clutchless shifting?

Hokie11 · July 28th, 2009, 06:03 AM

I thought I saw a thread on this, but I can't seem to find it..

I assumed it was bad to not use the clutch when shifting, so I always use it, but then a few times by accident (since im still trying to get use to it), I shifted without pulling clutch at all... and it seemed fine.. I didn't hear any irregularities or grinding, but once again, I only put 10 miles on my first bike, so I am not accustomed to all the expected noises

What can I expect if I don't use the clutch? Should I even be doing that at all? Will it hurt the system?

oh and another thing... i can kick it into first gear without even touching the clutch.. at a standstill... is that normal?

rockNroll · July 28th, 2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokie11

What can I expect if I don't use the clutch? Should I even be doing that at all? Will it hurt the system?

oh and another thing... i can kick it into first gear without even touching the clutch.. at a standstill... is that normal?

There's lots of debate on this subject and I raced with guys that never used the clutch to up shift. I sometimes up shift with out the clutch and if you're doing it and it feels nice and smooth, I say rock-on!

As far as kicking it down into first without touching the clutch.. at a stand still... err... Doesn't the bike jump forward and then stall?

Cali619 · July 28th, 2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokie11

i can kick it into first gear without even touching the clutch.. at a standstill... is that normal?

not normal at all, if you do this your bike should stall...

HKr1 · July 28th, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokie11

oh and another thing... i can kick it into first gear without even touching the clutch.. at a standstill... is that normal?

Yeah, thats normal. But not really a normal thing to be doing.

noche_caliente · July 28th, 2009, 09:58 AM

bad idea- there's a clutch on your bike for a reason, and it's not decoration....

Hokie11 · July 28th, 2009, 10:06 AM

right, it does stall, but i was use to how in a car, you cant shift gears at all without engaging the clutch... so i wanted to make sure my cable wasnt f'd up

Cali619 · July 28th, 2009, 10:16 AM

I have rarely used clutch-less up shifting but have done it to get going from a dead stop in a hurry(accelerating from a light when lane split), always clutch to downshift since the clutch isn't a slipper clutch.

AnarchoMoltov · July 28th, 2009, 10:45 AM

I was a semi truck driver b4 I got layed off...Truckers float gears all the time..
If your engine is at the right speed, rpm's, you can switch gears easily without using the clutch...If your engine isnt at the right speed, you'll be grinding gears and slamming it into gear, which isn't good for your transmission..
Your better off using the clutch unless your good at floating gears..

almost40 · July 28th, 2009, 11:08 AM

You can clutchless upshift with no adverse affects the higher the rpms the better. Nearly all sportbikes are designed for clutchless upshifting. I would NOT clutchless downshift. Unless you want to tear something up.

Hokie11 · July 28th, 2009, 11:12 AM

good tips, thanks!

almost40 · July 28th, 2009, 11:15 AM

Dont forget to lift the throttle in between shifts

n4v1n · July 28th, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnarchoMoltov

I was a semi truck driver b4 I got layed off...Truckers float gears all the time..
If your engine is at the right speed, rpm's, you can switch gears easily without using the clutch...If your engine isnt at the right speed, you'll be grinding gears and slamming it into gear, which isn't good for your transmission..
Your better off using the clutch unless your good at floating gears..

Damn dude semis can have like 20 or more gears, more power to ya.

Hokie11 · July 28th, 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost40

Dont forget to lift the throttle in between shifts

do you mean fully release throttle or just a little blip?

ive heard of powershifting where u dont release at all, and speedshifting where you blip it.. same thing?>

AnarchoMoltov · July 28th, 2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4v1n

Damn dude semis can have like 20 or more gears, more power to ya.

Ive been through yer neck of the woods alot, Baytown got all them truck stops there...Pilot, Flyin J, TA....right off of I-10

kkim · July 28th, 2009, 12:42 PM

you can shift w/o the clutch... I always use the clutch for every shift, up and down.

learn to use your clutch... your transmission will last longer. ever watch the GP bikes on board cameras? they are always using their clutch... wonder why?

kazam58 · July 28th, 2009, 12:45 PM

I always use the clutch, it's smoother, you have more control, and your parts will last longer. No sense in racing your 250 on the street.
Kelly, racers don't use the clutch to upshift...at least not the ones that I've seen.

Hokie11 · July 28th, 2009, 01:12 PM

yeah i dont plan on racing... just weighing out the pros and cons and affects it has on the bike

kkim · July 28th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazam58

Kelly, racers don't use the clutch to upshift...at least not the ones that I've seen.

I'll have to check my DVDs... thought I saw them using it (well, Rossi, at least) on every shift, up and down.

ScorpionNinja · July 28th, 2009, 01:15 PM

those Racers can Afford to clutchless-Up shift..... cuz if sumin' breaks they dont pay for it! Thats what the racing teams mech/techs are for...

i dont do that, but afew times i have, thou didnt mean too. my tranny seems just fine still.

oooh clutchless-upshifting on a high HP motorcycle can result in popping the front wheel up and wiping out!

almost40 · July 28th, 2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokie11

do you mean fully release throttle or just a little blip?

ive heard of powershifting where u dont release at all, and speedshifting where you blip it.. same thing?>

blip it is correct. I do both, sometimes I use it,(corners) sometimes I dont.(down the straights) Its a personal thing its up to you. Kelly has a point that clutches are cheaper and eaiser to replace than gears.

sofo · July 28th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScorpionNinja

those Racers can Afford to clutchless-Up shift..... cuz if sumin' breaks they dont pay for it! Thats what the racing teams mech/techs are for...

I am sure their pay will be affected if / when they lose a couple of gears and drop out of a deciding race losing a rider / constructors championship. Team owners frown on such things.

Alex · July 28th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

I'll have to check my DVDs... thought I saw them using it (well, Rossi, at least) on every shift, up and down.

Nope. Some use the clutch for downshifting, but none of them use the clutch for upshifting. It's not necessary on the downshifts either, but out of habit and for absolute control of rear traction, many do. Rossi does sometimes have the clutch partially disengaged during some corners, but he does that less and less now. Used to be a way to finetune the operation of the slipper clutch. But both the mechanicals and the electronics controlling them have improved to the point that it's less necessary for the rider to manually control the clutch slippage.

When magazine writers get a chance to play on the GP bikes at the end of the season, one of the things they always comment on is how slick the shifting is, no clutch needed either up or down once the bike is rolling.

kkim · July 28th, 2009, 04:15 PM

are you suggesting riding a bike daily w/o using the clutch?

mike_sema · July 28th, 2009, 05:07 PM

I hope not

Alex · July 28th, 2009, 09:38 PM

I use the clutch 100% of the time on the ninjette. I was just responding to comments about whether or not folks on actual racebikes use their clutch. On track (not with the ninjette) I sometimes don't use the clutch on upshifts, though I tend to revert back to using it for at least a partial squeeze. Especially if my toe gets tired.

Here's a decent article from Sport Rider on how and why it could be useful to learn the technique.

Nickds7 · July 28th, 2009, 11:29 PM

Clutch is there to help match the speed of the gears to the engine. Just match engine speed... its amazing how many people drive a clutch and don't understand rev matching. You don't exactly need to use your clutch, but it is good habit to do so. I always use my clutch..

Good link Alex, everyone read it.

Hokie11 · July 29th, 2009, 05:13 AM

good read, thanks alex!

on a side note, i just dislocated my thumb out of its socket (then put it back in myself) last night during rock climbing and now cant even ride haha... at least now i wont have to do much at work since i cant even hold a pencil!

July 28th, 2009, 06:03 AM	#1
Hokie11 ninjette.org member Name: Vinh Location: Maryland Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153	clutchless shifting? I thought I saw a thread on this, but I can't seem to find it.. I assumed it was bad to not use the clutch when shifting, so I always use it, but then a few times by accident (since im still trying to get use to it), I shifted without pulling clutch at all... and it seemed fine.. I didn't hear any irregularities or grinding, but once again, I only put 10 miles on my first bike, so I am not accustomed to all the expected noises What can I expect if I don't use the clutch? Should I even be doing that at all? Will it hurt the system? oh and another thing... i can kick it into first gear without even touching the clutch.. at a standstill... is that normal? __________________________________________________ Black 09 Ninja 250R\|Shogun Crash Kit\|Woodcraft Full Rearsets\|Proton Flush LEDs\|De-Snorkeled\|Shimmed\|K&N\|Red Rim Tape\|ProGrips\|Puig\|10K HIDs\|15T Front

July 28th, 2009, 09:58 AM	#5
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	bad idea- there's a clutch on your bike for a reason, and it's not decoration.... __________________________________________________ Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders

July 28th, 2009, 10:06 AM	#6
Hokie11 ninjette.org member Name: Vinh Location: Maryland Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153	right, it does stall, but i was use to how in a car, you cant shift gears at all without engaging the clutch... so i wanted to make sure my cable wasnt f'd up __________________________________________________ Black 09 Ninja 250R\|Shogun Crash Kit\|Woodcraft Full Rearsets\|Proton Flush LEDs\|De-Snorkeled\|Shimmed\|K&N\|Red Rim Tape\|ProGrips\|Puig\|10K HIDs\|15T Front

July 28th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#7
Cali619 Giggity Giggity Name: Ryam Location: San Diego Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250R aka Hiryu Posts: 481	I have rarely used clutch-less up shifting but have done it to get going from a dead stop in a hurry(accelerating from a light when lane split), always clutch to downshift since the clutch isn't a slipper clutch. __________________________________________________ Facebook DY Fender chop, Danmoto CB slip-on w/baffle, Airbox removed, Kleen-air removed, shimmed needles, Mikuni #117.5 Main jets, K&N RU-1822 air filter pods

July 28th, 2009, 11:08 AM	#9
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	You can clutchless upshift with no adverse affects the higher the rpms the better. Nearly all sportbikes are designed for clutchless upshifting. I would NOT clutchless downshift. Unless you want to tear something up. __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

July 28th, 2009, 10:45 AM	#8
AnarchoMoltov ninjette.org guru Name: Dan Location: Chicago, il.... Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Suzuki GSX-R750 Posts: 378	I was a semi truck driver b4 I got layed off...Truckers float gears all the time.. If your engine is at the right speed, rpm's, you can switch gears easily without using the clutch...If your engine isnt at the right speed, you'll be grinding gears and slamming it into gear, which isn't good for your transmission.. Your better off using the clutch unless your good at floating gears..

July 28th, 2009, 11:12 AM	#10
Hokie11 ninjette.org member Name: Vinh Location: Maryland Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153	good tips, thanks! __________________________________________________ Black 09 Ninja 250R\|Shogun Crash Kit\|Woodcraft Full Rearsets\|Proton Flush LEDs\|De-Snorkeled\|Shimmed\|K&N\|Red Rim Tape\|ProGrips\|Puig\|10K HIDs\|15T Front

July 28th, 2009, 11:15 AM	#11
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	Dont forget to lift the throttle in between shifts __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

July 28th, 2009, 12:42 PM	#15
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	you can shift w/o the clutch... I always use the clutch for every shift, up and down. learn to use your clutch... your transmission will last longer. ever watch the GP bikes on board cameras? they are always using their clutch... wonder why?

July 28th, 2009, 12:45 PM	#16
kazam58 Sarcasm: Yea that'll work Name: Andy Location: Essex Jct, VT Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: 330	I always use the clutch, it's smoother, you have more control, and your parts will last longer. No sense in racing your 250 on the street. Kelly, racers don't use the clutch to upshift...at least not the ones that I've seen. __________________________________________________ '08 Blue - Seat Cowl - A-Tech CF Fender Elim - Zartan's Exhaust Hanger - Dynojet Kit - Drilled Slides - Snorkel Removed - K&N Drop In Air Filter - Tech Spec Grips - Sportisi Windscreen & VR Exhaust

July 28th, 2009, 01:12 PM	#17
Hokie11 ninjette.org member Name: Vinh Location: Maryland Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153	yeah i dont plan on racing... just weighing out the pros and cons and affects it has on the bike __________________________________________________ Black 09 Ninja 250R\|Shogun Crash Kit\|Woodcraft Full Rearsets\|Proton Flush LEDs\|De-Snorkeled\|Shimmed\|K&N\|Red Rim Tape\|ProGrips\|Puig\|10K HIDs\|15T Front

July 28th, 2009, 01:15 PM	#19
ScorpionNinja ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Dave Location: Michigan Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 650RTE & 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R (SOLD) Posts: A lot.	those Racers can Afford to clutchless-Up shift..... cuz if sumin' breaks they dont pay for it! Thats what the racing teams mech/techs are for... i dont do that, but afew times i have, thou didnt mean too. my tranny seems just fine still. oooh clutchless-upshifting on a high HP motorcycle can result in popping the front wheel up and wiping out!

July 28th, 2009, 04:15 PM	#23
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	are you suggesting riding a bike daily w/o using the clutch?

July 28th, 2009, 05:07 PM	#24
mike_sema ninjette.org guru Name: mike Location: tucson az Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 371	I hope not __________________________________________________ 08 250R: sportisi VR full exhaust, Dynojet, custom seat, kleen air rmvd, rim tape, grips, fender chop,zg db windscreen,k&n air filter,15t front sprocket,sportisi-usa clipons,solo seat cowl

July 28th, 2009, 09:38 PM	#25
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I use the clutch 100% of the time on the ninjette. I was just responding to comments about whether or not folks on actual racebikes use their clutch. On track (not with the ninjette) I sometimes don't use the clutch on upshifts, though I tend to revert back to using it for at least a partial squeeze. Especially if my toe gets tired. Here's a decent article from Sport Rider on how and why it could be useful to learn the technique. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

July 28th, 2009, 11:29 PM	#26
Nickds7 ninjette.org guru Name: Nick Location: Sacramento, California. Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 379	Clutch is there to help match the speed of the gears to the engine. Just match engine speed... its amazing how many people drive a clutch and don't understand rev matching. You don't exactly need to use your clutch, but it is good habit to do so. I always use my clutch.. Good link Alex, everyone read it.

July 29th, 2009, 05:13 AM	#27
Hokie11 ninjette.org member Name: Vinh Location: Maryland Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153	good read, thanks alex! on a side note, i just dislocated my thumb out of its socket (then put it back in myself) last night during rock climbing and now cant even ride haha... at least now i wont have to do much at work since i cant even hold a pencil! __________________________________________________ Black 09 Ninja 250R\|Shogun Crash Kit\|Woodcraft Full Rearsets\|Proton Flush LEDs\|De-Snorkeled\|Shimmed\|K&N\|Red Rim Tape\|ProGrips\|Puig\|10K HIDs\|15T Front

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