February 22nd, 2017, 10:36 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nick
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 R6, 2015 KTM 250XC - Past: 2011 KTM 150XC, 2009 Ninja 250r, 2012 Ninja 650, 2007 CRF250R Posts: 194
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Ninjette or not? First track bike
It happened.
After 4 years of street riding, too many close calls with gravel, cars, and guardrails, I've gained some sense. I'm turning to the track for my speed fix. Hopefully a summer of open lapping and then I'll start racing. Instinctively I thought I'd buy a cheaper pre-gen or new-gen. I'm not ready to risk riding anything shiny or expensive at the track yet. However, with all the ninjette track junkies here I was wondering what everyone's opinion was about having had a ninjette as their first track bike. If you could advise someone else would you say go for a ninjette or maybe something else like the popular SV650 to start?
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February 22nd, 2017, 10:51 AM | #2 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
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You can't really go wrong with an SV650. They're plentiful, have good aftermarket and race series support, and spares are easy to come by....
.... at least for now. Despite the fact that the SV lives on, it's the Gen 1 and Gen 2 versions that are the go-to for track riders. Those are getting long in the tooth. The newest Gen 2 (pre-Gladius) versions are now nine years old. A newgen Ninjette will be cheaper to run overall, and it'll be easier to find parts for longer. But it'll be slower. Nevertheless, I think it can make a great track bike and an outstanding skills development platform. So bottom line: Flip a coin. Both have their limitations; neither one is a true supersport. But you don't really need a supersport to have a blast on the track. A slower bike will teach you more. On the Ninjette what will wind up happening as you get better is that you'll get passed on every straight, then wind up behind less-skilled riders who park it in the corners. The same will happen on the SV, but not quite so readily. FWIW I see more SVs at the track than Ninjettes. The Ninjettes tend to be ridden by slow-group riders. Faster riders tend to have the SVs. Also FWIW: I know of two riders who moved from their SVs to RC390s.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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February 22nd, 2017, 11:01 AM | #3 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
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PS: If you're patient, keep your eyes peeled and are prepared to jump at a moment's notice, you might stumble into a great track bike for not a lot.
I see you have an 07 R6. My track bike is an 06 R6, with allllllll the goodies up to and including a full Ohlins suspension. I bought it, with a pretty badly dented (but intact) tank and heavily rashed bodywork, for $3,000. I've put about a grand into it in bodywork, less-dented tank, spare wheels for rain tires, etc. Yeah it's got battle scars but it's straight and rides like a dream. It's a far better bike than I am a rider. The thing is awesome and I couldn't ask for more. (Well, I COULD ask for a new CBR1000RR SP, but, well, you know.) The drawback of getting a larger/faster track bike is that the consumables add up. Tires cost a whole lot more, for one thing, and wear out a whole lot faster. And it drinks fuel like nobody's business. I know a guy who rides an S1000RR and pretty much goes through a set of Supercorsas seemingly every track weekend -- at least I'm constantly seeing him buy new tires. Frankly he probably does it a lot more often than he really needs to, but he's got the money.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 22nd, 2017, 11:20 AM | #4 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Hmmm... imho currently
In your shoes I would also go the sv route like Andrew recommends. If your goal is racing, then 100% agree that a lower hp machine is where it's at. Why? Because it will force you to be fast because you ARE... not because you can whack the throttle and make up lost speed. As far as a path to racing, track the sv until your ready to grid up for the first time. And, that first time should be on that sv. Everything will be a known quantity and you can focus on your racing and race protocols vs trying to figure out a new bike. Never know, you might even be competitive right out of the gate. If you go with a ninjette as your first race machine... you will automatically be at a disadvantage in a field of 300's and 390's. After that and when your ready, take that r6 to the track and experience a whole other world of speed in the straights. But.. oddly enough, don't be surprised if your speed in the corners are similar to your smaller cc bike. After racing 600's, nothing really excites me about it aside of watching others do it. Within the rules, it's mostly who has the biggest wallet. You don't experience that as much in the small cc race classes. But first... have you ever been to the track before?
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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February 23rd, 2017, 09:01 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nick
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 R6, 2015 KTM 250XC - Past: 2011 KTM 150XC, 2009 Ninja 250r, 2012 Ninja 650, 2007 CRF250R Posts: 194
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I've been to the poor man's track in the Denver area, IMI, which is small enough to be a go-kart track rather than a true road course. Not the greatest surface anyhow.
I'm also open to a Ninja 300 if the price is right, it was just difficult to imagine paying the premium price, even used. Salvage title 300s seem to pop up regularly though which could be tempting. Plus in Devner the 300 will be limited to the 400 class while the 250 seems to be eligible for a few classes. The SV's can be found from 2-3k fairly regularly, but as Andrew mentioned....they're getting quite old at this point.
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Try it, you might like it. |
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February 23rd, 2017, 09:08 AM | #6 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nick
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 R6, 2015 KTM 250XC - Past: 2011 KTM 150XC, 2009 Ninja 250r, 2012 Ninja 650, 2007 CRF250R Posts: 194
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Quote:
As for a true 600 supersport on the track, it's just not the time for that. I'd rather build my skills on a slower (and cheaper) bike. Maybe a few years down the road.
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February 23rd, 2017, 09:27 AM | #7 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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I've got a buddy that raced a SV for a few years, but sold it last year to get a R3. He felt that to be competitive he needed to get into some serious engine mods, and didn't want to go that route. He's having a blast with the new bike.
Another thing to consider is the new Super Sport 300 class (http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2016/new+champ+category) that will be running with WSB. That should bring a lot more interest to a 300-ish class, and most sanctioning bodies should take notice. A 250 is fine, but if you want to race eventually I think a 300 would be a better starting platform at this point. |
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February 23rd, 2017, 10:27 AM | #8 | |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
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Quote:
Or are you a more conservative and thoughtful rider? A guy who doesn't let peer pressure, wishful thinking or the adrenaline rush get the better of him? A bike doesn't do anything on its own. A smaller, slower bike won't save you if you behave irresponsibly. If you're able to control your right wrist and ride within your limits, there's no problem. I know a guy... young, aggressive, confident, intelligent. He hosted a group ride with the local crew and halfway through I just let them go, because he was doing crap like double-plus the speed limit in residential areas with kids on the street. After that ride some folks in the local group posted saying "sooner or later you're going to get hurt riding that way." His first track day he crashed. Last year he disappeared. Recently he popped up: turns out he'd lost it catching air on a recreational ride... on a Ninja 1000. His body had an unfortunate encounter with a road sign, he suffered a compound leg fracture and almost bled out. Months of rehab ensued. All because he just can't help going fast. I'd bet cash money he'd have crashed anyway, on any bike. He's just that guy who thinks with the wrong head sometimes. His name is Gabe. Don't be like Gabe. I'm an old (now 58) geezer who exemplifies something that people think does not exist: a risk-averse, responsible, non-adrenaline-junkie sportbike rider. Frankly I don't care about going fast. I care about precision. Hell, it took me two years of track riding to scuff my first knee puck. The only two bikes I've ever ridden on the track are my GSX-R750 and the R6. Never a problem. And in 31 years of riding, the only time I've laid a bike down -- ever -- was about a week after I got my license, going less than 10 mph. It's all in the wrist, baby.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 23rd, 2017, 07:12 PM | #9 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nick
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 R6, 2015 KTM 250XC - Past: 2011 KTM 150XC, 2009 Ninja 250r, 2012 Ninja 650, 2007 CRF250R Posts: 194
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Quote:
As that may be, with the R6 at the track I find myself overly cautious out of fear of dropping a shiny bike. To the point I think it's preventing me from progressing. With a less expensive machine those fears will still be in healthy supply, but may be relaxed just enough.
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Try it, you might like it. |
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February 24th, 2017, 11:21 AM | #10 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Al
Location: Orange County, CA
Join Date: Dec 2015 Motorcycle(s): Thruxton R, R6 450 triple, EX300 (sold) Posts: 263
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Quote:
Going off of Csmith's discussions of an SV650, the SV class for racing will be more stable than the 300s. The bikes are plentiful and modded. I think a 300 is also perfect for working on technique at trackdays. I went from two 600s to a 300 and learned a lot more. The low cost and the small size of the 300 definitely helped me stay relaxed. Not having owned an SV, I will say that a 300 would be a great trackbike. However, I will say that the 300s will probably see more changes soon. For now, the Ninja 300 is kind of a protected group with some organizations, but that may change if Kawi updates it with a displacement bump. Just something to consider if you want to go racing. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 25th, 2017, 07:20 AM | #11 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Greg
Location: San Antonio
Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, GSXR-750, Ducati M1100 Posts: 185
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Quote:
As for the choice between the 300 and the SV650, I'd say pick whichever one suits your local track the best. |
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2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
February 25th, 2017, 07:56 AM | #12 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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I was in the same boat my first stint of track riding 20 yrs ago. I had showroom mint GSXRs and the $8k or so I had in them were a major chunk of worry for me. I really recommend a cheap beater of a bike for track riding. Buy one thats already a race bike, they're less expensive than doing it yourself. Tire costs are the other big expense to consider. A 250/300 can race for a season on one set. 1000's go thru a set in a day or two.
I come off the track riding my 250 with a big smile on my face. When I was track riding my 600 as a 20 something yr old, i was pretty much shaking my knees and scared for my life and bike. I guess each of us needs to figure out what works best for himself, its certainly not a one size fits all sort of thing. |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
February 25th, 2017, 01:12 PM | #13 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
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I'm entering my third full year of track riding. I did one day my first year and have done about six days in each of the last two years.
I used my GSX-R, which I bought new, for that first day and the first full year. Before risking it on the track at all, I fitted frame sliders and used race bodywork because factory plastics are stupid expensive. I figured I could resell the race bodywork for about what I paid for it if I decided the track wasn't for me. The bike served very well that first year. But it's my daily ride, so I had to remove all the factory stuff and put the race body on every time I did a track day. That got old really, really fast. Truth be told, that was half the reason I jumped at the chance to pick up a dedicated track bike.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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February 27th, 2017, 07:42 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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Learn how to make the slowest bike turn the fastest lap time. Especially if you are a beginner to racing. Don't allow horsepower to mask your shortcomings as a rider.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 27th, 2017, 03:17 PM | #15 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jay
Location: CT
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2015 636 ABS - 69 Honda 305 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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Current - 2015 30th Anniversary Ninja 636 ABS - 1969 Honda 305 Scrambler Previously - 2011 Ninja 1000, 2008 Ducati 848, 2011 Ninja 250 SE |
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February 27th, 2017, 04:04 PM | #16 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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If I didn't know any better, the way that semi reads... it sounds like you're talking about Andrew.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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February 28th, 2017, 08:03 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jay
Location: CT
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2015 636 ABS - 69 Honda 305 Posts: A lot.
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Dig at myself from one of our group rides, a friend of mine got it on video
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Current - 2015 30th Anniversary Ninja 636 ABS - 1969 Honda 305 Scrambler Previously - 2011 Ninja 1000, 2008 Ducati 848, 2011 Ninja 250 SE |
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March 1st, 2017, 02:05 PM | #18 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Yes
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March 1st, 2017, 07:58 PM | #19 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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I went to High Plains a few years back on the 250 and it was a blast!
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May 22nd, 2017, 10:37 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: gibby
Location: San Diego
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 10
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After 40+ trackdays and a racing school on 600's and 750's without much progress I decided to buy a 250, it is Nemesis old bike actually- Went to Chuckwalla Friday and had a great time.
I figured I need to get back to basics and learn to ride properly. A couple of my buddies got them also to grid-up with CVMA. Just looks like too much fun! Cheers |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
May 22nd, 2017, 10:55 AM | #21 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Awesome Jamey and welcome!
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 23rd, 2017, 10:32 AM | #22 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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Quote:
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May 23rd, 2017, 08:38 PM | #23 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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**** you were there? which rounds were you at? I work as a grid Marshall and race the 250SS class.
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May 24th, 2017, 06:51 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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May 24th, 2017, 03:40 PM | #25 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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if you come out again let me know, we can chat and drink some beers!
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