global warming cased by humans

[allanoue]

Reading threads it looks like a majority of folks believe that global warming does not exist and the weird weather we have been seeing lately is just natural random variability. I do not think that is the case. I think it is very obvious that global warming caused by humans is as close to fact as evolution I. E. 95% proven disputed by religious fanatics or coin dependent.

[alex.s]

there is no argument whether or not global warming is happening. or that human industry is responsible for helping accelerate it. or what will happen as the global temperature rises. these are observable facts.

[Jiggles]

Caused by humans? No

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Caused by humans? No

we output massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere with our manufacturing processes... this contributes, no?

[Apex]

Let's go back to medieval-like times!!!! WOOT!!! Horses, walking, okay...bicycles too.

No more cell phones, just telegrams.

As long as I can carry my recurve bow and a sword, I'm set.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by alex.s

we output massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere with our manufacturing processes... this contributes, no?

Yea probably, but were not the cause. If anything our CO2 production will hold off the next ice age for 1,000 years or so.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Yea probably, but were not the cause. If anything our CO2 production will hold off the next ice age for 1,000 years or so.

Or trigger one by melting the Greenland ice sheet and turning off the Gulf stream.

[JohnnyBravo]

Yes global warming is caused by the human. Most humans wanna claim it's false and do nothing besides continue watching Oprah, or some other amusing show and shopping at Walmart... Long as we are entertained and an buy cheap Chinese stuff all is well.

[250rr]

Question: what caused global warming 10,000 years ago, bringing us out of the ice age?

[JohnnyBravo]

The earth is def at a low point right now, as it seems our country is as well. It doesn't matter how we got there, but trying to be part of the solution instead of the problem is the real issue. I will step off my soap box, or try to and let y'all do as you wish in this thread.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by 250rr

Question: what caused global warming 10,000 years ago, bringing us out of the ice age?

from:

http://www.ibtimes.com/end-ice-age-c...levels-434240#

A change in the Earth's orbit, called a Milankovitch wobble, is to blame, according to the study. The wobble caused more sunlight to reach the northern hemisphere and melted some of the ice sheets, triggering a chain reaction that caused CO2 trapped under the ice to be released very rapidly, raising global temperatures over a relatively short time span.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Yea probably, but were not the cause. If anything our CO2 production will hold off the next ice age for 1,000 years or so.

you are correct in your suggestion that the earth is leaving an ice age and so its gradually increasing temperature. the problem with simply saying that 'its a natural cause, don't worry' skirts the fact that regardless of why its happening, it IS happening. and with it comes lots of issues we don't want to deal with. it is clear that our increased output in co2 levels and other 'greenhouse gases' has sharply increased the rate of warming globally. if global warming is inevitable (it is), and damage and problems are obviously going to be caused by it (they will), then why wouldn't we want to slowly ease into higher temperatures in a way that makes it easier for people to transition into new areas or ways of living? why would you say "nah **** it!" and jump head first into the unknown? large scale planetary changes are extremely challenging for species. maybe we won't survive it if its too quick.

[subxero]

I think it is silly to believe that all the energy we has humans give off as heat does not have an effect on the earths temperatures, I guess the earth is not exactly a closed system and i'm sure heat loss and exchange in the upper most layers of the atmosphere are complicated so in short, IDK but in my experience over the past 7 yrs in MD. I have seen 2 of the coolest summers i have ever experienced and 2 of the coldest winters with record snowfall i have ever experienced. It just seems to jump around and go both ways.

found this

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/0...etting-colder/

[250rr]

Originally Posted by allanoue

from:

http://www.ibtimes.com/end-ice-age-c...levels-434240#

A change in the Earth's orbit, called a Milankovitch wobble, is to blame, according to the study. The wobble caused more sunlight to reach the northern hemisphere and melted some of the ice sheets, triggering a chain reaction that caused CO2 trapped under the ice to be released very rapidly, raising global temperatures over a relatively short time span.

Thanks for the link! Interesting article. Your summary of the article is good.

However, to quote the same article:

Other scientists remain skeptical.

The paper is based on many assumptions without supporting data, Don Easterbrook, geology professor at Western Washington University, told WattsUpWithThat.com, a blog that questions climate change. They assume that CO2 is capable of causing climate changes, even though 95 percent of the greenhouse gas effect is from water vapor. In order to seriously consider CO2 as a causal mechanism, you first need to prove that very tiny increases in CO2 do indeed increase atmospheric water vapor.

I'm not an expert in this area, so won't pass judgement on who is right. I think it is a subject on which reasonable people can differ. Kinda like the endless pre-gen, new-gen battle.

[Aggrotech]

Humans have not caused global warming to start, we're simply contributing to the rate in wich it happens and making it even worse. gg humans.

i always laugh when theres arguments over this nonsense on TV, or when people deny it and say it doesnt exist at all.

[voidrider]

Obviously climates changes before humans were not human caused, but were affected by things such as the Milankovitch wobble and the eruptions related to the Siberian and Deccan Traps. These last events likely led to some of the largest die-offs of life on earth. Even single events like large volcanic eruptions have been recently noted to affect weather systems.

But, what I find particularly hard to ignore is how well tree ring, sediment layer, and ice core data all show a very clear correlation to a warming climate nearly perfectly in synch since the industrial revolution. While it *could* be coincidental, it is highly unlikely we aren't playing some role. The timing is rather damning.

It doesn't help that "global warming" is a phrase that is so easily misunderstood. Gasses that trap more energy from the sun in our atmosphere do cause global temperatures to trend warmer, but the more immediate effect is more energy in the system. More energy trapped in the system creates more active weather, which means more storms, stronger storms, and counter-intuitively, colder more severe winter weather as well.

My thoughts about the climate change deniers tend to cause me feel its almost like the "I have mine, screw everyone else - business as usual" mentality. Less than 100 years ago the idea that the continents moved was ridiculed, and thought "anti-Christian". Now plate tectonics is a proven scientific fact. I have few doubts climate change occurring with a large degree of human culpability will eventually be proved.

Well, to everyone save the sort of people who screamed at Bill Nye when he commented that the moon in fact reflects the light of the sun and does not create its own light.

[alex.s]

http://phys.org/news/2013-05-century...ce-global.html

[Jiggles]

Why don't we just mine giant ice cubes from other planets and drop them in our ocean?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by 250rr

I'm not an expert in this area, so won't pass judgement on who is right. I think it is a subject on which reasonable people can differ. Kinda like the endless pre-gen, new-gen battle.

That analogy would work if 95% of the expert riders liked the new-gen bikes and 5% liked the pre-gen and the 5% all have pre-gens for sale.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Why don't we just mine giant ice cubes from other planets and drop them in our ocean?

I like the idea of putting thousands of giant sun shades into orbit that open and close so we could have warm winters but keep summer from getting to hot. We could just keep pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere with no ramifications. Oh and if the US has control of them we can do the opposite to any country that pisses us off.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I like the idea of putting thousands of giant sun shades into orbit that open and close so we could have warm winters but keep summer from getting to hot. We could just keep pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere with no ramifications. Oh and if the US has control of them we can do the opposite to any country that pisses us off.

[lgk]

What temp is the earth supposed to be at?

[Apex]

I have an idea. Global warming is caused by CO2 gases right? Maybe it COULD have something to do with all the structures that are being put up around the world. Last I checked, a typical roof on a home, asphalt, and concrete do not really dissipate heat very well. They hold on to it. Ever notice how "downtown" in a major city is ALWAYS warmer than the country?

But yeah, it has absolutely nothing to do with that and everything to do with emissions.

[voidrider]

Originally Posted by Apex

I have an idea. Global warming is caused by CO2 gases right? Maybe it COULD have something to do with all the structures that are being put up around the world. Last I checked, a typical roof on a home, asphalt, and concrete do not really dissipate heat very well. They hold on to it. Ever notice how "downtown" in a major city is ALWAYS warmer than the country?

That actually has a name - "Urban Heat Islands" Its a huge factor driving architects and city planners to develop "green roofs" where you have almost park-like spaces with plants and trees growing on the tops of buildings. Rather than it being just a "feel good" project, they actually do seem to make a difference with local temperatures. They are a bit controversial as they don't always work out with cost analysis with their maintenance put into consideration.

[CC Cowboy]

Anyone ever notice that it gets hotter in the summer?

[toddblue68]

Like in times of old, too many people seem to want to jump from hypothesis to fact without doing the work. It was once a fact that the world was flat. It was a fact that the sun revolved around the earth. Why? Because people wanted to believe it (and couldn’t quite prove otherwise)? Followed the herd? Were ostracized by the scientists of the day if they didn't get in line (sounds familiar)? 95% represent the small but extremely vocal lot that will bash anyone with a differing opinion, thus the 5% are the brave ones that voice their differing opinions and get lambasted for their effort. The 95% are only tolerant of discussion of a topic if you agree with them. Disagree and you’re labeled a fanatic (see the original post above).

Have we observed odd weather of late? Sure. Why? Maybe it's just the nature of the planet? Maybe it's the cycle the planet is in. IDK. We're still in the observe phase of all this. Many people today, just like the flat earthers, have a need to be right because it gives them power (to bash those that don't agree with them? impose laws, rules ideals that they believe in and want to be a nanny). Currently, we’re observing that it’s not warming, and hasn’t been for a while now.

If it's a fact, how can it be proven? What complex, large scale experiment can mimic this planet, solar system, weather patterns, oceans, volcanic activity, etc...and that small variable we call humans? Then, change a single variable (no people) to see what if any impact it has. Now, do it again and prove it (what stands still in such a complex system to KNOW what might impact other variables?). It’s called the scientific method. What about the observations from satellites? That data doesn’t show warming, how does that mesh? So many variables.

Sorry, but it's theory and I’ll remain skeptical until proven otherwise. Now, does that mean we shouldn’t be good stewards? Not at all. Reduce your consumption of resources, reuse (harder to do with crappier Chinese products) and recycle is cost effective if nothing else.

[Joshorilla]

Lots of stupidity here.

Alex seems the only person to actually know what's going on, i'm not even going to vote as it's not even up for discussion, it's the concensus amoungst every scientific community that global warming is real and caused by humans.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Lots of stupidity here.

Alex seems the only person to actually know what's going on, i'm not even going to vote as it's not even up for discussion, it's the concensus amoungst every scientific community that global warming is real and caused by humans.

thanks for the no vote

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Lots of stupidity here.

Alex seems the only person to actually know what's going on, i'm not even going to vote as it's not even up for discussion, it's the concensus amoungst every scientific community that global warming is real and caused by humans.

And therefore it should not be questioned by anyone, ever, I suppose.

Lots of stupidity here indeed. Not to say that I don't agree with the consensus, but that statement...

[allanoue]

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/timeline.htm

1971
SMIC conference of leading scientists reports a danger of rapid and serious global change caused by humans, calls for an organized research effort.

1977
Scientific opinion tends to converge on global warming, not cooling, as the chief climate risk in next century.

Climate experts questioned and came to a consensus a long time ago. The general public needs it smashed into their face.

The fact that the Earth is round and its circumference calculated to within a couple of hundred miles happened in 276 BC close to 2300 years ago 1800 years later uneducated people were still thinking it was flat. I think the level of ignorance shows just how bad our educational system is due to politics.

[Jiggles]

Seriously though, if its caused by humans then what warmed the earth from the ice age? And what is going to make the earth go into the next ice age

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Seriously though, if its caused by humans then what warmed the earth from the ice age? And what is going to make the earth go into the next ice age

It does not just happen, there is always a trigger and it looks like it is often different from what has happened previously. Now there are no Sun flare storms or wobbles to the Earths rotation or giant meteor collisions or natural methane releases or unusual volcanic activity, just us.

[Jiggles]

You know the earth does have a ridiculously large scale rotation that causes the ice ages. It's something like a 15,000-30,000 year cycle that changes the earths climate. Has to do with the rotation around the sun. I did a report on it in college in which I claimed that the increased global warming due to humans would delay the next ice age by 1000 years. I was claiming that therefore global warming was a good thing and posses off my professor.

[toddblue68]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Lots of stupidity here.

Originally Posted by allanoue

I think the level of ignorance shows just how bad our educational system is due to politics.

Ah yes, intolerance of those who disagree, couldn't see that coming. Seems we can all have our own observations, vote in the poll, and read any scientific study so long as we all agree with your conclusions. Name calling has always been an effective means of persuading people.

[Joshorilla]

Everyone seems to have an opinion on everything, despite how little they actually know, AND they feel that their opinion is just as valid as everyone elses and if you don't like it **** off.

We have a system nowadays for working out if something is observable, messurable, repeatable and independantly tested and confirmed by peers, it's called science, they (scientists) according to scientific methods all conclude that global warming is real, and caused by humans.

Since I have better things to fo with my life than spend 30 years studying climate science, I tend to believe the many millions of climate scientists that have done so and all conclude that it's caused by humans and real.

Now you can listen to a politician in texas who listened to his pastor who told him the earth will provide and global warming is nonsense propoganda agaisnts the oil industry, or some whack job on the discovery channel, but if you're going by research papers, and scientific concensus, you may as well have a poll asking people if they believe in gravity, they can deny it, but they would be wrong.

Source: http://theconsensusproject.com/#sharePage

[250rr]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Anyone ever notice that it gets hotter in the summer?

OMG. How have I never noticed this?

[lgk]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Anyone ever notice that it gets hotter in the summer?

OMG, is this life threatening?!!!??!!!1!!!

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by toddblue68

Ah yes, intolerance of those who disagree, couldn't see that coming. Seems we can all have our own observations, vote in the poll, and read any scientific study so long as we all agree with your conclusions. Name calling has always been an effective means of persuading people.

Your right, name calling is counterproductive. Lets call the strange disconnect between what the experts believe and and what many laymen believe, disinformation pushed by oil companies, politics, and religion.

[dfox]

Of course its happening. There will always be skeptics, hence the people who still believe the earth is flat. Just ignore them. Arguing only makes their opinion stronger.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Your right, name calling is counterproductive. Lets call the strange disconnect between what the experts believe and and what many laymen believe, disinformation pushed by oil companies, politics, and religion.

Yes, but where do those experts get most of their funding?


I'm sure the source of funding for a given research project by "experts" has no say in how research is conducted, or what boundaries the research is limited to.

I'm not siding one way or another. To say it is caused 100% by humans, to me, just doesn't make sense; but to say we have not contributed at all doesn't either. City temps are a simple example.


I also feel that people are rather stuck in their views. The art of debate has been reduced to "you don't believe what I believe, therefore you are an idiot." It reminds me of a debate I got into a few months back. I merely said a certain cartoon I saw was in bad taste. I never once stated my stance on the subject, I just felt the cartoon wasn't right. I then got called all sorts of names and was told to ride a bike off a cliff because I was (for the most part) stupid for not believing what the guy believed.

Well, how would he know what I believed when I never said what I believed? To me, the people who lack are the ones who think they know everything. Those same people tend to think others are stupid because they don't view things the same way. I'm always open to hear what others say, but calling names or thinking less of them because of it, well that isn't me.

People are so biased when it comes to politics and such, I like to dodge it if I can.

>last post in this thread for me!<