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Old February 22nd, 2017, 10:36 AM   #1
JustRidin
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Ninjette or not? First track bike

It happened.

After 4 years of street riding, too many close calls with gravel, cars, and guardrails, I've gained some sense.

I'm turning to the track for my speed fix. Hopefully a summer of open lapping and then I'll start racing.

Instinctively I thought I'd buy a cheaper pre-gen or new-gen. I'm not ready to risk riding anything shiny or expensive at the track yet. However, with all the ninjette track junkies here I was wondering what everyone's opinion was about having had a ninjette as their first track bike.

If you could advise someone else would you say go for a ninjette or maybe something else like the popular SV650 to start?
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 10:51 AM   #2
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You can't really go wrong with an SV650. They're plentiful, have good aftermarket and race series support, and spares are easy to come by....

.... at least for now. Despite the fact that the SV lives on, it's the Gen 1 and Gen 2 versions that are the go-to for track riders. Those are getting long in the tooth. The newest Gen 2 (pre-Gladius) versions are now nine years old.

A newgen Ninjette will be cheaper to run overall, and it'll be easier to find parts for longer. But it'll be slower. Nevertheless, I think it can make a great track bike and an outstanding skills development platform.

So bottom line: Flip a coin.

Both have their limitations; neither one is a true supersport. But you don't really need a supersport to have a blast on the track. A slower bike will teach you more.

On the Ninjette what will wind up happening as you get better is that you'll get passed on every straight, then wind up behind less-skilled riders who park it in the corners. The same will happen on the SV, but not quite so readily.

FWIW I see more SVs at the track than Ninjettes. The Ninjettes tend to be ridden by slow-group riders. Faster riders tend to have the SVs.

Also FWIW: I know of two riders who moved from their SVs to RC390s.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:01 AM   #3
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PS: If you're patient, keep your eyes peeled and are prepared to jump at a moment's notice, you might stumble into a great track bike for not a lot.

I see you have an 07 R6. My track bike is an 06 R6, with allllllll the goodies up to and including a full Ohlins suspension. I bought it, with a pretty badly dented (but intact) tank and heavily rashed bodywork, for $3,000. I've put about a grand into it in bodywork, less-dented tank, spare wheels for rain tires, etc. Yeah it's got battle scars but it's straight and rides like a dream.

It's a far better bike than I am a rider. The thing is awesome and I couldn't ask for more. (Well, I COULD ask for a new CBR1000RR SP, but, well, you know.)

The drawback of getting a larger/faster track bike is that the consumables add up. Tires cost a whole lot more, for one thing, and wear out a whole lot faster. And it drinks fuel like nobody's business. I know a guy who rides an S1000RR and pretty much goes through a set of Supercorsas seemingly every track weekend -- at least I'm constantly seeing him buy new tires. Frankly he probably does it a lot more often than he really needs to, but he's got the money.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:20 AM   #4
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Hmmm... imho currently

In your shoes I would also go the sv route like Andrew recommends. If your goal is racing, then 100% agree that a lower hp machine is where it's at. Why? Because it will force you to be fast because you ARE... not because you can whack the throttle and make up lost speed.

As far as a path to racing, track the sv until your ready to grid up for the first time. And, that first time should be on that sv. Everything will be a known quantity and you can focus on your racing and race protocols vs trying to figure out a new bike. Never know, you might even be competitive right out of the gate. If you go with a ninjette as your first race machine... you will automatically be at a disadvantage in a field of 300's and 390's.

After that and when your ready, take that r6 to the track and experience a whole other world of speed in the straights. But.. oddly enough, don't be surprised if your speed in the corners are similar to your smaller cc bike.

After racing 600's, nothing really excites me about it aside of watching others do it. Within the rules, it's mostly who has the biggest wallet. You don't experience that as much in the small cc race classes.

But first... have you ever been to the track before?
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post

But first... have you ever been to the track before?
I've been to the poor man's track in the Denver area, IMI, which is small enough to be a go-kart track rather than a true road course. Not the greatest surface anyhow.

I'm also open to a Ninja 300 if the price is right, it was just difficult to imagine paying the premium price, even used. Salvage title 300s seem to pop up regularly though which could be tempting. Plus in Devner the 300 will be limited to the 400 class while the 250 seems to be eligible for a few classes.

The SV's can be found from 2-3k fairly regularly, but as Andrew mentioned....they're getting quite old at this point.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post

A newgen Ninjette will be cheaper to run overall, and it'll be easier to find parts for longer. But it'll be slower. Nevertheless, I think it can make a great track bike and an outstanding skills development platform.

So bottom line: Flip a coin.
I may end up doing just that in the end depending what deals pop up. Including any possible Ninja 300 deals at that. An already prepped track bike could save a lot of cost in upgrades on any bike.

As for a true 600 supersport on the track, it's just not the time for that. I'd rather build my skills on a slower (and cheaper) bike. Maybe a few years down the road.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:27 AM   #7
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I've got a buddy that raced a SV for a few years, but sold it last year to get a R3. He felt that to be competitive he needed to get into some serious engine mods, and didn't want to go that route. He's having a blast with the new bike.

Another thing to consider is the new Super Sport 300 class (http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2016/new+champ+category) that will be running with WSB. That should bring a lot more interest to a 300-ish class, and most sanctioning bodies should take notice.

A 250 is fine, but if you want to race eventually I think a 300 would be a better starting platform at this point.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 10:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
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As for a true 600 supersport on the track, it's just not the time for that. I'd rather build my skills on a slower (and cheaper) bike. Maybe a few years down the road.
How's your self-discipline? How old are you? Are you the guy who finds himself seeing red mist and letting POWAH seduce him? Are you the guy who pushes limits?

Or are you a more conservative and thoughtful rider? A guy who doesn't let peer pressure, wishful thinking or the adrenaline rush get the better of him?

A bike doesn't do anything on its own. A smaller, slower bike won't save you if you behave irresponsibly. If you're able to control your right wrist and ride within your limits, there's no problem.

I know a guy... young, aggressive, confident, intelligent. He hosted a group ride with the local crew and halfway through I just let them go, because he was doing crap like double-plus the speed limit in residential areas with kids on the street. After that ride some folks in the local group posted saying "sooner or later you're going to get hurt riding that way."

His first track day he crashed.

Last year he disappeared. Recently he popped up: turns out he'd lost it catching air on a recreational ride... on a Ninja 1000. His body had an unfortunate encounter with a road sign, he suffered a compound leg fracture and almost bled out. Months of rehab ensued.

All because he just can't help going fast. I'd bet cash money he'd have crashed anyway, on any bike. He's just that guy who thinks with the wrong head sometimes. His name is Gabe. Don't be like Gabe.

I'm an old (now 58) geezer who exemplifies something that people think does not exist: a risk-averse, responsible, non-adrenaline-junkie sportbike rider.

Frankly I don't care about going fast. I care about precision. Hell, it took me two years of track riding to scuff my first knee puck. The only two bikes I've ever ridden on the track are my GSX-R750 and the R6. Never a problem.

And in 31 years of riding, the only time I've laid a bike down -- ever -- was about a week after I got my license, going less than 10 mph.

It's all in the wrist, baby.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 07:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
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How's your self-discipline? How old are you? Are you the guy who finds himself seeing red mist and letting POWAH seduce him? Are you the guy who pushes limits?

Or are you a more conservative and thoughtful rider? A guy who doesn't let peer pressure, wishful thinking or the adrenaline rush get the better of him?

A bike doesn't do anything on its own. A smaller, slower bike won't save you if you behave irresponsibly. If you're able to control your right wrist and ride within your limits, there's no problem.

I know a guy... young, aggressive, confident, intelligent.

....

His first track day he crashed.

Last year he disappeared. Recently he popped up: turns out he'd lost it catching air on a recreational ride... on a Ninja 1000. His body had an unfortunate encounter with a road sign, he suffered a compound leg fracture and almost bled out. Months of rehab ensued.
Sound advice. For my age, 24, I'm a conservative rider, but not immune to the POWAH entirely. While I haven't gone down yet the track would be the situation, if any, I'd push it a bit too far.

As that may be, with the R6 at the track I find myself overly cautious out of fear of dropping a shiny bike. To the point I think it's preventing me from progressing.

With a less expensive machine those fears will still be in healthy supply, but may be relaxed just enough.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #10
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A 250 is fine, but if you want to race eventually I think a 300 would be a better starting platform at this point.
Agreed.

Going off of Csmith's discussions of an SV650, the SV class for racing will be more stable than the 300s. The bikes are plentiful and modded.

I think a 300 is also perfect for working on technique at trackdays. I went from two 600s to a 300 and learned a lot more. The low cost and the small size of the 300 definitely helped me stay relaxed.

Not having owned an SV, I will say that a 300 would be a great trackbike.

However, I will say that the 300s will probably see more changes soon. For now, the Ninja 300 is kind of a protected group with some organizations, but that may change if Kawi updates it with a displacement bump. Just something to consider if you want to go racing.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 07:20 AM   #11
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As that may be, with the R6 at the track I find myself overly cautious out of fear of dropping a shiny bike. To the point I think it's preventing me from progressing.

With a less expensive machine those fears will still be in healthy supply, but may be relaxed just enough.
My track pace was held back for a couple of years by riding my street bike. Not only was the Ducati Monster not a great bike for the track but I was always conscious of not wanting to wreck a nice shiny bike. When I switched to a dedicated track bike, I had a lot more fun and my confidence went way up. Now I mostly ride my 300 at the track and am having a blast. The smaller bikes are growing in popularity, and now there are a lot of people at my local track on the 300's, R3s and RC390's.

As for the choice between the 300 and the SV650, I'd say pick whichever one suits your local track the best.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #12
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I was in the same boat my first stint of track riding 20 yrs ago. I had showroom mint GSXRs and the $8k or so I had in them were a major chunk of worry for me. I really recommend a cheap beater of a bike for track riding. Buy one thats already a race bike, they're less expensive than doing it yourself. Tire costs are the other big expense to consider. A 250/300 can race for a season on one set. 1000's go thru a set in a day or two.

I come off the track riding my 250 with a big smile on my face. When I was track riding my 600 as a 20 something yr old, i was pretty much shaking my knees and scared for my life and bike. I guess each of us needs to figure out what works best for himself, its certainly not a one size fits all sort of thing.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #13
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I'm entering my third full year of track riding. I did one day my first year and have done about six days in each of the last two years.

I used my GSX-R, which I bought new, for that first day and the first full year. Before risking it on the track at all, I fitted frame sliders and used race bodywork because factory plastics are stupid expensive. I figured I could resell the race bodywork for about what I paid for it if I decided the track wasn't for me. The bike served very well that first year.

But it's my daily ride, so I had to remove all the factory stuff and put the race body on every time I did a track day. That got old really, really fast. Truth be told, that was half the reason I jumped at the chance to pick up a dedicated track bike.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 07:42 AM   #14
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Learn how to make the slowest bike turn the fastest lap time. Especially if you are a beginner to racing. Don't allow horsepower to mask your shortcomings as a rider.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #15
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I know a guy... young, aggressive, confident, intelligent. He hosted a group ride with the local crew and halfway through I just let them go, because he was doing crap like double-plus the speed limit in residential areas with kids on the street. After that ride some folks in the local group posted saying "sooner or later you're going to get hurt riding that way."

His first track day he crashed.

Last year he disappeared. Recently he popped up: turns out he'd lost it catching air on a recreational ride... on a Ninja 1000. His body had an unfortunate encounter with a road sign, he suffered a compound leg fracture and almost bled out. Months of rehab ensued.

All because he just can't help going fast. I'd bet cash money he'd have crashed anyway, on any bike. He's just that guy who thinks with the wrong head sometimes. His name is Gabe. Don't be like Gabe.
You are rarely wrong sir, but he crashed his z1000, because hes a hooligan. Ninja 1000 people only drop it on steep inclines in pajama pants when its very cold out.

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Old February 27th, 2017, 04:04 PM   #16
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You are rarely wrong sir, but he crashed his z1000, because hes a hooligan. Ninja 1000 people only drop it on steep inclines in pajama pants when its very cold out.

If I didn't know any better, the way that semi reads... it sounds like you're talking about Andrew.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #17
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Dig at myself from one of our group rides, a friend of mine got it on video
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Old March 1st, 2017, 02:05 PM   #18
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Old March 1st, 2017, 07:58 PM   #19
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 10:37 AM   #20
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After 40+ trackdays and a racing school on 600's and 750's without much progress I decided to buy a 250, it is Nemesis old bike actually- Went to Chuckwalla Friday and had a great time.

I figured I need to get back to basics and learn to ride properly. A couple of my buddies got them also to grid-up with CVMA. Just looks like too much fun!

Cheers
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 10:55 AM   #21
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 10:32 AM   #22
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After 40+ trackdays and a racing school on 600's and 750's without much progress I decided to buy a 250, it is Nemesis old bike actually- Went to Chuckwalla Friday and had a great time.

I figured I need to get back to basics and learn to ride properly. A couple of my buddies got them also to grid-up with CVMA. Just looks like too much fun!

Cheers
CVMA rocks the Ultra light bikes! I raced with them 2 times this winter and couldn't believe the quantity and quality of the riders. Work your way up through this grid and hang with the fast guys there is much to be learned!
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:38 PM   #23
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CVMA rocks the Ultra light bikes! I raced with them 2 times this winter and couldn't believe the quantity and quality of the riders. Work your way up through this grid and hang with the fast guys there is much to be learned!
**** you were there? which rounds were you at? I work as a grid Marshall and race the 250SS class.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 06:51 AM   #24
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**** you were there? which rounds were you at? I work as a grid Marshall and race the 250SS class.
The end of January and February. We came out in January so my son could get some seat time on his ZX6. I didn't bring my bike this round but did in February.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #25
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The end of January and February. We came out in January so my son could get some seat time on his ZX6. I didn't bring my bike this round but did in February.
if you come out again let me know, we can chat and drink some beers!
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