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Old May 27th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #121
rojoracing53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky nrk View Post
ok so one more shot with actual maths

using yamaha setup as a base setup. Two sets of calipers, 27mm and 30mm pistons in calipers, 16mm radial master. 5115.06 mm^2 piston area in caliper, 200.96 mm^2 piston area in master. A 25.45 to 1 ratio

single ducati caliper, 30mm and 34mm pistions, total caliper piston area 3227.92 mm^2, for the same 25.45 to 1 ratio you would need 126.82 mm^2 master piston area. This would be a 12.7mm master cylinder piston. Not a normal size but damn close to a 1/2 inch master which is readily available.

Go up if you want firmer lever with less travel but likely harder to modulate. Go down if you want more travel at the lever with less firm bite.

There also the lever throw ratio. The farther the plunger is from the pivot point of your lever will also give the feel of a larger MC because you'll have less leverage. So if you have a 16mm MC with 20mm distance from plunger to pivot point and another 16mm MC with a 16mm plunger to pivot point distance the second with have the feel of say a 13-14mm MC with 20mm pivot point spacing.

It's for these many factors that I tried three MC before landing on one that worked.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by rojoracing53 View Post
There also the lever throw ratio. The farther the plunger is from the pivot point of your lever will also give the feel of a larger MC because you'll have less leverage. So if you have a 16mm MC with 20mm distance from plunger to pivot point and another 16mm MC with a 16mm plunger to pivot point distance the second with have the feel of say a 13-14mm MC with 20mm pivot point spacing.

It's for these many factors that I tried three MC before landing on one that worked.
true, I mentioned that a few posts up but since most are not adjustable (RCS series not withstanding) and I was not sure where to look up various ratios, and for theory discussion I kept input at the master constant. but that is absolutely correct and why the 15 and 19RCS are so popular I think.
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Old May 30th, 2014, 06:56 AM   #123
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Latest update!

So I got a chance to ride to work today on the setup.

my brakes are still soft but I got the new MC coming in hopefully soon.

The pads are finally start to bed in a little better.

That being said I did start to notice a little bit of feedback from the brakes.

What I think it is... I think that the little bit of bite over hang on the inside is causing the feed back. This over hang is literally 0.01" give or take. Regardless if it proves to be there all the time it is annoying and unacceptable

I will look into making the adjustments to the bolt holes this weekend to remedy this. Should be pretty easy as I have a good bit of room on the outside of the rotor yet so all I need to do is bump the holes out 0.03" or so at a right angle from the direction of travel of the rotor.... <-- I think that sounds right, either way, just more the caliper out a little bit on the rotor. that is all

This change plus the thickness change mentioned earlier should really be about all the adjustments to the first bracket I have and it will be perfect.

I haven't had any real problems as of yet though

After I get things figured out ill talk with Jason again about doing another small batch at my cost so I can get the updates. There may be 2 left over or so from this batch if they all turn out.

stay tuned
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Old May 30th, 2014, 07:23 AM   #124
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The beauty of the radial mount design is adjusting pad placement is as easy as adding spacers or removing a little more material. When I first made my bracket a made sure to leave an extra 5mm of material where the caliper bolts up. Then after measuring it when mounted I just faced off the extra material so my pads sit right at the outer edge of the rotor to give it the largest possible effective diameter. If I ever wanted to go to a bigger rotor then I just add in some spacers.

Even if your MC is to small your brakes should still grab hard if everything was done right. The only thing is your lever will feel a bit squishy.
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Old May 30th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #125
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You bastardo! I made a GB already, looks like ill put in on hold. Get me the new measurements and ill get to work, ill try to order the material tonight or tomorrow to get ti going a little faster
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Old May 30th, 2014, 07:28 AM   #126
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Shouldn't hurt anything, the changes to the bracket will be very minimal, as long as they machine properly they will be better than current. All the major bugs are worked out, this is fine tuning and not settling for anything less than perfect

The group buy will run for a few weeks anyway right?

I am still not 100% sure the feedback I am getting is from what I describe but it is the only thing I can think of? will be able to figure out more later when I ride some more. It could still be the pads and rotors breaking in.

I find it hard to believe that this little over hang would cause the little bit of feed back but that's all I can come up with at the moment.
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Old May 30th, 2014, 09:20 AM   #127
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I dont think the overhang really matters until the pads become so worn that they end up rubbing against themselves, in which case you basically have no front brake, if that is even possible (im not sure of the pad thickness and rotor thickness). So it is something i would rather take care of anyway.

But your right, i can still run this GB just to get a count. Im not going to require deposits or anything, but i dont want to make 10 brackets if only 2 people will buy them.
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Old May 30th, 2014, 10:56 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint View Post
I dont think the overhang really matters until the pads become so worn that they end up rubbing against themselves, in which case you basically have no front brake, if that is even possible (im not sure of the pad thickness and rotor thickness). So it is something i would rather take care of anyway.

But your right, i can still run this GB just to get a count. Im not going to require deposits or anything, but i dont want to make 10 brackets if only 2 people will buy them.
That issues is actually impossible in this instance as it is on the inside diameter or the contact part of the rotor not the outside.

again it is very very minimal and I still find it hard to believe it is the cause of the feedback I was getting.

This is a wave rotor, I have never used one before so I am thinking some of the feel is from this and I think it is amplified because of the squishy lever and I just took a spin on my lunch break and I definitely need to clean the rotor, brake pads and caliper again.

^these three things I think are all part of what I am experiencing which is like a stuttering at low speed light braking. <-- the frequency of the stutter I think has to do with either the waves on the rotor or the supports of the rotor where they meet the braking portion of the rotor (that little bit of overhang would not be touching anything and then meet this part of the rotor causing an effect) <-- this is a theory, over hang is 0.01-0.02 of an inch so IDK if it would have an affect.

Could also be effect of different areas of friction, caused by wave rotor again, or dirtiness of rotor, pads ect... or combination of both.

It is not noticeable at highspeeds with light or heavy braking, or harder braking at low speeds. So this makes me think the squishiness of the lever, fluid system might also play a role.

I think the "problem" is non issue and one or two easy fixes will clear everything up no problems.

But again, just took a cruise 30 miles no issues.

will ride home, remove caliper, inspect and clean everything with brake cleaner, put it all back together and I expect everything to break in and have no problems what so ever. New lever MC should be in hopefully in a week or so :thumb up:


edit: got the brake system today, that was super fast. I wasn't expecting it until next week at earliest. Hopefully i can get it together this weekend as long as i have all the bits ect...
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Old May 31st, 2014, 10:16 AM   #129
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bling bling!

Got everything hooked up this morning quick.

Went for a quick scoot everything feels really good. Still have a little brake chatter but i still think it is getting better and will go away once everything breaks in. I should have cleaned my new rotor a little better before i put it on. I think there was some grease, oil lube IDK? on some of the buttons it comes off onto the braking portion of the rotor. I cleaned the buttons just a little bit ago hopefully that helps. Time will tell, might take a week of me commuting before everything breaks in decent.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 01:40 PM   #130
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If you have any greasy/oily junk on the brake rotor; use high concentration rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner to clean the rotor surface, then take the pads out and just barely sand the surface off with sand paper. It will get rid of all material that has any oil on/in it. You will have to basically bed the pad again though, so no crazy braking for a bit, just firm gradual stuff to get the pad happy.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 08:46 AM   #131
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Just to update, I couldn't edit any of my older posts but.

Since I bought the rotor I had questions whether or not it was actually 320mm as described via the ebay ad which mind you had many mistakes in it.

It always just seemed a little small, so someone was asking questions about my set up and wanted some detailed info so I went out and measured it today while it was on the bike. It looks like it is actually a 310mm rotor and NOT 320.

This does not surprise me, again with all the other errors in the ads.
Either way, if anyone is interested in this set up and the bracket from Jay, just get the Ara shi ninja 250 rotor as seen on ebay and you should be fine. They should all be the correct size which is 310mm per my measurement and this number is listed on some of the ads, just not the one I bought my rotor off of

Also, no issues with anything, I probably have 2k miles on the set up, rotor seems to be holding up phenomenally
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Old September 4th, 2014, 02:56 AM   #132
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I have a Radial Brake master from a Ninja 1000, has anyone tried using any other brake masters?

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Old December 1st, 2017, 08:25 PM   #133
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I already have a radial brake setup with the KTC Callioer and bracket. For the master I went with an R6 Brembo unit. Still on the stock rotor, but I definitely need to switch out to more grippy pads. The current ones lack bite and don’t inspire confidence at all.

Any idea what pads I can use to replace the ones in this calliper? I’m currently travelling, or I would have removed the callipers and taken pictures.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 10:49 PM   #134
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Quote:
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Some computer drawings of bracket @Bigballsofpaint sent me

Just hope all my measurements were perfect Not to much wiggle room here
Thats bracket will look so good. Do you have stopping distance's yet from the new setup?
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:26 AM   #135
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I already have a radial brake setup with the KTC Callioer and bracket. For the master I went with an R6 Brembo unit. Still on the stock rotor, but I definitely need to switch out to more grippy pads. The current ones lack bite and don’t inspire confidence at all.

Any idea what pads I can use to replace the ones in this calliper? I’m currently travelling, or I would have removed the callipers and taken pictures.
Hans!! Do you know what model of bike your caliper was intended for? You might want that info, then check with your favorite high performance brake pad manufacturer to see what they make that was intended for that model of bike.

I like Vesrah on my Ninja, they're plenty soft and tame for street use when they're cool, but really seem to come alive with bite when they have some heat in them at the track.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:40 AM   #136
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Hans!! Do you know what model of bike your caliper was intended for? You might want that info, then check with your favorite high performance brake pad manufacturer to see what they make that was intended for that model of bike.

I like Vesrah on my Ninja, they're plenty soft and tame for street use when they're cool, but really seem to come alive with bite when they have some heat in them at the track.
Hi Chris, thanks for replying. I eventually called the company I bought it from and they helped me out. It’s this pad. I’m going to order it soon. This is the only weak point in my braking right now and I’m planning on hitting the track again very soon. The master cylinder is doing an excellent job with feedback and pressure, but the pads just don’t grip well enough.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 08:09 AM   #137
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but the pads just don’t grip well enough.
Do yourself a little sanity check before buying new pads.

Pull the pads out. Lightly sand the face that contacts the rotor until fresh surface is visible on the whole face. Clean the rotor with brake cleaner. Lightly sand the rotor with a cross-hatch pattern until it's not shiny anymore. Then put the pads in and go through the process of bedding them in again.

May as well clean and grease the caliper slide pins while you're in there.

It may help, it may not. But it's free.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 09:51 AM   #138
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No slidy pins, these are fixed 4-pot Brembo calipers like you'd find on Porsches.

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Hi Chris, thanks for replying. I eventually called the company I bought it from and they helped me out. It’s this pad. I’m going to order it soon. This is the only weak point in my braking right now and I’m planning on hitting the track again very soon. The master cylinder is doing an excellent job with feedback and pressure, but the pads just don’t grip well enough.
Are you saying "don't grip well enough" because you don't have eyeball-popping deceleration with using pinky finger to brake? That's OK as any performance track-oriented pad will seem stiff and not grippy on the first cold application,which is what you're doing on the street. It's the 100th full-braking effort in a row that makes the difference where sticky street pads will have melted and the track pad feels the same.
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Old March 3rd, 2018, 05:17 AM   #139
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No slidy pins, these are fixed 4-pot Brembo calipers like you'd find on Porsches.



Are you saying "don't grip well enough" because you don't have eyeball-popping deceleration with using pinky finger to brake? That's OK as any performance track-oriented pad will seem stiff and not grippy on the first cold application,which is what you're doing on the street. It's the 100th full-braking effort in a row that makes the difference where sticky street pads will have melted and the track pad feels the same.
Not satisfied with the stopping distance basically. It feels like the pads have very little bite. I’m going to try Chris’s solution first and try scrubbing the pads and disc before doing anything else.
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Old March 4th, 2018, 12:19 AM   #140
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Not satisfied with the stopping distance basically. It feels like the pads have very little bite. I’m going to try Chris’s solution first and try scrubbing the pads and disc before doing anything else.
What diameter is the R6 MC compared to stock?

Those SBS are race pads. They tend to be harder to deal with heat. As a result, on first use on street , they'll have no grip. You'll need to squeeze harder. Try braking hard from 100kph 10x in row quickly. They may feel better after that.
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Old March 4th, 2018, 12:24 AM   #141
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What diameter is the R6 MC compared to stock?

Those SBS are race pads.
Hi, sorry for the confusion, the SBS pads are ones I WANT to get, the ones on right now are the ones I got with the calliper.

p.s. The R6 master cylinder(16mm?) is perfect. 1-2 finger braking would be possible with more grippy pads. I can physically feel the disk slipping between the pads, as the master cylinder squeezes them together. The feel at the master is firm and confidence inspiring.
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