Riding in the mountains...experiences and question

[ally99]

Hey guys! I have an experience to share. I've been riding my Ninja for a little over 3 months now, and I continue learning so much on every ride! I'm in love with my bike! lol! Anyway, hubby and I took our bikes to the Ga mountains last weekend. Wow, I learned more THAT day than in my other months of riding COMBINED! What a FUN experience! For the most part, I did really well, slowing a good bit before the corners and accelerating through them. However, I took one corner too fast and ended up scraping not only my peg, but my muffler too! I've gotta say, though I'm not proud of scraping my muffler b/c it stemmed from a mistake I made in not slowing enough for that corner, I am VERY proud of how I handled myself during moment. The scrape lasted for about 2 seconds b/c the curve just kept going, so I had to stay in my lean, scraping all the way. During the whole corner, my head was up and pointed through the curve, I stayed relaxed (I think), and stayed steady on the throttle, thank god! Somehow, even though I was scraping hard parts, I kept calm and controlled. It was truly the most amazing feeling ever to know that even though it was caused by an initial mistake, I kept calm and didn't panic when things got rough. And now I have a pretty little scratched patch on my muffler as my war scar. Yeah!! I can attribute this to all my reading (Proficient Motorcycling and Total Control), my wonderful teacher (my hubby), and yeah, even my MSF instructor popped into my head.
Now a few questions about mountain riding: When taking mountain twisties, do you guys hang off the seat at all? If so, how much? Do you pretty much ride the curve? Or do you do the delayed apex going from outside to inside and back to the outside line of the curve to keep the curve from being so sharp? (I REALLY hope that question makes sense...if not, I can try to reword it).
When going up the mountain and our 250s start to lose power, do you just downshift a gear and keep pushing it? What is the ideal gear to be in going up a mountain?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I'd also LOVE to read about some of your craziest, most exciting, best, worst, etc experiences you've had while riding in the mountains! Thanks all! Ally

[Cali619]

I think that the most common line for a curve is to start out wide, hit the apex and end wide but its not something like a constant cause so many roads have different radius turns or quick lefts and rights etc(corkscrew at laguna seca). Hanging off the bike though is usually to not scrape hard parts and keep the bike more upright from what I have read. You must have been hauling ass into a decreasing radius or something, wtg on not low siding and resisting your survival reactions of panic

[noche_caliente]

Ally, since I live in the mountains, I am dealing with elevation changes on a daily basis - my solution isn't the best for gas mileage, but it works well for me.... I just stay in a lower gear and then I've got enough power to make the climbs - usually on back roads where I average 40-45 mph, I'm in third gear, maybe fourth if there aren't many elevation changes up ahead for a bit - but part of that is because I don't like downshifting in a curve if I can help it, and there are plenty of curves with changing elevation on my way home...

[ally99]

In rereading my post, I realize how full it is of questions. Blush. Sorry. Just answer the ones you feel like. I'd truly learn a ton by reading about the lessons you have learned when you've ridden in the mountains, so just post some of what you've learned if you'd rather not answer my questions. I guess this thread should be fewer specific questions and more general mountain riding skills. Thanks again everyone!

[Cali619]

I find that im doing most my climbing in 3rd unless its a long stretch before another curves in the canyon or mountains. Dont be scared to get that sucker near redline you can get between 40-50 in 3rd and use engine breaking. Helps allow you to concentrate on your turn point without having to shift, and you will still have power to wind it out on exit. Plus if you miss a downshift before the turn you dont want to downshift in the turn or disrupt the suspension.

[NJD022588]

When I'm riding aggressively, I upshift close to redline and downshift when slowing down for engine braking. When just cruising in the mountains, I usually keep the engine at around 6-8krpm, up/downshifting when needed.

You can avoid scraping by hanging off the bike. This shifts the center of gravity so the bike doesnt have to be leaned over as much to complete a turn.

[kkim]

Ally... question for you. has your bike been lowered?

[ally99]

Hey Nick. When you "hang off the bike" in a twistie, do you just kind of slide your butt cheek off and put the weight on the inside leg as you are entering the lean? I'm just wondering how and when to shift my entire body so that the transition is as smooth as possible.
Kim, my bike hasn't been lowered, but hubby did set my rear shock to the minimum preload position (1), which is where a 120lb rider needs it set. That lowers it some, but not a whole lot.
Thank you guys!

[lockie]

Yea...


I've been riding for a couple of months but just hit some nice downhill curves this weekend in Northern Nova Scotia. I went in a bit too fast and learned some quick lessons on handling and breaking.
So what is the best thing to do? I leaned in a bit (nothing hit the road) and tried a bit of the front brake but let it off real quick as it affect the set up? What do you recommend?

[ally99]

Hey Don. From my reading and experience, whenever possible do all braking before leaning and accelerate or at least keep a steady throttle throughout the curve. Correct me if I'm wrong here everyone, but it seems like if you set your speed correctly before entering the curve, you shouldn't have to use the brake at all unless there is an obstacle that enters your path. Then you have to assess and make a judgment call...keep steady on the throttle and swerve? Or try to brake? Again, people will tell you differently, but I would NEVER use rear brake in a curve. If you're taking the curve too fast, lean that baby further. Trust me, after reaching its limits the other day, our bikes will lean SOOOOO much further than you'd think and still be plenty stable. My advice is, if you feel you MUST brake in a curve and you're not at the limits of traction, use very, very little front brake. It will try to stand the bike up, but you can fight it by continuing to push down on the handlebars in the direction of your lean. I'm a noob as well, so I have much to learn, but that's the way I do it, and knock on wood, so far, all is nice and smooth.

[MtnCruiser]

It takes a lot of practice to be able to move around enough on the bike to hang off with out upsetting the suspension but it is probably much easier for someone who is lighter. Just weighting my outside peg and shifting my upper body inside the turn makes a big difference in my lean angle. I've been riding for 30 years and I have learned a lot since picking up our Ninja's.

Next time ya'll are up in the Mtns we should get together for a ride. My wife and I both have 2004 Ninja's. We rode Wayah Rd and Cherohala Skyway Saturday, about 280 miles total. It was hard to believe it was that cold up on the Cherohala in July.

[ally99]

Hey Tim. That sounds fun! We should arrange a ride for everyone who lives in the southeast. Hubby and I rode up to Helen and rode Hwys 17, 180, and 348. It was much cooler up in the mts, that's for sure!
So basically by shifting your weight rather than your whole body, does it just decrease the lean angle of the bike a little? Have you noticed it being a significant difference? Though I'm glad I learned the limits of my bike and kept my head about me during it, I'd like to not scrape anything again, obviously, so I'm trying to figure out the way to handle mountain twisties whether it's by maximizing the lean angle of the bike using my body? Or whether it's delaying my turn-in point on the twistie to make it more straight-lined. Thanks for the reply.

[MtnCruiser]

Originally Posted by ally99

Hey Tim. That sounds fun! We should arrange a ride for everyone who lives in the southeast. Hubby and I rode up to Helen and rode Hwys 17, 180, and 348. It was much cooler up in the mts, that's for sure!
So basically by shifting your weight rather than your whole body, does it just decrease the lean angle of the bike a little? Have you noticed it being a significant difference? Though I'm glad I learned the limits of my bike and kept my head about me during it, I'd like to not scrape anything again, obviously, so I'm trying to figure out the way to handle mountain twisties whether it's by maximizing the lean angle of the bike using my body? Or whether it's delaying my turn-in point on the twistie to make it more straight-lined. Thanks for the reply.

I live about 15 minutes from Helen so usually ride those roads every week, we decided since the weather was so nice that we would slip in a long ride. It would be great to get a bunch of 250's together up in the Mtn's.

Shifting you weight does affect the lean angle just not to the degree that completely hanging off would, but in many turns it is all you need to just give you that extra bit of clearance. Sometime when you are in a long sweeping turn at a safe speed you can shift your weight and see how it affects the bike. You can actually change the lean angle of the bike slightly just by moving your head inside or outside the axis of the bike. I like to watch guys on cruisers, it is amazing the number of them that try to lean their body away from the turn instead of into it.

[NJD022588]

Originally Posted by ally99

Hey Nick. When you "hang off the bike" in a twistie, do you just kind of slide your butt cheek off and put the weight on the inside leg as you are entering the lean? I'm just wondering how and when to shift my entire body so that the transition is as smooth as possible.

I never ride aggressive enough to need to hang off the bike, but I definitely slide over on my seat and lean my body into the turn. I do this right as I'm entering the turn, or even right before. You dont want to be moving around, braking, or accelerating in a turn. Keeping everything constant is the safest.

[gitoy]

ally...nice going staying on your lean and not panicking......yes this 250 can lean but only experience can tell when you need to hang off to keep from scraping parts...i remember when first starting out at the switchbacks i run wide and kept the lean and started scraping peg and muffler just like you...newbies should take note that the 250 with sport tires can make a corner by leaning more and as long as one keeps the speed and not use the brake

i have 44,000 miles on two 250s and 30,000 are on twisties and canyons...there is an article about the "pace" if you haven't read it already...

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9...ing/index.html

i also have a switchbacks video at an easy 40 mph turns...did not need to hang off...

Link to original page on Vimeo.

[Nny]

I am so jealous of you guys that live in that area. I wish my family, freinds and job could just pick up and move. *SIGH*

Anyway...
I keep my RPM's at least 7k going into a turn and I throttle hard through the turn. I keep to the outside on entry, then to the inside at the apex and back to the outside on exit. I swing my knees and elbows into the turn, pointing to the apex (outside limbs just stay against the bike). If I think I am comming in fast I do get my butt off the seat. How much depends on how fast. I usually duck my head behind the mirror while I am looking into the turn. I also put a good amount of weight on the inside peg so there is no weight on the handlebars. I do all my braking before the turn.

Most of this I learned on my cruiser because it doesn't have the lean angle and I wanted more out of turns.

Now, most people will say that kind of riding needs to stay at track days. I do agree with it but if you are like me and the closest thing is a go kart track about 3 hours away that host motard races, and maybe if you get in good with them they will let you ride their track...

Then again..this is how I ride and how I am comfortable. If I ever run into a instructor - he/she may tell me I am doing it all wrong.

P.S. In my defense, I do this on well known roads and do a initial scan of the area before I abuse the turns. I also keep it close to the speed limit.

Mtncruiser - I've seen those guys around here too. Scary stuff. I just keep my distance or pass them first dotted line I get.



Worst moments? - Going around blind turns to find a car driving in your lane. Take them slow and stay close to outside of the lane.

Best? Creeping up on some sport bike riders in the twisties....on my cruiser.
Feeling the Ninja compress into a turn.
A situation like yours. Touched my footpeg to the ground on the Ninja in a turn for the first time two weeks ago. Knew where I was and adjusted for the rest of the turn.

[Nny]

Gitoy, I never get tired of seeing that. During the winter months I will be book marking that as a favorite and weeping while I watch it.
Yours and KKim's

[ally99]

Thank you all for the helpful comments. Based upon your responses, it sounds like when riding mountain roads, the best strategy is to enter the curve slowly, and when time to initiate the lean, it's helpful to hang off the bike (or at least shift your weight a bit) so that the bike doesn't have to lean so far. This keeps you from using all your available traction since the bike is more upright and gives you some reserve lean for an unforeseen emergency requiring more traction. Let me know if I've misunderstood, but this is what I understand from the constructive posts on this thread. Thanks all! I hope this weather in your area this weekend is beautiful! Happy riding! Ally

[Alex]

I think you're on the right track. There are a bunch of decent books on motorcycling skills in this thread. One thing that may not be apparent early on is that the more forceful a rider initiates a turn, the less max lean angle they have to use, even at the same corner speed.

I.E., say that at 60 mph, a particular constant radius corner requires a lean angle of 30 degrees through the entire curve. A rider travelling at the exact same speed who tentatively turns in to that corner and leans only 20 degrees through the first part of the corner, may have to lean at 40 degrees later in the corner in order to travel a similar line. The entire purpose of leaning off and to some extent, line choice, is to minimize lean angle and leave as much in reserve as possible for a given corner speed. Scraping hard parts on the street isn't for the faint of heart, and IMO means the the rider needs to very quickly figure out what's going wrong. It's possible that they are just going too fast for the conditions on the street, but I think in most cases a little better technique can keep the hard parts off the ground. Even at, umm, "elevated" speeds.