switched to synthetic / debris in old oil

onizthegnome · January 19th, 2011, 07:07 PM

hey everyone, i just did another oil change yesterday and i switched out from 10w40 to 5w40 synthetic (shell rotella T). its supposed to be better for colder climates from what ive read. i also replaced the oil filter and i found a lot of gritty particles in the oil when i drained it and also around the old oil filter. how bad is it to have debris in your oil? any way to prevent this from happening or is it normal?

scotty · January 19th, 2011, 07:22 PM

What is it? Metal, or just clumpy oil? Synthetic oil will help clean your motor out. So dirt/old oil build up could be comming out. Could be a good thing, but I am by no means a pro when it comes to oil. (I just know it starts a lot of fuss with people) lol

onizthegnome · January 19th, 2011, 08:07 PM

ive read multiple articles about what the right oil is and it seems like its 50/50 about who is right and who is wrong about what oil to use. you would think there is a definite answer to it by now. very frustrating! oh well. the particles seemed to be metallic and hard. kind of like sand made of metal. there wasnt too much of it but i definitely saw some around the rubber o rings when i changed the oil filter. i could be wrong because i didnt strain it for further inspection but im guessing it is.

scotty · January 19th, 2011, 08:15 PM

Maybe someone who knows more about this could chime in. If this were happening to me, I would run the bike on the new oil for a few days then drain it and check for more particles. Then of course put new oil and a filter in. It may just be dirt working it's way out.?.

Edit: Is the bike running well? How long was your last oil change before this one?

kkim · January 19th, 2011, 09:26 PM

post a picture of the "grit".

CThunder-blue · January 20th, 2011, 08:53 AM

well, it's usually VERY bad to have debris of any kind in your oil. Is it possible it's friction material off your clutch? I would try to flush the oil out until the oil comes out clean.

Lew360 · January 20th, 2011, 09:15 AM

How many miles are on it?

rockNroll · January 20th, 2011, 09:23 AM

what does it taste like?

scotty · January 20th, 2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

what does it taste like?

Cookies!!!!

CZroe · January 21st, 2011, 12:55 PM

How many miles on the bike? How many oil changes has it had before?

onizthegnome · January 21st, 2011, 01:53 PM

well currently it has 3700 miles on it, i bought it at 3200 miles. i changed the oil and filter right after i bought it and again just a few days ago. im the third owner and its salvage rebuilt. what else can i mention about it.. oh i usually let it idle for 10-15 mins before i take off so i dont stall from a full stop and temps here have been between 20 and 40.

CZroe · January 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onizthegnome

well currently it has 3700 miles on it, i bought it at 3200 miles. i changed the oil and filter right after i bought it and again just a few days ago. im the third owner and its salvage rebuilt. what else can i mention about it.. oh i usually let it idle for 10-15 mins before i take off so i dont stall from a full stop and temps here have been between 20 and 40.

Most people report seeing debris in their oil for the first two or three changes. Kawi suggests your first at 600mi then your second at 4,000mi, which is way too long to have that crap in your engine in many people's opinions. It's probably too soon for full synthetic unless it got one almost right away and then at around 500 and 1,000 miles, which it probably did not considering that you still saw stuff in the oil. IOW, there's no reason to use synth if there is still gunk in there to get out.

Agustin · January 22nd, 2011, 10:32 AM

Might I recommend a magnetic oil drain bolt just so that you can reduce the mount of debris floating around in the oil. It will draw metal to the bolt and give you a better idea of whether or not the amount of debris is diminishing after each oil change. You will know as you will have less and less metal stuck to the bolt after each oil change.

onizthegnome · January 22nd, 2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agustin

Might I recommend a magnetic oil drain bolt just so that you can reduce the mount of debris floating around in the oil. It will draw metal to the bolt and give you a better idea of whether or not the amount of debris is diminishing after each oil change. You will know as you will have less and less metal stuck to the bolt after each oil change.

that is a good idea. i didnt know they had magnetic oil drain bolts. where might i get one?

Agustin · January 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onizthegnome

that is a good idea. i didnt know they had magnetic oil drain bolts. where might i get one?

I don't know the size and thread pitch off the top of my head but I will research it and post it later tonight. I've been meaning to buy one for my bike as well.

coondog · January 22nd, 2011, 04:55 PM

Between getting dumped (totalled) and three owners in 2 years I doubt the earl was changed even once before you came along. I'd dump the synthetic immediately and run regular grade throught it at least twice. once for a day and once for a week and see how it looks, especially if the drop was black along with the flakes.., which are normal. Then even do a third run of a month keeping you eye on glass oil window. All you need is a plastic tray from the dollar store, leftover plastic milk cartons from home and filter wrench (which you'll always need.) Once you're running clear change to semi-syntec or full depending on cost, budget, clarity and how often you want to chage it. My 05 semi-synthetic BelRay runs clear between changes to this day. You'll get it I have no doubt, these people were the ones to come to, especially if you wanted some jocularity as well.

ninja3575 · January 28th, 2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

well, it's usually VERY bad to have debris of any kind in your oil. Is it possible it's friction material off your clutch? I would try to flush the oil out until the oil comes out clean.

Friction material from the clutch? didnt think of that... so clutch debri is something you'll commonly find in your oil?

setasai · January 28th, 2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coondog

Between getting dumped (totalled) and three owners in 2 years I doubt the earl was changed even once before you came along. I'd dump the synthetic immediately and run regular grade throught it at least twice. once for a day and once for a week and see how it looks, especially if the drop was black along with the flakes.., which are normal. Then even do a third run of a month keeping you eye on glass oil window. All you need is a plastic tray from the dollar store, leftover plastic milk cartons from home and filter wrench (which you'll always need.) Once you're running clear change to semi-syntec or full depending on cost, budget, clarity and how often you want to chage it. My 05 semi-synthetic BelRay runs clear between changes to this day. You'll get it I have no doubt, these people were the ones to come to, especially if you wanted some jocularity as well.

I think I'd have to agree with coondog. Unless the previous 3 owners have anything remotely close to service records, I'd assume that the oil probably hasnt been changed very many times if at all. I'd treat it as new and do some frequent oil changes. Use conventional oil to save money and change it every 200-400 miles for the next 1000 miles.

Just curious, if you knew it was totalled/salvage title, why'd you buy it? Did you get a good deal on it?

onizthegnome · January 29th, 2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setasai

I think I'd have to agree with coondog. Unless the previous 3 owners have anything remotely close to service records, I'd assume that the oil probably hasnt been changed very many times if at all. I'd treat it as new and do some frequent oil changes. Use conventional oil to save money and change it every 200-400 miles for the next 1000 miles.

Just curious, if you knew it was totalled/salvage title, why'd you buy it? Did you get a good deal on it?

well the dude that sold it to me said it was a clean title at first. later after he showed me the title, i noticed it said salvage rebuilt. he seemed shocked about it, claimed that he didnt know and that made me upset. so he lowered the price a little and at the same time i kind of had that impulse to buy it since i didnt think anything was extremely wrong with it except a few cosmetic cracks that could only be seen up close. i gave it a test ride and it was fine. it was the cheapest deal on craigslist so far and all the other sellers were trying to sell their ninjettes for up to 4,500 which blew my mind.

kkim · January 29th, 2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onizthegnome

so he lowered the price a little and at the same time i kind of had that impulse to buy it since i didnt think anything was extremely wrong with it except a few cosmetic cracks that could only be seen up close.

I would not have bought the bike unless he lowered the price a LOT at that point. there's no way he didn't know the bike had a salvaged title, unless he didn't personally register the bike when he bought it.

scotty · January 29th, 2011, 08:50 PM

Yeah, that guy was tring to not tell you that. You can't miss that on a title. I don't care who you are, people always look at the title.

setasai · January 30th, 2011, 12:30 AM

Bummers. No worries though. Go through an thoroughly inspect it. I'm sure with all the experts here, you'll be able to get it in tip top shape.

What's done is done. In my book, you're still ahead since you have a "new to you" Ninja 250R to learn on and ride till it really is broke.

onizthegnome · February 10th, 2011, 04:16 PM

looks like its running fine now. i did accidentally put a little too much oil in and had it like that for a few days. now the oil is drained to the proper level. then i noticed something different, the oil level in the window used to go down after starting the engine but now the oil seems to seep back while the engine is running. is this a bad sign?

Boom King · February 10th, 2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onizthegnome

looks like its running fine now. i did accidentally put a little too much oil in and had it like that for a few days. now the oil is drained to the proper level. then i noticed something different, the oil level in the window used to go down after starting the engine but now the oil seems to seep back while the engine is running. is this a bad sign?

Hard for me to sit here and make a determination without actually looking at your bike but as long as the oil sits between the markers in the sight glass and as long as the oil pressure light does not come on, then you should be ok. Obviously, if the bike runs fine as well then all should be good. I'm not an expert however, and someone else here might have a different opinion.

setasai · February 10th, 2011, 11:50 PM

I think you should be fine as well. Make sure to change out the filter when you change oil. The filter absorbs a good chunk of oil.

kkim · February 11th, 2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onizthegnome

looks like its running fine now. i did accidentally put a little too much oil in and had it like that for a few days. now the oil is drained to the proper level. then i noticed something different, the oil level in the window used to go down after starting the engine but now the oil seems to seep back while the engine is running. is this a bad sign?

the bike was upright and level when you determined the proper oil level in the sight window and not on its side side, correct?

Cuongism · February 11th, 2011, 12:43 AM

Ditto, I use the throttle grip to balance the bike while checking the oil sight. Curious of why someone would do this with the engine on.

setasai · February 11th, 2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Ditto, I use the throttle grip to balance the bike while checking the oil sight. Curious of why someone would do this with the engine on.

Well I wouldnt. That's what stands are for. Rear stands are like screwdrivers when it comes to motorcycle maintenance. It's ridiculous how much easier it makes it.

kkim · February 11th, 2011, 08:29 PM

except, when the bike is on the rear stand, the oil level that shows up in the window is not the same as with the bike on level ground and perfectly upright. there is a slight difference... trust me. If you want to do it on the stand, get a good reading the "proper" way, then put the bike on the stand and note the oil level so you will know what the "proper" level looks like when your bike is on the stand.

setasai · February 12th, 2011, 11:22 AM

There's just no pleasing you is there? Ok will do. Never really put much thought into the whole leveling thing.

kkim · February 12th, 2011, 11:38 AM

it's not about pleasing me, but pleasing your bike.

try it and see if the levels don't change. if not, then continue checking the oil level on the rear stand.

running an overfilled or underfilled crankcase can have disastrous results for an engine.... and by "over" and "under" I mean outside the window levels.

johnjohn · February 12th, 2011, 02:42 PM

Like a balance beam, raise the front wheel till the gap at the bottom of the rear and front tire is the same while on the center stand. Ta Da!

kkim · February 12th, 2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjohn

Like a balance beam, raise the front wheel till the gap at the bottom of the rear and front tire is the same while on the center stand. Ta Da!

you must be drinking too much pregen koolaid... no centerstand on the newgens.

onizthegnome · February 14th, 2011, 02:19 PM

well this is just my observation from when i had 10w40 in it. the oil level would be at the full level with engine off. with engine on, it would be somewhere close to the low level and stay there. and of course these were checked with the bike perfectly upright on flat leveled ground, no bike stands, just me holding the bike and balancing it. now after switching to synthetic, it noticed the oil level is at full with engine off, and with engine on, the oil level first goes to low and then up to half full because i see oil filling up the sight glass. look at your bike and see if it does the same thing!

onizthegnome · February 14th, 2011, 02:23 PM

yes i did run the bike with too much oil for a few days before realizing it had a little too much so i drained some out. disastrous results? i hope thats not the case with my engine.

johnjohn · February 14th, 2011, 02:36 PM

Oh yes you have the cheaper and slower addition, no centre stand! lol

January 19th, 2011, 07:07 PM	#1
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	switched to synthetic / debris in old oil hey everyone, i just did another oil change yesterday and i switched out from 10w40 to 5w40 synthetic (shell rotella T). its supposed to be better for colder climates from what ive read. i also replaced the oil filter and i found a lot of gritty particles in the oil when i drained it and also around the old oil filter. how bad is it to have debris in your oil? any way to prevent this from happening or is it normal? __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

January 19th, 2011, 07:22 PM	#2
scotty ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Scott Location: Carlise Ohio Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): Yahama v star 650 classic Posts: A lot.	What is it? Metal, or just clumpy oil? Synthetic oil will help clean your motor out. So dirt/old oil build up could be comming out. Could be a good thing, but I am by no means a pro when it comes to oil. (I just know it starts a lot of fuss with people) lol __________________________________________________

January 19th, 2011, 08:07 PM	#3
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	ive read multiple articles about what the right oil is and it seems like its 50/50 about who is right and who is wrong about what oil to use. you would think there is a definite answer to it by now. very frustrating! oh well. the particles seemed to be metallic and hard. kind of like sand made of metal. there wasnt too much of it but i definitely saw some around the rubber o rings when i changed the oil filter. i could be wrong because i didnt strain it for further inspection but im guessing it is. __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

January 19th, 2011, 08:15 PM	#4
scotty ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Scott Location: Carlise Ohio Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): Yahama v star 650 classic Posts: A lot.	Maybe someone who knows more about this could chime in. If this were happening to me, I would run the bike on the new oil for a few days then drain it and check for more particles. Then of course put new oil and a filter in. It may just be dirt working it's way out.?. Edit: Is the bike running well? How long was your last oil change before this one? __________________________________________________

January 20th, 2011, 09:23 AM	#8
rockNroll . Name: rock Location: greenville, south carolina Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.	what does it taste like? __________________________________________________ Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up

January 19th, 2011, 09:26 PM	#5
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	post a picture of the "grit".

January 20th, 2011, 08:53 AM	#6
CThunder-blue ModMy250.com Name: Tri Location: St, Louis Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.	well, it's usually VERY bad to have debris of any kind in your oil. Is it possible it's friction material off your clutch? I would try to flush the oil out until the oil comes out clean.

January 20th, 2011, 09:15 AM	#7
Lew360 Bueller Name: Lewis Location: Bowie, MD Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 250R Posts: 78	How many miles are on it?

January 21st, 2011, 12:55 PM	#10
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	How many miles on the bike? How many oil changes has it had before?

January 21st, 2011, 01:53 PM	#11
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	well currently it has 3700 miles on it, i bought it at 3200 miles. i changed the oil and filter right after i bought it and again just a few days ago. im the third owner and its salvage rebuilt. what else can i mention about it.. oh i usually let it idle for 10-15 mins before i take off so i dont stall from a full stop and temps here have been between 20 and 40. __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

January 22nd, 2011, 10:32 AM	#13
Agustin ninjette.org member Name: Agustin Location: Los Angeles Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1993 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 (sold), 2007 Yamaha R1, 2003 Suzuki GSXR-600 Posts: 37	Might I recommend a magnetic oil drain bolt just so that you can reduce the mount of debris floating around in the oil. It will draw metal to the bolt and give you a better idea of whether or not the amount of debris is diminishing after each oil change. You will know as you will have less and less metal stuck to the bolt after each oil change.

January 22nd, 2011, 04:55 PM	#16
coondog ninjette.org sage Name: john Location: Palm Beach County, Fl Sligo County, Eire Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ninja 250 street fighter, 2008 street fighter ninja 500, 2001 nsr 125 Posts: 812	Between getting dumped (totalled) and three owners in 2 years I doubt the earl was changed even once before you came along. I'd dump the synthetic immediately and run regular grade throught it at least twice. once for a day and once for a week and see how it looks, especially if the drop was black along with the flakes.., which are normal. Then even do a third run of a month keeping you eye on glass oil window. All you need is a plastic tray from the dollar store, leftover plastic milk cartons from home and filter wrench (which you'll always need.) Once you're running clear change to semi-syntec or full depending on cost, budget, clarity and how often you want to chage it. My 05 semi-synthetic BelRay runs clear between changes to this day. You'll get it I have no doubt, these people were the ones to come to, especially if you wanted some jocularity as well.

January 29th, 2011, 08:50 PM	#21
scotty ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Scott Location: Carlise Ohio Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): Yahama v star 650 classic Posts: A lot.	Yeah, that guy was tring to not tell you that. You can't miss that on a title. I don't care who you are, people always look at the title. __________________________________________________

January 30th, 2011, 12:30 AM	#22
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	Bummers. No worries though. Go through an thoroughly inspect it. I'm sure with all the experts here, you'll be able to get it in tip top shape. What's done is done. In my book, you're still ahead since you have a "new to you" Ninja 250R to learn on and ride till it really is broke.

February 10th, 2011, 04:16 PM	#23
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	looks like its running fine now. i did accidentally put a little too much oil in and had it like that for a few days. now the oil is drained to the proper level. then i noticed something different, the oil level in the window used to go down after starting the engine but now the oil seems to seep back while the engine is running. is this a bad sign? __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

February 10th, 2011, 11:50 PM	#25
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	I think you should be fine as well. Make sure to change out the filter when you change oil. The filter absorbs a good chunk of oil.

February 11th, 2011, 12:43 AM	#27
Cuongism ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cuong Location: San Diego Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.	Ditto, I use the throttle grip to balance the bike while checking the oil sight. Curious of why someone would do this with the engine on.

February 11th, 2011, 08:29 PM	#29
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	except, when the bike is on the rear stand, the oil level that shows up in the window is not the same as with the bike on level ground and perfectly upright. there is a slight difference... trust me. If you want to do it on the stand, get a good reading the "proper" way, then put the bike on the stand and note the oil level so you will know what the "proper" level looks like when your bike is on the stand.

February 12th, 2011, 11:22 AM	#30
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	There's just no pleasing you is there? Ok will do. Never really put much thought into the whole leveling thing.

February 12th, 2011, 11:38 AM	#31
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	it's not about pleasing me, but pleasing your bike. try it and see if the levels don't change. if not, then continue checking the oil level on the rear stand. running an overfilled or underfilled crankcase can have disastrous results for an engine.... and by "over" and "under" I mean outside the window levels.

February 12th, 2011, 02:42 PM	#32
johnjohn ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Caledonia, Ontario, Canada Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): Honda, Buell, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha Posts: 170	Like a balance beam, raise the front wheel till the gap at the bottom of the rear and front tire is the same while on the center stand. Ta Da!

February 14th, 2011, 02:19 PM	#34
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	well this is just my observation from when i had 10w40 in it. the oil level would be at the full level with engine off. with engine on, it would be somewhere close to the low level and stay there. and of course these were checked with the bike perfectly upright on flat leveled ground, no bike stands, just me holding the bike and balancing it. now after switching to synthetic, it noticed the oil level is at full with engine off, and with engine on, the oil level first goes to low and then up to half full because i see oil filling up the sight glass. look at your bike and see if it does the same thing! __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

February 14th, 2011, 02:23 PM	#35
onizthegnome certified newbie Name: oniz Location: north carolina Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r blue Posts: 127	yes i did run the bike with too much oil for a few days before realizing it had a little too much so i drained some out. disastrous results? i hope thats not the case with my engine. __________________________________________________ locktite ALL the things!!!

February 14th, 2011, 02:36 PM	#36
johnjohn ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Caledonia, Ontario, Canada Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): Honda, Buell, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha Posts: 170	Oh yes you have the cheaper and slower addition, no centre stand! lol

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