Low End Problems

xaple · July 19th, 2013, 05:59 PM

Reference thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...021#post714021
(thread got a little off track with un-needed info)

Similar threads:http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble

These guys had the same or similar problems and each thread seemed to die like my last one.

To restate the problem, When the bike is idling it runs fine, with the choke on it runes fine. If you try to give it some gas it wants to die. IF and only IF I can push it past the 3-5k range the bike will run fine. Within this 3-5k range there is a ton of popping and surging of power.

This problem points to fuel delivery but the carbs are spotless and everything is working fine within them that i can test.

The only other option with carburetion is vacuums, which I am unsure of.

Rain was heavy the days leading up to the problems which sends me in the direction of electrical. What electrical problem could do this? I'm running out of ideas and if we cant figure it out why would the 100$/hr mechanic be able to?

Compression is tested, no foreign debris or anything blocking up anything. Fuel rune smoothly through jets. Spark plugs have been replaced.

how can I test for IC igniter trouble
Crankshaft sensor trouble
Ignition coil trouble
I tried searching but got nothing

Please help...

Runeknight95 · July 19th, 2013, 06:52 PM

Where ya at in south Florida?

I was having an issue with rpm return when my idle was too high.

I just looked at your video though so what you asked here was different than what was happening.

Are you letting it warm up before giving it that much gas?
Does it still do that if the choke is on?

xaple · July 19th, 2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runeknight95

Where ya at in south Florida?

I was having an issue with rpm return when my idle was too high.

I just looked at your video though so what you asked here was different than what was happening.

Are you letting it warm up before giving it that much gas?
Does it still do that if the choke is on?

Im in Boynton Beach area. Letting it warm up or not has the same outcome. Some outcome with choke on.

If i can push it past 5k rpm i can ride the bike but one i try to get back down to idle as soon as it passes through 3-5k again it wants to die.

Runeknight95 · July 19th, 2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaple

Im in Boynton Beach area. Letting it warm up or not has the same outcome. Some outcome with choke on.

If i can push it past 5k rpm i can ride the bike but one i try to get back down to idle as soon as it passes through 3-5k again it wants to die.

Im in boynton beach as well , but all my tools/garage are in port saint lucie.
Some = same im assuming typo?

Im not sure but
Are you throttle cables adjusted properly are they actually turning the butterflies?
Did you physically clean the idle ports with a metal wire not just look inside and see some light?

If you need an extra set of hands let me know

xaple · July 19th, 2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runeknight95

Im in boynton beach as well , but all my tools/garage are in port saint lucie.
Some = same im assuming typo?

Im not sure but
Are you throttle cables adjusted properly are they actually turning the butterflies?
Did you physically clean the idle ports with a metal wire not just look inside and see some light?

If you need an extra set of hands let me know

Yeah typo
The cables are on correct and are opening butterflies based on what i could see when I had the airbox off. I Sprayed carb cleaner through every jet hole and it comes flying through every hole it's supposed to.
Just did a ohms test on the crankshaft sensor and came back pretty good.

I have access to a trailer if need be.

If you think you could help out at all I wouldn't mind a third pair of eyes. I'm home bound till this is fixed. My only transportation.

jkv45 · July 19th, 2013, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaple

Rain was heavy the days leading up to the problems which sends me in the direction of electrical. What electrical problem could do this? I'm running out of ideas and if we cant figure it out why would the 100$/hr mechanic be able to?

I'd completely drain the gas tank and float bowls and refill with fresh 87 octane - without Ethanol if available.

Runeknight95 · July 19th, 2013, 08:46 PM

Wish i knew earlier my carbs are off my bike in PSL and id let you use them to trouble shoot if its a carb issue!

quarterliter · July 19th, 2013, 08:48 PM

My guess is water in the gas. As my buddy jkv stated ethanol free 87.

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

I'd completely drain the gas tank and float bowls and refill with fresh 87 octane - without Ethanol if available.

I drained the tank and put new gas, I don't think i can get my hands on ethanol, but I am going to try Ether to see if it gives the same symptoms.

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 08:46 AM

Drain the float bowls. There may be old gas in the carbs. Just because there is new gas in the tank doesn't mean its going into the engine.

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

Drain the float bowls. There may be old gas in the carbs. Just because there is new gas in the tank doesn't mean its going into the engine.

Bowls have been drained, carbs have been taken out and put back around 10 times. cleaned about 4 separate times.

This is one of the reasons I don't think its the carbs anymore

jkv45 · July 20th, 2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaple

Bowls have been drained, carbs have been taken out and put back around 10 times. cleaned about 4 separate times.

This is one of the reasons I don't think its the carbs anymore

I guess I'm out of ideas...

I still think it's carb/diaphragm/fuel related, but I can't prove that.

EDIT: I have experienced odd running problems where an engine will not take throttle or rev properly that were caused by bad fuel, but if you're sure it's fresh...

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

I guess I'm out of ideas...

I still think it's carb/diaphragm related, but I can't prove that.

That as my first guyess but the slides moved up and down when i gave it throttle, and the top end is fine.

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 10:23 AM

The diaphrams aren't cracked or anything? Seems to me that the slides aren't moving. Take the washers out from the carbs it sounds like its hanging up and not allowing more fuel in when the throttle opening increases.

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

The diaphrams aren't cracked or anything? Seems to me that the slides aren't moving. Take the washers out from the carbs it sounds like its hanging up and not allowing more fuel in when the throttle opening increases.

The slides are moving, i took off the airbox and watched them, they have no cracks or slits.

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 11:04 AM

Are they moving all the way? That's what I would put my money on. If nothing else maybe the cdi box advance curve is somehow messed up

Runeknight95 · July 20th, 2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaple

I drained the tank and put new gas, I don't think i can get my hands on ethanol, but I am going to try Ether to see if it gives the same symptoms.

http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=FL

some local non ethanol gas stations

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 01:13 PM

The ethanol isn't going to be the root of the problem its just a good idea. See if you can plug in another cdi to check if its bad.

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

The ethanol isn't going to be the root of the problem its just a good idea. See if you can plug in another cdi to check if its bad.

Yeah the slides moved up all the way. Like I said the top end is all there, if I can get it to rev past 5k with careful throttle maneuvering it will be ride-able. The only problem is sometimes it will not make it past that 5k mark.

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 01:37 PM

There is different advance curve for different rpms so maybe it is electrical.

xaple · July 20th, 2013, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

There is different advance curve for different rpms so maybe it is electrical.

Any idea what part would cause the problem?

quarterliter · July 20th, 2013, 08:31 PM

The cdi box. Its on the tail section under some cover. Its made by denso. If you have a buddy with the same bike swap it out its plug n play. If it fixes it you know what the problem is.

July 19th, 2013, 05:59 PM	#1
xaple ninjette.org guru Name: Daniel "God" Location: South Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326	Low End Problems Reference thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...021#post714021 (thread got a little off track with un-needed info) Similar threads:http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...sensor+trouble These guys had the same or similar problems and each thread seemed to die like my last one. To restate the problem, When the bike is idling it runs fine, with the choke on it runes fine. If you try to give it some gas it wants to die. IF and only IF I can push it past the 3-5k range the bike will run fine. Within this 3-5k range there is a ton of popping and surging of power. This problem points to fuel delivery but the carbs are spotless and everything is working fine within them that i can test. The only other option with carburetion is vacuums, which I am unsure of. Rain was heavy the days leading up to the problems which sends me in the direction of electrical. What electrical problem could do this? I'm running out of ideas and if we cant figure it out why would the 100$/hr mechanic be able to? Compression is tested, no foreign debris or anything blocking up anything. Fuel rune smoothly through jets. Spark plugs have been replaced. how can I test for IC igniter trouble Crankshaft sensor trouble Ignition coil trouble I tried searching but got nothing Please help...

July 19th, 2013, 06:52 PM	#2
Runeknight95 ninjette.org member Name: Derek Location: Boynton Beach Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 cbr1000rr, 2008 + 2012 ninja 250, 06 zx6r (636!) track only Posts: 150	Where ya at in south Florida? I was having an issue with rpm return when my idle was too high. I just looked at your video though so what you asked here was different than what was happening. Are you letting it warm up before giving it that much gas? Does it still do that if the choke is on? __________________________________________________ http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90412 http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/ http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1209877267

July 19th, 2013, 08:46 PM	#7
Runeknight95 ninjette.org member Name: Derek Location: Boynton Beach Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 cbr1000rr, 2008 + 2012 ninja 250, 06 zx6r (636!) track only Posts: 150	Wish i knew earlier my carbs are off my bike in PSL and id let you use them to trouble shoot if its a carb issue! __________________________________________________ http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90412 http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/ http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1209877267

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July 19th, 2013, 08:48 PM	#8
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	My guess is water in the gas. As my buddy jkv stated ethanol free 87.

July 20th, 2013, 08:46 AM	#10
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	Drain the float bowls. There may be old gas in the carbs. Just because there is new gas in the tank doesn't mean its going into the engine.

July 20th, 2013, 10:23 AM	#14
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	The diaphrams aren't cracked or anything? Seems to me that the slides aren't moving. Take the washers out from the carbs it sounds like its hanging up and not allowing more fuel in when the throttle opening increases.

July 20th, 2013, 11:04 AM	#16
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	Are they moving all the way? That's what I would put my money on. If nothing else maybe the cdi box advance curve is somehow messed up

July 20th, 2013, 01:13 PM	#18
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	The ethanol isn't going to be the root of the problem its just a good idea. See if you can plug in another cdi to check if its bad.

July 20th, 2013, 01:37 PM	#20
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	There is different advance curve for different rpms so maybe it is electrical.

July 20th, 2013, 08:31 PM	#22
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	The cdi box. Its on the tail section under some cover. Its made by denso. If you have a buddy with the same bike swap it out its plug n play. If it fixes it you know what the problem is.