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Old June 3rd, 2014, 06:50 AM   #1
gantt
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Pro's and Con's of fork swap???

I bought an '08 250 last year for my wife. she has since figured out she is not comfortable having to be so alert and aware to be safe riding with/ around traffic. that being said, i have grown fond this little gem of a motorcycle. I find myself riding it more than my ex650.
The front end on this bike is way below my wants and expectations. I am looking into a front fork swap along with a rear shock of an updated design. The gsxr shock seems to be a good comprimize of price and performace. I've read a little bit online of a gsxr front end swap also. I want better suspendtion and better brakes. I dont do track days(yet), and i don't ride as hard as i used to. I just like to have fun without pushing too hard.
My questions are;
1. what should i do with the front end? how much work am i looking at for a swap? what is a good swap to do?
2. what should i do for the rear shock assembly?


Side note; I am not buying a bigger bike. nor am i trying to make the ninja something it can never do. So don't waste time saying to buy bigger. i merely want to improve on the ninja's weak points, sub-par suspendtion and so-called brakes.

Last futzed with by gantt; June 3rd, 2014 at 06:58 AM. Reason: posted thread before completing entire post
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:12 AM   #2
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Have you done anything with the brakes or are you currently living with stock? Same with the fork, where are you now? Have you changed anything or are you completely at stock?


There's a few members here who have played with various MC's, bigger rotors, and calipers (and brackets to mate the caliper to the fork) from other bikes for better feel and firmness at the lever.

The issue I see with a fork swap is that unless you have access to machining, you're stuck with using whatever front wheel is normally attached to those forks. Idk about you, I like having matching wheels and a fender that goes with my bike. Maybe this is a non-issue to you, maybe you share my thoughts, YMMV. If you want to keep the stock front end, you can use Racetech emulators (not too expensive) or go all out and retrofit some cartridge internals into the forks (a few different options, but potentially expensive). I guess a fork swap seems like what you'd do if you absolutely cannot find anything that works for you, not the first step. There are plenty of racers on here who have done the cartridge swap with glowing result. Many are also happy with Emulators.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Have you done anything with the brakes or are you currently living with stock? Same with the fork, where are you now? Have you changed anything or are you completely at stock? Completely stock, down to original fork oil, bike has 6,500 miles. stock brakes, pads,lines.


There's a few members here who have played with various MC's, bigger rotors, and calipers (and brackets to mate the caliper to the fork) from other bikes for better feel and firmness at the lever.

The issue I see with a fork swap is that unless you have access to machining, you're stuck with using whatever front wheel is normally attached to those forks. Idk about you, I like having matching wheels and a fender that goes with my bike. Maybe this is a non-issue to you, maybe you share my thoughts, YMMV. If you want to keep the stock front end, you can use Racetech emulators (not too expensive) or go all out and retrofit some cartridge internals into the forks (a few different options, but potentially expensive). I guess a fork swap seems like what you'd do if you absolutely cannot find anything that works for you, not the first step. There are plenty of racers on here who have done the cartridge swap with glowing result. Many are also happy with Emulators.
I do have free machining access, though its an engine machine shop. dont know how much help that would be. I have a friend that certainly could do maching for a fair price.
What are my options for brakes? is there a good article or thread i need to see? Thanks for your reply so far.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:24 AM   #4
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You know I have seen many variations here in Asia

Some use Kawasaki 636 forks & I have see some use the Indo/China types
The Kawasaki looks overkill & heavy too. The Indo/China ones look ok but quality will be suspect

One thing that I have wondered about is the fork off the KTM Duke 200
They use the same on their 390 as it is the same bike with a different engine

It is a WP USD 43mm fork & runs a 17" 110/70 wheel/tire & is single brake disc same as the Ninja

Anyway have gone no further then wondering but did see this page with prices
from India for spare parts
http://madrives.com/ktm-duke-spare-p...cost-in-india/

The fork assembly is 22,000 in India so roughly $370usd
I have not seen what the steering head length is on the Duke so have no further info
on fitting it etc.
Just something I had thought about

To tell you the truth once I added sonic springs & better oil my forks are not that bad. I am not too heavy so do not notice flex.
The rear shock I have set on the 3rd stiffest & it is just ok.
Ohlin has come out with a new shock that runs $300 that may be a future addition
for me.

PS: For front brakes I am running a 320mm front rotor & EBC HH pads, SS braided line
Might later get an adapter for a 4 piston caliper


Good Luck
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:31 AM   #5
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probably cheaper just to tune the stock forks with springs and oil and put on a new rear shock. a full front end swap will probably be at least 2 or 3 times more expensive
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Have you done anything with the brakes or are you currently living with stock? Same with the fork, where are you now? Have you changed anything or are you completely at stock?


There's a few members here who have played with various MC's, bigger rotors, and calipers (and brackets to mate the caliper to the fork) from other bikes for better feel and firmness at the lever.

The issue I see with a fork swap is that unless you have access to machining, you're stuck with using whatever front wheel is normally attached to those forks. Idk about you, I like having matching wheels and a fender that goes with my bike. Maybe this is a non-issue to you, maybe you share my thoughts, YMMV. If you want to keep the stock front end, you can use Racetech emulators (not too expensive) or go all out and retrofit some cartridge internals into the forks (a few different options, but potentially expensive). I guess a fork swap seems like what you'd do if you absolutely cannot find anything that works for you, not the first step. There are plenty of racers on here who have done the cartridge swap with glowing result. Many are also happy with Emulators.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
probably cheaper just to tune the stock forks with springs and oil and put on a new rear shock. a full front end swap will probably be at least 2 or 3 times more expensive
+1

and I'd add just because you did a fork swap doesn't mean it is any better for your bike and your weight. Even after a fork swap to get the most out of the set up you would still need to re spring the forks at least.

Only pro i really see to doing fork swap is you would get a better brake setup and not have to futz with it if you bought complete fork/brakes. But you are still stuck with the larger tire ect... that Chone pointed out.

So if you are going to have to respring the swap forks anyway, why not just respring, revalve your current forks and save a boat load.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:40 AM   #7
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Like everyone else here just said... A new spring and fresh oil should go a long way... After that you have emulators which will go another long way... lol
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 08:18 AM   #8
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I added a Galfer stainless steel front brake line to my 2009 Ninja 250 and have Sonic springs and SSR preload adjusters on their way to help with the soft front end. I think a front end swap would be overkill on the little 250.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 08:21 AM   #9
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The way I see it, you can get a lot of improvement without swapping the front end.

Springs, check out the Racetech spring calculator. http://racetech.com/ChooseVehicle.aspx

Then look into Racetech emulators, or another option is Ricor Intiminators.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134135

The tuning for both of those includes oil weight, preload spacers, and getting the emulator/intimiator screw adjusted to your liking.




For the rear, there's a thread around here about rebuilding/revalving a GSXR shock to work better with the light bike, as well as changing the spring. That might be your best bang for the buck option. I can't find the thread on the revalving right now... Remember that you'll likely want to get slightly shorter dogbones to keep the tail at stock ride height:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169178

You also have plenty of off-the-shelf options for shocks from makers like GPR, Ohlins, Penske, etc. Those are pricey though.



For brakes, maybe you'll be alright with just stainless lines and good pads, maybe you'll want an aftermarket MC like a Brembo RCS unit, maybe you'll want to go full monty and change the rotor/caliper as well. Read through the threads from old3 and subxero on their experiences mating up a different caliper to the stock mounts. I believe Joe has a used Ducati Brembo unit, while old3 has a Nissin unit off a Honda.


All of this comes down to balancing how perfect you want it and how much you want to spend.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 11:44 AM   #10
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thanks for the information. if i ever get my bills paid off this is one of the first things on my list. i started a new job three months ago as a Ford and Mack technician and having to buy the tools needed has really put my budget stressed. and i took a slight pay cut to take this job.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 12:29 PM   #11
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I would suggest cartridges and rear shock upgrades if money is no object.

Give these guys a call for some info:

http://www.cyclemall.net

http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/

http://www.traxxion.com

http://www.racetech.com

http://www.jrishocks.com

I talked to them for info and pricing options for my 300.

options:

gsxr shock + sonic springs = $115 (parts only)

gsxr shock + springs + emulator = $260ish (parts only)

automall custom fork tuning + jri shock = $1200 (they don't charge for labor but its in CA)

cartridge + rear shock = from $1500 - $3000 (best performance option, money no object)

Those are quoted prices for a ninja 300 and should be more or less the same for a ninja 250.

I would suggest you look into these options before a fork swap.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 04:13 PM   #12
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here in Greece a "famous" swap is the usd from an Aprilia RS125 2-stroke sport bike...fits without any mods...the whole system and
front wheel is same size but lighter than 250's and works ideally for RACING use with a rider of about 65-80kgs(that's about 140-175lbs) but this swap is no good for commuting with a passenger...
for my 250 I have chosen hyperpro's stiffest linear springs (8,5Nm/mm) and oil of 15 viscosity because it works better in our kinda hotter climata and is much better for haeavy riders like myself (90kgs-200lbs) my rear shock is a gsxr600 '06 model (saw the post here and tried it, huge improvement and quite cheap...)

I strongly reccomend you stick with oem forks and invest on springs and thicker oil if your riding with your wifeand/or some luggage...

now for the brakes... rear just some ebc race pads, steel line and 5.1 brake fluid
front still running on oem disc but caliper is sumitomo oem R1 (blue taps)and so is the brembo master cylinder ('06 mod)
can do endo whenever I please...soon I 'll try the 320mm oversize disc...
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 05:34 PM   #13
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just get stiffer springs in the forks. they are only about $120.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 11:59 PM   #14
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Thinking of the same..

Hey guys,

Saw the GSXR front end swap AND rear shock swap, I am very interested.

I'm most definitely going to do the rear shock swap.. ( I am aware it brings the back of the bike down about 15mm) Following this guide by @Rexbo https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59486

What about a front end swap? I have checked on allballsbearings website that both the top and bottom bearings of the ID and OD and Width are identical to that of a Ninja 300 (the bike I wanna do the swap with). Is this possible?

So if I do the front shock swap, what about swapping the wheel, tires, rotors and brake calipers? What are your thoughts or concerns? (main reason behind this is aesthetic over performance really) and if I do change my front end, I will also have to change my rear rim to a 4.5 inch to match the front I think...

I'm also concerned about the height difference the fork conversion would make..

Anyone done it before?

Any comments would be appreciated.

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Old August 26th, 2014, 07:07 AM   #15
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^@lukephua

TLDR, you will probably have clearance issues with the larger forks and clip ons, probably easiest just to stick with the gsxr wheel. You can make anything work if you really want it to but that doesn't mean that it works well.



I have read a little about the swap it seems yes the steering stem is going to swap in and that is the easy part.

as pointed out, you are stuck with stock wheel unless you want to get spacers IDK? you are walking your own path at that point. If you go back to stock wheel with spacers you have to deal with rotor caliper line up issues again, on your own.

^these things make it seem like you are better off keeping the gsxr front wheel. But I have read their are clearance issues with with larger forks IDK? never done it just what I read. As far as front end height... you can adjust the forks in the triple to give you a little bit of say not sure about the clip ons either though, probably clearance issues.
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