Rant!!!: Jet Kit Install

[islanderman7]

Ughhh! I just need to vent. I read the service manual, g21-30's link on the CVK40, faq ninja250 wiki stuff, practically anything that can help me in installing a new jet kit.

But after reading all this stuff I just don't feel comfortable touching the carbs. Think I might just find a local mechanic who can teach me and show me on the spot on how to install a jet kit. The kid inside of me wants to learn and take things apart, but I am just afraid of FUBARing (Definition)it because its so delicate.

I know what to do but this thinking about all the steps and process is a SOB.



Vent done. I feel better.

[kkim]

Don't be in a rush, work in a clean area and if you get stuck, we're always here to lend a hand. Make sure you have all the parts and tools you need to do the job before you start.

do you have the carbs off the bike at this point?

You have more knowledge right now than most that tear into their carbs... you just need some reassurance.

Don't panic... you will feel a lot better once it's done.

[islanderman7]

Well, my dad said he knew of a mechanic who works on sports bike so I am going to call him tomorrow and see if he can show me on the spot. But if anything else, I'm gonna re-read all the stuff then maybe get to it on the weekend on my own.

No, the carbs are still in there after I installed the K&N filter. It sucks that I have to take it off and re-install it again because it was a PITA to get the female ends onto the lips of the carbs.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Well, my dad said he knew of a mechanic who works on sports bike so I am going to call him tomorrow and see if he can show me on the spot. But if anything else, I'm gonna re-read all the stuff then maybe get to it on the weekend on my own.

No, the carbs are still in there after I installed the K&N filter. It sucks that I have to take it off and re-install it again because it was a PITA to get the female ends onto the lips of the carbs.

if someone else works on them, be sure you are there to learn. This is not the last time you will need to access the carbs. You're gonna do it again for fine tuning.

I say don't pressure out and work on the carbs yourself. It is what makes modding fun... to learn stuff on a hobby you enjoy.

btw, what jetting specs are you going with?

[islanderman7]

Yea, thats what I want. I want to be there and see exactly what he would be doing.

Oooooh you're so tempting me right now to just tackle them carbs. I know what you're saying.

But all those hiccups I met when taking out my OEM air box shook me up a bit. Left a sour taste. I'm not kidding, one of the four bolts that holds this bar (anterior to the battery, posterior of the bar that holds the gas tank in), the head broke off and the body of the bolt was still threaded in. When tightening the bolt to make it snug, the head just snapped off. I was like WTF, the other three I was able to make them snug. Guess it must have been a defective bolt. Pissed me off cuz I had to go out and buy an easy out. Ended up replacing all four bolts out of fear they could all be defective.

And as much as I love working on my bike, its not enough to match the love of riding on it more. Haven't rode her in a week.

The jetting spec would look something like this:
YEAR: 2008

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: OEM air box removed. K&N R-0990 Filter

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS:Full System Area P Standard CF

JET KIT OR STOCK? Jet Kit

BRAND OF JET KIT? Factory Pro 3.0 (FP sells two of them 1.0 and 3.0 The 3.0 is for when you desire to remove the air box)

MAIN JET: 112

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: e-clip 3rd from the top (since its middle ground)

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: Don't know yet

ELEVATION: sea level to 400 ft.

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP:Not there yet.

[Suey250]

When you actually get into it, you should do a step by step with some pictures as well maybe help the rest of us build confidence in messing with the carbs.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by Suey250

When you actually get into it, you should do a step by step with some pictures as well maybe help the rest of us build confidence in messing with the carbs.

lol I should huh. That would add more to it being a SOB. Its a headache just thinking about it.

Well, I plan on doing it the long way by taking out the carbs and not doing the short cut. Gotta find a good camera that can take close-ups.

[Suey250]

Yeah make sure you have the macro feature turned on

Documenting it probably is a big pain in the butt, when I'm working on the car or whatever I just want it done ASAP

[ak_907_ak]

When I did my jet-change, I thought about bringing it to the shop, let them handle it. But then I decided to do it myself.
By far the hardest part was getting to the carbs, and getting them out especially. Once you have them off your bike, the jet and needle change will take less than 10 minutes.
Looking back on it, I am glad I did it myself.
My problem areas were: getting the carbs of the tubes that come from the airbox and go to the engine, the throttle cables, and the screws on the carburator (<- be careful with those, they are soft metal screws).

[islanderman7]

Well this guy did a pretty detailed DIY of installing the jets. DIY JET kit install But the FP jet kit comes with so many goodies that makes it confusing of where everything goes. Like it has a bunch of allen bolts that I gotta figure out which side they screw in.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Well this guy did a pretty detailed DIY of installing the jets. DIY JET kit install But the FP jet kit comes with so many goodies that makes it confusing of where everything goes. Like it has a bunch of allen bolts that I gotta figure out which side they screw in.

The allens are to replace the float bowl screws, I believe.

Your jetting specs sound about right. For the mixture screws, start at about 2 3/4 turns out from full in. You'll need to fine tune that once the bike is up and running, but that will be close enough to start.

Work on the carbs one at a time so you can get practice to do the other one. Start with changing out the needles, put the tops back on, then flip the carbs over, remove the float bowl, change the main jet, put the bowl back on then adjust the mixture screw. repeat for the other carb. You're this far, you may as well do the rest. I'll tell you pulling the airbox was a bigger PITA than rejetting. You've already done the hard part.

Be sure your tools are clean and sharp when you use them. the phillips head splines should be straight and new and not old and eaten... that will strip your screw heads. any time you loosen a screw, push the screwdriver in firmly before you twist on the screw to loosen. That will help prevent stripping phillips head screws.

[VeX]

Whoa whoa... Time out cholo! (sorry I just got home from Spanish class).

If you're not entirely confident taking the carbs OFF to re-jet then.... Don't

You're bound to forget to hook up a vacuum hose, throttle cable, choke cable, etc. etc.

I think it's time I did that DIY on how to rejet the bikes WITHOUT removing the carburetors. It's actually probably around a 2/10 job to accomplish whereas the needle shimming is a 4/10 ... BELIEVE it

[kkim]

Originally Posted by VeX

Whoa whoa... Time out cholo! (sorry I just got home from Spanish class).

If you're not entirely confident taking the carbs OFF to re-jet then.... Don't

You're bound to forget to hook up a vacuum hose, throttle cable, choke cable, etc. etc.

I think it's time I did that DIY on how to rejet the bikes WITHOUT removing the carburetors. It's actually probably around a 2/10 job to accomplish whereas the needle shimming is a 4/10 ... BELIEVE it

lol... so, get busy!

[VeX]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...3040#post13040

I got busy!

Now if there was an easy way to shim the needles without pulling the fuel tank then carburetor tuning would be more like carburetor sync'ing in terms of simplicity!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by VeX

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...3040#post13040

I got busy!

Now if there was an easy way to shim the needles without pulling the fuel tank then carburetor tuning would be more like carburetor sync'ing in terms of simplicity!

can't take all the fun out of carb tuning.

Great job on the main jet thread!

[Suey250]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Well this guy did a pretty detailed DIY of installing the jets. DIY JET kit install But the FP jet kit comes with so many goodies that makes it confusing of where everything goes. Like it has a bunch of allen bolts that I gotta figure out which side they screw in.

Yahooo ! jackpot !

[mike_sema]

hey islanderman7 it really is not that bad i did mine today with the help of a buddy and when it came down to it i felt kinda of like an ass for asking for his help, with all the info i read befor hand and all the info you get from this and other sites it really takes the guss work out of it on the other hand i think the fine tuning i will be doing in the next few weeks will be interesting,,,

ooo and buy the way thanks kkim for sending me an invite this site rules

[kkim]

Originally Posted by mike_sema

ooo and buy the way thanks kkim for sending me an invite this site rules

[everyday3]

I was nervous about messing with the carbs at first but if you follow the instructions it gives you a good starting point. My bike ran fine at the start point just not at its peak performance it takes time and many rides to get it dialed in but it’s so worth it. Lots of people to help. Good luck.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by Suey250

Yahooo ! jackpot !

Tony,

If you done a lot of reading like I have in installing a Jet Kit, you will have more than enough information. I feel like an idiot for even complaining about this job. I was so scared of stripping/ damaging the main jet, pilot screws and the diaphragm. The diaphragm part (Its under the black plastic cover) was scary cuz I kid you not, this rubber is super thin. Like I could use it for a condom or something. But I took my time and all went well. Just remember that the small hole in the diaphragm tube faces toward the front.

The only confusing part about installing it was which side to put the allen bolts that comes with the kit. Kelly says they replace the float bowl, but the Factory Pro instructions say the top of the carbs. FP's instruction are pretty vague, but decided to replace the Phillip screws that hold the black plastic covers over the diaphragm.

Anyways, it was pretty easy. I say it was like a 4 out of 10. The only hard part was getting my throttle cables back onto the carbs.

Here another helpful link straight from the factory website. Jet Kit for EX250/500
Was gonna write a DIY with pics but I think he pretty much nails it.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by mike_sema

hey islanderman7 it really is not that bad i did mine today with the help of a buddy and when it came down to it i felt kinda of like an ass for asking for his help, with all the info i read befor hand and all the info you get from this and other sites it really takes the guss work out of it on the other hand i think the fine tuning i will be doing in the next few weeks will be interesting,,,

Yea, I feel like an ass to when I finally decided to buck down and do it. It went pretty smooth. I still need to fine tune it. Its not perfect yet. See my info on the jetting database.

[kkim]

Sorry if I misspoke. I was sure the Allens went on the float bowls, but if the instructions said to use them for the carb covers, then they must be correct.

Glad to hear the bike is back together and running. You were really psyching yourself out over this, weren't you?

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by kkim

Sorry if I misspoke. I was sure the Allens went on the float bowls, but if the instructions said to use them for the carb covers, then they must be correct.

Glad to hear the bike is back together and running. You were really psyching yourself out over this, weren't you?

Ehh no worries. I wish their instruction were a bit more detailed on where they go. But just placed them where I thought they would want them. Also, I wish they gave me 8 more allens so I could replace the float bowl screws.

Yea, but I blame it on all those hiccups I had when I was trying to get the air box out.

[mike_sema]

hey when you had the bike apart did you go ahead and remove the kleen air system or the charcole canister what about the vacum hose to the carbs what did you use for that,I knmow that one thing that i did not do yet is plug the hole from the kleen air system on top of the air box will have to do that tonight

[kkim]

Originally Posted by mike_sema

hey when you had the bike apart did you go ahead and remove the kleen air system or the charcole canister what about the vacum hose to the carbs what did you use for that,I knmow that one thing that i did not do yet is plug the hole from the kleen air system on top of the air box will have to do that tonight

Do that right away as that hole on the top of the airbox is on the engine side of the filter. If left open, you are sucking unfiltered air directly into the engine through the carbs.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by mike_sema

hey when you had the bike apart did you go ahead and remove the kleen air system or the charcole canister what about the vacum hose to the carbs what did you use for that,I knmow that one thing that i did not do yet is plug the hole from the kleen air system on top of the air box will have to do that tonight

Well, I left all that stuff alone because I am still unsure of what to do. Besides the intake tubes that go over the carburetors there were two other hoses that were connected to the OEM air box. One for the crankcase and one for the clean air system. For those two hoses I covered both with breathers.

Do keep in mind, I have a California model bike so it has this weird canister on the side plus two extra tubes connected to the gas tank. These extra tubing are all part of the clean air system.

I would like to remove/plug the clean air system because I experience a backfiring when I decelerate, but I do not know how I should go about for the California model. So does anybody know how?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Well, I left all that stuff alone because I am still unsure of what to do. Besides the intake tubes that go over the carburetors there were two other hoses that were connected to the OEM air box. One for the crankcase and one for the clean air system. For those two hoses I covered both with breathers.

Do keep in mind, I have a California model bike so it has this weird canister on the side plus two extra tubes connected to the gas tank. These extra tubing are all part of the clean air system.

I would like to remove/plug the clean air system because I experience a backfiring when I decelerate, but I do not know how I should go about for the California model. So does anybody know how?

Vex does... he has a cali model and removed the Kleen system.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by kkim

Vex does... he has a cali model and removed the Kleen system.

I think I found my answer. Was looking at your DIY thread and saw some of Vex's pics. Hmmm... I think I'll get busy.

Wow I'm still reading along and looks like hes having venting problems for the gas tank. So Vex, what did you end up doing to the gas tank? Do you still have problems?

[kkim]

He had sealed off one of the vent tubes, if I remember correctly and undid it to fix the problem.

[VeX]

Correct sir! So I started like this:


I originally did 2-dumb things to finally figure this one out:

1) (original picture has been destroyed)

I looped the red-dot port and the blue-dot port on the tank together. Logically they went to the vapor canister and after eliminating the vapor canister you can just tie these together like they were never there right?

Wrong! The tank magically won't let any air back in after fuel has been displaced (run out through the petcock). Eventually when enough vacuum builds in the tank the engine will stop running. Bad! Very bad! (more annoying actually)

2) I blocked the blue-dot port and vented the red-dot port:

This actually works. The tank vents all prim and proper, but technically if you're really sloshing around gasoline can escape up and down through this port. So the BEST way is:

3) Block the red-dot port and vent the blue-dot port:

I also threw in a cheap inline filter and PCV valve (perhaps overkill, but I want any air going into the tank as clean as possible and I don't want anything coming back UP.


And that's the way it's been for nearly 6 months now

[VeX]

Oh, and removing the emissions equipment is stupid simple. Since you're doing the Kleen-air removal as well literally EVERYTHING:


Comes out at once. CIRCLED in red on the left is the only exception. That is a vacuum line that once you pull it (It plugs in on one of the carburetors vacuum ports) you need to plug the tee on the carburetor vacuum port! The other red-circled tee is actually where the emissions equipment ties into the kleen air system. In this picture is literally the emissions equipment and the kleen-air hose in one shot

[islanderman7]

Thanks a bunch Vex.

Cheers to you!

[kkim]

ring... ring...

hello, this is the doctor's office calling to check up on how your bike is doing???

[islanderman7]

Hello Doc K,

Just got back from Fresno so I finally have access to the internet again. A drive from Bakersfield to Fresno is ~1.45 hours. The ride to Fresno was so cold that the ambient temperature was 32 F. On my way back it was raining. I felt that I did a good job layering up, but I could not keep the phalanges on my feet and hands warm for the life of me. I tried rubber latex gloves under my regular gloves, but I still feel cold. I might try and tape some hand warmer packets to the grips.

But after the the trip there and back doc, I feel I can give a pretty decent report. After the re-jetting, the bike warms up faster than stock. I like this because I no longer have to worry about the engine dying on me when I try to rev past 5k rpms. However, with the new jetting I go through a tank a gas fast. With a full tank I can get to Fresno from Bakersfield with a half a tank (106 miles). Previously I could get their with about 1/4 of tank. The gauge comes in pretty handy because I have to worry about where the next gas station is.

I did give the bike a couple good WOT on the freeway. According to the odometer the needle was going all the way up to 110 mph. I was kinda unsure if I was seeing things or not but I swear, it was pointing there. This was on the way up so I am guessing it was due to the cold air. Previously, my top speed was around 101 mph. I tried getting the bike back to 110, but it only tops 105 mph.

The bike pulls hard to redline in every gear except 5th. I am thinking about moving to a 110 mainjet, but it is still cold here. I have not gotten to removing/plugging the clean air system due to my trip to Fresno. So I still experience a backfiring noise when I decelerate. Don't know if its a bad thing, but its gonna be awhile till I'll be able to get to removing the system. What do you think doc?

When I get the clean air system removed I'll get to syncing the carbs too. I have been so lazy lately.

With the new exhaust, it is LOUD (Area P CF standard)!!! I thought I was going to be pulled over but I passed quite a number of LEO's with no problem. Even at a gas station, a LEO pulled up behind me to gas up and I left with no problem. I had my cousin ride my bike to see how loud it was when he was pulling away. Turns out its not as loud as it seems when you ride it than when you hear the bike pull away. Around town, I've been complimented on my bike. A guy who rides a Harley says he likes how the 250 idles. Sounds mean and deep. A guy in a truck that pulled up next to me at a stoplight asked me if that was the new Ninja 250, told him yes. He gave me a and said he likes the way it sounds.

The bike is doing good, feels stronger. So overall, I like the upgrades I did to the bike, I don't think I could go back to stock. I do still worry about what my dad's co-worker said about trading the life of the engine by making it run harder. Well I am really tired from this trip, and I am rambling way to much. Signing off. Peace.

Heres some eye candy:

DSCN0070.jpg

DSCN0071.jpg

DSCN0084.jpg

DSCN0083.jpg

DSCN0081.jpg

[kkim]

Get an accurate idea of mpg by dividing the amount of gallons it took to fill up into the miles traveled since your last fill up. Do this for a couple of tanks to get a good idea of the average mpg you are getting. I don't think it will be as bad as you think. I average anywhere between 45-55 mpg, depending on how hard you twist the throttle.

Don't worry about engine longevity, though it will last a long time, as you'll most likely sell the bike a few years down the road, if not sooner. Enjoy it while you have it.

You'll be fine w/o the Kleen removal for awhile... the backfiring will be more an annoyance than anything else.

what's up with only 5th gear? you mean 6th???

Be aware of any hiccups or flat spots you may notice in the next few rides. I'd say you have a good basis to start from with regard to jetting. It just needs to be fine tuned as problems/shortcomings are discovered.

Congrats! sounds like you are happy with the results. Aren't you glad you did it yourself?

[g21-30]

You got to love them BLACK bikes kkim!!!

[CRXTrek]

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by kkim

Get an accurate idea of mpg by dividing the amount of gallons it took to fill up into the miles traveled since your last fill up. Do this for a couple of tanks to get a good idea of the average mpg you are getting. I don't think it will be as bad as you think. I average anywhere between 45-55 mpg, depending on how hard you twist the throttle.

Don't worry about engine longevity, though it will last a long time, as you'll most likely sell the bike a few years down the road, if not sooner. Enjoy it while you have it.

You'll be fine w/o the Kleen removal for awhile... the backfiring will be more an annoyance than anything else.

what's up with only 5th gear? you mean 6th???

Be aware of any hiccups or flat spots you may notice in the next few rides. I'd say you have a good basis to start from with regard to jetting. It just needs to be fine tuned as problems/shortcomings are discovered.

Congrats! sounds like you are happy with the results. Aren't you glad you did it yourself?

Fine... I'll do an accurate measure. But it does suck to gas up just as much as my cousin's 600. I feel like I probably get 40 mpg because on the freeways here in Cali you have to go 80 to 85mph (10k RPM), otherwise you get cars zooming past you on your blind spot. Kinda scary. I still get passed up when I am cruising 80 mph (9k). That said... I have to twist the throttle.

I meant 6th gear. Was tired from my trip.

I'll keep an eye out for any problems. But if anything that I don't know, I'll be sure to call the doc.

Yeah I am happy with the results, now that I look back at it.. it was a piece of cake. Except for the air box.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by CRXTrek

+1

[kkim]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Fine... I'll do an accurate measure. But it does suck to gas up just as much as my cousin's 600. I feel like I probably get 40 mpg because on the freeways here in Cali you have to go 80 to 85mph (10k RPM), otherwise you get cars zooming past you on your blind spot. Kinda scary. I still get passed up when I am cruising 80 mph (9k). That said... I have to twist the throttle.

I meant 6th gear. Was tired from my trip.

I'll keep an eye out for any problems. But if anything that I don't know, I'll be sure to call the doc.

Yeah I am happy with the results, now that I look back at it.. it was a piece of cake. Except for the air box.

Glad to hear it turned out as expected. Yeah, it does take some effort to get up to speed in 6th. That may indicate you might need to drop down to a 110 main, too. Ride it as is for awhile to get a good feel for it and to use it as your base so when you fine tune, you'll be better able to tell what changes the fiddling brings.

I'm so glad the results have proven to be a faster bike, as starting with a black one, you needed as much help as you could get. Once you fine tune the bike and get it running even faster, you'll almost realize what is to own a green bike... almost.

Have fun... keep track of that mpg and log it somewhere.