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Old September 17th, 2021, 04:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Take picture of left & right cases of your engine
There you go. I gotta degrease the underside tomorrow morning.
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Old September 18th, 2021, 12:15 PM   #42
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broken bolt in gas tank mount is removed. have to replace metal bracket and rivets and nuts and bolts for battery tray because a bolt is just too seized and i didnt wanna use a torch right next to plastic if i didnt have to.

engine is degreased, took off the front sprocket cover but didnt take off the starter, so that spot is still dirty, and so is the rear of the engine covered by the swingarm and kickstand. kicked over the bucket of grease and oil and water right when i finished :/
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Old September 18th, 2021, 02:49 PM   #43
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Heh, heh… hate it when that happens!!! At least you got the cleaning done first!
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Old September 19th, 2021, 07:47 PM   #44
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Broke down carb all the way today. Going to pine-sol soak for a couple (4-7) days, then ultra-sonic clean (10:1 simple green? at 120-130F? 5-20mins?), then B-12 and carb cleaner. Compressed air between every step. If I see anything left I'll get some of those welding tip cleaners but I don't wanna for fear of messing up the passages unless I have to. Sanded (150 grit, probably would've been better with 220) one of the intakes down. First 3 pics are the second intake, last pic is the first finished intake.



[completely forgot to sand down the other before soaking in pine-sol] Doing the other [tomorrow] and going over with fine (1000/2000) sandpaper after. Should have all the supplies for gas tank now to do it tomorrow, too. Picked up missing spring clamps for carb as well and blew out the dirt from the hoses.

Had to double-bag everything in ziplock because the pine-sol was leaking, and I assume it'll leak through that too so I also have them in buckets individually and in a big container all together. Didn't soak plastic slides or diaphragms, everything else went in the bath.

Also found some sort of dirt/mud nest.

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Old September 25th, 2021, 10:15 AM   #45
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Float snapped when I dropped it. Also one pilot washer flew away [but I found it].

Carb is cleaned and ready for assembly.

helped
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Old September 26th, 2021, 10:27 AM   #46
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Assembled carb before cleaning.


Separated carb before cleaning. That top metal fitting on the left carb should've been removed because there's a gasket inside there, but I didn't realize that. This is the piece that I talk about with my gasket pic.


Reassembled and cleaned carb. You can see the new hose clamps I put on here.


New allen-head hardware.


The bowl gaskets are waiting until I have a new float after mine snapped when I dropped it while trying to blow on it with pressurized air. There's a left-over gasket for the fuel fitting on the carb because I didn't take it off of one of them. I might take apart the carb again and replace this gasket, but I probably won't. Also, I didn't take apart the air cut valve because it seemed unnecessary.


Carbs and parts are bagged (some double-bagged). 2 bags for carb bodies, 2 bags for carb internals so they don't get mixed up, 1 bag for hardware to hold the carbs together. Diaphragms and plastics were not soaked or cleaned. The white labels on the bags wore away from the cleaner after about 2 days. These were soaked for 5 days.


Pine-Sol being filtered for uses after this.


I didn't notice these gaskets when disassembling, only found them when assembling.


There's some sort of green tape or something on the sides of the throttle plates of both carbs. It's starting to peel off on one portion.


This is the water from half of everything that was cleaned. I replaced it after this. Unfortunately, the cleaner was too small for a full submerge of the whole carb, so I did one side at a time. Everything got 5min*2 on heat at 10:1 water:simple green.


Cleaned parts of a carb


Everything was run through cleaner twice. The order of these pics are Pine-Sol, first cleaning, second cleaning. I can't tell any difference between the last two.


Here's a close-up comparison of needles after cleaning. The first is before blowing off with compressed air, the second is after.


Here's a close-up comparison of a part of the carb before and after cleaning. I used a pick to remove the big pieces of rubber, then soaking and cleaning and pressurized air got rid of what was left. I've found that the ultra-sonic cleaner only works well on stains and surface contaminants and doesn't do a good job at disintegrating large thick things like old gasket material.


Next up is gas tank cleaning (first, so that I can start running the bike) and plastic welding (second). The rubber stopper for the gas tank cleaning is fully trimmed, I bought one that was way too big. I'll take some measurements when cleaning the tank, and am waiting for the black silicon gasket on the petcock area to dry right now.
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Old September 27th, 2021, 08:29 AM   #47
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So... The gas tank leaks out of one of the two mounting holes. Not the dented side. here's what I'm going to do. Also going to fix the dents and stuff while I'm at it I guess.
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Old September 29th, 2021, 10:35 PM   #48
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This is one of the roughest shapes ive seen a bike in. I have been restoring my 07 and it has been expensive and time consuming trying to source the parts i need. I saw a bolts kit on ebay... I finished reading through this entire thread and im in awe of all the work youve done and documented. I have been trying to record my process on tiktok and you have done more just in this thread than i have in my year of restoring... I currently sanding down my tank and waiting on some CA to come in so I can repair some cracks in my fairings. I intend to add eglass to strengthen the parts as well. I am very excited, maybe we will finish at the same time.
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Old September 30th, 2021, 05:30 AM   #49
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I currently sanding down my tank and waiting on some CA to come in so I can repair some cracks in my fairings. I intend to add eglass to strengthen the parts as well.
You may find that ABS cement works better than CA. Since the fairings are made of ABS, the cement effectively welds the parts.
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Old September 30th, 2021, 11:10 AM   #50
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I currently sanding down my tank and waiting on some CA to come in so I can repair some cracks in my fairings. I intend to add eglass to strengthen the parts as well.
Yeah, see previous post on restoring ABS fairings to original condition. You're basically welding crack together with original material.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...13#post1294113

BTW, polyester FG resin doesn't stick to ABS very well. Have to scrub it super clean and treat with acetone beforehand. Then use epoxy-resin. Even then, still won't be as strong as welding crack together with original material. It'll be back to brand-new condition.
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Old September 30th, 2021, 09:09 PM   #51
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I finished reading through this entire thread and im in awe of all the work youve done and documented.
Hey, thanks! Cost isn't really my goal here (but I want to include it because I never see people do that), it's more just to learn on because it's fun , so I'm willing to pay for some stuff if I have to, but prefer to try to fix things than replace them if I can help it. Time consuming can't be helped much unless you already know everything you need, unfortunately. I've been sourcing my carb parts from @ducatiman and haven't had a problem (floats came in today and already put them in, thanks!). Otherwise I use partzilla or eBay. Also I know nothing about TikTok, but would check it out if you link it!

I'm planning on using polyester body filler for my tank, haven't read anything about using fiberglass reinforcement for them, just lots of people chopping and welding sections of their tanks (chopper builds) or using body filler like I'm going to do with a putty or filler primer/epoxy. Regular Bondo seems to crack and shrink over time.

Fiberglass reinforcement of plastics won't do much if it doesn't adhere well if that's what you're talking about. I'm doing the acetone ABS slury danno mentioned and using ABS cement that Jim commented about.

I'm sure your project will turn out great
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Old September 30th, 2021, 11:04 PM   #52
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Hey thanks for that awesome reply, I follow a gentleman on youtube his name is Windy Urtnowski . He restores older model bikes such as ours and when he is taking his time he uses thin CA which he says gets into the cracks and crevasses theres also a thick CA that is on the exterior of the thin, he says abs works well. however he lays down eglass along the crack then adds thin then thick then sands it down... I dont know how well I will do on the molding. but I hope I can achieve making those plastic point mounts.
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Old September 30th, 2021, 11:24 PM   #53
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Smile Thank you

I 100 percent appreciate you letting me know more about abs and applying it. I already ordered the CA in multiple variations https://youtu.be/jo7OOkxVgGw , I also ordered the plastifix, I need to make molds and create plastic tabs that broke off on the side fairings https://youtu.be/wyd8Y8MOj68 .
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Old September 30th, 2021, 11:34 PM   #54
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Thank you for the suggestion, I will try out this abs method incase I need to fix some heavy cracking but for now I will try out the CA and see how it works, I already ordered it and will be arriving next week. I will be out of town this week end and hope to finish sanding down my gas tank, I am going to using a motorcycle shop a few towns away for the inside liner, He will be removing all the rust, and be applying a liner to prevent anymore rusting. it has a lifetime warranty so if I ever have rust in my tank again he will do the rust removal and liner again for free.
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Old October 1st, 2021, 08:20 AM   #55
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So... The gas tank leaks out of one of the two mounting holes. Not the dented side. here's what I'm going to do. Also going to fix the dents and stuff while I'm at it I guess.
yeah, I did that repair recently. PO had previously stuffed JB Weld around edges of bracket to "fix" leak. Didn't last long as gasoline softens it over time and creeps past. I followed that thread and removed spot-welds on bracket. Rinsed out tank and left out in sun for day and filled with water. Brazed over hole with fillet of brass. Then tack-welded bracket back on. Rinsed out water with acetone. Good as new!

Measured bolts and made sure I used short one for that mounting point!
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Old October 1st, 2021, 07:38 PM   #56
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Been doing some small stuff. I need to lookup how to sync the carbs or whatever and finish closing up the holes in the tank then I can run the bike and make adjustments from there. Just need to make sure I'm not forgetting any steps for setting up the carbs. If you see that I messed up on anything for measurements or did something wrong, lemme know! As a side note, doing the valves on the ninja gave me the confidence to do it on my car, and it only took about 3hrs

NOTICE: I've been reading about gas tank coatings and people are split 50:50 as to do it or not. If I do, consensus is Caswell. I'm choosing not to because if I need to then I can do it later, but I can't UNDO it. Everything negative that I hear about them is that they fail and clog fuel filters or carbs after a year or two.

Gas tank filler plug is 1.36in on bottom, 1.96in on top, could be a little smaller on top.

I'm planning on taking the other tab off the tank, sanding the paint all off, solder it back on, then weld or solder nuts with a bolt in them or something all the way up to the height that I need while I body-fill up to the height that I need as well. I'm still trying to run through my head exactly how I'm going to do this or if these are the steps I want to take. I need to get threads out to that distance, though and initially thought of using some sort of thread insert but I don't think that that would hold up well in straight body filler, hence stacking nuts or something.

Anyways, layout of the post will be rear pegs, then spark plugs, then gas tank, then steel stick, then carb adjustments.

I was looking over my bike to see if it had any other problems and noticed that the rear pegs were not aligned. I took a hammer and bent the bracket straight.


Just checking over the bike to make sure I'm not forgetting anything, and while retorquing the plugs back to 9.5ftlb, I had the idea to check the spark plug gap. Not sure how much of a difference it'll make, but I'd rather have everything be right than start chasing problems from the beginning. They were both too close of a gap. Forum said 0.6-0.7mm was stock so I set it to 0.65mm.



The $5 spot weld cutter drillbit that I got from harbor freight absolutely sucks. I'm going to have to get a second one to do the other side. I was really careful to not go through the tank with the bit and it took forever to cut so I filed the teeth on the bit about 4 different times until they started to break, and I flipped it over. Garbage, but it worked this one time. Didn't wanna pony up $45 for a set that I'd probably never use again.



Time to fill in the sheet metal screw holes! It's all coming together!


Taped off the opening so sanding material or dust didnt get in the carbs.


This stuff works pretty well, and is still definitely usable after using a bit for the lever housing before.


Globbed it on and used a pick to remove any super-excess so I had less sanding to do.


100 grit, took an hour to do both.


1500 grit. Now I just hope it doesn't fall off into the carb or something terrible!


Finishing carb assembly and adjusting. Bracket 1


blurry bracket 2


bracket 3, I had to bend this one into place.


Float height set to 17mm, which is at the 21 mark on this 6 inch ruler that measures flush. Grandfather gave me this ruler and it's often been very helpful. This means it has a depth of 43/64in, which is 17.06mm.




The floats were about 1mm skewed for both carbs, so I tweaked them a bit and now they look to be flush.


Pilot screw set to 2.5 turns out


One washer for each needle jet for stock height
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Old October 1st, 2021, 08:51 PM   #57
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Chain slack is 15.X/16in, which is 24mm. 22-25mm is spec. Looks like I'm fine, except need to oil the chain, and maybe clean if anyone has any recommendations. My plan is just simple green and a toothbrush.


..is this pure coolant? what does percentage of water matter? pretty sure it's supposed to be 50% but dunno why. also dunno why coolant needs to be changed every couple years. I've got like 8 gallons of coolant so if I need to replace it or add deionized/distilled water that's NBD.
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Old October 2nd, 2021, 05:14 AM   #58
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If I do, consensus is Caswell.
Right. Their phenol novolac epoxy is the only tank coating kit I'm aware of that doesn't degrade with current gasoline. I know a lot of guys who use it in fiberglass tanks, and it does the job well.

You may be able to find generic phenolic epoxy cheaper. It's used to line commercial gasoline storage tanks.
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Old October 2nd, 2021, 03:30 PM   #59
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Weird news, I don't have a coolant overflow tank.
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Old October 2nd, 2021, 09:54 PM   #60
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gas tank is soldered, turns out I suck at soldering but it's OK. took like 2hrs bc I've never done it and ran into multiple problems. used the wrong solder, the right solder is old and corroded, the 200W solder gun wasnt working so I used a 100W solder gun (turns out I just needed to sand the attachment points on the gun, works fine now). kept getting flux all over my hands somehow. solder was all way bigger gauge than I needed so it did NOT flow well. used a box fan with a filter attached to it while soldering for the idea of a fume hood.

weapon of choice.


wrong solder that I used first and couldnt figure out why it wasnt sticking to the tank.


right solder, but it's heavily corroded so it's really hard to work with. I made do.


used spare washing machine sheet metal like I always do. snipped with metal scissors, cut to size, dremeled with cut wheel off some excess, hand sanded sharp edges, hand sanded white paint off, smashed it a bit with a ball peen to round it. hand sanded the entire area on the tank for soldering, 100 grit.


cover that puppy in flux


pre-heat the area. it didn't do anything, was totally useless.


So what's supposed to happen is that I'm supposed to heat the area, and then shove the solder into that area and it'll melt on it from the residual heat. What actually happened was I stuck the gun to the solder and dribbled boogers onto the area. never done this before, slathered the area as much as I could because I couldn't figure out how to get the wrong solder off the metal the first time I tried. it worked.


a [sander] make me the [solderer] I ain't


this one was more tricky, didn't do a good job tbh


but there's at least some contact below the surface so that's all I care about.


good as old. all done.


added some bolts I picked up, but got the wrong size so getting new ones tomorrow. clutch lever housing, brake light, sprocket cover (sprocket cover are wrong pitch, right size)


ground down brake light screw because it wouldn't fit



sprocket cover (except wrong pitch bolts...) with more of that classic dirt that I keep finding in every oriface, WHY.




cleaned the gas tank. the works x7 shakes with 3min in between because of the bubble build-up, dump, completely fill water, dump, leaf blower, dump, heat gun, dump, heat gun, dry. still has rust. whatever, I'll do it again later.

old


"new"



petcock was full of dirt. wtf, who does this, for real. probably punctured a gasket in it while using a pick to fish out all the dirt, so it leaks now, might've before anyways. looks like im getting a rebuild/gasket kit for it, but that doesn't stop me from running the engine tomorrow with it. hands smell like gas, even after a shower. leaks from both the turny-part and the bottom-flowy-part. considering that it leaks from BOTH of those, that means it wasn't my fault. It's also missing the reserve filter screen. gasket kit costs $22, used petcock costs $30. no clue about sourcing a petcock screen, though.



I STG, if I find dirt in my cooling system, I'll be pissed.

also test mounted windscreen to cowl, had to dremel the well nuts in half, broke 2 wheels in my face (not very scary turns out), put the nut on the back and the well in the front with a plastic washer, seems like it works fine. allen hardware takes a M5x0.80 nut if I want to replace them for more strength, but I don't see a need yet.

PS, the threads on the other metal tab on the other side of the tank just don't exist. that'll be 'fun', by which I mean I'll fill the area with some steel stick and cut threads again. yay.

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Old October 2nd, 2021, 10:05 PM   #61
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Weird news, I don't have a coolant overflow tank.
is it one of these?



I'll send it out Monday with your bar and left footpeg. Sorry for delay, I've been nursing sick poodle. She finally lost her fight with bladder cancer. Best dog ever!

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Old October 2nd, 2021, 11:29 PM   #62
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is it one of these?
Yes! I just need to check over the bike again and see if I'm missing fittings for it or if it's actually hidden or something weird.

Side-note, on 49044, there's 6 mounting holes. I have bolts holding the pump on in the 5 surrounding the ring, but no bolt on the 6th that's away from the center ring. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to have one or not.



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I've been nursing sick poodle. She finally lost her fight with bladder cancer.
Sorry to hear about your poodle, it's really rough losing a pet and must've been a difficult time. My family gets fridge magnets to remember ours.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 01:05 AM   #63
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thanks!

No way you're gonna solder tank with electric iron. Not enough heat! Silver solder's awesome stuff, used it to build racing bicycle frames decades ago. But it's only for close-fitting lugs and not good for gap-filling. Minimum to get necessary heat is small crème brulée torche. Or small portable Bernzomatic oxy-acetylene unit will work as well.

Best to braze hole shut with brass. Will also need that kind of strength to re-attach bracket. Solder won't do.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old October 3rd, 2021, 08:49 AM   #64
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No way you're gonna solder tank with electric iron.
It looks like it worked already though, unless I'm missing something?
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 09:28 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by BonelessSugar View Post
It looks like it worked already though, unless I'm missing something?
not sure, solder looks cold. Didn't wick and flow into concave shape. It's lumped up and convex sitting on surface. Hope it works out for you, just seems iffy to me. Would hate to see wasted effort.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 09:47 AM   #66
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not sure, solder looks cold. Didn't wick and flow into concave shape. It's lumped up and convex sitting on surface. Hope it works out for you, just seems iffy to me. Would hate to see wasted effort.
Silver solder didn't stick, just globbed on the steel. Didn't know how to take it off so I just left it. Acid core stuck to both, hasn't leaked out any cleaner or water or fuel that I put in yet. How would I be able to test if it didn't solder properly? I'm totally fine with sanding and cutting the area down again and getting brazing equipment to do it right if that's what I need to do.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 10:45 AM   #67
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Brazing requires some careful procedures to avoid making the tank into a bomb. Soft solder works fine for plugging leaks, but as Danno said, it's not very strong if you're going to rely on it to support a fairing.

There are different things that are called "silver solder". The type that is a brazing alloy has a high melting point and requires a torch and brazing flux. The torch probably needs to be something more substantial than a hardware store propane torch, although they can work in applications where the heat doesn't flow away too quickly.

There are some soft solder alloys called "silver solder" that are marginally better than tin-lead solder. If you were able to melt it at all with a soldering gun, it was the soft solder type.

When I've used soft solder to repair a pinhole type leak in a tank, I've used an iron like the upper one, or one like the lower one with a torch to heat it.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 11:44 AM   #68
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Ah, gotcha.

Tried starting bike. Starter grinds terribly, sounds awful like there's not enough oil or something and bearings are trashed, but no clue. Didn't sound like that before when I first cranked the bike before tearing it down a bit. Carbs dumped fuel everywhere. Bike didn't start, kinda sounded like it wanted to for a second at some point in the 3x10sec cranks I did. Airbox was a PITA to put in. No hidden coolant tank on the bike.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 11:46 AM   #69
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No point in trying to start it if the carbs are leaking fuel. They may be dumping fuel into the intake, causing extreme richness.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 11:48 AM   #70
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Yeah. Tear down, tighten everything, replace petcock, and try again. Drained the bowls right after.
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Old October 3rd, 2021, 12:53 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BonelessSugar View Post
Silver solder didn't stick, just globbed on the steel. Didn't know how to take it off so I just left it. Acid core stuck to both, hasn't leaked out any cleaner or water or fuel that I put in yet. How would I be able to test if it didn't solder properly? I'm totally fine with sanding and cutting the area down again and getting brazing equipment to do it right if that's what I need to do.
you can test it by inserting bolt with locknut into bracket to same depth, about 5mm. Tighten locknut into bracket. Then grab bolt with some vise-grips and wiggle back & forth. Increase force to where tank is flexing slightly. Wiggle about 10x. Bracket should hold without any separation.
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Old October 4th, 2021, 09:23 AM   #72
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Tighten locknut into bracket. Then grab bolt with some vise-grips and wiggle back & forth. Increase force to where tank is flexing slightly. Wiggle about 10x.
Broke on the 7th wiggle, solder was too soft.

getting an in-line filter instead of replacing the mesh on the petcock. using K&L 18-2702 via darkhorse to replace gaskets on petcock.

what do I need for brazing?

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Old October 4th, 2021, 08:29 PM   #73
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This kit should do, I built my 1st two chromoly race frames and a tandem with it before getting full-size torche (cheaper oxygen).

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...zing-torch-kit

Oxygen canister lasts 20-30 min, so should be all you need. You'll want tiny flame to work with. Start with yellow MAPP flame at about 100-120mm long. Then gradually turn on oxygen to shorten inner white core of flame to about 5mm. Oxygen knob is non-linear, turn it lots until you feel some slight resistance, then gradually do 1/32rd turns at a time.

I recommend doing same method as you did with soldering and focus on one spot at a time. Aim tip of white flame at metal and wave around 5mm area. Wipe flux-coating from rod on area. When metal gets deep cherry red glow, add tip of brass rod and move along seam with flame and brass. Molten brass will actually follow flame around, so you can "pull" it along with flame as you add more brass. I prefer smooth fillets rather than stack-of-dimes (that's just for show, adds extra weight).






Fill tank with water and rotate so bracket and air-pocket is at top. Use dark sunglasses for eye-protection.

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Old October 4th, 2021, 11:30 PM   #74
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what are you going to do about the coolant overflow? I saw someone use the coldest waterbottle as one on their cafe racer
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Old October 5th, 2021, 08:34 AM   #75
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Yeah, you can use any kind of bottle as long as you get straw to bottom. Then radiator can suck coolant back in as it cools. Second hose at top of cap is for drain when overflow bottle overflows.

I'm sending him coolant overflow bottle along with some other spare parts.
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Old October 5th, 2021, 09:00 AM   #76
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That's some mighty fine brazing work. I've always been interested in building frames but I have never done it, it looks like you have really got a good process down.
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Old October 6th, 2021, 11:11 AM   #77
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Is there an easy way to remove and install the airbox?
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Old October 6th, 2021, 11:29 AM   #78
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Is there an easy way to remove and install the airbox?
No, unless cutting the frame in half and re-welding is easy. I destroyed an airbox removing it once, I've heard putting them back in is a *bear*
Is it currently in the frame? Are you having trouble getting the carbs in/out? Because I have some methods that made this easier...
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Old October 6th, 2021, 09:05 PM   #79
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Lab report is in.



Looks bad, but not junk levels of bad. Sample was taken in the middle of draining, pretty sure gas floats on oil? Should I just consider my oil change a "flush" now and replace it again without ever running it, or should I just replace it next year after ~500mi? I'm thinking the second, mostly to help reduce metals in the oil, and the first seems unnecessary.

Flashpoint estimate that I made up (-40F gas, 380F oil, (170F-(-40F))/(380F-(-40F))) gives me about 50% fuel, which makes sense because I had 3.2qt of 'oil' instead of 1.8qt of oil. Metal in the results does not inspire confidence, which is expected with fuel (especially so much) in the oil since it'd just wash away the oil from the bearings.

I wonder if this would've caught fire if someone tried to run it, since it'd be below the coolant temp. Maybe that's what all the burnt rubber is from on the carbs!
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Old October 7th, 2021, 01:17 AM   #80
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I've got some more ideas for the gas tank tab on the dented side.

I could cut some sheet steel or aluminum, bend the section close enough to fit, weld/braze it onto the tank, then body filler over it. Just not sure if I'd need to fill the space inside with something or not.

Could also tack weld pullers onto the tank and shape it that way...

Either of these would be a lot easier than stacking nuts or something and trying to fill in around that spot with body filler. And it'd give me a surface to weld or braze the tab onto.
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