paying for a bike

[Blackwidow]

Since there was a thread about financing, i thought i'd go ahead and ask this question. When you go out and buy a car, you have some haggle room to lower the price, is it the same for a bike? Can you haggle a better deal or is the tag price the final price?

[kkim]

Haggle away!

[revstriker]

Yup. But your success will depend on the bike of course. If the demand is high, your negotiating room is low. If you're at the end of a model year, you may be able to get a decent amount knocked off.

Don't EVER negotiate by how much it's going to cost you a month (car or motorcycle).

[LuxMundi]

Depends on the demand for the model. Some dealers may sell above MSRP if they are flying off the showroom floor.

Don't forget "non-sticker-price-items". The dealer may be stuck on the price, but they might work with you on future service, gear, etc.

[Blackwidow]

ok, i'm looking at the ninja 250R 2010 model. the black and red one with the ninja thingie on the side. In your opinion, is it a hot item? the sticker price is $4,199....

[kamikaze]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

ok, i'm looking at the ninja 250R 2010 model. the black and red one with the ninja thingie on the side. In your opinion, is it a hot item? the sticker price is $4,199....

I haven't yet found a local dealer willing to budge on price on the 2010 250r or accessories for it either.

[dimeified]

i saw a black/red 2010 the other day, i don't really like it. the graphics are cheesy imo. besides, with looks like that, your boyfriend should buy you your bike

But to answer your question they are in high demand and are tough to haggle. HOWEVER, if i knew about the website "otd motorcycles" i would have printed up a quote and brought it into the dealer to show them after they gave me their best quote. What helped me was when i said "guys on the forums are getting them for $x,xxx otd, can you get me close?" if they say no, then say thanks for your time and visit the next dealer.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

ok, i'm looking at the ninja 250R 2010 model. the black and red one with the ninja thingie on the side. In your opinion, is it a hot item? the sticker price is $4,199....

"hot" is a relative term.

The important question is, how much is the bike OTD (out the door)??? ...after all the taxes, title, accessories, etc. are added to the "sticker" price? What's the "bottom line" figure?

[LuxMundi]

You can get a late model ninjette for under $3k. A couple of scratches will lower the price even more, and you won't be sad when you drop a brand new bike.

If you buy right, you can sell for close to that, and basically "ride free" for months while you get mad skilz.

[Soujyu]

Yes, definitely haggle. When I got mine, I knew this particular dealership likes to overcharge, so I was definitely was going to haggle in order to not pay 6K for the bike.

They were going to screw me over until I threatened to walk out, and then they got more reasonable.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by dimeified

i saw a black/red 2010 the other day, i don't really like it. the graphics are cheesy imo. besides, with looks like that, your boyfriend should buy you your bike

But to answer your question they are in high demand and are tough to haggle. HOWEVER, if i knew about the website "otd motorcycles" i would have printed up a quote and brought it into the dealer to show them after they gave me their best quote. What helped me was when i said "guys on the forums are getting them for $x,xxx otd, can you get me close?" if they say no, then say thanks for your time and visit the next dealer.

lol thanks...

Ya i'm not too big on the graphic either, but i love the combination of colors (black/red)

So what is the average OTD price on a bike that is stickered at $4,199?

[adouglas]

In the automotive world it's easy to find the dealer cost for a vehicle online.

Does anyone know of a similar resource for bikes?

Failing that, is there a rule of thumb?


Personally, I'd buy a recent used bike. Unlike cars, bikes are toys and are often jettisoned soon after purchase. Common reasons are:

- Financial hardship
- Too many toys/just don't ride it as much as I want to (that was the case with mine... it was over a year old and only had 1100 miles on it -- I paid $3000).
- Baby on the way
- Spouse said it's either the bike or me
- Scared the crap out of myself and had second thoughts
- Time to move up (common with 250s).

Take, for example, the GSXR600 - a bike I'm thinking of as my next ride. A 2009 (there are no 2010s) goes for over $10K on the showroom floor, PLUS destination fees. It is identical to the 08 model. I routinely see 08s in good condition with 5000 miles or less on them for $6500-$6800.

The 2010 250Rs are identical to all 250s from 08 on in every respect except color. So you're not giving anything at all up by buying used, except the need to pay more for the bike.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by LuxMundi

You can get a late model ninjette for under $3k. A couple of scratches will lower the price even more, and you won't be sad when you drop a brand new bike.

If you buy right, you can sell for close to that, and basically "ride free" for months while you get mad skilz.

I thought of that, but i figure if i spend 3K on a used bike, i don't know what the rider did to it before hand, how they dropped it or how they fixed it...if i pay an extra 1K...i get a bike that i know is in perfect shape.

Keep in mind i'm new to all this, so someone can pull a fast one over me and i won't even know it.

[TenaciousD]

The list price from Kawasaki is $3999 so you certainly shouldn't pay more than that. There's not a really big margin on a $4k bike (probably about $200), so don't expect to be able to haggle them down to $3k or anything like that. What you WILL want to haggle on is their fees. The dealership I went to wanted to charge around $800 extra for freight and setup. That with tax and tag would have put the cost of the bike at around $5200. I whittled them down to $4500 out-the-door without too much trouble, but I ultimately decided to look for a low-mileage used bike. The next day I found an '09 with 17 miles on it for $3300 before tax and tag.

If you really want to buy from a dealership, look around for '09 models. There are still '09s in dealer inventories and you can probably swing a better deal on a bike they've had sitting around for a year or more. In fact, when I was shopping last month there was (and still may be) a $300 rebate from Kawasaki on new 2009s. Check the Kawi website. The dealer should credit you that rebate.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by Soujyu

Yes, definitely haggle. When I got mine, I knew this particular dealership likes to overcharge, so I was definitely was going to haggle in order to not pay 6K for the bike.

They were going to screw me over until I threatened to walk out, and then they got more reasonable.

This might be too personal, but i'm going to ask anyway, how much did they lower the price?

The car i just bought, i was able to haggle the price down by 5,000$$ seeing as the bike is $5,000 how much can a person haggle with that?

[backinthesaddleagain]

Definitely not the little old lady from Pasadena. Song reference - many won't remember it.

I was surprised to see a dealer with 2009 250R for $3,699 a few months ago. If the dealer is overstocked then better room for haggling IMO.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Definitely not the little old lady from Pasadena. Song reference - many won't remember it.

I was surprised to see a dealer with 2009 250R for $3,699 a few months ago. If the dealer is overstocked then better room for haggling IMO.

i know i sound silly saying this, but i'm so in love with the black and red. i'll definately look into it, but when your heart is set on something, its hard to look at something else. ya know what i mean jelly bean? lol

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

This might be too personal, but i'm going to ask anyway, how much did they lower the price?

The car i just bought, i was able to haggle the price down by 5,000$$ seeing as the bike is $5,000 how much can a person haggle with that?

I was able to get the OTD price of the bike from around $6000 (yeah, what a stinking ripoff) to $5100. I bought my bike when the MSRP was $4300. When you add in sales taxes and the necessary title/license fees, that price was just a tad over what I could have really haggled the price to, but I'm not that aggressive of a haggler anyway.

This dealership was having enough problems keeping the 250s in stock at the time, so I didn't have that much haggling room as I probably could have. About the one good thing they did was not try to sell me a freaking ZX-6R for a higher commission.

[TenaciousD]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

I was surprised to see a dealer with 2009 250R for $3,699 a few months ago. If the dealer is overstocked then better room for haggling IMO.

That would be the $3999 MSRP minus the $300 rebate from Kawi.

Here's the rebate info:
http://www.kawasaki.com/rwr/?cm_mmc=...Rail-_-Landing

when I was haggling with the dealership, they "forgot" about the rebate but when I mentioned it they put it in the deal.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by Soujyu

I was able to get the OTD price of the bike from around $6000 (yeah, what a stinking ripoff) to $5100. I bought my bike when the MSRP was $4300. When you add in sales taxes and the necessary title/license fees, that price was just a tad over what I could have really haggled the price to, but I'm not that aggressive of a haggler anyway.

This dealership was having enough problems keeping the 250s in stock at the time, so I didn't have that much haggling room as I probably could have.

Awesome, you haggle pretty darn good, nearly a grand off...wanna go with me to buy my bike? lol

[Blackwidow]

anybody able to get services thrown in as an added incentive in lieu of lower pricing?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

I thought of that, but i figure if i spend 3K on a used bike, i don't know what the rider did to it before hand, how they dropped it or how they fixed it...if i pay an extra 1K...i get a bike that i know is in perfect shape.

Keep in mind i'm new to all this, so someone can pull a fast one over me and i won't even know it.

If you take a close look at the bike it's easy to tell if it's been properly cared for or not. If it's been well cared for, chances are it was broken in right.

Predictable things happen when this bike goes down. You'll find scratches on the ends of the levers and the bar ends, scratches on the outer edges of the mirrors, scratches on the muffler (if it went down to the right), and quite likely a hairline crack in the fairing near the front turn signal.

If you see none of these and the bike looks new, you should be fine.

But it's your money... if it's worth $1000 to you for that peace of mind, have at it.

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

Awesome, you haggle pretty darn good, nearly a grand off...wanna go with me to buy my bike? lol

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

anybody able to get services thrown in as an added incentive in lieu of lower pricing?

The trick was that I did not "need" the bike. I can walk away with no bike and still be okay with myself. That's how I got them to drop the price.

I would not try to use "services" to get lower pricing. My intention was to not get the extra services, given the reputation of this particular dealer. Because of that, I went to the negotiating table telling them upfront that I didn't want their service plans/warranties/useless . As long as I made my intentions clear and I showed them I was willing to walk out the door, I pretty much held the cards.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by adouglas

If you take a close look at the bike it's easy to tell if it's been properly cared for or not. If it's been well cared for, chances are it was broken in right.

Predictable things happen when this bike goes down. You'll find scratches on the ends of the levers and the bar ends, scratches on the outer edges of the mirrors, scratches on the muffler (if it went down to the right), and quite likely a hairline crack in the fairing near the front turn signal.

If you see none of these and the bike looks new, you should be fine.

But it's your money... if it's worth $1000 to you for that peace of mind, have at it.

besides the look of the bike, do those scratches or cracks effect the bikes performance.

I know i know, i'm asking stupid questions. i'm sorry, i just want to educate myself.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

ok, i'm looking at the ninja 250R 2010 model. the black and red one with the ninja thingie on the side. In your opinion, is it a hot item? the sticker price is $4,199....

FYI... I was quoted $4300 OTD on the 2010 SE. Ended up buying the 2009 SE for $4100. I liked the scheme better but the price started at $5100 OTD on the 09 SE so there is always room for wheeling & dealing!

Also got the first oil change free!

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by adouglas

- Spouse said it's either the bike or me.

"My bike and I are sure going to miss you."

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by revstriker

"My bike and I are sure going to miss you."

LOL

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

FYI... I was quoted $4300 OTD on the 2010 SE. Ended up buying the 2009 SE for $4100. I liked the scheme better but the price started at $5100 OTD on the 09 SE so there is always room for wheeling & dealing!

Also got the first oil change free!

Great info! thanks so much.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

FYI... I was quoted $4300 OTD on the 2010 SE. Ended up buying the 2009 SE for $4100. I liked the scheme better but the price started at $5100 OTD on the 09 SE so there is always room for wheeling & dealing!

I would imagine the 09 took an immediate hit in depreciation that was larger than the 10 would have been. From a financial standpoint, not sure that is worth the $200 savings. But then again, its all about getting what you want.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by revstriker

I would imagine the 09 took an immediate hit in depreciation that was larger than the 10 would have been. From a financial standpoint, not sure that is worth the $200 savings. But then again, its all about getting what you want.

But I would sell my home, dog, and maybe my wife before selling any of my bikes......

Just kidding

Your right, it's all in what you want.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by revstriker

I would imagine the 09 took an immediate hit in depreciation that was larger than the 10 would have been. From a financial standpoint, not sure that is worth the $200 savings. But then again, its all about getting what you want.

Another reason to buy a recent used bike.

Let some other sucker pay for depreciation.

The guy I bought my bike from paid for the depreciation. In the year I've owned it, I've ridden it more than five times farther than he did.

Win-win for me.....

I do often buy new cars, but that's different. I always drive cars until they die. I've owned more than one car that's gone 250,000 miles or more. When you do that, the cost of depreciation is minimal compared to the overall cost of ownership.

But with a bike that you're probably going to resell in three or four years anyway, it's more important. I don't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure the average owner sells a bike after three years.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Another reason to buy a recent used bike.

Let some other sucker pay for depreciation.

The guy I bought my bike from paid for the depreciation. In the year I've owned it, I've ridden it more than five times farther than he did.

Win-win for me.....

So what are you saying.... I bought all my street bikes new

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

So what are you saying.... I bought all my street bikes new

If you've got the money to throw at the dealer and don't mind paying for that new-bike smell, have at it. Nothing wrong with new bikes.

There are other things to consider here. One is class of bike. A new 250 is probably going to be purchased by someone just like our OP... a newb who wants to take care of it.

A new supersport is more likely to be purchased by a young, often irresponsible male who cares a lot more about adding farkles and popping wheelies than doing silly things like breaking it in right or actually maintaining it.

[revstriker]

One more note on haggling over price: Cash is king.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

So what are you saying.... I bought all my street bikes new

I think its safe to say that regardless what you buy a car or a bike, if you buy it brand new, you lose money. the moment you drive off the lot it loses its value. but in return for lost value, you get a brand new item. so its all about personal preference.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

If you've got the money to throw at the dealer and don't mind paying for that new-bike smell, have at it. Nothing wrong with new bikes.

There are other things to consider here. One is class of bike. A new 250 is probably going to be purchased by someone just like our OP... a newb who wants to take care of it.

A new supersport is more likely to be purchased by a young, often irresponsible male who cares a lot more about adding farkles and popping wheelies than doing silly things like breaking it in right or actually maintaining it.

All good points. I find it hard to buy a used supersport for those reasons. The other reason for the 250 is I searched for an SE for months and never could find someone willing to sell an 09 SE for less than $3900. Much rather pay the $200 extra for a new product. Overall I'v ebeen happy buying new bikes but I always buy 1-2 year old cars.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by adouglas

If you've got the money to throw at the dealer and don't mind paying for that new-bike smell, have at it. Nothing wrong with new bikes.

There are other things to consider here. One is class of bike. A new 250 is probably going to be purchased by someone just like our OP... a newb who wants to take care of it.

A new supersport is more likely to be purchased by a young, often irresponsible male who cares a lot more about adding farkles and popping wheelies than doing silly things like breaking it in right or actually maintaining it.

LOL! Yes. No way that young irresponsible male would buy a bike with less than 1,000 CCs. He has an image to worry about!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

i know i sound silly saying this, but i'm so in love with the black and red. i'll definately look into it, but when your heart is set on something, its hard to look at something else. ya know what i mean jelly bean? lol

first rule of vehicle shopping... never fall in love with only one color. Look at options that would be acceptable. sigh.. when you do fall in love with a certain color/model, NEVER let the salesperson know that. You'll never get a discount.

I echo looking at a used bike. The sad fact is, over 50% of new riders drop their bikes in the first 6 months of ownership. Buy a used bike, learn to ride/crash as newbie's will and then later, sell the bike and purchase a brand new bike when your skills tell you your dropping/newbie days are behind you. Learn to ride first.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25913&

No one has mentioned it here, but have you taken the MSF course? How about gear... do you have any? Expect to invest roughly 500-1000 in good/decent safety equipment. More, if you're like the majority of females on this site who seem to be gear/fashion conscious.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I don't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure the average owner sells crashes a bike after three years.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by revstriker

One more note on haggling over price: Cash is king.

For used bike purchases from individuals, sure. But with dealers, not necessarily as true with bikes as it is with car dealerss. A surprising portion of the profit a motorcycle dealer makes is from the finance contracts. They would rather have you walk out the door with a bike on the Kawi card than in cash. They make more money that way, even right up front.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

I think its safe to say that regardless what you buy a car or a bike, if you buy it brand new, you lose money. the moment you drive off the lot it loses its value. but in return for lost value, you get a brand new item. so its all about personal preference.

One thing that is very common at motorcycle dealers which you don't really see at car dealers: brand new models from previous years. While these bikes can be a great bargain (there were some real steals around here last year on 2008 CBR1000s), you do need to take depreciation into account when comparing to a current model year. If you were comparing a brand new 2010 to a brand new 2009 available today, you should consider that with one, you would have the depreciation of a 2 year old bike the minute you ride it off the lot, and the other would only be the depreciation of 1 year.