CDI replacing BRT i-DTIS with Programmable or Non-Programmable?

[wyciwug]

Hello fellas

I think my bike has CDi problem and looking to replace one with this BRT i-DTIS. The owner on the site is an arse. Sent 3 emails, replied with only one, no help.

I do not know which I should buy between programmable or the other. Can anyone please help? Price is 200 to 305
Thank you!!!

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

Hello fellas

I think my bike has CDi problem and looking to replace one with this BRT i-DTIS. The owner on the site is an arse. Sent 3 emails, replied with only one, no help.

I do not know which I should buy between programmable or the other. Can anyone please help? Price is 200 to 305
Thank you!!!

What did he say?
If you're not racing the bike or modifying it to a large degree (cams, pistons, nitrous, larger carbs etc..), you only need the non programmable version. The two pre-programmed maps contained in it are more than enough for the casual street rider.

[DaBlue1]

Need more info?
See post #18, #20 & #22 of this thread

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

What did he say?
If you're not racing the bike or modifying it to a large degree (cams, pistons, nitrous, larger carbs etc..), you only need the non programmable version. The two pre-programmed maps contained in it are more than enough for the casual street rider.

First email, he only sent me to the website with a link. Then no answer after 2 more emails i asked between progr and non programming. He sent from an IPhone!! So i am pretty sure he checks email often.

Thanks, i am a normal rider, so I will be non programmable one. Thanks

[subxero]

just buy a used stock cdi?

$30 bucks and it's yours what's your shipping address. I take pay pal j/k... but seriously PM if you are interested

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by subxero

just buy a used stock cdi?

$30 bucks and it's yours what's your shipping address. I take pay pal j/k... but seriously PM if you are interested

I heard used one will cause problem as well.

[subxero]

IDK?? who said that? your bike is stock right? not sure what the problem would be?

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by subxero

IDK?? who said that? your bike is stock right? not sure what the problem would be?

all of 2008-2010 250 seems to have same problem so basically all cdi has problem. Google you will find lots of infor.

[Swann]

I've got a BRT on my bike, what do you want to know?

[Swann]

I have a BRT on my bike, what do you want to know?

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by subxero

just buy a used stock cdi?

$30 bucks and it's yours what's your shipping address. I take pay pal j/k... but seriously PM if you are interested

why not do a swap back to the older version? there is a DIY on here....

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by Swann

I've got a BRT on my bike, what do you want to know?

I installed the BRT and the tach needle no longer jumped which is good. Obviously the stock CDI has a problem. However after installing the BRT, starting the bike is difficult. Took about 5-6 times to start it. I did not install the on/off switch. The idle is high. The RPM is also high. Right now if i do 60mph, RPM is around 7500 to 8000. Is that something I can do to adjust it?

BRT sent me a map in PDF file and they did not tell me much. I am confused.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

I installed the BRT and the tach needle no longer jumped which is good. Obviously the stock CDI has a problem. However after installing the BRT, starting the bike is difficult. Took about 5-6 times to start it. I did not install the on/off switch. The idle is high. The RPM is also high. Right now if i do 60mph, RPM is around 7500 to 8000. Is that something I can do to adjust it?

BRT sent me a map in PDF file and they did not tell me much. I am confused.

Keep in mind this is not a direct stock replacement, but a racing CDI. Many have done slight modifications to tweak the performance of the bike when installing The BRT. What have you done?

60 mph @ 7500 rpms is about right for a bike with stock gearing. Install a 15 tooth front sprocket and your speed will change to approx 65 mph @ 7500 rpms.

[wyciwug]

Thank you Dablue. my bike is 100% stock. Ok, I will buy the 15tooth sprocket. Thank you!

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

Thank you Dablue. my bike is 100% stock. Ok, I will buy the 15tooth sprocket. Thank you!

Since your bike is stock, you may also want to consider shimming the needles and removing the snorkel, and adjusting your idle speed (where the bike performs the best). Shimming the needles tends to help the 1/4 -3/4 throttle range and in many cases starting and idle issues. Each bike is different.

Note; an slight increase in idle speed with the BRT-iDTIS is normal, however, it should not be so high as to cause overheating.

[subxero]

did you get the programmable or non programmable?

If my memory serves me correctly the switch in the OFF position or switch not even hooked up... I think? check the switch to see if on is the closed circuit or not? to make sure.

But yeah switch in OFF position = more advanced map (more performance) and also = suggested to run higher octane fuel. If I remember correctly if you want to run the non performance map you need to wire the switch circuit closed or just use the switch.

I have the programmable and I don't use the switch but set both maps the same so avoid any of this confusion in the instance I could not remember the finer details... and clearly it was a good idea.

[wyciwug]

I bought the non programmable. I did not use the switch. I leave it the way it is and installed.

[subxero]

^ yes I read that already. Do you know which map is which though? since you did not use the switch, that circuit is left open which is probably the same as having the switch in the OFF position. (again I don't know which way the switch works, I could check when I get home. ON and OFF on the switch doesn't have to mean closed and open for the circuit) But with the switch circuit open (no switch wired in) that may be the performance map, I am not sure. YOU should look into it and make sure you are running the correct map for the fuel you are using. Advanced timing and lower grade octane can result in pinging and detonation.

[wyciwug]

I didn't use the switch but I put the closed loop white plug as you see in the picture. I always use 93 octain gas.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

I didn't use the switch but I put the closed loop white plug as you see in the picture. I always use 93 octain gas.

Since you have the closed loop plug in and your bike is stock, you should use 87 octane. 93 won't hurt, however you are more than likely wasting money given the RFG (reformulated gas) standards in the DMV area.

[wyciwug]

They sent me this and little note on the email. I do not understand.

regarding the BRT,



===============
Jumper not installed or switch is in OFF position = standard map (map 1 in pdf sheet), if unsure please check lights on ignition unit, if red light only is on then ignition is on standard map.

Jumper installed or switch is in ON position = tune up map (map 2 in pdf sheet), to make sure, red light and green light on the ignition both have to be on, then ignition is on tune up map.

===============

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

They sent me this and little note on the email. I do not understand.

regarding the BRT,



===============
Jumper not installed or switch is in OFF position = standard map (map 1 in pdf sheet), if unsure please check lights on ignition unit, if red light only is on then ignition is on standard map.

Jumper installed or switch is in ON position = tune up map (map 2 in pdf sheet), to make sure, red light and green light on the ignition both have to be on, then ignition is on tune up map.

===============

Go with what the instructions say, as you may have the newer model. The older model (IIRC) jumper in = less aggressive map #1, jumper out= map#2

A little test run won't hurt either, to determine which one you like best.

[Bob2010]

Looking at those timing tables , it's very impressive to peg the timing at 43*
I would use premium gas and hope for no knock (not sure how the non-efi bikes retard timing in case of knock)

I wouldn't mind a stronger pulling bike using more timing but it makes me wondering if I'm pushing the limits at all No way to monitor it

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Bob2010

.....I wouldn't mind a stronger pulling bike using more timing but it makes me wondering if I'm pushing the limits at all No way to monitor it

You wouldn't be pushing the limits. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...4&postcount=17

You can always get a programmable version if you wanted to change your map.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

I didn't use the switch but I put the closed loop white plug as you see in the picture. I always use 93 octain gas.

alright that makes sense then, you never mentioned you were using the closed loop plug.

[wyciwug]

Starting the bike is very difficult now. It takes many tries to make it start. This is going to make the starter dies soon.

[Bob2010]

See it's not about changing the map. It's about adding timing safely until knock then back off
How does one do this with a carb'd ninja?

I would like to trust the maps pre programmed but how can one tell if it's doing any harm?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Bob2010

See it's not about changing the map. It's about adding timing safely until knock then back off
How does one do this with a carb'd ninja?

I would like to trust the maps pre programmed but how can one tell if it's doing any harm?

Incorrect ignition timing causes poor fuel economy, sluggish acceleration, hard starting, backfiring, or "pinging" or "spark knock". Too little spark advance will cause low power, bad gas mileage, backfiring, and poor performance. Too much advance will cause hard starting and pre-ignition.

The best way to tell what you're engine is doing and if you're getting the best performance is on a dyno. Ask Racer X who has done dozens of dyno runs trying to get his timing right for his land speed record runs.

[Racer x]

This is what I do. With stock compression on a 2008 or newer engine . Start with the 88 to 94 ignition module timing that was set at 42 deg. Stock for an 08-12 is 35 deg. Set your timing to 42 across the board. 10 up to 3500. But 42 deg all the way to 16000 rpm then save. You must save . Ride it and see how it goes. Jetting the carb at 112 keihn jets . Maybe a shim under the needle. If you have a flat spot around. 8000 rpm add a deg or two from 7500 to 9000 and you are done. I have spent hundreds of hours on the dyno playing with the BRT ignition system . It rocks . Don't go over 44 deg and also use cooler plugs

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

Starting the bike is very difficult now. It takes many tries to make it start. This is going to make the starter dies soon.

What is your starting procedure like?
Do you use choke?
Do you slightly open the throttle?
Keep in mind your bike is no longer stock, so the things you used to do, you may have to tweak. You may have to use map#1 and 87 octane adjust your idle mixture screws. Testing and tuning is going to be your best approach.

[Somchai]

@wyciwug - "However after installing the BRT, starting the bike is difficult."
That's because the timing in the lower range with 27 degree is advanced much to high, there it's better to retard the ignition for easier starting.

@Bob2010 - the 43 degrees is no problem, I'm using this also on my 2011 Ninja (even with 87 gasoline there's absolute no knocking). Also the gas usage is going down by up to 15% - not to talk about the much better response and more powerful feel of the engine.

[Bob2010]

I been on the fence about using the brt for a bit..... I would like to try it...

[sharky nrk]

I really would like to try the BRT or even the Pregen CDI as well. The aftermarket modules are so expensive for what you get though.

[vmax]

Originally Posted by wyciwug

I didn't use the switch but I put the closed loop white plug as you see in the picture. I always use 93 octain gas.

Hi, I am using BRT also. I think closed loop (jumper) is in Map 2. Take a look green light ON, when you disconnect jumper then Green light is OFF. I am using switch, off switch (O) map1 and on switch (-) map2.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I really would like to try the BRT or even the Pregen CDI as well. The aftermarket modules are so expensive for what you get though.

Link: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html
Scroll down to the Ignition Advancer Kit RTR-KAW-5-05.

Why don't you go this not so expensive way? That's what I'm using - very happy with it.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Bob2010

See it's not about changing the map. It's about adding timing safely until knock then back off
How does one do this with a carb'd ninja?

I would like to trust the maps pre programmed but how can one tell if it's doing any harm?

250 motors can be had for cheap, i paid more for the programmable ignition timer.

I have been running one of the more aggressive maps on the map chart for quite some time on pump 93, I feel like my bike has been running stellar especially as of lately. I hope to get it on a dyno in the next month or so

If it goes well it goes, ill see if i can salvage anything, if not lightly used engine for a couple hundred bucks

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Link: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html
Scroll down to the Ignition Advancer Kit RTR-KAW-5-05.

Why don't you go this not so expensive way? That's what I'm using - very happy with it.

how was the flywheel to get off? I caught hell on the XRs getting the their's off even with a good puller

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

how was the flywheel to get off? I caught hell on the XRs getting the their's off even with a good puller

You need the Kwaki flywheel puller and with that it's really easy.

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

What is your starting procedure like?
Do you use choke?
Do you slightly open the throttle?
Keep in mind your bike is no longer stock, so the things you used to do, you may have to tweak. You may have to use map#1 and 87 octane adjust your idle mixture screws. Testing and tuning is going to be your best approach.

at first, i turned key, start the bike normally. If it does not start, i use the throttle or choke or combine of the 2 a few times until it starts.

[wyciwug]

Originally Posted by vmax

Hi, I am using BRT also. I think closed loop (jumper) is in Map 2. Take a look green light ON, when you disconnect jumper then Green light is OFF. I am using switch, off switch (O) map1 and on switch (-) map2.

Did you have a hard time starting the bike?