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Old February 29th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #1
Sonofswin
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Fuel Injection Map Database - Discussion Thread

Fuel Injection Map Database - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussing Fuel Injection maps either related or not related to the Fuel Injection Map Database. If you have suggestions for adding/removing info from the Fuel Injection Map Database then let me know here.

I've been really surprised at the lack of discussion regarding mapping for the 250R. I know that there are people out there with fuel injected bikes, using Power Commanders and the Leo Vince Fast Injection ecu's, not to mention all those guys & gals installing their own Ecotrons and what-not - So where is the discussion? There must be some pro's lurking in the shadows somewhere - willing to spill their guts to any newbie eager to listen.

So let'er rip y'all!! Let's get'er done!!
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Old March 4th, 2012, 05:03 AM   #2
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Maps

Okay, I feel like I'm talking to myself here, but I've got nowhere else to go with this.

I've put a Power Commander V in my 2011 FI Ninja and have recently bought a Tyga Full Racing Exhaust. Before I install the exhaust, I need a map for the PCV. The quote I got today for mapping on a dyno was about $600 and I would have to give them my bike for a week. Not gonna happen.

I have a map for the full Yoshimura exhaust. However, I was told by Tyga Performance:

Some independent tests comparing the Yoshi pipe to ours would show that the Yoshi pipe is a little more free flowing, so the map required for that may be a fraction rich for our pipe. But it would probably be a good starting point if you are able to fiddle with it a little.

In riding tests between ours and Yoshimura's pipe the general consensus was that the Yoshi was too top end biased and as such was left a little lacking in the bottom and midrange. Probably OK if you're drag racing.


There is a place nearby where I may be able to just Dyno the bike (haven't checked prices, but they don't do mapping so...)

Anyway, has anyone here done their own map adjustments? Any advice or recommendations?

If I remove my snorkel then use the Yoshimura map for full exhaust with snorkel, would that lean it out? If I do adjust the map myself, any ideas of how much I should lean it out and where in the tp/rpm curve?

I realize that every bike and situation is different. I also realize that a lot of people that have their bikes mapped have paid a lot of money and don't want to just give them away. I'm just looking for advice at this point.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #3
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Good idea for a thread.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #4
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@Sonofswin, removing the snorkel will lean it out just a tad. It would be a good starting place with the yoshi map. You could remove the snorkel and go from there.

A dyno run, even some place that doesn't do mapping, will get you a good AFR vs. RPM read-out that you can then use to adjust your numbers in the PowerCommander map accordingly. I would say within 3 dyno runs like that, you should be able to get it mapped pretty well on your own, assuming you're ok with the software that the PC comes with.

Download Yoshi map.
Test ride to see if you think it needs changed at all.
remove snorkel.
test ride to see how if that makes it better or worse and if the map needs to be changed at all.
Base run.
adjust the map a little according to the AFR vs RPM data.
Run 2.
Adjust the map a little more according to the AFR vs RPM data.
Run 3.
Hopefully it's right by then. If not, you should have it close enough that it's ride-able and nearly perfect.


Just make sure that you have the intake/exhaust setup that you want before you start doing dyno runs so that you don't have to start all over if you decide to make a change

EDIT: if you install the Yoshi map and pull the snorkel, and decide that you like the way it feels, getting a base run on the dyno is still a really good idea to be sure that you're within safe AFR ratios throughout the RPM's.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #5
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Thanks for the reply Chris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Sonofswin, removing the snorkel will lean it out just a tad. It would be a good starting place with the yoshi map. You could remove the snorkel and go from there.
It's good to know I'm on the right track. I was thinking of installing a switch (The PCV lets you change between 2 maps on the fly with a switch.) then installing the Yoshi maps with and w/out the snorkel. That way, I can test ride it for the Full Yoshi with snorkel, see how it feels, then switch to the map for having the snorkel removed - and compare right there in the same environment.

I would then remove my snorkel and do it again. Figured that should allow me to choose the best set-up from the 4 possibilities. Following that I would do the dyno runs and check the AFR/RPM data so I could fine tune whichever map I chose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Just make sure that you have the intake/exhaust setup that you want before you start doing dyno runs so that you don't have to start all over if you decide to make a change
Unless this pipe is extremely loud, this will be the set-up that I intend to run from here on out. I like to be able to hear the engines of my machines and with the stock pipes I can't hear it when I'm riding at mid-range RPMs. Also because of the narrow, winding roads that I usually ride here, I like that the Tyga exhaust gives good response in the mid-range, where I'm usually at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
...to be sure that you're within safe AFR ratios throughout the RPM's.
Do you have any idea what the max/min safe ratios would be? The Power Commander guy here said they try to map for 13.7 throughout on the Ninjette, I'd like to know what kind of range I can work in.

Thanks again for your help.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #6
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Well 14.7 is the "perfect" stoich ratio where all the o2 and all the fuel is burnt. (but it doesn't pull as hard as a rich mixture) Anything higher than that is lean. From all the dyno curves I've seen from my shop, they try and tune to a 14.0 at top end, and then the midrange in the middle somewhere where it feels best and is most responsive.

I would say tune to the specs that your local shop suggests you tune to, that way you have some guidance and help when you ask questions.

EDIT: if the yoshi map is a little rich on your system, using that map and removing the snorkel *should be* pretty close. On a carbed bike, removing the snorkel with a full system requires either one size larger jet, or just makes the bike pull a little harder with the oem jets, which are a little rich. I think you might have the same effect, but you have a couple maps to switch around between which is really nice.

Heck, you might be able to nail it just by switching between the 4 options that you plan on testing.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #7
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Mapping Adventure Update

So, I've been playing with the Power Commander maps on my bike for a while now and am hopefully getting closer.

[Note: I've attached a PDF showing the map data below for those of you who may be interested. The numbers are the percent change in the amount of fuel per given RPM & Throttle Position. Colored areas are where I've adjusted the data for my maps.]

The stock map [PDF page 3] worked wonders for the bike when it was all stock. It was a totally new experience.

Then, I put on the Tyga Racing exhaust, pulled my snorkel off and started using the Yoshimura maps [PDF pages 4 & 5] , starting with the "2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250 European model – Yoshi Full w/out Baffle" (Map # M17-035-503). It was alright, but I got a lot of popping on deceleration and a bit of backfire every now and then. So, I switched to the "2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250 European model – Yoshi Full w/ Baffle" (Map # M17-035-502). It seemed a bit better, but not a major difference except at the higher RPM's - where I notice much better pull to the red line. (I could red line it in 6th on the highway. )

Still a bit of popping around 4000~6000 RPM on deceleration, so {in my belief that running rich was causing the popping} I adjusted the map [PDF page 1] by leaning it out in those areas. It seemed to work and the bike ran very well on a 3 hour twisty adventure in the mountains. BUT, the mechanic I was riding with said I should plug the KLEEN system to stop the popping and upon doing that the next day, I found that my fairing was being melted by the exhaust (See thread here.) which started a whole 'nother adventure.

So, to make a long story short, he said I was probably running too lean, (plugs look alright to me, but they've been in there since I got the bike and I've only run this set-up for about 1000km. You guys think it looks lean?) making the engine too hot and causing the popping on decel. SO, I have adjusted the map much more broadly [PDF page 2] . I will install it tomorrow before heading to work and if it works well, I will post it in the Map Database.

Then all I need to do is take it up north and check my AFR/RPM on the dyno at the Harley shop to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.

As usual, any advice/comments/good 1-liners will be appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Plug June 2012.jpg (104.1 KB, 7 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Map Data June 4 2012.pdf (74.8 KB, 29 views)
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 06:09 AM   #8
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Autotune

So, I've gone ahead and installed an autotune, because it's still cheaper than a one-off dyno mapping that may not be best from one season to the next.

Attached are the AFR Targets that I've set, compared to the Dynojet targets that they set for all their maps for this bike including the fuel adjustment tables.

(-10 = 10% leaner than stock, 10 = 10% richer)

my targets are according to this info that I found on this site:

Air/Fuel Ratio Limits
6.0:1 Rich run limit
9.0:1 Low power, black smoke
11.5:1 Rich best torque at WOT
12.5:1 Safe best power at WOT
13.2:1 Lean best torque at WOT
14.7:1 Chemically ideal
15.5:1 Lean light load, part throttle
16.2:1 Best economy, part throttle
18-22:1 Lean run limit


in addition to the Dynojet advice to set target AFR in the cruise range (5%~20% TPR) to somewhere around 14 for better mileage.

My question: Does anyone think that the seemingly large adjustments being made to my fuel adjustment tables are extreme? They seem a bit larger than I would expect when compared to the Yoshimura w/ baffle map. (My original base map)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf My map V5.pdf (38.9 KB, 51 views)
File Type: pdf Yoshimura w Baffle.pdf (37.8 KB, 26 views)
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Old August 19th, 2012, 03:44 AM   #9
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Hey Mike,

I've been looking to your map and now I wonder because in many rpm's it's set to partly very lean and thank you for sharing it.
I'm using the Leovince-Map from their website, but I've seen that's not so good for my bike, because in the range where they'd set it up very lean I have many popping noise and so I'd set it up to oem-zero and starting at tps 53% I go a little bit to rich, so now this popping noise is gone.
But from 4750 rpm to 6500 rpm the Leovince-setup is rich and I went a little bit more to lean, because in this range I still have popping noise which I think is coming from too rich (like the old Porsche 911 Carrera RSR in race-trim, which have been very rich) and the next time I'll try do go back to a little bit more lean.
At least my setup is rich to very rich but the sound is good, also the accelerating is smooth now and it's very quick and powerful.
I know that my setup isn't the optimum, but here we don't have a dyno-shop to go to and so I'll live with this rich setup (better to rich then to lean).
Until now I've already been using to gastanks full of gasoline for testing and I think it'll be some more...
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Old August 19th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [MENTION=6292
Somchai;550120]...in many rpm's it's set to partly very lean...
Hey, thanks for the question/information!!

I set the cruise range (5%~20% TPR) to 13.7 because Dynojet said that for better fuel efficiency, it should be around 14. However, lately, I am thinking I may set it down to 13.5 or even lower. I will probably copy the Yoshimura map. I notice that the Autotune is making some really big adjustments to try to match my target AFR's. The adjustments should slowly get smaller, but they aren't.

Have you plugged the KLEEN system on your bike? That helped reduce a lot of the popping for me, but I still get it when decelerating. Also, LeoVince recommends putting 2 large holes in your airbox when running their exhaust to improve the breathing. Have you done that?


I wonder if my 60%+ TPR is too rich. I want maximum performance when I open the throttle so I chose 12.5 from this information:

Air/Fuel Ratio Limits
6.0:1 Rich run limit
9.0:1 Low power, black smoke
11.5:1 Rich best torque at WOT
12.5:1 Safe best power at WOT
13.2:1 Lean best torque at WOT
14.7:1 Chemically ideal
15.5:1 Lean light load, part throttle
16.2:1 Best economy, part throttle
18-22:1 Lean run limit


But I think I should lean it out a little and try to get better torque.

There isn't a Dyno around here either so I can't take it in for testing. I'm hoping to just do it all myself using the Autotune. Are you using an AFR meter? or does the LeoVince have an O2 sensor on it?

Let me know how your changes work.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:46 AM   #11
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@Sonofswin

Hey Mike,

thanks again for your answer.
Yes, I've plugged the KLEEN-Airsystem but I didn't make the holes in the airbox. This is stock now but I'll install a K&N airfilter next time.
I took out the cat (must be) and also put in the o2-sensor removal plug (removed the 02-sensor, must be also) and my ignition is advanced by 5 degrees. And I use Motul 300V 15W50 the best oil you can take, giving a smooth shifting and better power. Since I only ride by daytime I also use LED's in the headlight so I have a very low power consumption with all in LED's. The only thing on my Ninjette that's not changed until now is the gastank and the transmission.
I have a very interesting link for you, but excuse me it's in german language so please use guckel to translate it for you. They say using autotune doesn't make any sense because the map should be done in accelerating and not in deaccelerating (I think from this situation the lean settings at your bike are coming from?) and also it may never be a bouncing castle with big jumps like yours the difference should not be higher then 5 per cent.
Please read this: http://www.bdperformance.net/autotune_selfmapping.html
Which 02-sensor do you use, do you use the stock? This one will never work for setup any mapping, you need a Bosch LSU 4.2 or 4.9 (wideband).
Today I didn't go out because I just came back. My setting from yesterday feels fine already, but I'd change it a little bit more to lean in the range from 4750 rpm to 7000 rpm and this I test tomorrow.
I just do it by feeling since I know how my Ninjette runs (I know what you think now...), but that's the same we did long ago with the racing cars, give it setting from ground on and then test, test, test...
The best I've ever seen in my life was an old mechanic in Italy setting up the TWELF (12) carburetor from a Ferrari by just only listening. It took him round about one hour and I've been looking all that time. And after that it worked fantastic the owner said. Outstanding mechanics like this man already passed away.
I attach my mapping for you can see what I did until now.

Good luck for you

Update:
Now I found the best setup for my Ninjette, even when there's still sometimes a little bit popping while deccelerating in the range from 7000 rpm down to 5500 rpm, but it's very rare now.
I think my setup is really rich as i have it now, because my water temperature stays down at 70 to 75 celsius while my oil temperature is at 86 celsius (the outside temperature now is up to 40 celsius). When i wait at the signals for maybe 3 to 4 minutes my water temperature goes high to 96 celsius under that conditions.
The accelerating is very smooth without any delay and it feels really powerful.
I'd also setup my suspension now a little bit lower in the front by 5mm (0.2 inch?) and now she turns better in the curves (for me it feels much better and easier now).
The level of my oil (15W with the FEGV from Race Tech) is setup at 106mm (the highest point) and the front feels really stiff now, what I prefer, but at bumps and also holes in the street she runs very smooth over or through (excuse me please here i don't know the right words and so i hope you understand what i mean?).
So what to say: After all the fine-tune now i enjoy riding...
I attach my new mapping, but please, if you use it, always remember about my special setup so it must not be the best at another bike and i always prefer more to go rich instead of lean (i'd never care about mpg).

Last futzed with by Somchai; September 6th, 2012 at 10:07 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 01:04 AM   #12
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Hey Roland,

Thanks for the response. The link was really informative. After doing some additional research, I find that you are right. The way that I have been letting the Autotune make my map has been wrong. I think that I will post a full How-to at a later date from a site I found while doing research on it. It's just going to take me a while to make the time to do it.

Long story short --> The deceleration is what was causing the big differences in the map. I have switched back to the map for a Yoshimura Full exhaust with a baffle. This should be close enough for me to start to make a better map. (Now that I finally know what I'm doing.)

My O2 sensor is the Bosch LSU 4.9 (wideband) that came with the new Autotune. I hope it lasts longer than that article suggested. So far, so good. But next time I take my fairings off, I'll make sure to test it.

I agree with you that testing and changing by ear and by feel are the best way to tune an engine. (It's how I've tuned all my pre-FI cars.) I was just worried about being too lean, and with my exhaust I could never hear any knocking if it came up.

I too installed a stiffer suspension recently. I like it, but it is a whole different ride now. It's amazing how much easier the bike will turn.

Once I get my new map set up (It will take a while.) I will post it in the FI map database. Until then, I hope to find the time to post an Autotune how-to and even more important - Ride, Ride, Ride!!

Hope you find some good curves this weekend!
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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:25 AM   #13
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Hey mike, I finally did something I've been avoiding for quiet a while now, for the same reason as you. I installed my k&n 0990 air filter, deleting the air box completely. I'm running a full yoshimura map with stock air filter and it seems to be running ok. My exhaust is an akrapovic rip off and I'm not running the baffle in it. How would I know of the bike was running lean? Is it a popping sound during deceleration or something else?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:32 PM   #14
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can still check the plugs but you should get it dynoed and get a wideband installed.

its the only way to be sure, when customizing.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:13 PM   #15
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Hans you're in the best position to make beneficial use of this advantage: http://www.bikoholic.com/2012/03/ecu...ports-for.html

And if you do, please keep us informed.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgk View Post
can still check the plugs but you should get it dynoed and get a wideband installed.

its the only way to be sure, when customizing.
Yeah, I can smell unburnt fuel when I rev the bike, what does that mean? I know the fuel isn't being burnt fully, so is the bike rich or lean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somchai View Post
Hans you're in the best position to make beneficial use of this advantage: http://www.bikoholic.com/2012/03/ecu...ports-for.html

And if you do, please keep us informed.
Please read the review on this site http://kiirusindia.wordpress.com/201...r-car-to-them/ Not to mention that I already have a power commander V. I'll be buying the auto tune eventually I guess...
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Old August 31st, 2012, 11:43 PM   #17
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Thank you Hans for this information. I didn't know this, but that's what always can happen.
I know from long ago in Germany when Chip-Tuning startet Porsche made a kind of competition for those tuners and the biggest companies failed, but a small company (better to say a "one-man-show") got the most successful chip for power and all the other rules like emission ect.
I think the smell of unburnt fuel is what you'll always have, so don't worry much about that.
All the manufactures adjust the fuel-systems to lean because of legal laws for emissions, so if you go richer this is the first step to start with. That's the same what the guys with the carbed bikes do, getting bigger jets.
The difference i can see at my bike now, with the standard setup my water temp. goes up to 86 celsius while normal riding and now with my rich setup it stays at 72 celsius (i can read this because of the Koso RX2). The reason for this is the better inside cooling of the engine with more gasoline in it (this is also one reason for setting up racing engines to very rich, keep them cool on the long run).
Emissions is the biggest prob for the engines and you would wonder about your bike if you could ride it with leaded fuel, your braking power wouldn't be enough.
Use the NGK Iridium plugs, but be sure to use the HIX and not EIX. Some shops offer the EIX what i think this one is for the carbed bike (please correct me if i'm wrong).
Take out the cat and disconnect the o2-sensor.
Look at and measure the manifold or heater (whats the right word?) of your exhaust if it is exactly the same length because this part of the exhaust is the most important for being powerful because of the oscillation.
The next part of the exhaust is the length, a short one is giving you a better peak and the long one a better torque.
Very good manufactures for exhaust systems worldwide are the Italian companies. Them you can trust most for best quality and power (when i read about Mike's exhaust's melding his fairing then i must not ask for quality anymore, sorry Mike).
I think many exhausts in the market are just made by copying anything and being noisy (the noise sounds like power but it is not).
And then, not because I'm German, but look what the german market is doing and recommends for getting more and better power. There they know how to make very powerful engines (the best example is the BMW F1-turbo engine from the 80's with 1200 hp from only 1400cc and in the peak it went up to 1600 hp). I think i must not talk about the BMW bikes...
For sure the best is, if you have the chance, go to a dyno shop and spend your money over there instead of wasting it for autotune.
Good luck.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 01:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somchai View Post
Thank you Hans for this information. I didn't know this, but that's what always can happen.
I know from long ago in Germany when Chip-Tuning startet Porsche made a kind of competition for those tuners and the biggest companies failed, but a small company (better to say a "one-man-show") got the most successful chip for power and all the other rules like emission ect.
I think the smell of unburnt fuel is what you'll always have, so don't worry much about that.
All the manufactures adjust the fuel-systems to lean because of legal laws for emissions, so if you go richer this is the first step to start with. That's the same what the guys with the carbed bikes do, getting bigger jets.
The difference i can see at my bike now, with the standard setup my water temp. goes up to 86 celsius while normal riding and now with my rich setup it stays at 72 celsius (i can read this because of the Koso RX2). The reason for this is the better inside cooling of the engine with more gasoline in it (this is also one reason for setting up racing engines to very rich, keep them cool on the long run).
Emissions is the biggest prob for the engines and you would wonder about your bike if you could ride it with leaded fuel, your braking power wouldn't be enough.
Use the NGK Iridium plugs, but be sure to use the HIX and not EIX. Some shops offer the EIX what i think this one is for the carbed bike (please correct me if i'm wrong).
Take out the cat and disconnect the o2-sensor.
Look at and measure the manifold or heater (whats the right word?) of your exhaust if it is exactly the same length because this part of the exhaust is the most important for being powerful because of the oscillation.
The next part of the exhaust is the length, a short one is giving you a better peak and the long one a better torque.
Very good manufactures for exhaust systems worldwide are the Italian companies. Them you can trust most for best quality and power (when i read about Mike's exhaust's melding his fairing then i must not ask for quality anymore, sorry Mike).
I think many exhausts in the market are just made by copying anything and being noisy (the noise sounds like power but it is not).
And then, not because I'm German, but look what the german market is doing and recommends for getting more and better power. There they know how to make very powerful engines (the best example is the BMW F1-turbo engine from the 80's with 1200 hp from only 1400cc and in the peak it went up to 1600 hp). I think i must not talk about the BMW bikes...
For sure the best is, if you have the chance, go to a dyno shop and spend your money over there instead of wasting it for autotune.

Good luck.
Hey Roland, thank you for the very informative post. The biggest problem for me is, not spending money on dyno tuning, but the fact that dyno tuning is not at all available in India. At least not for the public. Because of that, I really have no other choice. Also, I often take my bike to very hilly regions(Nainital), up to 2000+mts above sea level. In that case, I will need a system which can compensate for such changes. I already have a full exhaust and a power commander system, which has deleted my O2 sensor. Also, I will definitely keep in mind about the spark plugs :thumbup thanks
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Old September 1st, 2012, 06:49 PM   #19
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Hey mike, I finally did something I've been avoiding for quiet a while now, for the same reason as you. I installed my k&n 0990 air filter, deleting the air box completely. I'm running a full yoshimura map with stock air filter and it seems to be running ok. My exhaust is an akrapovic rip off and I'm not running the baffle in it. How would I know of the bike was running lean? Is it a popping sound during deceleration or something else?
Hans,

It sounds to me like the map that you've chosen should be pretty close for your setup. The technician from Tyga I talked to said that the Yoshimura exhausts have a very high flow rate, especially at the top end. That Dynojet map should match that flow rate. I would guess that your setup with a full exhaust and the K&N air filters should come close to, or maybe even exceed that flow rate. Check the length and diameter of your header pipes (exhaust manifold) and compare them with the Yoshimura system.

Roland also has a good point about temperature. If it seems like you're running hot, you may be running lean. The popping on deceleration is also a good indicator, but I don't think that it can be used as the sole determining factor, due to differing conditions on acceleration and deceleration. To be honest, I'm not really sure about that at this point.

Like you, a dyno isn't an option for me at this point. I'm going on feel and engine response, aided by the advice I get from the autotune. I think my current map is a bit on the rich side, but I'm loving the power and response I get when I go anything past 80% throttle. The best thing about the autotune is that you can set target air/fuel ratios throughout your rpm/tps range.

Okay, I'm rambling again so I'll stop here.

One question for Roland, did you lean out your map in the areas where you were getting popping? If so, About what percent did you lean it out to reduce the popping?
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:51 PM   #20
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Hey mike, thanks again for your reply. My bike is actually not making any popping sounds. Though it was before I pulled out the air box. It definitely feels stronger at the top end. The only negative point I feel is the amount of unburnt fuel seems to have increased, as you can smell more petrol than before when you rev the bike. I'll buy an auto tune system just as soon as I can afford it(next month) then I'll be in a better position to update my maps here.

I'll make the measurements on my exhaust as soon as possible. Though I have nothing to compare it with.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 11:03 PM   #21
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Mike, thank you for your interest and question.
I'd enrich my map in that range where i get the popping now. The first i got the popping at 8000 to 9000 rpm where the Leovince-map was very lean with minus values and so i went to zero and positiv (rich) what made the popping go away.
But after that i got the popping in the range from 5000 to 7000 rpm. Now with my last map i went a little bit more to rich what made the popping to come up more rare now, but it's still excisting. So now i don't know if i should go much more to enrich, because to rich also means lower the power.
When i ride with 10000 rpm, then fully close the throttle and wait until the rpm is down at 4500 i don't have any popping, but when i don't close the throttle to zero, means keep it at maybe 20%, then i sometimes have the popping. For me this seems like i am to rich and the popping is unburnt fuel.

Important to say that my engines runs very smooth, accelerates powerful and when i release the throttle the rpms are going down quick, so at least i think i'm not to rich now. And with my water temperature so low now I'm not to lean also.
I think now i wait for you and Hans to get your maps and then i look in that range what i can do for mine.
Hans, it makes me wonder that after taking of your airbox, what means going more lean, you smell more unburnt fuel now?
Without a dyno run it's a fight, but since we're still young we have enough time for testing...
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 06:12 AM   #22
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I think now i wait for you and Hans to get your maps and then i look in that range what i can do for mine.
Hans, it makes me wonder that after taking of your airbox, what means going more lean, you smell more unburnt fuel now?
Without a dyno run it's a fight, but since we're still young we have enough time for testing...
Yeah, I can definitely smell more unburnt fuel than before, no doubt about that. Will update things as soon as I get my Auto Tune. Should be by the mid of this month.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #23
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@Sonofswin I've finally bought and installed my Auto Tune system and DAMN! what a difference it makes... Throttle response is so much smoother, revs so much better and sounds way cooler than before. That along with the quick turn throttle mod has made my bike a completely different beast. I'll post my map tomorrow after I have ridden it for a while.

I do have one question though, when you installed your system, did you block off the kleen air system? How do you do that?
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Old September 28th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #24
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@Sonofswin I've finally bought and installed my Auto Tune system and DAMN! what a difference it makes... Throttle response is so much smoother, revs so much better and sounds way cooler than before. That along with the quick turn throttle mod has made my bike a completely different beast. I'll post my map tomorrow after I have ridden it for a while.

I do have one question though, when you installed your system, did you block off the kleen air system? How do you do that?
Hey Hans, good to hear that you got better results so fast.

Yes, I did plug my KLEEN system when I put the autotune on. If you don't, then you get higher oxygen readings than you should. I used an aluminum plate that replaces the original plate. I recommend you at least remove the hose running from the sensor unit to the top of the engine then plug those two points. Leave the hose from the air box to the sensor and leave the sensor plugged in so you don't get an FI error indication.

Have you installed a switch? Are you planning to just leave the Autotune on full time, or remove it once mapped? When mapping, remember to try to map only your acceleration. A lot of people say that you should just pull the clutch in on all deceleration when creating a map, otherwise you get really high trim values with huge fluctuations. Also, you want to map for a while before you accept the trims. Your trims shouldn't be all over the place if they are correct, you should have a relatively smooth flow within each throttle position. This is the biggest problem I'm having.

I will post a how to on mapping eventually, but today I'm off for my first track day (If this damn typhoon doesn't get it cancelled.)
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Old October 6th, 2012, 04:48 AM   #25
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Hi, I'm not sure if my Auto Tune is actually doing anything. Please have a look and let me know. The target AFR table shows all these values, but the trim table is completely blank. Is it something to worry about? I do notice a difference between before and after installing it, but the maps don't show any "trim" from the auto tune.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 05:28 AM   #26
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... the trim table is completely blank...

...I do notice a difference between before and after installing it, but the maps don't show any "trim" from the auto tune.
Totally Basic thing, but I have to check --> You are choosing GET MAP or GET TABLE when you open the map,right? NOT open map.

Okay, now that that's out of the way...

Well, in that picture your AutoTune is NOT running. (Note the light on the bottom, 3rd from the right is not on) This could be due to your low RPM, so to check do this:

1. Make sure the bike is running and has warmed up for at least a couple of minutes.
2. In your target AFR table, set a value at 0% throttle at the 1250 and 1500 RPM ranges. (If your bike is idling around 1480 like in the picture.) Anything will do, you just want the AutoTune to come on and try adjusting your idle AFR.
3. Hit the send table button, (and even send map to make sure) then verify that the table was sent. (Should say - "Table sent successfully" or something like that at the bottom of the screen)

The AutoTune Running light should then come on, even at idle. (Make sure to undo the change when you are done.)

I notice your AFR reading is showing 0.00 as well. Have you just started the bike in this picture?

How have you set up the O2 sensor start-up time? Is it according to time or temperature? If it is set to start up by temperature, and you haven't made those wiring and setting changes on the Power Commander that could be the problem. This MAY also explain why you feel a difference, but get no readings on the trim table - because it is trying to improve your AFR though it isn't actually taking readings yet. (Is that even possible?)
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Old October 7th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #27
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1 device or 2?

Good Morning,

So I decided to check my trim tables today since it has been a while and took some screen shots while I was doing it. (#1 - is just with the key on, #2 - immediately after start up, so the O2 sensor hasn't come on yet, and #3 - after warming up)

First thing I noticed was that I show 2 devices connected after start-up, whereas your screenshot showed only 1.

Check your connections - especially the black plugs from the AutoTune to the PCV. When I set mine up, I noticed that they didn't want to lock in. So, make sure that they are still securely in place.
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File Type: png Dynojet 3.png (242.5 KB, 9 views)
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Old October 8th, 2012, 02:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Sonofswin View Post
Good Morning,

So I decided to check my trim tables today since it has been a while and took some screen shots while I was doing it. (#1 - is just with the key on, #2 - immediately after start up, so the O2 sensor hasn't come on yet, and #3 - after warming up)

First thing I noticed was that I show 2 devices connected after start-up, whereas your screenshot showed only 1.

Check your connections - especially the black plugs from the AutoTune to the PCV. When I set mine up, I noticed that they didn't want to lock in. So, make sure that they are still securely in place.
Hi, I had another good look at the setup and there is definitely something wrong. It isn't showing 2 devices and even when I tried searching for a device, it showed nothing. I checked the black connectors and they seemed to have been fit correctly. I'll probably try taking the whole thing apart and trying again later... I even let it run for over 15mins. There was a black part with number 76423025 written on it and "must use" written below it. I haven't used it, because I couldn't figure out where. Could that be a problem?

I'm attaching some pics to show you my connections.



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Old October 8th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #29
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Auto Tune AT-200 76423025 MUST USE plug

So, I found the problem. It was this little piece here, which needed to be plugged into the auto tune module. What is funny is that nowhere in the installation instructions is it mentioned that it needs to be plugged in. They have just mentioned on the plastic cover that we "MUST USE" it. But where? Now we know
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Old October 8th, 2012, 03:43 AM   #30
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So, I found the problem. It was this little piece here, which needed to be plugged into the auto tune module. What is funny is that nowhere in the installation instructions is it mentioned that it needs to be plugged in. They have just mentioned on the plastic cover that we "MUST USE" it. But where? Now we know
Yep, that would do it.

You have to love the Dynojet instructions, they pretty much suck for every product of theirs that I have used. I've come to the conclusion that they are purposefully trying to funnel money to their technicians by giving vague, wrong, and/or incomplete instructions.

This is also probably the reason that they never finished the iPhone App that they were developing to connect via Bluetooth so you could get readings and adjust on the fly. That would be too damn convenient!

Hope all your problems have been worked out.

PS: You should put the black rubber strip with the round nubs on it into the screw holes where your wires plug in, if you aren't using it now.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #31
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Yep, that would do it.
This is also probably the reason that they never finished the iPhone App that they were developing to connect via Bluetooth so you could get readings and adjust on the fly. That would be too damn convenient!
BAS*ARDS!!!


Thanks for your advise. I'll do it ASAP. I'm not currently using it.

Time to go for a quick ride and see what difference it's made... Also, I think my exhaust is spitting fire/popping during deceleration... Should I be worried?
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Old October 8th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #32
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map switching question

I am looking at getting the pcv and the map switch for my bike my questions are:-

1. could I set a map that is more suitable for town riding ie low -mid torque and lower top speed.
then switch to a map for more open road riding higher top speed.

2. is the auto tune worth getting

3. does the sensor with the autotune directly replace the original sensor
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Old October 8th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #33
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I am looking at getting the pcv and the map switch for my bike my questions are:-

1. could I set a map that is more suitable for town riding ie low -mid torque and lower top speed then switch to a map for more open road riding higher top speed.
Theoretically, yes. Although, I have found (on my bike anyway) that the difference is not all that great. I've ended up trying to map for best power in all ranges. Though I have a map switch installed, it is now an on/off for my AutoTune.

Quote:
2. is the auto tune worth getting
Depends on a lot of things. Do you have affordable dyno tuning available in your area? Is your bike still (mostly) stock, or have you modified the intake/exhaust system.

I think if you have dyno tuning available and/or your bike is stock, then you don't need the Autotune. It turns out that it is a pain in the a$$ to create a map with it. At this point, I'm using it more for guidance than direct mapping.

Quote:
3. does the sensor with the autotune directly replace the original sensor
If you just use the PCV then you will disconnect your stock O2 sensor. It isn't necessary. The AutoTune uses a wide band sensor (replacing the stock narrow band sensor.)
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Old October 8th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #34
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Thanks great info at the moment my bike is stock

I intend to do the following mods as like you in Japan things are expensive here in Thailand .

Mod 1 pcv5 with auto tune as I dont know of any dyno shops .

mod 2 k&n stock replacement air filter

mod 3 either the tyga full system or the dbs full system triangle http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.php

also I run my bike on gasahol 91
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Old October 8th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #35
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@loz944 - There should be dynojet dynos in Bangkok when the given information is right, look here: http://www.dynojet.com/maps/bikedynos/thailand.htm

And Redbaron in BKK should have one too.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #36
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thanks will check them out
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:09 AM   #37
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Thanks great info at the moment my bike is stock

I intend to do the following mods as like you in Japan things are expensive here in Thailand .

Mod 1 pcv5 with auto tune as I dont know of any dyno shops .

mod 2 k&n stock replacement air filter

mod 3 either the tyga full system or the dbs full system triangle http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.php

also I run my bike on gasahol 91
Laurence, didn't your Kawa-Center tell that you don't use E10?
My Kawa-Center highly recommended never use it and I know Ducati here in LoS forbid it strictly for their bikes.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #38
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Nope he said any 91 octane fuel it even says to use E10 in the manual

also 91 benzene is to be stopped this year
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Old March 10th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #39
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Since more and more are getting or have FI now wouldn't it be a good idea to share the setups and experiences about fuel injection?
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Old March 10th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #40
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I'm curious what you guys over in JP can get in terms of HP with FI and those Power Commander V's.. Someone was selling a bike with that over here and he claimed he got close to 40HP
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