Rich's Cafe Build thread

[extremez31]

Evening All, So I was lucky enough to land a beat to $h!t 94 250. Its been laid down a few times, most of the fairings are cracked, bars bent, tank is leaking (in the market for a pregen tank if anyone has one for sale)

I have spent about 20 hours on the bike so far and decided to post some pics, see what everyone thinks.

I made a tray to house all the electronics under the seat and tank. If anyone is interested PM me. Images coming shortly.





I have a lathe, so I will machine aluminum inserts for the fork tops, make them look more complete.

Carbs after a complete teardown and sonic cleaning. With a set of rebuild kits and they are as good as new.





Still have a lot in store

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Nice!!

Are those headlight/fork brackets from china? I ask because I just got mine from there....

You must move pretty fast for all that after 20 hours. What kind of bar ends are you running? It looks like they leave a notch for bar end mirrors??

[infinitewhiskey]

Looks promising! We got the same look going on haha, at least for now.

[namoura]

I'm curious of how you mounted the electronics.

-Battery
-Junction Box
-Relays

And what you plan on doing for the water coolant, most people hook up a metal-ish bottle on the side of the radiator.

I've got clip-ons, streetfighter headlight, bar end mirrors and I'm looking into changing the rear sub-frame completely.

Running pipes right now, it is loud, and I've lost low and mid range power. As soon as I hit 9000 rpm, the bike comes back to life. But that is at the cost of my ears bleeding.

Will Probably remount exhausts, but in a different location (re-positioning exhausts higher up near passenger seat) No I won't be taking any passengers.

Looking forward to more pictures! and I love the headlight.

[TnNinjaGirl]

Definitely interested. Keep up the good work!

[extremez31]

The Headlight brackets are from Niche Cycle, I am sure they are chinese made... nowadays everything is. I am honestly not too crazy about them, I may end up making a set.

The bar ends are standard ends. The Mirrors are mounted to the end of the handlebars.

As for the electronics, Ill post some pics of the tray as soon as I get a chance. I am using a Balistic 4 cell battery, this thing is tiny and has no issue cranking. I used a 8 cell a few years back on a Ducati Monster and it held up fine till I sold the bike.

I have thought about making a rear subframe out of aluminum round tubing and keeping all the geometry exactly the same. It'll give it a more vintage look and save at least 15 lbs. that subframe weighs a TON.

Exhaust, I will probably end up buying or making a 2-1

Coolant tank I am looking for an old aluminum oil catch can that I can fit.

So at the moment I am trying to just get the bike semi mocked up, make sure everything is running right then I'll completely tear it down and refinish everything.

When I bought the bike it only ran by push start, once it was warm the bike was able to start on its own.

I completely tore down the carbs, cleaned them and rebuilt the lower bowls. I adjusted the Idle Air by screwing them in all the way and backing out 1.5-1.75 turns. I also found the carburetor incomplete. It was missing a spring in one of the diaphragms.

I put the carbs in, put the tank on and attempted to start the bike. The bike just cranks with no sign of firing.

I checked the bowls and after cranking for 20-30 seconds they are both full of fuel. I pulled a spark plug to see if its firing and it is. So I have fuel and spark. The bike is cranking just not firing.

Can anyone give me any advice at this point.

[jkv45]

Try turning the idle mixture screws out to 2.5 turns.

What is the choke setting?

Have you tried different choke settings?

How about opening the throttle a bit when cranking or turning the idle speed screw in slightly?

You can also spray some starting fluid into the carbs as you are cranking and see what you get.

The fuel is fresh - right?

[extremez31]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Try turning the idle mixture screws out to 2.5 turns.

What is the choke setting?

Have you tried different choke settings?

How about opening the throttle a bit when cranking or turning the idle speed screw in slightly?

You can also spray some starting fluid into the carbs as you are cranking and see what you get.

The fuel is fresh - right?

I've tried on full choke then reduced it to 75%, 50% 25% and off.

I've tried the idle air at various settings from 1 turn to 3 turns

I sprayed some starting fluid into the carbs and I don't get much ignition a bellow here and there.

I took the carbs off and sprayed some starter fluid into the motor and i get more bellowing and a small fire from the minimum amount of starter fluid around the motor.

So I think its an ignition issue. from cranking repeatedly i do have fuel coming out of the exhaust pipes. not much just a drop or two. If the spark was strong i think it would have fired up.

Ill order plugs and wires unless anyone has better suggestions.

[Racer x]

Cab you check compression? You need 125 psi min

[extremez31]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Cab you check compression? You need 125 psi min

Never thought to check compression since it ran via push start. I guess it wouldn't hurt I'll report back

[extremez31]

Here are some pics of the electronics tray. The first one I made wasn't quite right and didn't hold everything quite right.



Here is a pic of the production model, Its aluminum, brushed but my dirty hands made a mess of it. Looks much better clean and in person. Ill post some pics of it installed.

[alex.s]

that 4 cell isn't going to be enough for the starter

[Nick nova/ninja/boni]

Really like it so far I'm doing a similar build... Let me know how that batery works out! I did something all most identical with my electronics lol

[extremez31]

After two hours of tinkering I finally got the bike to start on its own.

Here's what I did

I took the plug boots off the wires, I saw that they were a mess so I cut them down slightly and reattached them.

I replaced the plugs

I then attempted to crank and heard the bike attempt to start but it wouldn't

I verified the idle air screws were at 2.5 turns and decided to turn it down to 1.75 turns. Then attempted to start and I got more popping but again bike wouldn't start.

I kept adjusting the idle air down and it kept getting better until I was at full lock. The bike wanted to start but still couldn't.

I verified I was at full choke and I was. I came to the realization I'm getting too much air. I took all the preload off the butterflies using the idle adjuster and the bike fired right up.

Has anyone needed to fully tighten the idle air screws to get a bike to start?

Now that I got it to fire, I feel better so its time to start tearing it apart.

[Obi-Ron Kenobi]

Just bought and 06 and am working on a café project myself. Plan on posting pics soon. Thanks for the ideas.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Are you running stock jets???

I always make my idle needles flush with the carb body when I'm tuning them....

[extremez31]

Congrats on the 06, that's why I started this thread so ideas can be shared back and forth.

At the moment the jets are stock, I have a stage 3 jet kit i'll install but I first wanted to get the bike to start on its own. This bike will get a muzzy 2-1 and either a set of stacks or pod filters.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by extremez31

I verified I was at full choke and I was. I came to the realization I'm getting too much air. I took all the preload off the butterflies using the idle adjuster and the bike fired right up.

Ahhhh. I had the same issue when I upgraded my throttle tube. It took up all the slack plus some in the accel cable and created the same problem. I would bump start it and it would rev up to like 8k rpms but it would not start with the starter/choke.

[tc.young]

cool rich, when the spring comes you have to bring that out on one of our big apple rides. love streetfighter/cafe modern bikes

[extremez31]

Thanks everyone, now that the weather is nice, I am going to try to wrap it up and enjoy the season.

[extremez31]

With the help of a friend yesterday we made some real progress. We installed Galfer lines, Muzzy's 2-1 header, I re-jetted the carbs with dyno-jet stage 3 but ran into an issue with the bowl gaskets. It seems that since I installed them 3 months ago they have greatly expanded and need new ones. The replacement tank is in as well.

So the plan is to get the bike running & Road worthy for this sundays Gathering of the Norton’s in PA. That means we still need to mount the tail light & wire it, change the oil / filter, flush the coolant system, and finish the carbs.

Over the winter I will completely disassemble it, de-tab it, Paint, powder coat, sand blast the wheels, get new tires and figure out the seat.

Pictures coming soon.

[extremez31]

Here is a pic of the bike in its current state, she runs but the carbs need tuning. I still have a hard time starting the bike when the motor is cold. I hope that with more tuning and possibly a valve adjustment it'll solve the problem. Now its not the battery because i've jumped it to a car battery with the car off and it still wouldn't fire. (I know i am not supposed to do this but with the car running the bike fires right up, car off I get nothing bot some sputtering and cranking) I noticed that the starter spins twice as fast with the car running than with the car off. She also bump starts easily.

From a stop, when you roll on the throttle she sputters until the motor gets to about 3K rpm then she feels alive and fine. Next on the agenda is figuring out what i'm going to do with this seat.

[crazymadbastard]

Try cleaning the battery terminals and grounds for the cold start, which clip ons are those?

[chugs]

Nice job, looks like your making progress.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by extremez31

Here is a pic of the bike in its current state, she runs but the carbs need tuning. I still have a hard time starting the bike when the motor is cold. I hope that with more tuning and possibly a valve adjustment it'll solve the problem. Now its not the battery because i've jumped it to a car battery with the car off and it still wouldn't fire. (I know i am not supposed to do this but with the car running the bike fires right up, car off I get nothing bot some sputtering and cranking) I noticed that the starter spins twice as fast with the car running than with the car off. She also bump starts easily.

From a stop, when you roll on the throttle she sputters until the motor gets to about 3K rpm then she feels alive and fine. Next on the agenda is figuring out what i'm going to do with this seat.

Sounds like carb issues. Check for vacuum leaks at the carb boots. Check to make sure the carbs are jetted correctly. Make sure the mixture screws are 2-1/2 turns out each to start. Regarding the carb bowl gaskets, put them in the freezer for a while and they will shrink back down to size. Keep in mind.. its fairly difficult to tune one of these bikes with aftermarket air filters and aftermarket exhaust on them. They always seem to run better totally stock. Also make sure you sync the carbs.

[extremez31]

The carb boots are intact, no cracks and I have ensured that the clamps are firmly in place. The bike has the stock pilot jet, 114 Dynojet main jet, the dynojet needles with the e clips in position #3 and 2 washers above then as the instructions call for. The A/F mixture is at exactly 2.5 turns. 2.5 turns puts the points flush with the carb. I think the bike i'snt getting enough fuel so im going to try and move the needles to position #4 which will make the mix richer. Its either that or I can use a smaller main jet which will flow slightly less air. What do you guys recommend. it takes 5 minutes to pull the carbs so its not a big deal.

[UnshavenCanuck]

Hey man nice job so far. I don't think this is a possibility for you because I don't think it was on your year but my 05 had this tiny screen filter inside the fuel line from the tank to the carbs all crushed up

[UnshavenCanuck]

I have the very same dyno jet kit with the same settings using k&n filter and two bros exhaust with modded baffles (tack welded frost plugs in each muffler to diffuse the sound a bit). Mine runs great first time setup. People behind me say it might be rich but I'm fine spending a little more on gas not to lose performance. It pulls great in all gears so far. It's still chilly here. Right after the rebuild I did 97 mph with a full tank and my recently lightened butt (195lbs). I love this bike

[UnshavenCanuck]

Here's my under tank goodies

[extremez31]

Originally Posted by UnshavenCanuck

Hey man nice job so far. I don't think this is a possibility for you because I don't think it was on your year but my 05 had this tiny screen filter inside the fuel line from the tank to the carbs all crushed up

I'm using a new fuel line so I know there's nothing in it. I'm going to change the needle setting get to get it a little more rich. I like your tail, mind sharing more pics and details?

[UnshavenCanuck]

That tail is the whole reason for the project lol. I bought a 77 Kawi kz750 to do the custom cafe thing instead of messing with the 250. I got stuck disassembling the kz so decided to tear off the 250 fairings and do a required valve adjustment and powdercoat some pieces. While the tail was off I set the kz tail in its place and the rest is history lol.

If you don't mind how do you post multiple pics in a post? That way I can do a build thread

[extremez31]

Originally Posted by UnshavenCanuck

That tail is the whole reason for the project lol. I bought a 77 Kawi kz750 to do the custom cafe thing instead of messing with the 250. I got stuck disassembling the kz so decided to tear off the 250 fairings and do a required valve adjustment and powdercoat some pieces. While the tail was off I set the kz tail in its place and the rest is history lol.

If you don't mind how do you post multiple pics in a post? That way I can do a build thread

I hope you don't mind but I may do something similar to what you did, its the exact look I am going for. Its funny how our trays are also so similar.

Posting multiple pics is easy just repeat what you've been doing to add a single pic to the post but instead of publishing it click to add another pic.

[UnshavenCanuck]

I don't think I'm doing it right because mine come up as attached thumbnails here goes.
Nope when I click the paper clip it gives the option for more pics but every time I load a new one it over writes the first. I'm on an iPad if that makes a difference

[extremez31]

Use the picture icon. It's yellow has an image of mountains.

[UnshavenCanuck]

Question rich. Where are your pics located because when I click the mountain icon it asks for an URL.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by UnshavenCanuck

I don't think I'm doing it right because mine come up as attached thumbnails here goes.
Nope when I click the paper clip it gives the option for more pics but every time I load a new one it over writes the first. I'm on an iPad if that makes a difference

lol was that a street sign?

[sharky nrk]

That KZ tail looks great BTW

[UnshavenCanuck]

@Sharky yes it most definately is a street sign. When doing this custom stuff I find there isn't much better material to work with. I used it multiple times, under pan covers, side covers to fill the spots on the sides of the tank and various brackets. I got mine for nothing from a friend who works for the city. The bend I put in it is a bit off in the pics but I retweaked it on the final project.

[dukeswift]

SICK! What did you use for clip on bars?

[extremez31]

I used a set made by a guy who sells on ebay. NOT worth the money 68.00 shipped.... looking back I should have bought a used woodcraft set.This guys welds are going to take days to clean up.