Yamaha YZF R3 next month!!

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Bubba

You can just install a slipper clutch on most bikes.

you can, but they are not particularly cheap

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I'd rather have a slipper clutch than ABS, I love how perfect every single downshift is no matter how bad I mess it up. I've intentionally tried to blip poorly and it still results in a near perfect revmatch so long as you blip at all

Or... you could just learn to do it right in the first place....

[alex.s]

went back to the dealer today. it was pretty empty. asked them about the R3... "r1?" ... "no r3." ... "the r1 is the biggest yamaha we have. but we don't carry any H3s right now. we're getting more R1s in next month though" ... "... no.... the R3... the little one." -- "sorry man i donno."

WTF YOU SELL BIKES FOR A LIVING AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT AN R3 IS?!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Adding preload is the only way to adjust the sag. All after market preload adjusters do is have a variable spacer atop the spring. Sag should be set properly, not willy nilly, but increase spring rates and you have to worry about the rebound dampening.
For riders above 160-170lbs, a small spacer does wonders.

you're explaining how preload works to me? really?


The reason adding preload in this case is 'willy nilly' is because you're throwing adjustments at a problem, despite not knowing what you're doing. I call that willy nilly because it's just taking shots in the dark.

Preload does nothing for the stiffness of the front end because the spring rate and damping rates have not been changed. Knowing Ben's track habits, I'd bet he's not looking for sag adjustment.

Keep telling yourself that preload adjusters will make the front end stiffer for riders who are 160lbs or more; that doesn't make it any more right. Put a heavier rider on a bike with preload and you're still going to get a diving nose under braking and a front end that mushes in corners. Sure it will ride the right height, but it won't be any firmer.


TL;DR Don't suggest preload to correct a soft front end.

[alex.s]

speaking of, @choneofakind, when are you going to lathe me those cartridge emulators!!

[choneofakind]

Who'da whata what? hahaha ummmmmmmm no promises? hahaha

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Why not? The 300 is just an evolution of the 250, which has been around a long, long time and is thoroughly sorted at this point.

The R3 is new from the ground up. A true unknown.

The r3 is a beefed up version of their 125cc bike (r25) they've had overseas for years!!
Just cause it's new to US market, doesn't mean it's completely new.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Or... you could just learn to do it right in the first place....

That's what I did, but it's nice to be able to be incredibly lazy and get away with it

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

The r3 is a beefed up version of their 125cc bike

That doesn't sound reassuring...

[cbinker]

seriously a slipper clutch for a 300 cc motorcycle?!?! Who cares!

[alex.s]

i guess the slipper might keep me from blowing as many motors. maybe.

[xorbe]

Just read up on slipper clutch -- actually I'd prefer engine breaking for around town riding! I had a turbo car that had minimal engine breaking, what a pita always having to break for even minor deceleration.

[cadd]

CNET review
http://www.cnet.com/products/yamaha-yzf-r3-2015/

[cadd]

Motorycle.com

Link to original page on YouTube.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

That doesn't sound reassuring...

I don't understand your logic w/ this one.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I don't understand your logic w/ this one.

Maybe it's because the R25 is a 250 cc...

[EsrTek]

Ahhh I didn't even notice my screw up...haha

Still same thing as Kawi did w/ the 250 to 300, so that's why I didn't get it.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

you're explaining how preload works to me? really?


The reason adding preload in this case is 'willy nilly' is because you're throwing adjustments at a problem, despite not knowing what you're doing. I call that willy nilly because it's just taking shots in the dark.

Preload does nothing for the stiffness of the front end because the spring rate and damping rates have not been changed. Knowing Ben's track habits, I'd bet he's not looking for sag adjustment.

Keep telling yourself that preload adjusters will make the front end stiffer for riders who are 160lbs or more; that doesn't make it any more right. Put a heavier rider on a bike with preload and you're still going to get a diving nose under braking and a front end that mushes in corners. Sure it will ride the right height, but it won't be any firmer.


TL;DR Don't suggest preload to correct a soft front end.

While we're misdirecting, stiffer springs will not set correct sag.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Bubba

While we're misdirecting, stiffer springs will not set correct sag.

depending on your weight, proper spring weight will fix sag, if you are heavier for stock springs, then stiffer springs will fix it.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by cadd

Motorycle.com

Link to original page on YouTube.

These media reviews from Thunderhill are all scripted by Yamaha.
Cast aluminum wheels. Wow.

I'll have to try one this summer.

[cadd]

Dyno numbers for all 4 bikes. Except for the CBR, each bike best each other by 3HP.


http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/20...ison-dyno-test

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by cbinker

depending on your weight, proper spring weight will fix sag, if you are heavier for stock springs, then stiffer springs will fix it.

setting sag with spring rate is at the sacrifice of your total travel distance.

the point of suspension is to move. you have a limited amount of travel in your suspension. there's no point having as much as you do if you never use it. setting the correct spring rate means your bottom outs- the max force that spring will take on braking before the bike flips- comes as close to but doesn't go past your bottom out length. this doesn't necessarily set the correct sags in fact with a correct spring rate for bottom out most of the time its not the correct sag.. which is what setting preload is for. now mind you preload only adds initial pressure to the spring so your actual spring rate needs to be lower than what you want to wind up with so you can add a bit of preload. because without preload or some amazing perfectly lengthed spring (not gonna happen) you get a small amount of play at top out. anyway, you get the 1 rate lower spring and add some preload until the weight of the bike settle the suspension to your desired sag

[choneofakind]

^^^ werd.

...and suggesting that someone add preload to stiffen the front is still wrong.


Isn't the ignore list a wonderful feature?

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by cadd

Dyno numbers for all 4 bikes. Except for the CBR, each bike best each other by 3HP.


http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/20...ison-dyno-test

Sorry, I'd take the wrong sheet for my calculation so it was wrong.
I promise you not to post anymore before I'd trink my coffee

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by alex.s

setting sag with spring rate is at the sacrifice of your total travel distance.

the point of suspension is to move. you have a limited amount of travel in your suspension. there's no point having as much as you do if you never use it. setting the correct spring rate means your bottom outs- the max force that spring will take on braking before the bike flips- comes as close to but doesn't go past your bottom out length. this doesn't necessarily set the correct sags in fact with a correct spring rate for bottom out most of the time its not the correct sag.. which is what setting preload is for. now mind you preload only adds initial pressure to the spring so your actual spring rate needs to be lower than what you want to wind up with so you can add a bit of preload. because without preload or some amazing perfectly lengthed spring (not gonna happen) you get a small amount of play at top out. anyway, you get the 1 rate lower spring and add some preload until the weight of the bike settle the suspension to your desired sag

I haven't really looked, but is the R3 coming with all those adjustment options? A stock 250 only had the pre-load adjuster.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by xorbe

Just read up on slipper clutch -- actually I'd prefer engine breaking for around town riding! I had a turbo car that had minimal engine breaking, what a pita always having to break for even minor deceleration.

It has nothing to do with engine braking, it's a clutch that makes all your downshifts perfect no matter how much you try to screw them up.

honestly it's unnecessary on anything other than a racing bike and even then it's not needed since someone who's racing *should* know how to blip the throttle for downshifts while braking.

Engine braking is when the clutch is engaged (disengaged?) and you just roll off the throttle to brake

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

I haven't really looked, but is the R3 coming with all those adjustment options? A stock 250 only had the pre-load adjuster.

according to the reviews it's pretty bare bones suspension

luckily the sizing matches up with old r6 stuff so someone clever may be able to head over to their local used parts warehouse and get some forks + a shock that fits for all the adjust-ability they'd ever reasonably need.

[Aufitt]

The shape of the power curve means far more than the peak numbers.

That Duke makes 4 more hp than the rest of the world is getting, trying to find motorcyclist online or USA market dyno of it?
KTM claim 43hp, tuned RC390 street versions put out 36-37 (A mate has a well sorted one)

maybe its the Euro A2/ Au Lams spec that brings ours down.

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-con...yno-Pull-1.jpg

and

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...0-imag0761.jpg

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Sirref

It has nothing to do with engine braking, it's a clutch that makes all your downshifts perfect no matter how much you try to screw them up.

honestly it's unnecessary on anything other than a racing bike and even then it's not needed since someone who's racing *should* know how to blip the throttle for downshifts while braking.

Engine braking is when the clutch is engaged (disengaged?) and you just roll off the throttle to brake

It doesn't make a perfect down shift, it just reduces wheel lock when down shifting, it is not a fix to inexperience or weak ability.

[Aufitt]

Originally Posted by cbinker

It doesn't make a perfect down shift, it just reduces wheel lock when down shifting, it is not a fix to inexperience or weak ability.

Wheels don't lock while downshifting.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

It doesn't make a perfect down shift, it just reduces wheel lock when down shifting, it is not a fix to inexperience or weak ability.

I guess, in my experience though it makes everything so smooth every time even when I know I didn't do it perfectly.

Honestly I see it as a bad thing, it allows me to get into lazy/bad habits

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

Wheels don't lock while downshifting.

???

Have you ever seen anyone back a motorcycle into a corner? Down shifting changes the engine to speed up faster then what the rear tire is rotating causing lock up, many riders use that as a way to slide the rear around the corner. watch Moto2, specifically Lowes going into turn one.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I guess, in my experience though it makes everything so smooth every time even when I know I didn't do it perfectly.

Honestly I see it as a bad thing, it allows me to get into lazy/bad habits

It will definitely smooth out little mistakes that could high side a guy on a liter bike w/o the slipper.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

It will definitely smooth out little mistakes that could high side a guy on a liter bike w/o the slipper.

My downshifting isn't that bad hahaha

I've even been complimented for it at the track while being coached at mid-o. Then again I'm sure those coaches see tons of guys who don't even blip the throttle

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by cbinker

I haven't really looked, but is the R3 coming with all those adjustment options? A stock 250 only had the pre-load adjuster.

you adjust the spring rate the same as any other bike. by replacing the springs.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

Wheels don't lock while downshifting.

he means break traciton

[Aufitt]

Originally Posted by cbinker

???

Have you ever seen anyone back a motorcycle into a corner? Down shifting changes the engine to speed up faster then what the rear tire is rotating causing lock up, many riders use that as a way to slide the rear around the corner. watch Moto2, specifically Lowes going into turn one.

If they are locked, its the rear brake, not the lack of a slipper.
learn to match your revs.

Slippers are great on 600's with a massive rev range, for the very best of racers,
but like ABS, its the last thing needed on a 250.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

If they are locked, its the rear brake, not the lack of a slipper.
learn to match your revs.

Slippers are great on 600's with a massive rev range, for the very best of racers,
but like ABS, its the last thing needed on a 250.

so we're going to do this.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

If they are locked, its the rear brake, not the lack of a slipper.
learn to match your revs.

Slippers are great on 600's with a massive rev range, for the very best of racers,
but like ABS, its the last thing needed on a 250.

that isn't rear brake.

[cbinker]

here is a link to backing it in:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/f...o-back-it-in-/