hi csmith, the Pirelli SC1 front tires come in 100 or 90 too, but have to be specially ordered?

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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
90's are a special order from dealer, 100's are far more available. Nothing wrong with a sc1 front though. As far as where to get cheap plastics, wera classifieds maybe? They popup on ebay from time to time and I have a google alert setup up for a couple of items on craigslist. Maybe you could do the same.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 08:23 PM   #35
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Hi Jake,

Check with your track day tire vendor or dealer. If he/she has a close relationship with Pirelli, they may have the 90's on hand. One of my local orgs is big into small cc racing so they have them in stock "most" of the time. There is nothing special about the tire that makes them a dealer only order, sorry if I gave that impression.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #36
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Another update, long after the fact. I passed new racer school and got my novice license. It wasn't without misadventures though lol. Did several track days at a gokart track that a lot of the other racers practice at, and got advice directly from my mentors while there. Found that it was quite squarely in tight corners and I was fighting the bike. One suggestion was to raise the rear a bit and raise the front to as close to stock height as possible. Since I didn't have much time the night before loading up for NRS, I was prepping the bike and made the mistake of making a major decision while rushed and tired. Ended up putting zx6 dog bones on, which if I'd been rational would have relized rather than raising the bike, would actually lower it. As a result the bike became even worse, and the rear wanted to step out the more leaned over it went. Of course I didn't figure that out until the first run of the day for NRS, at which point I freaked out a bit worrying I wouldn't be able to complete NRS. I tried to find someone with a stock set of dogbones, because I had also somehow forgotten mine, but didn't find them. After talking to my mentors, they talked me into trying anyway, and despite the bike being squirly on both the front and rear, was able to make time and pass without incident! Unfortunately didn't get to race because of it that weekend, but at least I passed. I'll try to post more, but I'm also going to try to blog in the blogs section. I'll also post photos on my profile as often as possible.
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Old November 27th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #37
DannoXYZ
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Did you ever this suspension sorted?

I've found from hopping back & forth between my 2008 street-bike and 2008 race-bike that height-adjustments don't make as much of difference to squirreliness as spring-rates and damping. I've done this with my race-bike

- K-Tech rear shock
- 0,80kg front springs, 15wt oil, pre-load adjusters and gold cartridge emulators

Makes huge difference in stability.

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Old November 27th, 2017, 05:43 PM   #38
jrshooter
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your stepping the rear out mid turn ? raising the rear will make it turn quicker.
if your stepping the rear out mid turn, seams like not biegn smooth with the controls on cold tires , or to much air. if stepping out at turn in, are you heavy on the brakes at turn in ? trail braking?
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