Yamaha YZF R3 next month!!

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

No. It's like comparing a Panigale to a R1, less cylinders, more displacement.

Yeah, that's true. Although there are some benefits to the single. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think singles produce a decent amount of torque.

[caineroad]

it looks like ninja 250, especially the side view of the tail, even the side fairing has the same 'arrow' look to it

[choneofakind]

Lol Benji, you just further proved my point. Did you maybe miss the snarky sarcasm I had there? I was being facetious to make a point for Danny. There's more to a bike that makes it 'better' than just the peak power numbers like he was suggesting.

Yes to everything you said. I really think the current small displacement bikes are as good or better as a whole package compared to the old stuff. This includes useable power, price, suspension, etc etc etc. To make a small bike truly a supersport and spec it with high end stuff and similar design to current supersports (even using an existing parallel twin or single engine) would mean that you would have to pay supersport prices.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Lol Benji, you just further proved my point. Did you maybe miss the snarky sarcasm I had there? I was being facetious to make a point for Danny. There's more to a bike that makes it 'better' than just the peak power numbers like he was suggesting.

Yes to everything you said. I really think the current small displacement bikes are as good or better as a whole package compared to the old stuff. This includes useable power, price, suspension, etc etc etc. To make a small bike truly a supersport and spec it with high end stuff and similar design to current supersports (even using an existing parallel twin or single engine) would mean that you would have to pay supersport prices.

I guess I should have made it clear that I was agreeing with you.

But for sure, even with the RC390 your talking $9,000 if you want the adjustable WP suspension (although it could be less if KTM came out with a RC390R that included the suspension). I could pick up a brand new ZX6R for that kind of money. Not to mention the fit and finish on the ZX6R would be much better.

[choneofakind]

Well then... derp on my part

I misunderstood you understanding my understanding of Danny's miswording.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

To make a small bike truly a supersport and spec it with high end stuff and similar design to current supersports (even using an existing parallel twin or single engine) would mean that you would have to pay supersport prices.

We are paying half price (pricing new), sounds about right for true SS small displacement....
Instead we are truly getting sub standard parts for that price

[Sirref]

Yeah, I don't like the ridiculous brake dive I get on my 300

wish I made more $$$ so I could afford to swap the springs to stiffen it up. May do that anyway.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

We are paying half price (pricing new), sounds about right for true SS small displacement....
Instead we are truly getting sub standard parts for that price

Not following you here. You seem to be correlating price and cost. I'm comparing spec level and price. For example, dual calipers on floating rotors don't care which motor they're paired with. They cost the same regardless. However, the 250 has a single rotor and its a cheepie

[EsrTek]

Just sayin a new 600 SS, w/ all the hi spec equip, is 9.9k to 10.9k
A N300 is 5k-5.5k (5.9k for SE w ABS) - brakes, suspension, swingarm forks, bars all from the cheapo bin and most nearly 20yr old tech.
I'm just sayin for half the price of SS, we are not getting that and we should for these prices or within 3k of 600's.

I might just trade my ninja for the r3 if it has some better 'modern' tech that makes a difference.

PS - Goin off my local prices...

[choneofakind]

I'm still not following. Are you saying we should be getting the full Monty for half price because it's a small bike? Or are you saying that for half price, we're currently getting half the bike?

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm still not following. Are you saying we should be getting the full Monty for half price because it's a small bike? Or are you saying that for half price, we're currently getting half the bike?

this...just making a point really. Not tryin to start any arguments..just IMO

[FreelancerMG]

It looked more like he was saying that we're paying half price but NOT getting even half the bike in performance and spec.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by FreelancerMG

It looked more like he was saying that we're paying half price but NOT getting even half the bike in performance and spec.

Yeah that sums it up better

[thisisbenji]

I'd say your getting half the bike.... I mean it's hard to complain. The market for full on 250 spec race bikes just isn't there. Expect for a few die hard little bike fans, it would be hard to walk into your local dealer and pass up a Daytona 675 when it was the same price as a Ninja 300.

[EsrTek]

There is no way a 300 SS should cost very much more than a current version, not the same price as a 12k Daytona.
Which is kinda the misconception that so many are willing to accept and then pass that info out as fact.

I'll agree on the market aspect, but not the pricing.

Anyway this going off topic, if you really want to discuss, make a new thread.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

There is no way a 300 SS should cost very much more than a current version, not the same price as a 12k Daytona.
Which is kinda the misconception that so many are willing to accept and then pass that info out as fact.

I'll agree on the market aspect, but not the pricing.

Anyway this going off topic, if you really want to discuss, make a new thread.

Explain. I want to hear this. For your reference a RC390 cup bike costs $9,000 and a Daytona can be had for $10,000.

[EsrTek]

:/ bring race specs into comparing stock bike pricing...is not practical nor within the scope of this discussion.
Really think about what you just compared... a race spec Daytona 675 would cost you what??? Sure as hell wouldn't be stock sticker price.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

:/ bring race specs into comparing stock bike pricing...is not practical nor within the scope of this discussion.
Really think about what you just compared... a race spec Daytona 675 would cost you what??? Sure as hell wouldn't be stock sticker price.

Dude.... look up the specs on the RC390 Cup bike... it's a street bike with track fairings. Nothing more. The suspension on it isn't even anything to write home about. All it is a RC390 kitted out with parts for the part catalog that comes with the street bike. You get a bit of a discount for buying it all at once rather than having to swap out OEM components.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

Dude.... look up the specs on the RC390 Cup bike... it's a street bike with track fairings. Nothing more.

Your point pretty easily disproved, http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...390-cup-intro/
while close to it your misleading info to fit your need.

My thoughts where only comparing stock N300 to stock N636 from pricing standpoint. That a 600 SS cost 10k, then half that bike should be 5k.
We have sort of that, a 5k half the size bike, but the components are superiorly sub-par.

I'm not here to get into pissing match vs every bike out there and race spec BS.

[Alex]

It's that spec that drives the difference though, not the displacement. It's why the same spec 600's and literbikes aren't nearly that different in price. Honda sells its supersport 600 for only 17% cheaper than its literbike. Kawasaki does the same, a 17% difference. Suzuki does the same for 19% cheaper on the smaller bike. Yamaha had a larger spread last year at 23%, but it's now even larger as they raised the price of the new R1 by $2K.

If you want anything like supersport spec components on a 300 class machine, a good estimate at scale would be 20% off the price of a 600, at best. (right in line with that RC390 Cup, actually).

[Hero Danny]

God damnit :|

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Your point pretty easily disproved, http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...390-cup-intro/
while close to it your misleading info to fit your need.

My thoughts where only comparing stock N300 to stock N636 from pricing standpoint. That a 600 SS cost 10k, then half that bike should be 5k.
We have sort of that, a 5k half the size bike, but the components are superiorly sub-par.

I'm not here to get into pissing match vs every bike out there and race spec BS.

The RC390 cup bike isn't any more "race spec" than a stock Daytona. Read the spec list.

All it is is higher spec suspension, track bits, and some ergonomic bits. Oh, and the HP is restricted.

[EsrTek]

Good point Alex..honestly displacement wasn't reason for my thought.

Anyway, as I said before, this goin off topic too much and I honestly don't have info to start a back and forth comparisons w/ anyone.

I was expressing my opinion of what we get for 5k to vs what I feel we should get.

[Hero Danny]

From what I understand, for the last 10 or so years kawasaki has had kind of a monopoly on the small bike market (here in the US)... At least sporty-looking 250 bikes. Finally in 2011 honda released the cbr250r and we saw how kawi reacted to that... they quickly released the N300.. now that the cbr 300, R3 and K390 are coming out we should see some interesting reactions from kawi to help prove why you should pick their bike over a competitor.

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I want it all...and I want it INEXPENSIVE.

Fixed that for you.

[jkv45]

Most recent info I've seen on the R3 -

http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/03/1...a-r3-review/#_

The article states they are made in Indonesia.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Most recent info I've seen on the R3 -

http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/03/1...a-r3-review/#_

The article states they are made in Indonesia.

^ I like how the article has the price of the N300 at $5400 but then later in the specs it says ABS not available

[kdogg2077]

Perhaps ABS didn't make it to Canada?

[Byakkotai]

The riding...it has begun.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...yamaha-yzf-r3/

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2015/...track-testing/

[broken neck]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Perhaps ABS didn't make it to Canada?

They just compared non abs price models... Neither the CBR300 is shown with abs.

They compared apple with apples...

[adouglas]

Y'know, the Triumph Speed Triple uses fully adjustable, upside-down 41mm cartridge forks.

Just sayin'.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Y'know, the Triumph Speed Triple uses fully adjustable, upside-down 41mm cartridge forks.

Just sayin'.

its for the drool. upside down forks don't make any technical sense on a streetbike.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by alex.s

its for the drool. upside down forks don't make any technical sense on a streetbike.

I think adouglas was suggesting the possibility of a swap... probably would still only be good for the drool on an entry level chassis, but what good is a bike you can't drool over!

I definitely like that Yamaha put some beefier forks on this bike, whether that will have any actual performance benefits remains to be seen but it sure seems like the R3 has the best sporting credentials out of the 3 Japanese 300ish bikes.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

what good is a bike you can't drool over!

you clearly have seen none of my bikes.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I think adouglas was suggesting the possibility of a swap... probably would still only be good for the drool on an entry level chassis, but what good is a bike you can't drool over!

Indeed I am.

More advanced riders and track junkies can certainly benefit from suspension upgrades regardless of chassis. What intrigues me is greater adjustability...

Not to mention the fact that you'd get dual discs in front.

[alex.s]

you know they make fully adjustable standard forks. you can get them super cheap off old r6's

[adouglas]

You mean full fork swap with triples or just tubes and wheel?

[alex.s]

tbh i would go with adjustable triples if i switched forks...but those are $$$

[subxero]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Indeed I am.

More advanced riders and track junkies can certainly benefit from suspension upgrades regardless of chassis. What intrigues me is greater adjustability...

Not to mention the fact that you'd get dual discs in front.

would it be that simple?

Does the triumph have 2 different diameters on the outter tube for the lower and upper triple or just straight tube? Same goes for the R3?

If you are swapping the entire triple you could consider anything at that point and find the one that swaps over the easiest or like alex s said, aftermarket triple.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by subxero

would it be that simple?

Does the triumph have 2 different diameters on the outter tube for the lower and upper triple or just straight tube? Same goes for the R3?

If you are swapping the entire triple you could consider anything at that point and find the one that swaps over the easiest or like alex s said, aftermarket triple.

Assuming it's straight tubing and the distance between the fork legs is the same, I see no reason why not.

All the stuff that attaches to the forks would have to be dealt with also. Either bring the brakes over as well complete with lines and master, or fab a bracket adapter for the Yamaha bits.... etc. etc.