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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:30 PM   #1
g21-30
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DIY - Replace the '08+ CDI (Ignitor) with the '88-94 CDI

As I mentioned in this thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26496), my bike has been suffering from the CDI changing its performance characteristics after the bike warms up. I will have to give thanks to Racer x for taking this path first and his encouragement for me to do the same.

This morning I cut the two connectors for the old CDI off the '90 wiring harness and stopped by Advance Auto for a package of "7 quick connectors." I thought that was a coincidence, since there are 7 wires to connect!

After taking off the side panels, in order to remove the seat, I then removed the passenger seat and the rear cowls, which surround the lock mechanism that secures the passenger seat.

Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures while doing the mod. Instead, I went back after the fact and got the pictures.

The following picture details which bolts (yellow arrows) retain the lock, etc. The white arrow shows the relay that must be removed. After removing the relay and the bolts, the lock unit can hang off the left side of the bike (picture was too blurry to post).



Bolts being removed.






Removing the relay. Just lift it up and off.



The Igniter (CDI) can now just be lifted up and the harness connector removed. Here it is after removal.



After removing the original CDI and disconnecting the original wiring harness, I then used a razor knife and carefully sliced down the center of the harness and peeled back the electrical tape. This exposed the eight wires; however, only 7 will be re-used, since the '88-94 CDI only has 7 connections!!

Next it was just a matter of connecting 6 matching pairs of colored wires. The one remaining wire pair (solid Red ['88] and Brown with black stripe ['08+]) were then connected. Just to show how confident I was that this was going to work, I didn't bother disconnecting the battery. Just make sure the Red and Br/Bk are the last wires connected and DON'T let the plyers touch the frame.

This picture shows all the wire pairs connected, prior to being stuffed next to the CDI. Keep in mind there is only about 4 inches of wiring harness in which to place seven (7) tap connectors!



This is the connector used for taping into each wire:



Here is the CDI in its final resting place, with the wires stuffed on the left side. The white arrows point to the rubber insulator mounting tabs. Notice that the right one had to be sliced on one end, since the '09 tab is too large to fit the insulator. I could have trimmed the plastic tab, but chose the rubber for modification.



This picture details the cut rubber insulator. That is the tip of the JIS screwdriver pointing to rubber cut.



At this point, I opened up the garage door, choked the engine with the bike in neutral and the kick stand up (more on this in a minute), turned the key on and hit the start button. YES, it started right up! I lowered the RPMs via the choke and turned the ignition off. I quickly replaced the cross piece and the lock mechanism for the passenger seat and put the rear turn signal flasher back on its post and ran inside to put on ATGATT!

Once I backed the bike out of the garage and started it up with the choke, etc. I made sure it was in neutral and put the kickstand down. The engine went DEAD! After getting my stomach out of my throat, I put the kickstand up and proceeded to start it up again...successfully. This time I put in first and eased the clutch out and it started to move. OK, took it out of gear and let the clutch out. The bike didn't move. Put down the kickstand....DEAD engine again. Fine, I got off the bike and closed the garage door. Got back on and put the kickstand up and fired it up again and went for a test ride.

As I hinted in the first paragraph, this is a completely different animal now...meaning increased performance. Before, the bike was idling at 1500 RPMs after warming up. Now it is closer to 1300 RPMs. Here's the kicker, it pulls harder (seat of the pants sensation) and keeps pulling to 13K RPMs. It would have gone higher, but I shifted there. Also, since I didn't reinstall the passenger seat and the rear cowls or the side pieces beneath the seat, my BUTT was really getting HOT! That's why I made the earlier statement about the CDI really gets hot. Even with that heat, the New ('88-94) CDI never varied. Sixth gear at 50 MPH was 6000 RPM ....cold, warm, hot, and hotter.

One last note, when I got home, I made sure the bike was in neutral and put the kickstand down. Yep, the engine DID NOT shut off. It DID slow down, like something was trying to shut if off, so I put it back up and the engine went back to normal. (See later post on the kickstand issue.)

The bottom line of this experiment is that I have spent less than $65 total and invested roughly one hour of my time for the installation. Just to take the bike into my non-believing dealer would have cost me more time and I would have been without the bike. So I feel it is a success.

Last futzed with by g21-30; August 17th, 2009 at 09:40 AM.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 03:01 PM   #2
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Sounds like a success, but why is your bike behaving that way with the kick stand now? That's kind of odd...
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Old August 15th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #3
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Cool man..congrats on the job well done.
btw, becareful of the more advanced timing...might cause your engine to knock so watch out for that. This bike doesn't have a knock sensor to retard timing...also becareful of the higher setting of the rev. limiters.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #4
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Very cool, good job.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 04:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomwalk101 View Post
Cool man..congrats on the job well done.
btw, becareful of the more advanced timing...might cause your engine to knock so watch out for that. This bike doesn't have a knock sensor to retard timing...also becareful of the higher setting of the rev. limiters.
I was worried that it might start pinging, but I didn't hear any. Of course, that doesn't mean it won't in the future.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #6
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yeah, if you have a tank of bad gas or hot weather or whatever...anything is possible.
I ride with ear plug & the aftermarket exhaust is loud (CF Yosh) so I'm sure i won't hear jack...
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Old August 15th, 2009, 06:32 PM   #7
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I have the BTR_TIS ignition system now and with raised compression . I have ventured close to 50 deg of ignition advance and not had any problem with pre ignition. When I used the 88-94 CDI I never once heard a ping.I did have terrible detonation with the cam timing advanced to far.but after correcting that it is fine. All on 93 octane pump gas
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Old August 15th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #8
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Pretty cool! So what color wire was left over?

I havent seen a schematic on 94 below, but 95 up seem to all have 8 wires on the ignition module.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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The gray one on the bike side
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Old August 15th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #10
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'88-94 Schematic

Here is the relevant page from the service manual.

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Old August 16th, 2009, 04:02 AM   #11
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The side stand switch just grounds the black /yellow wire. Did you test for ground at the black/yellow wire?
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Old August 16th, 2009, 10:15 AM   #12
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this is an interesting item - another option would be to make a jumper harness if one could find an appropriate plug
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Old August 16th, 2009, 10:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
The side stand switch just grounds the black /yellow wire. Did you test for ground at the black/yellow wire?
On the '08+, the connection is made with the stand up and broken when it's down.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #14
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I just got back from a 2 hour ride with no problems.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 10:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by g21-30 View Post
I just got back from a 2 hour ride with no problems.
care to share your impressions of the improvements/changes to the powerband/responsiveness?
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Old August 16th, 2009, 11:03 AM   #16
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care to share your impressions of the improvements/changes to the powerband/responsiveness?
It feels like it has more power, but this maybe because the power had gradually deteriorated and I wasn't aware of it. It reminded me of how the bike performed right after upgrading to the dynojet needles/shims and removing the snorkel.

Now the snorkel is back on the bike because I was going to take it in for CDI replacement under the warranty. As I stated earlier, the dealer says there is no problem; therefore, it won't be going to the dealer. I may remove the snorkel later, but right now I'm happy.

I know this perceived improvement is based on one or two bikes if Racer x confirms his. I wish that I could give you hard facts, i.e. dyno run before and after, but that's not going to happen. It does look like the gas mileage is improving, after today's ride. I say that because of the current odometer reading and what the gas gauge is showing. My gauge normally would be reading around a quarter of a tank with the mileage that is showing. Instead it is still at or over a half tank.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #17
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Below is some info I combined from the other thread and a comparison of the timing for both years '88 and '08.

After more research, I now know that I have the non-CA, i.e. US version of the '88-04 CDI. The relevant part numbers are: 21119-1229 (US) and 21119-1233 (CA). Per the attached picture from the '88 Service Manual, it looks like the timing can vary roughly 5 degrees thru-out the power curve!




'88-94 - Timing specs: 10 degrees BTDC @ 1300 RPM / 42 degrees BTDC @ 4500 RPM

'08-09 - Timing specs: 10 degrees BTDC @ 1300 RPM / 35 degrees BTDC @ 4000 RPM
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Old August 16th, 2009, 11:12 AM   #18
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advancing ignition timing has always been a cheap, easy way to pick some power/torque at the lower end of the powerband. your engine should run a bit cooler as well.

I wonder how what you've done would compare to those ignition advancers they sell? that way one wouldn't need to worry about over revving beyond the current redline.

good work. now if I can see about making my later pregen CDI that I bought work on the new gen.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #19
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Old August 16th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #20
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Lockout starter circuit looks a bit different on the newer model.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 08cdi.jpg (79.7 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg 08 ig.jpg (73.3 KB, 77 views)
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Old August 16th, 2009, 02:14 PM   #21
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The important thing about the wiring is.You must get a wiring harness from the same year as the CDI . The diagrams do not show the pin positions .and they are all different.

I rode with the 88-94 ICU box and even raced it at the drag strip . I never got a chance to take it to Maxton . But having the 15000 rpm rev limit was not a problem . The engine dose not make power past 12000 rpm and you would only be able to get the engine that high in the lower gears. even then you would have to really mean to do it.

I tried shifting at 14000 rpm and went slower in the 1/4 mile than when I shifted at 11500 RPM.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 02:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
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The important thing about the wiring is.You must get a wiring harness from the same year as the CDI . The diagrams do not show the pin positions .and they are all different.
My CDI is an '89, while the harness is a '90. My thought was anything was OK, as long as it came from an '88-94.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 04:32 PM   #23
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The wires from the CDI are the same, with the addition of the Gray (GY) wire going to the ignition switch.
Wiring for the lockout is different, You know for your kickstand killing the motor in neutral. The older cdi is not seeing a good ground with the newer wiring. Compare the schematics: In the old your going thru a couple diodes in parallel for a good ground(neutral sw & clutch sw). In the newer wiring your going thru diodes in series(neutral sw) and loosing the clutch switch to neutral switch path. Every diode is resistance, and the older wiring would have less.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 05:05 PM   #24
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Here's the Starter Circuit illustrated in the '88-94 service manual:



And yes, I see what you mean.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 06:10 PM   #25
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My CDI is an '89, while the harness is a '90. My thought was anything was OK, as long as it came from an '88-94.

Sorry for the confusion .I meant year span . From 1995 to 2007 it is a different wiring harness. The plugs are in different locations. I found out the hard way purchasing a 2002 harness the first time I tried to make this work.

If you want to use a 95 to 2007 ICU you will need a harness from a 95-07
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Old August 16th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #26
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My experience with playing around with timing is anything 42 and over needs 93 octane minimum. Other wise things like to go boom.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 07:04 PM   #27
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what's the maximum timing for 87 octane?
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Old August 16th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #28
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what's the maximum timing for 87 octane?
I'd say 42, as that's what the stock CDI for the pregens deliver and based on what ztrack just said.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #29
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Well they tweaked the engine between new and old. 87 octane you should be no higher than 40 or 41 but I will double check that. I run 41 at high rpms and use 91 octane with a booster
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Old August 17th, 2009, 05:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky nrk View Post
this is an interesting item - another option would be to make a jumper harness if one could find an appropriate plug
Finally, I found the appropriate connector. The bottom connector in the below picture is what the '08+ wiring harness connector looks like. Thus the top connector would be the one to use for my adaptor! Not a bad price, either.

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Old August 17th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #31
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Ohhh..am I hearing "plug & play"?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:34 PM   #32
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Would you share the name of the supplier and did you happen to locate there the connector part #'s that would plug into the older CDI's ?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 08:04 PM   #33
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Would you share the name of the supplier and did you happen to locate there the connector part #'s that would plug into the older CDI's ?
Sure, I don't mind sharing. Here's the info:



You need the two connectors shown side by side in the lower part of the above picture, along with 8 pin male sealed connector previously pictured, which is available here:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/El...FKWH/fkwh.html

The owner of Eastern Beaver also said the following connectors are the same as the ones pictured above (from the '88-94 harness):

Those are 4 and 6PF250 connectors.
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html

I decided not to purchase the 4 and 6PF250 connectors, as it looked like they didn't lock the same way the original's do. They need to lock on the old CDI, not vice versa!

Rather than spend $60 for the crimper tool to do the round sealed connectors from Eastern Beaver, I ordered the $16 crimper pictured here:


http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/connectors.html

The owner of Oregon Motorcycle told me that he has used the $16 crimper successfully on round connectors. It will also work on all the other connectors used on the Ninja!

FYI, as recently as this afternoon there are still used '88-94 harnesses available as low as $18.95 and CDIs, also.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 05:55 AM   #34
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^^ great I love the idea of clean sealed plug installation
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Old August 21st, 2009, 06:08 AM   #35
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Sam,

Much appreciated info....I Googled the stink out of electrical connectors and couldn't find that site. BTW, the picture of the male connectors on the old harness look like the 4SPF250/6SPF250's don't they ?...on relook, I guess not, female/male sides are switched.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 06:17 AM   #36
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Great work yet again Sam. To make a truly plug and play setup would make this very attractive to many people.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 06:40 AM   #37
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I got the harness off eBay you pictured for $16.50 and got a bid in for the $45.00 CDI so will order the 8 pin male connector now...count me in as a new recruit in the Army of Northern Virginia ! Edit...8 pin ordered
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:05 PM   #38
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...on relook, I guess not, female/male sides are switched.
Bingo, it wouldn't be a secure connection with 2 female connectors looking at each other!
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:32 PM   #39
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Great work yet again Sam. To make a truly plug and play setup would make this very attractive to many people.
Ryan, thanks for the compliment. I wish I had your talent. Unfortunately, I'm a "jack of all trades" and master of only a few.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:36 PM   #40
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Edit...8 pin ordered
Craig, congrats on taking the blind faith leap. I pm'd you with a "buy it now" CDI, if your bid doesn't win! Just keep watching them. I was outbid by $.50 a few weeks ago on a CDI ($20.50!)
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