ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 18th, 2011, 06:12 PM   #1
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Thermo-Bob installation on a Ninja 250

Installed a Thermo-Bob/Bypass 195F kit on my 07 KLR650 two years ago because the KLR ran cold in the winter. After the Thermo-Bob installation, the KLR warms up faster and no longer runs cold in the winter. Going by the
KLR temp indicator gauge.

Suspected the 99 Ninja 250 of running cold, too. Checked the coolant at normal operating temp coming out of the upper radiator hose into the radiator and found it to be 170F during the summer.

The 99 Ninja 250 thermostat opens at 146F to 152F with full lift (open) at 176F

The 07 KLR 650 Thermostat opens at 157F to 162F with full lift at 185F (Hotter than the Ninja)

Got in touch with "Watt-Man" that developed the Thermo-Bob/Bypass 195F kit and put a kit together
for my Ninja 250.

Installed the kit this week and the Ninja warms up slightly faster. It runs slightly warmer about one temp gauge needle width warmer. The fuel economy is the same, it's probably my imagination, but it seems like it is more responsive in the mid RPM range. Took the Ninja for a 70 mile test ride at speeds up to 75MPH and 13,000 RPM and had no issues.

Expecting faster warm-ups with warmer operating temps during the winter.

Here is Watt-Man's Site:

http://www.shop.watt-man.com/

Here is a third party review of the Thermo-Bob/Bypass kit
(gives a better explanation about the Thermo-Bob/Bypass system than I can):

http://klrworld.com/index.php?option...193&Itemid=286

Thermo-Bob thermostat/bypass housing installed using original upper radiator hose
between old thermostat housing and radiator.



Bypass Tee installed using original lower radiator hose between lower radiator port and lower
coolant pipe.





Using sheet metal shear to remove original Kawasaki thermostat internal parts so the
original seal & housing could be used in the original thermostat housing to seal it,
but the Thermo-Bob has a 195F thermostat to control the Ninja's coolant temps in the future.







This shows the bypass hose routing from the lower bypass Tee to the Thermo-Bob housing.



exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote




Old October 18th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #2
Alex
ninjette.org dude
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
Nice!
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org

ninjette.org Terms of Service, ninjette.org Member Map

Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first.

The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 05:12 AM   #3
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Thanks,

The overall length of the Thermo-Bob unit is 3.5".
The ThermoBob length is 1.9" not including the nipples.

The overall length of the Tee/Bypass is 2". The Tee/Bypass is .8" not including
the nipples.

Cut the lower radiator hose in half at the 90 degree bend, then cut
3/8" off of each straight end of both hoses to install the 3/4" hose Tee/Bypass.



Cut a section out of the top radiator hose to install the 3/4" hose ThermoBob unit.



exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 06:46 AM   #4
camaroz1985
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
camaroz1985's Avatar
 
Name: Ryan
Location: Carlisle, PA
Join Date: Nov 2008

Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold)

Posts: A lot.
Interesting. I have seen a few installs on the Versys forums, and have been considering one. I could see how it would be even more beneficial on a carb'd bike.
camaroz1985 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 06:58 AM   #5
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
The Thermo-Bob review helped me to understand the benefits of the Thermo-Bob:

http://klrworld.com/index.php?option...193&Itemid=286

Thanks,
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #6
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
Ummmm... What's a Thermo-Bob?
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #7
Alex
ninjette.org dude
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
It's a bit of a cross between a widget and a thingamajig.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org

ninjette.org Terms of Service, ninjette.org Member Map

Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first.

The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 11:21 AM   #8
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
Well that explains it.
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #9
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Glad he explained it, best I can do is a thing-a-ma-bob!

Here are some more temp indications:

Temp indication when the fan turns on:



Temp indication when the fan turns off



Temp indication when the Thermo-Bob thermostat opens and where it stays while riding.
70 mile test ride during 80F outdoor temps, speeds up to 75MPH and up to 13,000RPM.

exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #10
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
So what is an optimum temp to be at all the time?
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 19th, 2011, 11:49 AM   #11
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
The following review gives an explanation of this system using a 195F thermostat, better than I can:

http://klrworld.com/index.php?option...193&Itemid=286
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 20th, 2011, 07:14 AM   #12
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
OK. So this has become interesting to me. I've started my own research and here is some of the data I've gathered and my "understanding" so far. I'm going to use this data and my particular weather conditions to determine if the buck is worth the bang for me.

Let me first say that I have a KOSO gauge display on my 250 and it includes a coolant temp reading that I can monitor. It also has an oil temp sensor too that I have yet to install. That will be done during my next oil change if not sooner. This morning in particular, Florida is having a "colder" spell and I commuted this morning at around 45 degree's. I noticed the bike still seemed to warm up nicely with the choke on but once I hit the road the temps never really came up to what I would call "normal" much less optimum. During my expressway commute I don't think the bike every went over 140 degree's and it mostly hovered around 125 degree's. If I am interpreting the information correctly then the Thermo-Bob should correct the inadequate highway temp and provide a more stable and optimum temp during our colder months and also would maintain a more consistent temperature during our typical 95 degree+ summer months. This will be my second winter where I plan to continue commuting to work on the 250. I'm thinking as of now this farkle may be worth the buck.

What I need to know now is I noticed you said you contacted them to design a kit for the 250. What changes were made and what was the final cost of the kit? What is the optimum temp we are looking for any way and would a cooler thermostat (less than 195 degree's) from Thermo-Bob be better for me since most of my year involves warmer temps. My KOSO gauge also record's the maximum coolant temp which I believe is currently 222 degree's. The SM says fully open at 176 so would a 180 degree thermostat be a good choice?





__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 20th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #13
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
He charges $125 for all kits except for the universal kit @ $139, not sure what he will charge for the Ninja 250 kit. My kit was close to the KLR kit's parts with 3/4" hose 195F Thermo-Bob unit & 3/4" hose thermostat Bypass Tee and a 10 1/4" bypass hose.

There was discussion on another forum about the fan switch turning the fan on @ 94C (201F) and back off @ 90C (194F). The Thermobob is next to the old Ninja thermostat housing with coolant coming directly out of the cylinders where the coolant is hotter than the coolant after running through the radiator by the time it gets to the fan switch. In other words the coolant has to be much hotter than the Thermobob 195F open temp to to reach the temps to turn on and turn off the fan, as indicated in my previous temp indicator photos.

Bill (Watt-man) is a Mechanical Engineer and I am not. He offers two temp thermostats, 180F & 195F, but thought the 195F thermostat would be best for my Ninja.

When I tested the original Ninja thermostat open temp in the radiator it was @ 170F and the Thermo-Bob 195F thermostat open, indicates 188F when it reaches the radiator before being cooled by the radiator. This is a "guess", but assume the radiator bypass is sending appx 190F coolant to the cylinders after warm-up.

The Thermo-Bob system works great in my KLR during the winter & summer and I will have more time for testing the Ninja in cold weather after I finish my current project, installing an SV650 17" front wheel/fender on my 650 Vstrom.

I have detailed Ninja installation descriptions/photos if you get a kit like mine, and will be happy to share them with you or anyone that wants them.

Hope this helps and back to work on the Vstrom!

Last futzed with by exploring/carolina; October 20th, 2011 at 05:36 PM.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 20th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #14
choneofakind
Where's my R6?!?!?!
 
choneofakind's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): None anymore

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
So basically this just bypasses the stock cooling system until it gets up to temp, then lets the radiator step in until its at the right temp, and then bypasses the radiator as need to make sure that the engine doesn't get too cool? NEAT!!

whenever I ride in really cold weather, I just cover about 1/3 of the radiator with a piece of cardboard and it usually keeps the temp gauge right where it normally is in summer.

So is this widget-thingy-ma-doodle ok to keep on your bike for the summer? I assume it would be since it just makes sure the engine doesn't get too cool
__________________________________________________
My ninjette may have fallen off the ugly tree, but I think she's beautiful
Leathers are hottt. Buy some and wear them every time!!!
I am slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 20th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #15
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
It's designed for year around use.

I think the installation on my 99 Ninja 250 "might" be the
first on a Ninja 250. Will give feed back as I ride the Ninja
over the next 12 months.

Since the KLR650 had a needed "Doohicky" upgrade and I guess Watt-man did not want to call it a "Thing-a-ma-bob"
it ended up with the name of "Thermo-Bob" (I think) as another needed upgrade for the KLR650.

I did not take the Thermo-Bob apart for inspection before installation, but from information I previously reviewed before installation and temp graphs posted by dubojr1, it is a continious coolant circulation loop, with the thermostat open or closed.

I wanted to share the Thermo-Bob installation information, since winter is
just around the next curve!
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 20th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #16
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
I'm a believer: bought it, installed it, liking how it operates.

Bought the Thermo Bob kit and installed it on my 2005 EX-250 fuel injection project bike.

Before the Thermo Bob my EX-250 was very cold-natured, it took forever to get up to anything even approaching a normal engine operating temperature and even then it ran pretty cool any time the weather was less than about 70 degrees, which is quite often here in Spokane. With temperatures anywhere below the mid 50s my EX-250's temperature gauge needle would only rise to just above the cold line.

Now, with the Thermo Bob installed I've been riding the last three days in temperatures from the mid 30s up to low 50s. In these temperatures the gauge needle now rises quickly to just below halfway on the gauge and stays there.

Today I connected up my netbook computer to the fuel injection ECU (Microsquirt) dataport and recorded a datalog of my ride with an outside air temperature of 47 degrees. The coolant trace on the 35 mile ride showed an engine temperature of right around 175 degrees during all of the ride which consisted of about half highway and half stop-and-go. The highest temperature of the day was 185 degrees occurred at the end of the ride when I sat stationary, idling in the driveway for a few minutes to see how high it would go.

As I've said, I'm loving how the Thermo Bob has corrected my EX-250's cold natured operation in outside temperatures below the mid 50s. Now it quickly achieves and holds a good operating temperature.

I'll have to wait until late June or early July to find out how it works in hot temps, but I'm not expecting any trouble because the Thermo Bob is just the combination of a slightly higher temperature thermostat and a small coolant bypass line which shouldn't affect the cooling system's ability to maintain a normal upper temperature limit.

Link to original page on YouTube.

greg737 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old November 20th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #17
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
The Thermo-Bob is working fine in my Ninja, too.
Have operated in 80F temps so far, without any issues. Don't think there will be any issues operating in 100F temps, either.

Since the 195F Thermo-Bob is on the hot/inlet side of the radiator and the fan switch is on the cooler side of the radiator, the fan switch does not see higher 201F temps to turn the fan on or off @ 194F during normal operation, since the fan switch is located where the coolant has been cooled by the radiator "after" passing through the Thermo-Bob unit.

The only way I can get the fan to turn on with the Thermo-Bob installed is by sitting for extended periods with the engine running as shown with the temp indication photos earlier in this thread.

Have been operating in the 40s this winter and the Ninja warms up quickly and the temp gauge stays one needle width warmer than it did without the Thermo-Bob.

Really like the YouTube videos about the Ninja 250 Thermo-Bob & fuel injection system installations by greg737. Nice job!

Additonal Thermo-Bob installation information,

Cut the Thermo-Bob By-Pass hose to 10 1/4" long. Had to install & clamp the bypass hose to the Thermo-Bob before installing the Thermo-Bob because it's too tight to get to once the Thermo-Bob is installed.



There is 1/16" clearance on both ends between the 3/4" Tee at the lower radiator port and lower coolant pipe. Cut the 90 degree hose in the center of the 90 degree bend and cut 3/8" off the end of each hose where previously clamped. If one side of the hose is cut short, use the short side on the lower radiator port connecting the straight hose ends of both hoses to the radiator port and lower coolant pipe first. The only way I could get the Tee between the hoses was to lubricate the lower coolant pipe, slide the coolant pipe hose down far enough to allow the Tee to fit between the hoses, sliding the lower hose up on the Tee last. Shame on you if you forget to have the clamps on before slipping the hoses on both ends of the Tee.



Bent the temp gauge sending unit electrical blade connection down 90 degrees with my finger to clear the Thermo-Bob.


Last futzed with by exploring/carolina; November 21st, 2011 at 07:43 AM.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 06:09 AM   #18
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
Thanks Bill and Greg for the excellent write-ups! This mod is definitely in my future.

Greg: Which kit did you order?
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 07:19 AM   #19
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
dubojr1, when I ordered the Thermo-Bob kit ordered the 3/4" hose Thermo-Bob unit and 3/4" hose By-Pass tee. Cut the small by-pass hose to 10 1/4" long. You will find the original upper radiator hose to be 3/4" ID and the lower radiator hose to be 7/8" ID. Have not had any problems using the 3/4" tee with the original 7/8"ID radiator hose.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 07:54 AM   #20
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by exploring/carolina View Post
dubojr1, when I ordered the Thermo-Bob kit ordered the 3/4" hose Thermo-Bob unit and 3/4" hose By-Pass tee. Cut the small by-pass hose to 10 1/4" long. You will find the original upper radiator hose to be 3/4" ID and the lower radiator hose to be 7/8" ID. Have not had any problems using the 3/4" tee with the original 7/8"ID radiator hose.
Thanks Bill. I wonder if Thermo-Bob is having a Black Friday Sale...
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 09:05 AM   #21
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Greg: Which kit did you order?
Here's a copy of the instructions Bill (Watt-man) sent me:

If you want a Thermo-Bob, you can call me and I can take credit cards over
the phone now. Or, if you prefer to use PayPal, you can go to my old
website that is still the main page for everyone else at
www.xanga.com/watt_man and order a kit for a 2007 KLR650 with a note in the
"Special Instructions" column that it's really for a Ninja 250
and I'll ship
it!

Bill
Watt-man.com


Jason (dubojr1), it will be interesting to read about your experience with the Thermo Bob (both installing it on a new-gen, and your riding/operational impressions). It has really changed the nature of my EX-250 here in the Spokane cold. Unfortunately the snow has shut down all motorcycling at the moment, but we're supposed to have a warm-up with some rain to re-clear the roads. I could be riding again in a few days.
greg737 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 09:26 AM   #22
dubojr1
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
dubojr1's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Join Date: May 2010

Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg737 View Post
Here's a copy of the instructions Bill (Watt-man) sent me:

If you want a Thermo-Bob, you can call me and I can take credit cards over
the phone now. Or, if you prefer to use PayPal, you can go to my old
website that is still the main page for everyone else at
www.xanga.com/watt_man and order a kit for a 2007 KLR650 with a note in the
"Special Instructions" column that it's really for a Ninja 250
and I'll ship
it!

Bill
Watt-man.com


Jason (dubojr1), it will be interesting to read about your experience with the Thermo Bob (both installing it on a new-gen, and your riding/operational impressions). It has really changed the nature of my EX-250 here in the Spokane cold. Unfortunately the snow has shut down all motorcycling at the moment, but we're supposed to have a warm-up with some rain to re-clear the roads. I could be riding again in a few days.
Yeah it looks like I may be the first to evaluate it on a new gen that is equipped with the needed coolant temperature readings. I really hate that my bike will not come up to what is considered a "normal" operating temperature and then maintain it without fluctuating the temperature readings so much during normal riding conditions in both hot and cold environment. This seems to be the perfect fix though.

BTW... Thanks for the ordering instructions!
__________________________________________________
09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time!

Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map
dubojr1 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2011, 09:41 AM   #23
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Jason,

Looking forward to seeing an installation on a new gen.

Doubt if "Wattman" has a Black Friday sale!

Greg,

Sorry to hear about your weather. Hope it gets better soon!

We will have mid 70s this afternoon and Jason will probably
have warmer temps where he is located.

Last futzed with by exploring/carolina; November 22nd, 2011 at 05:31 AM.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old January 20th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #24
choneofakind
Where's my R6?!?!?!
 
choneofakind's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): None anymore

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Bill,

I think I might take a page out of your book and buy a Thermo-Bob for my bike. I was having some really warm engine operation this summer when it was in the 90's for two weeks, and then forgot to cover part of my radiator when it got down to 40 at night in the late fall. Annoying.

In your year of use, has the Thermo-bob done everything it was supposed to do? Any issues with anything? I think this will compliment my EFI setup nicely.

Again, thanks for the write-up on this. It will help a ton when I do my install in the spring.
__________________________________________________
My ninjette may have fallen off the ugly tree, but I think she's beautiful
Leathers are hottt. Buy some and wear them every time!!!
I am slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 24th, 2014, 12:45 AM   #25
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Bill,

I think I might take a page out of your book and buy a Thermo-Bob for my bike. I was having some really warm engine operation this summer when it was in the 90's for two weeks, and then forgot to cover part of my radiator when it got down to 40 at night in the late fall. Annoying.

In your year of use, has the Thermo-bob done everything it was supposed to do? Any issues with anything? I think this will compliment my EFI setup nicely.

Again, thanks for the write-up on this. It will help a ton when I do my install in the spring.
Sorry about the late reply. Have not had any issues with this installation so far.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 25th, 2014, 11:06 AM   #26
InvisiBill
EX500 full of EX250 parts
 
InvisiBill's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012

Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 '09 Ninja 500R (selling) '98 VFR800 (project) '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold)

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
To simplify it, the Thermo-Bob is just a way to add a bypass to your cooling system, like most cars have.

In the stock setup, there's a single loop from the water pump, through the engine, to the thermostat, then the radiator, and back to the pump. If it's too cold for the thermostat to open, then basically no flow occurs in the system. This keeps coolant from flowing through the radiator and getting cooled even more, but it also keeps the warm coolant in the engine from getting out. When it finally does get enough warm coolant to the stat to open it, cold coolant from the radiator surges into the engine and the stat shuts again, leading to a cycle of surging temps.

With the Thermo-Bob, you have a loop from the pump, through the engine, then the Thermo-Bob housing, and back to the pump. When the thermostat heats up, flow is also allowed through the radiator to cool down and head back to the pump. When cold, this allows the coolant to keep circulating through the engine, keeping it a more constant temperature.

In one of the pages on his site, he talks about the effect of having the bypass always open when the bike is hot. It allows some coolant to bypass the radiator, but that means the coolant going through the radiator is slightly slower, so the increased dwell time means slightly more cooling. In the real world, this came out to about 3F increase in temps when hot. With the stock setup, the engine input and output temps varied by at least 35F, so 3F in the worst conditions sounds pretty darn good.

I have no data, but it also seems to me that the water pump would be happier pushing the cold coolant around in a loop, rather than fighting against the blocked flow when the thermostat is closed.

The 500 has individual cylinder outputs for the coolant, which merge back at the thermostat housing. I'm working on modifying a stock housing to add a bypass port on the bottom under the stat. The 250 housing looks similar, so you could probably do that as well for a cheaper, DIY Thermo-Bob. This would leave the upper hose intact and get rid of the Thermo-Bob housing, but you'd still need to splice the bypass line back into the lower hose.
InvisiBill is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 25th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #27
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Agree, a bypass on the cylinder head side of the thermostat to the waterpump intake would work. The size of the bypass ID hose/fittings would be important, did not keep any info on this unless it's in this thread.

The OEM thermostat information used in the original post, cracks @ 146F to 152F, found this info to change in a later service manual "supplement" to crack @ 177F to 182F with full open @ 203F.

I ride this Ninja weekly and it still warms up nicely within 5 to 10 minutes when the temps are 40F and have not had any issues with it when the temps are 90F and above.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 25th, 2014, 02:00 PM   #28
misfitsailor
Ninjette Jockey
 
misfitsailor's Avatar
 
Name: Tim
Location: Stockton, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R, Harley Davidson Heritage Softail, 2 Honda Monkeys, Polini & GRC mini GP

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 3
The ThermoBob is the way Kawasaki should have done the cooling system in the first place. Before I got one, warm ups were always slow. In cold weather, the bike never warmed up at all. The running temps were all over the place, sometimes too low, other times rather high. Now warm ups are fast year round and temps are constant within a close range. Having your engine run at constant temps will increase it's life.
__________________________________________________


For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?.
misfitsailor is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 25th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #29
rojoracing53
Fast-Guy wannabe
 
rojoracing53's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50,

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
I've been running a thermo-bob for two years on my 2009 and it works great. I don't warm up my bike and instead I just start it as I'm rolling down my driveway and just cruise for about 2 mins. After 2 mins I'm already at 150f and only a min or so later I'm at a full temp of 190f. I'd imagine the fact that my bike warms up so fast now as helps with me never needing the choke because by the time I come to the first stop sign I'm already well over 100f.
rojoracing53 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 25th, 2014, 02:23 PM   #30
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
My 1980 Honda CX500D Street Tracker has a similar coolant bypass circuit.

Warm up the Ninja the same way in the winter, crank it up, ride slow (under 50MPH) for 5 minutes, and it's ready to roll after that short warm up period.

Going to convert the Ninja into a Cafe Racer later this year!
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 08:05 AM   #31
choneofakind
Where's my R6?!?!?!
 
choneofakind's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): None anymore

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Resurrecting a good thread:

Any special considerations with the Bob for purging air out of the system the first time? Or is it the same age-old process of leaving the radiator open upon start-up and filling until the bubbling stops?
__________________________________________________
My ninjette may have fallen off the ugly tree, but I think she's beautiful
Leathers are hottt. Buy some and wear them every time!!!
I am slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 08:33 AM   #32
rojoracing53
Fast-Guy wannabe
 
rojoracing53's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50,

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
No it's much harder, you have to kind of feel out the process since theonger you do it the more fluid you'll get into the system before starting it and finishing the purge. First I fill it up the best I can then massage the hose between the motor and bypass feed(left side of the motor). As you squeeze and release the hose your moving a small amount of fluid that little by little displaces air. You'll see bubbles riding to the fill cap and the fluid dropping so keep it tipped of and keep pumping the hose. After this looses its effectiveness I think I start the bike with the cap off for a minute and ether continue pumping the hose while it's running or after I turn it back off after the minute, I don't remember exactly. The idea is to try and get as much fluid into the system before you get it fully up to temp and that valve opens and purges the rest of the air and I then topping it off one last time. If you skip my step then you may have to bring it up to full temp twice to get all the air out.

You could also try filling the motor with fluid between the motor and valve by removing the hose to the thermo bob. There's no right way but some methods work better then others. The hard thing for you will be not know when the thermo bob is actually opening when you warm the bike up that first time because you don't have a temp guage on the pregen, and I don't think you can get it safely up to 185degs with the fill cap off to watch the fluid drop.
rojoracing53 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 08:41 AM   #33
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
I normally open the radiator cap and burp the system by rocking the bike left to right for a few minutes until I don't see bubbles & the coolant level going down anymore, then refill.

Currently converting this bike into a Cafe Race & streamlining the Thermo-Bob coolant hoses and getting rid of the original thermostat housing.

Will post photos & descriptions in this thread over the winter.
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 09:33 AM   #34
choneofakind
Where's my R6?!?!?!
 
choneofakind's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): None anymore

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Bill, keep the updates coming as you make them.

I've never played with a thermostat before, would it be possible to get the thermostat (housing and all) artificially up to opening temp with a boiling bag of water or heat gun or something of that manner?

I may just have to use the "this is my first time" method modified with the pre-start Rojo-rub and take it for a short ride to get to temp and let it suck in fluid from the reservoir. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...st-time_method
Rojo-rub, can we make that a thing?
__________________________________________________
My ninjette may have fallen off the ugly tree, but I think she's beautiful
Leathers are hottt. Buy some and wear them every time!!!
I am slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 09:37 AM   #35
rojoracing53
Fast-Guy wannabe
 
rojoracing53's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50,

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
When I was doing testing of the stat valves I had the valve in a electric kettle and watched it open at 185degs as the temp was rising.
rojoracing53 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 11:38 AM   #36
Ghostt
in your machine
 
Ghostt's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014

Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix"

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
I've been in contact with Bill/Watt-Man recently he said the Themo-Bob ver. 3 will be smaller and easier to fit on the bike. Below is part of his response to my email dated 11-2-14



Hey Scott,

I recommend it for any bike that doesn't have a factory radiator bypass, and
Kawasaki has made its share of bikes that way to cut costs.

A number of people have done Thermo-Bobs on Ninja 250s. Ninja 250s have a
single hose leaving the original Thermostat housing that heads to the
radiator with ample room, and that's where they mount the Thermo-Bob. We're
doing the new "Thermo-Bob 3" model to replace the "original" as it's 1.9
inches at the largest diameter vs. 2.5 inches for the "original" so that
even gives more room to work with.

After a little study, the Ninja 500 doesn't have enough room to install a
Thermo-Bob 3 in the line between the radiator cap/fill neck and the
radiator, so I haven't had anyone do an EX500 yet.

Bill
Watt-man.com


So I'm saving up my pennies for this in the near future, I hope.

And challenge excepted for the Ninja 500 someday, but first things first.
__________________________________________________

MSF RIDER COACH
ZX-2R BLOG
Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott
I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform.
Ghostt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 01:01 PM   #37
InvisiBill
EX500 full of EX250 parts
 
InvisiBill's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012

Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 '09 Ninja 500R (selling) '98 VFR800 (project) '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold)

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
I've never played with a thermostat before, would it be possible to get the thermostat (housing and all) artificially up to opening temp with a boiling bag of water or heat gun or something of that manner?
Yup. And if you crank your heat gun way up instead of down, you can overextend the plunger to the point where it takes some massaging to get it back in. =)

This was with my heat gun at 200F.


http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topi...html#msg947057 has more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
And challenge excepted for the Ninja 500 someday, but first things first.
I'm working on modifying an EX500 thermostat housing to have a bypass underneath the thermostat. Someone else on the forum made one by putting a T fitting in the temp sender port. The annoying part is that the 500 has individual lines from the cylinders coming into two ports on the housing, so you can't splice anything in before that (without a lot of other mod work).
__________________________________________________

*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. ***
InvisiBill is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 01:09 PM   #38
Ghostt
in your machine
 
Ghostt's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014

Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix"

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
Quote:
you can overextend the plunger to the point where it takes some massaging to get it back in. =)
I told my prom date the same exact thing




Quote:
I'm working on modifying an EX500 thermostat housing to have a bypass underneath the thermostat. Someone else on the forum made one by putting a T fitting in the temp sender port. The annoying part is that the 500 has individual lines from the cylinders coming into two ports on the housing, so you can't splice anything in before that (without a lot of other mod work).]
Yeah I was noticing that
__________________________________________________

MSF RIDER COACH
ZX-2R BLOG
Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott
I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform.

Last futzed with by Ghostt; December 30th, 2014 at 09:30 PM.
Ghostt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 01:24 PM   #39
choneofakind
Where's my R6?!?!?!
 
choneofakind's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): None anymore

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Lol at Billl.

If I could use a hear gun to open the stat on command, I could do the regular old method of purging air out without having to get full operating temp.
__________________________________________________
My ninjette may have fallen off the ugly tree, but I think she's beautiful
Leathers are hottt. Buy some and wear them every time!!!
I am slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 30th, 2014, 01:55 PM   #40
exploring/carolina
ninjette.org guru
 
exploring/carolina's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Bill, keep the updates coming as you make them.

I've never played with a thermostat before, would it be possible to get the thermostat (housing and all) artificially up to opening temp with a boiling bag of water or heat gun or something of that manner?

Rojo-rub, can we make that a thing?
Will do on the updates!

Guess since there is a Thermo-Bob, should not be a problem having Rojo-rub-a-bob, too!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
We're doing the new "Thermo-Bob 3" model to replace the "original" as it's 1.9
inches at the largest diameter vs. 2.5 inches for the "original" so that
even gives more room to work with.
That's a good idea for a smaller Thermo-Bob! I may need to get one for another bike, will see....
exploring/carolina is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Do I Need To Do? Installation Help ilovejesus 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 5 May 7th, 2018 09:08 AM
Air Box Installation on 2007 Ninja burnrich 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 14 January 27th, 2014 04:41 PM
Installing Thermo-bob on NewGen 250 rojoracing53 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 8 December 8th, 2012 11:11 PM
2011 Ninja LED Installation Issues :/ Xaxon 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 5 February 24th, 2012 08:34 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:29 AM.


remote server monitor
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are Copyright 2016 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.