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Old October 8th, 2014, 10:35 AM   #81
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you should convert to fuel injection... way more efficient ;-)
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 09:11 AM   #82
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Hey bud, anyway to measure the 250 and 300 rod lengths?
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 01:15 PM   #83
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I can try when I get some free time.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 01:24 PM   #84
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Thank you so much! You should be able to just measure from the bottom of the small end and the top of the big end. The pin will be 16mm and the big side should be 33mm. So whatever that measurement would be add 8mm and 16.5mm to it and we'll have the rod length. Center to center.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 01:28 PM   #85
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@Racer x you don't happen to have the measurement from Carrillo do ya?
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 01:35 PM   #86
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I will have to check
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 03:16 PM   #87
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Hey bud, anyway to measure the 250 and 300 rod lengths?
do you want total length or center to center of big and small ends Shawn ?
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 03:17 PM   #88
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Center to center. There's a few ways to get a measurement but yeah center to centef
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 07:43 PM   #89
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I will have to check
Thank you sir!
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 04:38 AM   #90
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Center to center. There's a few ways to get a measurement but yeah center to centef
95mm is my measurement for the 300 rod... it is as accurate as it can get by an analog tool...
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 05:28 AM   #91
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So the 250r rod should be 97.8-97.9 then?

hopefully someone can confirmt hat.

Thanks bud!
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 03:36 PM   #92
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So the 250r rod should be 97.8-97.9 then?

hopefully someone can confirmt hat.

Thanks bud!
the 250 center to center is 98mm precisely so I guess the 95mm reading I had for the 300 is a 95,1...
what you need for now is a rough guide to wether that will do for your project but you still have the ZX-6R option (at least the '00 mod) to check out... sorry I can't give data on that one... I had some but I sold them recently and haven't kept any info that could help you out... all I remember is that they are definetely beefier on top and bottom end, still using identical piston pin to 250's...
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 06:45 PM   #93
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Awww bummer. Well I found there was a small handful of bikes that had rods with 16mm pins and 33mm big end bores but the longest one was the 04-06 636 which was 95mm so close to that 300. Was hoping the 250 rod would have been shorter but oh well.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #94
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Whats the wall thickness of the 300 block? Both from bore to bore and bore to water jacket? Another question is can you bolt the 250 block to the 300 case? I see that the heads interchange but can the blocks interchange like they do with the Suzuki Hayabusa? If so then the 250 blocks will become much more valuable to those looking to make big (relative) power from their 300s, as the 250 blocks might be able to go with a much larger piston that the 300 and handle more cylinder pressure before issues happen...
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Old November 6th, 2014, 08:34 AM   #95
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Whats the wall thickness of the 300 block? Both from bore to bore and bore to water jacket? Another question is can you bolt the 250 block to the 300 case? I see that the heads interchange but can the blocks interchange like they do with the Suzuki Hayabusa? If so then the 250 blocks will become much more valuable to those looking to make big (relative) power from their 300s, as the 250 blocks might be able to go with a much larger piston that the 300 and handle more cylinder pressure before issues happen...
Very good questions!

@APEmike - do you work at APE? You need to get those guys into the 250/300 market again for us lol.... Head stud kit, cam sprockets, etc
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Old November 6th, 2014, 11:27 AM   #96
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Sorry to bug you again for a measurement but on the 250 do you know how thick the head gasket and the base gasket it?
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #97
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Sorry to bug you again for a measurement but on the 250 do you know how thick the head gasket and the base gasket it?
.08"
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:37 PM   #98
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.08"

Is that both of them together or each? That sounds big?
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Old November 6th, 2014, 01:03 PM   #99
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Sorry I think I had this info before

Head gasket = .10
Base Gasket = .23

This was given to me by @cuong-nutz .... Question for you cuong...... was that .10mm and .23mm ?
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Old November 6th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #100
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@garth285 I do indeed work there. We used to have cam sprockets however they were discontinued as it took 5 YEARS to sell out of a small batch of them. We can make anything for the bikes however like studs and cam sprockets are special batch order. 50 sets minimum... Would need one person or an organized group of people to come up with the entirety of the money up front for the whole batch. I DO have some good news though, thanks to this thread. It means our KT250 cam chain tensioner will work on the 300!
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Old November 6th, 2014, 02:18 PM   #101
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Boooooo lol well as far as the minimum anyways. Well I guess I'll have to make the sprockets to the drill press and slot them!
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Old November 7th, 2014, 04:05 PM   #102
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Sorry I think I had this info before

Head gasket = .10
Base Gasket = .23

This was given to me by @cuong-nutz .... Question for you cuong...... was that .10mm and .23mm ?
That might be it. I cannot recall. I just know the base gasket is indeed thicker.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #103
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Got ya. If anyone has those gaskets and can measure them again please let me knwo
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Old November 10th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #104
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Base gasket .008" or .203mm I'll check the head gasket when I get home.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 11:20 AM   #105
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Base gasket .008" or .203mm I'll check the head gasket when I get home.

Thank you sir! Hey if anyone on here has any spare used base gaskets let me know!
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Old November 11th, 2014, 07:12 AM   #106
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Just wanted to add some cam info:

Last night I measured the cams out of my 09 motor with 14,000 miles on it I believe it was.

Intake Lobe Base = 26.0mm
Intake Lobe Peak = 33.9mm
Intake Lift = 7.9mm (.311")

Exhaust Lobe Base = 26.2mm
Exhaust Lobe Peak = 32.94mm
Exhaust Lift = 6.74mm (.265")

I have seen similar measurements online and I wanted to verify. Im gunna bolt up the degree wheel and see what degree the stock cams are set in at. As soon as I get the turbo all dialed in I want to experiment with dual intake cams.

If the cam specs are what cuong-nutz are correct which is below, the cams will be set at 100/105

Quote:
250/300 intake
open: 36* BTDC
close: 56* ABDC
duration: 272*

250/300 exhaust
open: 61* BBDC
close: 31* ATDC
duration 272*
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Old November 13th, 2014, 07:57 AM   #107
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Well I was going to hook up the degree wheel to my bench motor but its damn near impossible to get my dial indicator around the cam caps! I may make something in the future to get around it but for now I'll leave it until I start messing with cams
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Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:25 AM   #108
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@cuong-nutz when you put the 265 Wiseco piston on the 300 rod/crank, how much clearance was between the crank and piston?
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Old December 6th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #109
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@cuong-nutz when you put the 265 Wiseco piston on the 300 rod/crank, how much clearance was between the crank and piston?
Sorry but I do not recall measuring the clearance.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 02:24 PM   #110
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Hey guys, well I have been messing with my 250 turbo kit and have had a issue getting the bike to rev past 10k.... well I removed the turbo charge pipe and put a stock type of map back in and free revved the engine and guess what it got up to 10k in a heart beat but then it took a little while to get to 13,000rpm. So I at least know it want so rev that high...

I am going to start to dig into the engine but hopefully this question can be answered.

I am wondering if the keyway for the crank is in a different position from the 250 to the 300 on the rotor.

Would it be possibly to see if the TDC mark is different between the two?

I would greatly appreciate any help!
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Old February 15th, 2015, 04:58 PM   #111
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Hey guys, well I have been messing with my 250 turbo kit and have had a issue getting the bike to rev past 10k.... well I removed the turbo charge pipe and put a stock type of map back in and free revved the engine and guess what it got up to 10k in a heart beat but then it took a little while to get to 13,000rpm. So I at least know it want so rev that high...

I am going to start to dig into the engine but hopefully this question can be answered.

I am wondering if the keyway for the crank is in a different position from the 250 to the 300 on the rotor.

Would it be possibly to see if the TDC mark is different between the two?

I would greatly appreciate any help!
Shawn on my FI 250 and 300 they are the same...but if you are using the carbed 250 engine flywheel with the 300 wiring and stuff I think that they are different as is the whole ignition curve...
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Old February 15th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #112
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Yeah the ignition curve will be different but I know what the max timing on the 250s are so the mapping matches that. I'm worries that the key is different on the 300 vs the 250 as far as tdc.

Could be something else in my engine that is the problem though
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Old February 15th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #113
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Sounds like airfueling issue. I think Bruce might of had a similar issue? Are you using the stock 250 carbs?
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Old February 15th, 2015, 05:26 PM   #114
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No. I converted everything from the ninja 300 to the 250. Air fuel is great according to the logger.

Just very odd that it is slow to pick up from 10k to 13k
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Old February 15th, 2015, 10:28 PM   #115
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Old February 16th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #116
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No. I converted everything from the ninja 300 to the 250. Air fuel is great according to the logger.

Just very odd that it is slow to pick up from 10k to 13k
slow to pick up rpm or not picking up and feeling as if towing a car suddenly after 10k ?
because IF the first, I vote for changing cam timing ! if you have chosen the NA set up (100/105) I believe you have probably too much overlap for turbo setup and you have exhaust gas backing up the fresh pressurised incoming air...how 'bout trying some 97-98 instead of 100 for the intake to see how this works ? if it gets better, then that is your key to complete success...
I believe you will have no valve to piston contact issues since you have lowered the CR, right ?
if the second I can't believe you have a mistaken AFR so I would try retarding the advance timing a bit more to see how that works...
come on Shawn, I'm so eager to see that baby blowing minds !!
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Old February 16th, 2015, 02:08 PM   #117
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slow to pick up rpm or not picking up and feeling as if towing a car suddenly after 10k ?
because IF the first, I vote for changing cam timing ! if you have chosen the NA set up (100/105) I believe you have probably too much overlap for turbo setup and you have exhaust gas backing up the fresh pressurised incoming air...how 'bout trying some 97-98 instead of 100 for the intake to see how this works ? if it gets better, then that is your key to complete success...
I believe you will have no valve to piston contact issues since you have lowered the CR, right ?
if the second I can't believe you have a mistaken AFR so I would try retarding the advance timing a bit more to see how that works...
come on Shawn, I'm so eager to see that baby blowing minds !!
Well I started having this issue when I started to tune the bike and I Thought it was possibly a bad ecu but I verified its not, now a while ago I tried just free revving the bike in neutral to see how high the RPM's are going, it was only going to about 10k rpms but that was with the turbo charge pipe hooked up. Now what I did recently was remove the charge pipe and put a N/A map in the bike and free revved the engine, well it went to 10k in a heart beat but it was slow to rev from 10 to 13k.

Motor is BONE STOCK, stock cams, stock compression.

I am thinking two things, 1 I do not know if this engine has ever been into. I wonder if someone jumpped a tooth on the timing, that will be easy for me to figure out.

But what I am concerned with is the TDC mark on the flywheel, I am wondering if they match up on the 300's to the 250's. Wondering if its throwing things off possible.

I wont be able to dig into my motor until later this week so wondering if anyone can compare the 250 and 300 flywheel if the keyways match to the TDC on both.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 08:46 PM   #118
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Well I started having this issue when I started to tune the bike and I Thought it was possibly a bad ecu but I verified its not, now a while ago I tried just free revving the bike in neutral to see how high the RPM's are going, it was only going to about 10k rpms but that was with the turbo charge pipe hooked up. Now what I did recently was remove the charge pipe and put a N/A map in the bike and free revved the engine, well it went to 10k in a heart beat but it was slow to rev from 10 to 13k.

Motor is BONE STOCK, stock cams, stock compression.

I am thinking two things, 1 I do not know if this engine has ever been into. I wonder if someone jumpped a tooth on the timing, that will be easy for me to figure out.

But what I am concerned with is the TDC mark on the flywheel, I am wondering if they match up on the 300's to the 250's. Wondering if its throwing things off possible.

I wont be able to dig into my motor until later this week so wondering if anyone can compare the 250 and 300 flywheel if the keyways match to the TDC on both.
like I told you, carbed 250's has different "reading" positions, however it can't have different marks since cams (lift and duration) and cam timings are identical for all (250 FI,carbed and 300)... I used my '09 Fi 250's flywheel on my 300 new engine after verifying they are identical...
If I am not mistaken it is the crank position sensor that is placed in a different position on the carbed models so if you have kept the carbed 250's side cases it could potentially be an issue
In any case, if you've left the compression stock (which is fine, however a bit high for a turbo setup even if you keep it low boosted) cam timing can be ok but not 100% certain of optimum result...
what is certain though is that with stock comp and even some low turbo boost it is imperative you retard advance timing because -as you probably know- it creates a sometimes soundless pinging/pinking etc which eventually will blow a hole in the piston top... do you recall the turbo busa project of an American magazine which took as guideline a '00 bike that had been turboed with stock comp too, by some tuners and just because they used a '03 bike, which had different advance timing ecu map, suffered the same problems you are encountering until they managed to blow through one piston, melt the rest of them and then realized what needed to be done ?
please Shawn, take very much care on advance timing, any kind of boost requires at least 2* less advance...if that is stock too, it is most probably the root of the problem...
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Old February 17th, 2015, 08:48 PM   #119
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@cuong-nutz

Anyway you can confirm if the yellow wire on the stator are on the same pin?
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Old February 18th, 2015, 09:00 AM   #120
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@cuong-nutz

Anyway you can confirm if the yellow wire on the stator are on the same pin?
I think I mentioned something in here somewhere that the plugs were the same in the later model 250s and the 300s with the exception of plug colors.
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