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Old April 5th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by mgentz View Post
nope. I was up late last night doing the lower end and tonight I should be able to work on it some more. But I'm still paranoid so there may be some rework involved.
Just spray it out with break clean. That will get everything out that can. I would spray It around the crank and let it come out the oil filter housing. Then flush with air and pour oil on it and crank it around. It will be fine.

I am not touching the balance shaft. I just think it does more good than harm.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
1st year ( 88 I think ) had the most cam duration.
Yes. 88-92 have 180 degree duration cams. I looked into this extensively because I was wondering about hot cams.

The part number changes in 1993, but nothing else changes at all, so I'd assume that cams from the 88-92 bikes would act as hot cams in any pregen from 93-2007
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Old April 5th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #123
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OOPS ! Forgot one, can we get some clarification on eliminating the balance shaft? In one thread everyone poo pooed that idea then later said it could be done. My engine will only be for track use in the 6000 to 14000 rpm range.
I asked Falicon about this specifically and was told that we should leave them in our 2 cylinder bikes. I want to say @tubarney already covered this, but basically our motor is very hard to balance and requires an external shaft to assist. A four or eight cylinder can be VERY well balanced without any help due to the position of the crank throws. After much discussion, the thing doesn't cost you much but saves you lots.....I would keep it. Unless you are going for every last HP you could ever hope for...then maybe.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
Just spray it out with break clean. That will get everything out that can. I would spray It around the crank and let it come out the oil filter housing. Then flush with air and pour oil on it and crank it around. It will be fine.

I am not touching the balance shaft. I just think it does more good than harm.
so I got po poo-ed on the kerosene/mineral spirits but the brake clean is ok? man this is tough. Either way, I am going to clean it, then fill the case with oil and re-drain. I will work very hard to avoid the crank and balance shaft as I KNOW those are clean. Also, while the case is filled with oil, I'll spin the crank a little to work oil in there.

All-in-all it's probably just my OCD kicking in and I will be fine. I hope to have the top end on tonight, but degreeing the cams will take some time. From there, I will bolt on all the peripherals to the motor.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #125
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ahh....what about transmission fluid? it's an oil, but it's like water and could carry anything out with it pretty easily?
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Old April 5th, 2013, 01:32 PM   #126
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The break clean will evaporate . Trans fluid is good to flush it with also.
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Old April 6th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #127
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I did a three part flush that I feel good about. Wd-40 then tranny fluid then sae 30 weight oil. Everything came out clean so I doubt anything wad in there but my ocd made me do it.

Even after tossing this around for awhile I realized that nothing will get unfiltered oil and all running parts were clean when I assembled. Therefore I'm crazy but all this makes me feel better as I just didn't want my bearings to look like tubarney bearings.
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Old April 6th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #128
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I got the cylinder and pistons on today along with a bunch of other parts.

An fyi to all: 265 cc pistons and the bore they require make putting the cylinder on 300% easier. The stock bore and wiseco pistons sucked. This whole project started because I scored the cylinder.
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Old April 6th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #129
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I hope to get the head on tonight.
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Old April 6th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #130
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They probably don't come out of the factory that clean !
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Old April 8th, 2013, 07:18 AM   #131
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If you install new pistons. Take your block down and get a fresh cross-hatch pattern honed in. Its really really cheap. Cost me $30. Only took off 0.0005 inch of clearance.

If you want to match weight your pistons. Which you should. Here's where to remove the weight. There is 0.01 grams difference between my pistons with the pins and rings installed.

Your crank is really shinny mgentz, though I am a bit disappointed in Falicon's efforts at lightening it. For what you payed they should have done more. I have been told I can basically get it down to the one in the photo I posted earlier.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #132
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Hows the assembling going Mike? Are you using car oil for your break in? I bought some Brad Penn but I'm a bit nervous about using it. I think I might just go with some cheap old motorcycle mineral oil and mix it with the assembly paste.

Its probably a bit late now, but you should be able to get some parts cleaner from your local hardware. It comes in a little concentrated bottle. Its parts wash and degreaser. Should make about 80-100 litres.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #133
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here's where to remove the weight on the rods. You will need the new rod bolts in because they can weight as much a 0.1 grams different.

Both the small end and big end need weighing. I suggest you take it down to someone who balances to do. It won't cost much. Maybe $50. If their your mate they will do it for free.

I am measuring the weight of the bearings to make sure everything is as even as possible
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:09 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by tubarney View Post
If you install new pistons. Take your block down and get a fresh cross-hatch pattern honed in. Its really really cheap. Cost me $30. Only took off 0.0005 inch of clearance.

If you want to match weight your pistons. Which you should. Here's where to remove the weight. There is 0.01 grams difference between my pistons with the pins and rings installed.

Your crank is really shinny mgentz, though I am a bit disappointed in Falicon's efforts at lightening it. For what you payed they should have done more. I have been told I can basically get it down to the one in the photo I posted earlier.
How much does your crank weigh?

I originally asked falicon about how light they could get it and showed them your pic. They said they would not do that and wondered about how that thing actually balanced.

In the end, I got a great discount (I did not pay list) for my super crank and I am very happy.

My concern for where you lightened the pistons is the amount of load the pin bore sees, but I reckon you'll be ok.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #135
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Hows the assembling going Mike? Are you using car oil for your break in? I bought some Brad Penn but I'm a bit nervous about using it. I think I might just go with some cheap old motorcycle mineral oil and mix it with the assembly paste.

Its probably a bit late now, but you should be able to get some parts cleaner from your local hardware. It comes in a little concentrated bottle. Its parts wash and degreaser. Should make about 80-100 litres.
I got the lower end together. The cylinder and head on. Both sides of the case closed. New tires and non oring chain mounted. Some electrical hooked up. Oh and the motor is in the frame.

I will do the cams and accessories this week. I need to get a degree wheel first. I have pics that I will post tonight.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #136
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here's where to remove the weight on the rods. You will need the new rod bolts in because they can weight as much a 0.1 grams different.

Both the small end and big end need weighing. I suggest you take it down to someone who balances to do. It won't cost much. Maybe $50. If their your mate they will do it for free.

I am measuring the weight of the bearings to make sure everything is as even as possible
Falicon did my rods as part of my process.

Its looking good! Now you need to start assembling!

I hope to be done this week or next.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:36 AM   #137
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How much does your crank weigh?

I originally asked falicon about how light they could get it and showed them your pic. They said they would not do that and wondered about how that thing actually balanced.

In the end, I got a great discount (I did not pay list) for my super crank and I am very happy.

My concern for where you lightened the pistons is the amount of load the pin bore sees, but I reckon you'll be ok.
I'm going down to Duncan & foster tomo I will get you a weight. From the photos. They only removed less than half of what I did. It did take me f***ing forever though. I think they said that it couldn't be done because they where lazy (crank grinding aint fun). I got quoted $1000 bucks just for grinding to make my crank look like that. Plus your piston are heavier (i think) because you have 265cc. This may be a reason.

I was worried about the fact that he removed the weight from the piston there. It should be on the inside chamfer of the pin bore, not the outside. He couldn't get the belt sander in there but, which is what they all use. I don't think it matters, I will ask D&F for a second opinion tomo. It only less than half a gram. My pistons weigh 138.52 grams.

You are a fair bit further along than I am. I haven't even started assembling yet. Waiting for bearings which I get tomo so I can start then, also want to get the rods double checked.

Is there any way to prime the oil pump on this thing?
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Old April 8th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by mgentz View Post
I got the lower end together. The cylinder and head on. Both sides of the case closed. New tires and non oring chain mounted. Some electrical hooked up. Oh and the motor is in the frame.

I will do the cams and accessories this week. I need to get a degree wheel first. I have pics that I will post tonight.
I can't believe your already at the cam install. You are putting my arse to shame. How long are you planning on waiting until you dyno it? I'm pretty sure yours will be the quickest NA we will have seen, I doubt you will ever see one this good again..
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Old April 8th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #139
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I can't believe your already at the cam install. You are putting my arse to shame. How long are you planning on waiting until you dyno it? I'm pretty sure yours will be the quickest NA we will have seen, I doubt you will ever see one this good again..
I am going to turn the motor over with a drill when ready. I am also loading the oil in through the head to get oil up in the cam boxes. This will be part of my final flush and clearance check. If nothing hits than I am ok.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 01:12 PM   #140
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On a side note, with the 265 cc cylinder I had to grind the new stock gasket so that it did not overhang. I also replaced the cam chain.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 02:23 PM   #141
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on your cylinder head gaskets, you're putting them on dry, correct? ie. not spraying any type of sealant or anything like on that on them? They should seal fine due to the gasket "squishing" as the bolts are tightened, right?
Thanks, Tony
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Old April 8th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #142
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You can use the starter to prime the engine. The just don't run the engine until you have pressure.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #143
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on your cylinder head gaskets, you're putting them on dry, correct? ie. not spraying any type of sealant or anything like on that on them? They should seal fine due to the gasket "squishing" as the bolts are tightened, right?
Thanks, Tony
Yes dry.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #144
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updates!!!!

so these pics are from when I was putting the cases together.
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File Type: jpg crank install 1.jpg (174.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg crank install 2.jpg (237.9 KB, 51 views)
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #145
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these are pics from putting the bottom end in the frame
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #146
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these are pics of the motor and cylinder
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File Type: jpg cylinder 1.jpg (230.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg cylinder 2.jpg (191.3 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg cylinder 3.jpg (265.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg left side motor 1.jpg (201.1 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg left side motor 2.jpg (144.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg left side motor 3.jpg (190.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg left side motor 4.jpg (243.1 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg piston install 1.jpg (179.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg piston install 2.jpg (163.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg piston install 3.jpg (193.0 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg right side motor 1.jpg (189.2 KB, 23 views)
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #147
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And these are pics of my custom exhaust flange versus the one that came with the LV system! these things are sexy and if you cannot tell from the pics, they seamlessly flow from the flange to the pipe. The stock ones have a step.
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File Type: jpg custom flange 1.jpg (119.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg custom flange 2.jpg (107.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg custom flange 3.jpg (94.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg stock flange 1.jpg (118.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg stock flange 2.jpg (103.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg stock flange 3.jpg (108.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg exhaust flanges 1.jpg (124.0 KB, 7 views)
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Old April 8th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #148
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Crank weights 4.8825 kg's. About 10.7 pound.
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Old April 8th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #149
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Nice.

I spent about an hour in the garage fabricating exhaust gaskets. Only to learn that the machinist and I made the flanges so well that they are a slip fit. Also lv recommends no gaskets with their exhaust. Works for me...weight savings everywhere!
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Old April 9th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #150
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Nice.

I spent about an hour in the garage fabricating exhaust gaskets. Only to learn that the machinist and I made the flanges so well that they are a slip fit. Also lv recommends no gaskets with their exhaust. Works for me...weight savings everywhere!
How good does the crank look in those cases.

The exhaust should blend up well. That is a quality fab job. I would go back to him. The 2 bros mounts exactly the same.

I never received gaskets with my 2 bros.

With priming the oil system. I got told to remove the spark plugs, put a bit of oil through the hole to make sure the rings aren't dry, then crank it over for a bit with the starter to get pressure.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 03:21 AM   #151
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You can micro-polish your own journals to remove surface rust. All you need is some scotch-brite. I tried to get my balance shaft micro-polished but the grinder could not mount it on the lathe. He told me to do this.

Scotch-brite can also be used to removed surface rust on just about anything. My flywheel especially had a lot of surface rust which has since been removed with no weight change in the flywheel.

Below is the difference between a scotch-brite micro-polish journal and one that has been left untouched. It comes up smooth and shinny.

If you do it lightly (30 sec) you won't change the size at all. I have a mitutoyo micrometer that measures to 0.001mm and it didn't measure a change in size.
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File Type: jpg 20130409_200327.jpg (65.0 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 20130409_200154.jpg (64.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old April 9th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #152
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Here it is finished. It is surprising how well it works.

Some-how it only removes the crap you want without changing the size of the journal. Obviously it changes it on a micro-scopic level, but that really doesn't matter because there are micro-scopic peaks and valleys on the surface of any metal anyway.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 06:54 AM   #153
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Wow, what a beautiful motor, thanks for keeping us updated with your motor build.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:05 AM   #154
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Wow, this is a sweet build. I'm going to have to follow this one.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #155
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How good does the crank look in those cases.

The exhaust should blend up well. That is a quality fab job. I would go back to him. The 2 bros mounts exactly the same.

I never received gaskets with my 2 bros.

With priming the oil system. I got told to remove the spark plugs, put a bit of oil through the hole to make sure the rings aren't dry, then crank it over for a bit with the starter to get pressure.
the motor does look pretty.

My machine shop is Universal Tool in Pewaukee, WI. James there does AWESOME WORK! The flanges slip fit so well that I have ZERO concerns for leakage but the ports will sure flow well. Avoiding all the steps in the exhaust will be key. @Racer x you should look into this for the nitrous.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #156
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The next build will be turbo and nitrous . I will be getting them for the turbo header. Thnks
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Old April 9th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #157
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Got the exhaust on last night. I hope to get the cams in and check the clearances tonight to see what shims I might need to order.

after that, I am going to put in the carbs and everything else in the back of the bike to fill in the holes and avoid dirt intrusion.

I have guessed on the jetting and will do my break in with 108 mains, 45 pilot and the air screw at 2 turns with the FP needle. If anything, I figure that this is rich....but I will need to break her in and then dyno it before I know.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #158
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Are you doing anything with the timing? 108 Keihn will be lean. Or you will be making 29 hp
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Old April 9th, 2013, 04:27 PM   #159
mgentz
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Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
Are you doing anything with the timing? 108 Keihn will be lean. Or you will be making 29 hp
Stock timing at first. I have a jettingpro and will tune it after break in.

I was running 95 mains before and they were about perfect. I think people fall into over jetting the 250. What do you suggest I start with?

I talked to marc at fp and he kind of helped but since he has no experience in this area he said start here and tune from there.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #160
mgentz
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Did you mean cam or ignition timing?
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