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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by JMcDonald View Post
Hmm, the throttle cable free play was pretty large (a good half an inch of motion was required at the grip to even get tension in the cables) and I adjusted it tighter, but the throttle does open and close all the way.
that much cable slack will most likely affect the top end. I'm sure the carbs weren't opening all the way at WOT. try the bike now and see.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #122
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Oh I meant I made that change like a week ago. I didn't notice any difference in overall power, just it was easier to control small throttle openings.


If only, though .
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #123
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Oh I meant I made that change like a week ago. I didn't notice any difference in overall power, just it was easier to control small throttle openings.


If only, though .
shucks...

you still running the stock exhaust w/ the r0990 filter while you're jetting?
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #124
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Yup! All day. Went from 112 down to 102, running about 15 miles between each change. 105 and 102 feel the smoothest up top, though 102s require a lot of needle shimming. But, still, top speed (and thus apparently power output) does not seem to have changed between any of these jets.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #125
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I think the stock exhaust is the limiting factor in your jetting woes. I'd stay w/ the 105s for now and work on the needles. try to pull the plugs and get a feel for what's happening.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:28 PM   #126
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Oh really? I was thinking I could pick up at least a little bit, since it seems lots of people have been able to run stock or near-stock mains with success after installing an exhaust system (meaning the exhaust wasn't really a restriction in the first place), but with the addition of a pod filter most are having to go to much larger jets (like how mine would barely move with the stock mains). But, if all my problems really are simply due to a restructive exhaust system, I'd feel much better than having something broken or damaged within the carbs. Do you think the potential reduction in flow would prevent me from telling the difference between all the different jets? It actually performed better with the same jets with the stock exhaust than with the one I made (even with the 112s, which made the engine bog with the aftermarket exhaust while with the stock exhaust it ran like stock, heh).

Maybe tomorrow, but probably sometime this week, I will put the 105s back in and get the needles set up. Then I'll do a WOT run and coast off the highway to pull the plugs.

I guess time to save up for a real exhaust system :P . I am really starting to wonder if the one I built was too open, especially near the head, to maintain sufficient velocity for scavenging.



And thanks again for helping point me through all this.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #127
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my guess at the 105s is based on people that have full exhausts run 110-112s, so I'm guessing the reduction in exhaust velocity with the stock pipe is limiting how much air can be processed through the engine.

also, the fact that you have the needles down to the 4-5 clip position and want to go even richer says to me you need to go a bit richer with the mains from where you are.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 07:44 AM   #128
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That is what I would think, too. However, even with the stock exhaust, if I am flowing too much air for the 98s and am requiring 105s, it should mean I would also make proportionally more power. That this does not follow--that I am seemingly moving more and and thus requiring more fuel to burn, but not actually making any more power--makes me wonder if something else isn't wrong .
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Old December 5th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #129
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Like, almost40 reports hitting 108mph on the GPS with just an exhaust and using dynojet 100 mains, which would be the equivalent of the 102s I have in now. It seems like if we are burning the same amount of fuel in the top end, I should at least be somewhere closer that power range, right?
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Old December 6th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #130
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Like, almost40 reports hitting 108mph on the GPS with just an exhaust and using dynojet 100 mains, which would be the equivalent of the 102s I have in now. It seems like if we are burning the same amount of fuel in the top end, I should at least be somewhere closer that power range, right?
I think he still has his stock air box, not pod filters like you do.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 06:52 AM   #131
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I was just saying he seems to be making like 20% more power with the same amount of fuel burned, which wouldn't seem to make sense unless there is some other issue holding my bike back. What that is, I have no idea. I might try to improve my exhaust system a bit in the coming days or weeks to see if I can't notice any change.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 05:13 AM   #132
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Just skimmed past this while looking for something...I could hit 180KM/H with a dead stock bike...this seemed to be 'the wall' even with the mods I have now...
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Old December 9th, 2010, 05:25 AM   #133
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I imagine you are talking about 180 on the speedo? Going by the speedo, that is not out of the realm of possibility in ideal conditions (maybe a slight decline or a bit of a tailwind, heh). But yeah, it is kindof frustrating to go through all this and end up with the same amount of power, eh?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:01 AM   #134
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Yes by the speedo, but it couldn't be that far off...no decline or wind, after I get it to 160 takes a while to get to 180. It's really pushing the bike to it's absolute limit.

I never really expected that much more power, I knew this before going into it...theres a noticeable improvement but that's about it. Just dawned on me how much money I have spent

I have recently started becoming frustrated by a lack of power, but, it's a small bike and has allowed me to better my skills (also the first bike I ever owned/rode). I would have gone for a 600 but there are power restriction laws here until your on a full license (which I am about 3 months away from).

I believe getting dyno time or (in my case) a wideband sensor will really allow you to get it right where you want it...and then probably sell it a few months later ha ha ha

Don't worry, you'll get there in the end...it may take some time but you haven't had half the problems I did
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #135
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Yeah, I am not expecting a huge increase, and really I am constantly debating whether or not I ever would want to upgrade. But, even if I do, it probably won't be for a couple years unless I just suddenly can't take it and buy an old beat up 600 :P . But really, this bike does everything I need it to do rather well; I really just want a little more power for the highway. I'd imagine when cruising with traffic at 75-80mph, having a top speed 30mph higher (105-110, actual) will give a lot more room to work than when it is only 15mph higher (95, actual). That, and it will help me hold the gap a little longer ahead of my 600-riding friends so they can't pass me before the next turn :P .
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Old December 10th, 2010, 08:37 AM   #136
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New to me 250R

YEAR: 2008

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: air box removed. K&N Dual pods Filter

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS:M4 carbon slip-on

JET KIT OR STOCK? Jet Kit

BRAND OF JET KIT? Factory Pro

MAIN JET: 112

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: Stock needle with 3 washers

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 2-1/2 turns out from bottom

ELEVATION: sea level

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP: I am a newbee to my 250R. Had it two weeks w/ the M4 pipe, but the 1st owner did not jet it. I added the pods and the jet kit, removing the air box was a PITA, but now it runs and sounds incredible, maybe a little loud, but great.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 08:46 AM   #137
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You might put this in the actual database. This is more for discussing changes and issues, while the other is for the actual numbers for quick reference.

The Jetting Database:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...atabase&page=2

Just copy and paste it into a new post there, or maybe Alex can move it?

Thanks for contributing! Did you try out a 110 main (just curious)? What methods did you use to find your current settings, and how many did you have to try?
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Old December 10th, 2010, 08:52 AM   #138
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Will do thanks, first post.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:48 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by just_robert View Post
YEAR: 2008

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: air box removed. K&N Dual pods Filter

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS:M4 carbon slip-on

JET KIT OR STOCK? Jet Kit

BRAND OF JET KIT? Factory Pro

MAIN JET: 112

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: Stock needle with 3 washers

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 2-1/2 turns out from bottom

ELEVATION: sea level

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP: I am a newbee to my 250R. Had it two weeks w/ the M4 pipe, but the 1st owner did not jet it. I added the pods and the jet kit, removing the air box was a PITA, but now it runs and sounds incredible, maybe a little loud, but great.
Robert... you have a FP jet kit, but you used the stock needles? any reason why?
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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #140
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I tried the kit needle, but I did not like the locking shim, the stock needle was just easier and they seemed very similar. The locking washer kept coming out of the grooves when I was messing with it. Probably just personal preference.

I did notice something though and have not read yet to figure out how to fix it, but when I hit the throttle it takes quite a bit of time for the rpm's to come back down to idle. I am very new to this and followed the instructions from the jet kit to set up each step. I think the 112 might be a little rich, but I am moving soon, so I do not want to mess with it much until after that.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #141
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use the needles from the FP kit. they are much richer than the stock needles, which is what is causing your revs to come back down slowly.

there is a difference between the stock and aftermarket needles... in fact, that's what you're paying for when you purchase an aftermarket jet kit... the expertise/R&D needed to properly select the right needles for the job.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #142
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Thanks will do. I will update with the difference. Here is a image of the new toy.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #143
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one more bit to help ease your mind... the clip on the needle retention system has been used for years without problems and it's only recently that manufactures have resorted to the non adjustable needles to comply with emissions standards they are trying to meet so they can sell the bikes in the respective countries.

cool bike.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 03:52 PM   #144
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thanks for the help, I am sure I will need quite a bit more in the coming weeks.

Robert
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Old December 10th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #145
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just to add to what kkim was sayying (he's correct of course) - for extra stability add washers ON TOP of the circlip then another circlip on top of those washers.

Like this :

__ <circlip

_ <washer

_ <washer

__ <circlip
|
| <needle
|
|
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Old January 20th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #146
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How do the Sportisi main jets compare to the others? Are the same size range as the stock-type (Keihin) jets?

*edit*

Apparently, yes (thanks, Matt)!
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Last futzed with by JMcDonald; January 20th, 2011 at 09:23 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:54 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGs View Post
just to add to what kkim was sayying (he's correct of course) - for extra stability add washers ON TOP of the circlip then another circlip on top of those washers.

Like this :

__ <circlip

_ <washer

_ <washer

__ <circlip
|
| <needle
|
|
Why are you shimming above the circlip?
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Old January 21st, 2011, 06:33 PM   #148
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Why are you shimming above the circlip?
the extra washers above the clip is to help stabilize the needle from bouncing around due to engine vibrations.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 11:36 AM   #149
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How high up does the needle position affect WOT power? Like, right now it feels like my bike is lean from about 10 to 12k, where it starts to pull well again. Will raising the needles make a difference that high up in the rev range? Or are the mains really only the factor past about 8k when at WOT?

Thanks.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:08 PM   #150
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YEAR:2009
INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: k&n r-0990
EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: leo vince full exhaust
JET KIT OR STOCK? jet kit
BRAND OF JET KIT? fp
MAIN JET: 112
NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: e-clip #3 from top
MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 2 3/4
ELEVATION: 0-500

Above is my current setup, basically just installed everything and used everybodies suggestions as a base line for my jetting. It was 25 degrees out today but the roads are finally nice so I decided to ride it. First off its fairly hard to start, turned choke on crank and it starts but dies right away. Had to do that a couple times for it to stay running, is this temp related?. I noticed if I leave the choke on for more than a minute I get a pinging noise from the carbs. Didn't here it any other time though. The top end is awesome and pulls very well and sounds good. However when downshifting to a stop my idle seemed to drop and when riding at around 4k it feels dead and the exhaust sounds really rough/choppy. Any advice on what to do from here, I think I need to start by backing my mixture screws out a 1/4 turn?
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #151
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did you do any type of tuning with the mixtures crews other than just setting it at where it's at when you did the rejetting?
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:57 PM   #152
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Nope, I need to buy something lol either a super stubby screwdriver or an offset one. Im pretty sure that where I need to satrt but have only worked on 1 carb before this one.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #153
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I just use an appropriately sized driver bit for turning the mixture screws. It doesn't take any force to turn them, and a simple bit is obviously small enough to get in there with my hand.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #154
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I will try that tomorrow on lunch break. I have a couple of the double sided bits for drills that should be long enough to turn with my hand but still short.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #155
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Yeah, one of the longer style is what I use as well.

I use one of these for getting to the float bowl screws. Got it for $.99 on sale.
http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piec...set-95320.html
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Old April 20th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus168 View Post
YEAR:2010

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS:snorkle removed, knn replacement filter, Kleen Air System Removed

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS:leo vince evo2 full system

JET KIT OR STOCK? jet kit

BRAND OF JET KIT? factory pro

MAIN JET: 98 (std)

PILOT JET: 38(std)

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: e-clip in 3rd position

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS:roughly 2 turn out

ELEVATION: jakarta(about sea level)

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP:

after playing around with sportisi jet kit, eclip on 3rd(sportisi) mj98 sportisi), i prefered using factory pro needle with specs above, the bike feel very light, while using the sportisi needle bike is alot more heavy, i currently satisfied with factory pro... hope this help...
That's because you put the sportisi clip on 3rd instead of 2. Although for most application we recommend position 2 from top, some prefer buying a new kit instead of finding what went wrong first . You're in jakarta its easy to contact sportisi directly and we will come up with a nice solution and advice which is cheaper than buying a new kit.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bprayogo View Post
That's because you put the sportisi clip on 3rd instead of 2. Although for most application we recommend position 2 from top, some prefer buying a new kit instead of finding what went wrong first . You're in jakarta its easy to contact sportisi directly and we will come up with a nice solution and advice which is cheaper than buying a new kit.
I'm sorry mr bram, not that i offend sportisi.. i satisfied using sportisi needle at 3rd clip better than at 2nd clip which previously setup by you, i bought a new kit because of curiosity.... different needle different character, it's only a matter of taste, i like this setup much better...

previously using sportisi needle at 3rd clip give a lot of power(i'm not lying) but my current setup is more preferable(at least for me).. sorry if i have offended u

thank you
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Old April 20th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #158
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No worries bro,no one offended here
If you go with pos 3 needle, better to go back to std 98 mainjets.as the sluggishness come from richness at 8000-9000 rpm
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Old May 15th, 2011, 07:47 PM   #159
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I'm considering getting the Dynojet 2193 as it's cheaper and I'm just looking for something so I can use my full exhaust without issues. I was reading their instructions online which states to use the #98 jets with aftermarket pipes....but I thought our bikes come with #98 jets from the factory? Their kit does include #100 jets. Would I be better off with just shimming the stock needles with washers or getting the dynojet kit because of the tapered needles? I'm trying to keep as much of my gas mileage too.

I plan on getting a stock before and after dyno.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #160
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Dyno Jet 98s are bigger than the stock keihin 98s. They don't use the same numbering system.
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