All about chains

[Sirref]

Alright so I'm looking into switching out the chain & sprockets on my N300 the oem chain lasted a solid 9000~ miles without issues but was definitely worn down a bit extra because I rode it through the winter (salt and all)

I know that I need a 520 chain and I know what size sprockets I want but when it comes to a good chain I don't know the difference between a cheap chain and a pricier one

[Flying]

DID, EK, RK are well-established manufacturers.
X-Rings will run you north of $70.
O-Rings hover around $50-60.
The prices on "cheap" chains are often too good to be true and you can gauge that for yourself. However, researching the manufacturer will give you a better idea of the QC than the price they sell their products for (try Googling "Volar Motorsports" chains and see what you find).

[SteveL]

If you do regular cleaning of the chain it will last many thousands of miles my son has 34,000 miles on his ER6F (Ninja 650) still on the original chain and sprockets.

Steve

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by SteveL

If you do regular cleaning of the chain it will last many thousands of miles my son has 34,000 miles on his ER6F (Ninja 650) still on the original chain and sprockets.

Steve

this is true, however my current chain is pretty done. A large result of riding through salt roads and cleaning it once every 1-2 weeks in the winter which let the salt corrode it a bit. I'm sure I could get another 1-2k miles out of it but tightening the chain every 2-300miles (every time I clean it) is enough of a pain to just replace it

[subxero]

can't go wrong with any of the main players in the chain game.

I'd throw renthal in the mix as well, they are on par with DID

[snot]

I stay away from aluminium sprockets. They don't seem to last very long.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by snot

I stay away from aluminium sprockets. They don't seem to last very long.

Truth, they are more of a performance part, more for racers looking for that little bit of an edge not ideal for general street use unless you have the cash to throw at replacing them

[Sirref]

^ I'm looking for durability so aluminum definitely isn't in the cards

that said, I don't even think the sprockets need to be changed but I'm changing them anyway to match the chain because I like the idea of replacing the full set rather than one part at a time

[sharky nrk]

ERV3

[Sirref]

^ erv3 appears to not be what I'm looking for as the reviews seem to be saying that it wears quickly (could be them but it's designed for racing so lightweight parts may wear faster)

what I'm looking at right now are
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...T.ac=SLIsearch

and the budget option if I decide that it'll last just as long (in kawi green obv)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...T.ac=SLIsearch

both 520x120

I think both of these will last >10k miles w/proper maintenance which is what I'm looking for

[sharky nrk]

Any of the major chain manf. should be comparable in terms of how they last when properly taken care of. And all should easily go 10K as well.

[Sirref]

budget option it is then, it uses a clip so I'll just safety wire it on instead of using the clip

[sharky nrk]

Yeah, safety wire on a clip link should be fine, people do it all the time on the track and there is no more punishing place than that. Rivet link would be "better" in terms of not worrying about, but I actually think a safety wired clip style can be "better" if you use it to take the chain off for better maint from time to time. Just IMHO.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Flying

DID, EK, RK are well-established manufacturers.
X-Rings will run you north of $70.
O-Rings hover around $50-60.
The prices on "cheap" chains are often too good to be true and you can gauge that for yourself. However, researching the manufacturer will give you a better idea of the QC than the price they sell their products for (try Googling "Volar Motorsports" chains and see what you find).

I think most people here talking bad about these chains are taking my reported experiences out of context. My troubles were almost certainly attributable to installation error by so-called professionals. Also, even if they once made bad chains, they changed suppliers and told me that one of the other brands you mentioned now makes their chains.

[Alex]

Are you talking about Volar? Your experiences weren't unique, there are tons of stories online about their crappy quality.

[JohnnyBravo]

Thought you were getin the green chain

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

Are you talking about Volar? Your experiences weren't unique, there are tons of stories online about their crappy quality.

What I am finding are tons of stories talking about tons of stories with a few referring back to my own, where installer error absolutely was a factor (they ruined the master link). I recall seeing one other problem relort. which was long before they supposedly switched manufacturers/suppliers.

[Alex]

It's not just this site though.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=61735.5
http://bit.ly/1nOxt9S
http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...-honestly.html
http://ocmoto.com/index.php?topic=43449.0

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Thought you were getin the green chain

I am, I wanted to thoroughly go through my options first though

[JohnnyBravo]

I think I need a new chain, but it's not salts fault... Gold xring possibly

[tfkrocks]

I've had the DID gold VX2 x-ring chain on both the 300 and the new-gen. The first chain I put on the new-gen was a DID standard chain (no o- or x-ring) and that thing wore out within 3k miles. Definitely don't go that route unless you really like replacing chains lol. Replace it with the VX2 chain and only had to adjust it maybe once or twice the rest of the time I owned the bike. I put about 10k miles on the new-gen while I owned it.

I think I've put about 10k miles on the current chain on my 300 now and it's still going strong. Haven't really had to adjust it. I'm not that great about cleaning it but I try to lube it regularly.

It's not the most expensive chain DID has but it's more than good enough. I've been happy with the quality so far. You will have to buy the riveting master link separately if you want that though. I've bought the chain off Amazon each time and was able to buy exactly the number of links I needed. No need to waste cash on links you're just gonna cut off.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

It's not just this site though.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=61735.5
http://zx6r.com/zx6r/45307-volar-cha...go-figure.html
http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...-honestly.html
http://ocmoto.com/index.php?topic=43449.0

The swearing filter broke your ZX6R link.
Anyway, there is a STRONG correlation between people who can't afford expensive chains and people who will attempt to install it themselves without proper tools or experience.

I am one of those people. I cracked the rivet link on one trying to pull off the Harbor Freight Heavy-Duty Chain Breaker as a rivet tool "Life Hack." No, that isn't the one that failed on me (never used it)! At least I only attempted it after having TWO horribly botched installations from professionals. The failed one was damaged by Stark Cycles on installation when they removed the extra links before installing it (partially pushed a sleeve through with the extracted pin; pinched and destroyed O-ring on plate side of rivet master link; huge gap on opposite side with no O-ring seal). The failed on before that was not Volar. The failed one AFTER that was Kawasaki OEM EK SRO520!

Now, for obvious reasons, people are also MUCH more likely to blame the chain for their own errors when it isn't a known/established quality brand. This is a difficult rut for any emerging quality brand to get through. I see it happening everywhere so I look at all criticism of lesser brands with a healthy dose of skepticism. That's what makes it so easy to spot "bandwagon" mentality.

Look at them case-by-case. For example, the guy reporting the stormtrooper.com Volar case is specifically saying the same thing I am saying!

Originally Posted by Texas Oilman

Well, I ended up replacing the entire chain, it just wasn't worth it to me.

Honestly, nothing went wrong with the chain, it WAS my technique that failed every time I did it. I really do not like the rivet type chains and I'm glad I switched. Bought an EK chain because that's all they had.

The "old" chain really wasn't crappy at all. It was a VOLAR Oring chain, powder coated green. The only weak link was obviously the master link. I believe that I am just too impatient to go slow on the rivets. I put a crack in that I did not notice at first, until it broke off in a chunk. But not a manufacturer defect, just user error. I have used their gains before with no problems. My last chain just started to rust at 15500 miles: again due to user error, forgot to lube for 1200 miles.

At least I pay attention to things when maintaining. It really could have ended badly, which is why I will not use a rivet type again. The ONLY reason I won't use that brand again is because
1. I have to wait for it to come in the mail.
2. ONLY rivet type links available or endless.
3. No separate master links sold individually.

It's still a great chain and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to save money. The price of my new chain was twice the old chain and sprockets. my new chain was only 144.

Originally Posted by Texas Oilman

It sounds like you just read one person's horrible experience with what seems like a defective chain. I read the same thing and he said it happened within a couple thousand miles. I also kept reading more and more ride reports about them. Most of the people who talk so down about them have not used them. If you keep reading, there are many good reports from the chains with no issues.

All chain types have people who have experienced failures due to poor maintenance, improper installation, or even manufacturer defect. My failure was due to MY improper installation. In any case, they would not have so many good reviews from actual customers buying the chains from online vendors, praising the chain for decent quality for an excellent price.

I found another master link and most likely use this chain again. I inspected it thoroughly, checking all the o rings, rollers, and rotating links: all were just as good as they were on installation. The sprockets I got from them are still on the bike, with no visible wear whatsoever. The EK chain I got is decent, but I honestly can't tell a single difference between it, other than more noise.

I don't think that anyone should bash a product so much that has never even used or seen it for that matter. Side by side, the volar chain is MUCH beefier in terms of link height. I do admit, I am not a professional with chains, I don't think anyone is who doesn't make or test them, but I for one have first hand experience, which is something many of you do not.

If anyone likes, I can show you the entire chain for you to point out defects in it. It has about 2750 miles on it, so it's plenty "broken in" to where these would start to rear their ugly heads. I'm not a spokesperson for this company at all, and I don't care what I get as long as it works good and doesn't cost a fortune.

It sounds like the guy on gstwins is blaming Volar for the grit and lube building up in his sprocket cover! I had an insane amount in mine that the chain was dragging through too, but that was not the chain's fault! If it is anything like what I found (dense pebbles glued in tar), it's very likely what caused his O-rings to fail. We know nothing about his chain slack, wheel alignment, etc, which are likely to get messed up by amateurs during just such a job (ask me how I know). The rollers taking bites in the sprocket described both my Volar *AND* my shortened Kawasaki OEM EK SRO520 chain (had to remove links to fit a 38T rear sprocket). I don't see anyone complaining about that particular chain.

All I'm saying is, let's take these reports into consideration while being being careful not to jump on the bandwagon if we don't have *personal* experience. I learned that lesson after bad-mouthing Volar only to stick my foot in my mouth when the same thing happened with an OEM chain. It is cheap enough and I am curious enough that I will be installing another. This time I will document every chain service with a wearable camera. We'll see how it goes!

My biggest complaint so far was the lack of replacement master links for a chain that is very likely to be installed by non-professionals. They acknowledged it when I complained and partially addressed it when I suggested that they at least include a clip AND a rivet type so that people who damage their rivets or lack the proper tool can still install it correctly.

[Alex]

I fixed the zx6r link. Everything isn't built to the same quality. Sometimes cheap is just that, cheap. Saving a few bucks to buy an off-brand chain, or brake pads, or any other critical safety-related component in the hopes that it will perform as well as the known quantities will never pay off in the long term. Buy a decent chain and sprockets; don't futz up the installation; and clean, lube, and adjust it as appropriate. It will last for tens of thousands of miles on a ninjette without a worry.

[Sirref]

and don't adjust the chain to be too tight every other time you adjust it too

I apparently have that habit as well, which would explain why the chain wear felt like it accelerated when I started having to adjust it, now it's definition a dead chain. I think I'll be driving the truck until the new chain comes in, not sure if I'll swap the sprockets though I'll have to look at the price tag on some sprockets and the condition of my sprockets to decide that

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

I fixed the zx6r link. Everything isn't built to the same quality. Sometimes cheap is just that, cheap. Saving a few bucks to buy an off-brand chain, or brake pads, or any other critical safety-related component in the hopes that it will perform as well as the known quantities will never pay off in the long term. Buy a decent chain and sprockets; don't futz up the installation; and clean, lube, and adjust it as appropriate. It will last for tens of thousands of miles on a ninjette without a worry.

You're right, but sometimes expensive isn't justified either. For example, we have had many serious problems reported with EBC (pads, rotors, etc), but no bandwagon because their name is already established. Instead, we got people bandwagoning against presumed OEM-equivalent Chinese replica parts before any of us had even tried them!

[Alex]

No, that's not the same thing. Everything isn't equally good or bad. The information about the 250R EBC rotors was was particularly surprising, and was very useful for folks to find out. The reason it was surprising was because of their history and general reputation, and the company made it right. You'd have to point me to any quality issues with EBC pads, as all I've ever seen is the ones that were made in mirror image a few years ago (which again, the company made right).

Deciding to buy cheap crap just to see if it's really crap isn't a great way to save money when you're talking about chains, brakes, tires, etc. Especially when we're not talking about thousands of dollars in savings; for these components we're talking about tens of dollars at most.

[Sirref]

rule of thumb in every area
"you get what you pay for"

this applies more towards cheap stuff than higher end stuff because there tend to be a lot of mid-level (in terms of price) brands that don't advertise the way some more expensive products do but are more or less the same quality just cheaper because they don't have the advertisement overhead to pay for. I like to buy mid-level stuff in everything that I purchase since it seems to last a long time and is close enough to the top level stuff to where I'm content with the purchase and don't get buyers remorse due to paying too much.

saxophones, guitars, skateboards, longboards, bicycles (it amazes me how expensive these get), clothing, moto safety gear, mechanical keyboards (I type a lot so this was a great investment for me), snowboards, bows, knives, glasses, speakers, cars, bikes, and so on it's all the same. The top level stuff is nice but it's rarely necessary and when it is necessary you know full well what you need through experience with other products that you have gotten within the mid-tier

[rgx107]

Since this is all about chains I want to report that my OEM chain lasted 23000 km. I was hoping for more but it was time to replace it, it had stretched the 1 % that is the common wear indicator (corresponding to maybe 6 mm on the chain adjusters). The front sprocket had shark fin-teeth. The rear sprocket was not as worn but due as well.

I now have an EK MXVF chain, will let you know how it wears.

I don't believe that keeping the chain tight will make it wear faster, as long as it's within the manual's 20-30 mm recommendation. The normal pulling forces on the chain are enormous compared to the tightening force (or the force at rest), if I calculated correctly around 1000 N when riding on the highway and up to 10 000 N at full throttle in first gear.