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Old August 12th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #1
HoneyBadgerRy
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Do Pods actually make more power?

Has anybody actually made more dyno rwhp with a pod filter then the stock filter? I think the best bet would be to put the K&N R-0990 inside the airbox.

I don't want to see anything about value or how hard it is to work on or jetting, I just want personal experience from people who have done it and the power then made. (preferably dyno)
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Old August 12th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #2
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I would say it makes a little. But it cuts the tuning time down. Taking out the air box is not easy.
With a full exhaust and other mods it worth one or two.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #3
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I think it is pretty well accepted that with a good jet setup you can get a little more power from a pod setup vs a removed snorkel setup. Not much but a little more.

There are pro's and cons to both, pick the way that you like the best. I like the air box removal and pods. It created a lot of space and made some other mods i did a lot easier and maybe even possible at all.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 04:54 PM   #4
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I personally have not had my bike on the dyno, buuuuuuut area P has tested every combination of airbox, nodded airbox, drop in filters, pods, etc they could and found that pods repeatably made more power when properly jetted/tuned on both the newgen and 300.

Gasp.


There's a thread somewhere on here with info from Area P during their R&D of the ninja 300 system and maps and they explain their results to us, as well as the similarities to results with the newgen. I don't remember reading much from them on the pregen, as they had really terrible sales on that exhaust system and did not have nearly the open discussion during their R&D time, which is a shame. The thread has oodles of dyno runs with various setups, the Area P website has dyno results from their final products.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 06:22 PM   #5
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No filter at all makes the most power. Don't be scared.��
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Old August 12th, 2015, 06:54 PM   #6
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Eric is right.
The way to go is with this

Do a test on the dyno and find out which lenght you need.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 07:49 PM   #7
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@alex.s can you come yell at these guys for a sec about CV carbs and stuff?
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Old August 12th, 2015, 08:08 PM   #8
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I would highly recommend that you DO NOT REMOVE THE AIR BOX, the carburetors on the bike are CV type and need to box to function properly, buy a K&N that fits the OEM airbox(K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter by K&N Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive ) that's the short version.

Long boring but important answer, CV carbs stands for "constant velocity". The function of the carbs is dependent on having a calm reservoir (airbox) from which to intake air at said constant velocity. Pods draw from the turbulent, unpredictable air swirling past them as you ride, which is anything but constant. Other carbs work fine with pods. CV's = no bueno, save yourself the headaches.

Now onto jetting, first you need to tune the idle mixture screws first, I recommend 3 full turns out from bottom as a good starting point, then fine tune them afterwards. As far as buying a jet kit, I personally don't have one on either my 250, or 500 ninjas. I did got up one size on my main jets, due to they are lean from the factory, and shimmed the main needles with a small washer.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #9
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I would highly recommend that you DO NOT REMOVE THE AIR BOX, the carburetors on the bike are CV type and need to box to function properly, buy a K&N that fits the OEM airbox(K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter by K&N Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive ) that's the short version.

Long boring but important answer, CV carbs stands for "constant velocity". The function of the carbs is dependent on having a calm reservoir (airbox) from which to intake air at said constant velocity. Pods draw from the turbulent, unpredictable air swirling past them as you ride, which is anything but constant. Other carbs work fine with pods. CV's = no bueno, save yourself the headaches.

Now onto jetting, first you need to tune the idle mixture screws first, I recommend 3 full turns out from bottom as a good starting point, then fine tune them afterwards. As far as buying a jet kit, I personally don't have one on either my 250, or 500 ninjas. I did got up one size on my main jets, due to they are lean from the factory, and shimmed the main needles with a small washer.
Here we go again. What headaches should he save himself from? I've had this 0990 on for at least 3 years and it's only saved me from headache. The bike also pulls until it runs out of rpm for top speed.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 10:19 PM   #10
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@alex.s can you come yell at these guys for a sec about CV carbs and stuff?
trumpets are the way to go.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #11
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Changing exhaust headers & pipe, air filter/pods and different jets is fine, but understand there is always a trade off. You trade consistent performance throughout the rev range for peak power. That's fine if you're on the track and keeping it near redline 90% of the time.

If you want it done properly you need to dyno it to get your AFR's right. No point in burning a hole in your pistons. No two bikes, even of the same model, will ever respond 100% identically to the same changes either. All trial by error.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 01:09 AM   #12
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No two bikes, even of the same model, will ever respond 100% identically to the same changes either.
Thx for confirming that and this also means (what many don't want to understand) that a map made for one FI-Bike will never be the best tune for another one.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 02:54 AM   #13
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Oh lord, here we go again...

Scott, do you actually care to explain your thoughts further or are you going to continue to just tell us ZOMG DONT USE PODS?!? Your long and technical answer needs some links to reputable articles and explaination of concepts. Last time, I explained how pressure drop across an orifice and the Venturi effect works, but you still continue to say ZOMG DONE USE PODS. Again, no offense but until you started going on about the pod filters, many people used pods and got nice running bikes. So far of everyone here, my post offered a thread to search for with tons of dyno results and tech info fr Kerry at Area P, yours just says ZOMG DONT USE PODS. Do you see why this is frustrating? I'm not trying to be rude, I just want your full explaination.

Edit: I guess i should go further. I do see every time that you mention turbulence and turn over in that cavity. That's fair enough. But it's consistent air movement and therefore tune able. Additionally, there is going to be some velocity drop as air comes through the filter element, which means air smoothing as air enters the carb.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 03:13 AM   #14
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Personally I just don't use 'em because it hinders my ability to ride in the rain.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 03:15 AM   #15
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^no it doesn't. We've had record rainfall in June and July. No issues. If that's giving you issues, it's likely because you're riding through the creek.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 06:01 AM   #16
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Personally I just don't use 'em because it hinders my ability to ride in the rain.
Never had much of a problem actually riding in the rain. I had some issues 2 times out of 3 years that i can think of with the bike sitting in the parking lot during a long heavy rain storm while I was a work and the filter got wet while it was sitting, wasn't the end of the world or anything, the bike still ran.

Could easily just take a plastic bag with me and put it over the filter if I expect rain but it happens so rarely I don't even care

As far as Pods being the devil on the CV carbs there is next to no proof available that this is the case. Sure the science/physics of it all says that it is not how things are supposed to work but clearly they work pretty well. There are probably 1000's of ninjette owners with pods and several regulars members including myself who have never had a single problem over several years of riding. On top of that there are tons of dyno charts of bikes with pods that have great power curves
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Old August 13th, 2015, 07:46 AM   #17
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We have 2 Ninja 250s - one with an airbox, no snorkel, and a Uni filter, the other with a K&N Pod (double inlet, single element).

Both have been tuned and adjusted, and run smooth throughout the entire rev range.

I'm not a big fan of pods, but my son (who rides them both a lot) says the pods are better - even in the midrange.

Either way, if you spend the time to do some research and are prepared to make adjustments you can get a CV to fuel well with pods. He's thinking of changing the other one to pods also.

The Ninja's airbox isn't an advanced design. Newer high performance airbox designs provide less turbulent flow and the volume is tuned for resonance to increase peak power or smooth power delivery.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 01:26 PM   #18
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^^exactly. and I've mentioned that before. The ninjette (pregen especially) has an airbox design where the intent is simply to hold the air filter and clean incoming air. If I had a newer bike with an intake designed to take advantage of both intake pulse resonance and turbulence to optimize the setup, I would leave it stock.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 05:27 AM   #19
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I like the top end pull and how pods make it really easy to get the carbs off. That being said if I had to do it over again I'd probably just stick with stock or get the EFI kit. Jetting the carbs can be a pain in the ass if you want to get it right.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 05:38 AM   #20
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Ultimatly I would think that POD can produce more HP; but to get that increase you need to find tune the Carbs and full performance exhaust. You will probably need a Dyno run to finish your setup. After all that I dought that you can feel any difference.

If you not prepare to go all the way, I would keep the Airbox, it simpler and most of the carbs trick are already know.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 02:46 PM   #21
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I like the top end pull and how pods make it really easy to get the carbs off. That being said if I had to do it over again I'd probably just stick with stock or get the EFI kit. Jetting the carbs can be a pain in the ass if you want to get it right.
The efi Kit is an entirely new can of worms when it comes to tuning. Despite the manufacturer claims, that kit is NO pnp. Runs well with some effort, but totally not pnp
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Old August 14th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #22
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The bottom line is you don't get power from an air filter.

Power comes from tuning. And then engine mods. Compression ,ignition ,camshaft and cylinder head desine all have to work with an intake and exhaust that are designed to operate under intended conditions.

You can make top end power or bottom end grunt. But when you are dealing with 249cc you just don't get both.

Efi or carb does not matter how the fuel and ignition work. It's proper set up. If is good. Then you make power. Any error and its not.
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