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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #1
Jiggles
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MOTM - Apr '13
Group Buy: EFI (Fuel Injection) Conversion Kit

http://ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Ninja_250cc_EFI_kit.html

I spoke with a rep from ecotrons.com about a group buy for the EFI Converion kit for the Ninja 250. 3 buyers = 15% off, 5 buyers = 20% off.

UPDATE: 10 buyers = 25% off!!!
Update: Group Buy ends 12/24/11

Converting the bikes over to EFI seems to not be very difficult. Here's a DIY posted by @forbitel http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74579

If you are unaware of the benefits of EFI over carberaturs here's a quick list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
No rejetting with aftermarket exhaust
No problems at varying altitudes (If I move to Colorado from Indiana...)
Better fuel economy
Better emissions levels
No "cold start" issues
More HP

Price with the 20% off will be $480 + shipping and tax where applicable

Price with 25% off will be $450 + shipping and tax where applicable



Repost this list and add your name to it if you are in. Only add your name if you are 100% positive you want to buy this and have the money for it. Someone dropping out of the Group Buy at a later time will negatively affect everyone else associated with it, think carefully before you say Yes. If you are unsure about whether you want this system add yourself to the maybe list.

Sign Me Up!!!
1. @Jiggles
2. @setasai
3. @Daves2JZ
4. @flynjay
5. @EMSRacer07
6. @lgk
7. @justinswidebody
8. @n4mwd
9. @Ninja_Moose
10.
Hmm Maybe....
1. @Jiggles (I might buy a second one for my other Ninja)
2. @sombo (will it work with the pre-gens?) "Yes it will."
3.
4.
5. @etiainen (pending upon functional bike)
6. @Felipe_the_Ant (Scrounging up some bank)
7.
8.
9. @Fly'in Ninja
10.
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Last futzed with by Jiggles; December 19th, 2011 at 11:09 AM.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:28 PM   #2
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Repost this list and add your name to it if you are in. Only add your name if you are 100% positive you want to buy this and have the money for it. Someone dropping out of the Group Buy at a later time will negatively affect everyone else associated with it, think carefully before you say Yes. If you are unsure about whether you want this system add yourself to the maybe list.

Sign Me Up!!!
1. @Jiggles
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Hmm Maybe....
1. @Jiggles (I might buy a second one for my other Ninja)
2. Sombo (will it work with the pre-gens?)
3.
4.
5.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #3
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@sombo I dont see why it wouldn't, if I got a second kit it would be for my pregen. I did just email the rep and I will let you know if it's compatible
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:33 PM   #4
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Sign Me Up!!!
1. @Jiggles
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Hmm Maybe....
1. @Jiggles (I might buy a second one for my other Ninja)
2. Sombo (will it work with the pre-gens?)
3. saxnbass (if local mechanic will install it; I'm afraid of screwing up doing it myself)
4.
5.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #5
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MOTM - Apr '13
Aww cmon it's easy! Read through the DIY and see if you are capable of it
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggles View Post
@sombo I dont see why it wouldn't, if I got a second kit it would be for my pregen. I did just email the rep and I will let you know if it's compatible
I thought the same thing when I volunteered to test out a new jet kit from sportisimoto that was made for the new-gen. Both bikes use the same carburetor but totally different jets internally. That detail escaped us and now I have a jet kit I need to take off my bike and give to a new-gen owner if they want it. So it's better to be sure of it before forking over some $500 for this.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sombo View Post
I thought the same thing when I volunteered to test out a new jet kit from sportisimoto that was made for the new-gen. Both bikes use the same carburetor but totally different jets internally. That detail escaped us and now I have a jet kit I need to take off my bike and give to a new-gen owner if they want it. So it's better to be sure of it before forking over some $500 for this.
From Matt Lee @ecotrons

Quote:
All model years!
Almost as old as you can find.
You in?

I'm also thinking we will be able to sell our carbs and get back quite a bit of the money we put down. The diaphragms alone are quite expensive
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #8
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Im a Maybe if @Jiggles comes and helps me install it. Ill buy the beer
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:46 PM   #9
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MOTM - Apr '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by massacremasses View Post
Im a Maybe if @Jiggles comes and helps me install it. Ill buy the beer
If you want to come to my house I'll certainly help you
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:47 PM   #10
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You have a house or apt.? I thought you were in an apt.?

I was gonna offer my house (even thought its kinda far) for people to come do it at....
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:54 PM   #11
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also is there any power increase? or is it the fact that you can tune it using the ECU make more power easier?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #12
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@sombo, I've done some researching, and consensus is that this kit will work for a pregen, you just have to be creative about a fuel return if you don't want to drill into the tank. They're essentially the same bike anyways. If you go on the Ecotrons site, there's a video of this kit installed on a zzr250. If you do go about installing this, please post a DIY with pictures to help those of us later on down the road who do this. The discussion between me and greg737, and a few others about the fuel return came up with a likely solution that you should look into.


I'm not in on this GB. I'll sit and watch others' progress intently and decide if I should do this later on. I will be especially interested on how the conversion goes with pre-gens and those with pods on their intake/full exhausts etc and see how this system does when put up to the test. I also want to see others' input on the software aspect and once we get enough people with the conversion, we should start a thread similar to the Jetting Database that allows members to post their values for certain setups
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
@sombo, I've done some researching, and consensus is that this kit will work for a pregen, you just have to be creative about a fuel return if you don't want to drill into the tank. They're essentially the same bike anyways. If you go on the Ecotrons site, there's a video of this kit installed on a zzr250. If you do go about installing this, please post a DIY with pictures to help those of us later on down the road who do this. The discussion between me and greg737, and a few others about the fuel return came up with a likely solution that you should look into.


I'm not in on this GB. I'll sit and watch others' progress intently and decide if I should do this later on. I will be especially interested on how the conversion goes with pre-gens and those with pods on their intake/full exhausts etc and see how this system does when put up to the test. I also want to see others' input on the software aspect and once we get enough people with the conversion, we should start a thread similar to the Jetting Database that allows members to post their values for certain setups
I don't believe the pregen will be that different from the newgen... do you?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74579
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #14
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MOTM - Apr '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by massacremasses View Post
You have a house or apt.? I thought you were in an apt.?

I was gonna offer my house (even thought its kinda far) for people to come do it at....
Yep I'm at a house (parents house) also free beer (parents beer, I'm sure they won't mind though haha)
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #15
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I'm sure it will all physically fit (the carbs on new and pregen are the same, just different needles and jets) but it might take a little tuning/dyno time to get a pre-gen running right. It sounds like Ecotrons has done a good job with their customer service and trying to improve their product and get the right size injectors and getting the kinks worked out etc. But i'll be happy to let others be the guinea pigs and ask questions as they work
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Old December 6th, 2011, 04:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggles View Post
Yep I'm at a house (parents house) also free beer (parents beer, I'm sure they won't mind though haha)
heller diiiick. HAHAHA pro
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Old December 6th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #17
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haha ohhh well I dont even drink I just would buy drinks for people who want em.



buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I guess this doesnt need much of a shop but I have a key to my work where we have tools, welders, and so much stuuufff to use But im afraid I am not confident enough in my riding skills to ride all the way to the bay...
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Old December 6th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #18
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Given the better fuel economy, what's the expected break-even point on this kit?

Assuming a generous 5% increase in fuel economy, I'm calculating that you save money after you've hit 250,660 miles with the kit installed. Does that sound about right?

I do get that that's not the point of the kit...
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Old December 6th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii View Post
Given the better fuel economy, what's the expected break-even point on this kit?

Assuming a generous 5% increase in fuel economy, I'm calculating that you save money after you've hit 250,660 miles with the kit installed. Does that sound about right?

I do get that that's not the point of the kit...
Ah but your forgetting about selling your carbs!!!
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Old December 6th, 2011, 08:30 PM   #20
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how much do you think it would cost to pay a mechanic to have the kit put in for you??
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Old December 6th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heylookitsfranco View Post
how much do you think it would cost to pay a mechanic to have the kit put in for you??
I imagine it would take a pro 3 hours tops

I'm sure you can do it yourself though
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Old December 6th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #22
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If you're going to have a shop do anything, have them install the o2 bungs and the return in the tank. the rest of it seems like a pretty straight foreward swap
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Old December 6th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #23
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hrmm. anyone wanna lend me $500?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 10:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heylookitsfranco View Post
hrmm. anyone wanna lend me $500?
Sell your ninja, that should cover it
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Old December 7th, 2011, 12:21 AM   #25
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Ok, we got 2 yes's and 4 "Gee IDK MANG"s including myself
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Old December 7th, 2011, 02:34 PM   #26
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I've done some researching, and consensus is that this kit will work for a pregen, you just have to be creative about a fuel return if you don't want to drill into the tank.
The whole issue behind plumbing the excess fuel pump output back to the tank is heat related. The problem with a continuous, one-speed pump system (most FI systems are) is that as the pump operates and pressurizes the fuel it also puts heat into the fuel. With nothing to draw off the heat on the return loop the fuel will reach the temperature at which it transitions to a vapor, then the fuel pump will cavitate and the engine will lose fuel pressure and stall.

There are two ways to off-load that heat: a. send the fuel back into the fuel tank, or b. install a fuel cooler on the return loop, and a one way to completely avoid the constant loop heat problem: configure the system with an "on-demand" returnless system.

On my 2005 old-gen EX-250 "do-it-yourself" FI system I installed a fuel cooler on the return loop. It's a Flexalite 4130 cooler that I modified (cut down) to make the radiator section about 3 and 1/2 inches long. I mounted it on the bottom of the K&N 0990 air filter. My fuel system stays nice and cool.

If you're doing an Ecotrons conversion on an old-gen EX-250 (that doesn't have a California emissions fuel tank) then you might want to consider a fuel cooler installation.

Or, if you're curious about the "on-demand" returnless configuration, look at this site: http://www.madhu.com/content/Main/FuelPumpController

The real selling point for an "on-demand" returnless configuration is that is uses less electrical power.

Last futzed with by greg737; December 7th, 2011 at 05:41 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #27
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Ok I'm 100% in on this but in no rush ( willing to hold out for 5 peeps) I will also offer up my cerveses to anyone that would like to come to my home in SoCal for free. I'm a certified tig welder and a efi tuner from the car world.

O and by free I mean I will do all the things you can't such as welding for you. I won't install your kit as you watch. I will teach you to work on your bike and make shore your don't do anything wrong.
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Old December 8th, 2011, 08:17 PM   #28
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Cool @Daves2JZ I'd love to come down to LA but thats just too damn far haha. I'm planning on having this group buy go through sometime in January/February.
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Old December 8th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #29
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Lol yea it was a general invite to all. That timing works well will be getting the area race pipe and pod air filter to add to the install witch isnt on my christmas list.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 05:05 PM   #30
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Few questions, how many watts total does everything draw? Are the O2 sensors heated? Or wideband? Also, will the throttle bodies connect to the stock pre-gen air box?

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Old December 10th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #31
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Yes, the Ecotrons kit O2 sensors are wide-band. You have to have wide-band O2 sensors if you want the ECU to be able to perform an autotune function.

And since wide-band O2 sensors are always heated, yes they are heated (narrow-band O2 sensors are not heated).
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Old December 10th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #32
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I'd so be in if my ninja was functioning
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Old December 10th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etiainen View Post
I'd so be in if my ninja was functioning
So then you're a maybe?

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Old December 11th, 2011, 11:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etiainen View Post
I'd so be in if my ninja was functioning
Why is it not functioning? If it's carb related then this would make it functioning.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #35
etiainen
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Oh I wish ....my brother decided to not listen to me and stripped a cam cap cover bolt, just dropped the engine today and got it out. Hopefully I can be running soon...what a pita though ...
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Old December 11th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #36
Felipe the Ant
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Oh man I want this. I need to scrounge up some money though.

It's gonna hurt punching holes in my shiny yoshi pipe for O2 sensors
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Old December 11th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #37
flynjay
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I'm in. So tired of carbs and cold weather. Sooner the better.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #38
setasai
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Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
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Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

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Quote:
Originally Posted by etiainen View Post
Oh I wish ....my brother decided to not listen to me and stripped a cam cap cover bolt, just dropped the engine today and got it out. Hopefully I can be running soon...what a pita though ...
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Ouch well sounds like you'll be able to get it running before the group buy goes through so we'll check up with you just in case you're interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant View Post
Oh man I want this. I need to scrounge up some money though.

It's gonna hurt punching holes in my shiny yoshi pipe for O2 sensors
You got time. It'll be better to get a certified welder to do it so it looks professional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flynjay View Post
I'm in. So tired of carbs and cold weather. Sooner the better.
Amen to that bro! Sweet, we'll add you to the list.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #39
Jiggles
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Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette

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MOTM - Apr '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250 View Post
Few questions, how many watts total does everything draw? Are the O2 sensors heated? Or wideband? Also, will the throttle bodies connect to the stock pre-gen air box?
"The total current draw is 3A.
Yes both o2 are heated, as needed. Not 100% duty cycle.
Both are NB .
Yes TB will connect to pre models with some rigid pipe adaptor exactly taylored ."
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Old December 11th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #40
Guoseph
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For those of you guys in the bay area, where do you plan to take your exhaust to get the O2 bung welded on?
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