Damsel in Distress!

[Vagabondesss]

Hey, I'm a girl, therefore I am helpless and in need of a knight in shining armour to save me and..and.... *collapses into nearby flowers*

Ok now that we've gotten that part over with...

So, my friend and I have the same motorcycle (Kawasaki Ninja 250). Mine has 17000 km (2012, I'm the first owner, have done a lot of long distance) and his has 11000 km (2008, with 3 owners). We have ridden each others bikes a few times to compare and here are the following differences, which are a concern;

Mine:

-Gets hotter on the right fairing
-Louder
-Takes longer to accelerate (noticeable difference)
-Doesn't go as fast as his (I've gotten mine to 145 km/h (90mph). He's apparently gotten his to go to 175 km/h..maybe downhill?)
-My rpms are significantly higher! (77mph)125 km/h I'm at 11k rpm. On his bike at 125km/h it's at 9k rpm. We both checked.
-My bike uses less gas (even when my spark plugs were horrible!), but he rides harder than I do so that*could explain it.
-My fan is*usually on once we stop riding, but not his.
-Overall my bike feels like it takes more effort to go faster, like the engine is more..clogged or something, or heavier. Not sure what other term I should use, not sure how to explain. We are unaware of any mods his bike may have.

Overall his bike just feels more fluid, and like it just wants to go, compared to mine.*We have both JUST changed our spark plugs, oil/oil filter, and air filters at the same time.

Another thing*worth mentioning.. Once, on a hot day in Florida, I was cruising at 120km/h on the highway (for an hour or so) and my engine*just shut off! I pulled over and was able to re-start the bike about 45 minutes later (prior to that, the bike would turn over but not actually start). I am worried this will happen again. Coolant level turned out to be low but not too low. I've been monitoring it since and it's fine.

So far I've spoken to one mechanic about the rpm issue and he said either there is something wrong with my clutch or someone changed the*sprocket (on his bike). I got my Ninja new and have done some serious long-distance*riding on it but overall I am very gentle with the bike.

I am thinking one of us may have a faulty*speedometer as well. When I was doing 140 km/h on his bike it didn't feel like I was going that fast. Obviously I am annoyed that my bike is "slower" than his bike and am determined to fix this. Feeling competitive,*maybe?

What is your opinion on this? I don't know that much about*motorcycles but I want to learn, and so far I have been working on my own bike*with the help of some more experienced*motorcyclists.

I use low octane gas.

I haven't cleaned my carbs yet. Bike has never sat unridden for more than 2 weeks. Chain*is fine. I just bought some seafoam....

Can't*think of any*other info worth mentioning. Other that I am hella jealous and I want my Ninja to be better than his! (Mo, if you are reading this, I am just kidding).

If you have any opinions or suggestions...

[NevadaWolf]

Re: RPMs, check his sprocket. Stock is 14 teeth, but going up to a 15 tooth will lower the revs for easier highway riding. Rear sprocket is 45 tooth stock. Going down will also lower the revs.

Speedo is easy to check assuming you have a relatively modern smart phone. Download a GPS app that'll display the speed and find a long straight stretch to compare the speedo against the GPS. There will be a slight variance (all bike speedos read a bit faster (?) ) but you'll be able to see if there is a major difference.

Um, that's all I got. next!

[Ghostt]

Low octane rating is fine, have you checked the fuel filter? It's located in the fuel inlet elbow itself in the carburetor. It's a small plastic one that slips inside of the inlet elbow itself.

I agree with @NevadaWolf check his gearing, and yours, I personally did the 15 teeth on the front, and 43 rear, 70mph is about 7,500 RPMs.

Assuming the clutch cable is properly adjusted, it could be the wrong kind of oil causing the slippage, the bike uses a wet clutch, so if the oil is not the proper kind, could cause slippage.

Some oils contain additives that while work for car engines to be super slippery, are a no-no for wet clutch, any 10w-40 to 20w50 rated JASO-MA/MA2 oil will do just fine. Shell Rotella synthetic is safe, and popular choice.

Personally I'd change the clutch springs themselves now, as they are the weak link in the clutch set-up, the clutch itself is more than capable, Kawasaki used it on the bigger bikes like ZX1000 etc.. it's the springs you need to change, this should be on the list of must have IMHO.

Upgrading to performance clutch springs by Ghostt

Choosing Clutch Springs

Barnett aftermarket clutch springs for a 1985-1989 ZX-600, Part # 501-50-05055. You can view them online at the Barnett catalog, here: http://www.barnettclutches.com/produ...&clutch_cc=600 They can be ordered through your local dealership, or at a number of online sources. Here is one such online catalog: http://www.exoticsportbike.com/6001.htm

Another option is the EBC CSK10 (see http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_..._springs.shtml). This kit isn't quite as stiff as the Barnett, but is better than stock and usually a little cheaper. The kit does include six springs, while the ninja 250 only uses four.

Category: Clutch & Transmission

Below you can see the difference between the stock(yellow stripe) vs hd springs(red stripe) themselves, they are thicker, and a little bit longer. And no need to worry about it making the clutch too stiff, remember the Ninjette only uses 4 not 6, even more of a reason to upgrade to better springs.



I have done this on both my EX500 and Ninjette bikes.

As far as running hot issue goes, make sure the coolant level right, after that I got nothing,. I myself use ENGINE ICE, seems to work just fine, others use RED LINE WATER WETTER added to the regular coolant.

Invest in a K&N replacement air filter, NOT PODS!!!! If anything do the washer modification to the main jet needles. I personally use 2 under each needle.


For shimming your carb needles you need to look for #4 washers. These have the following dimensions, listed in decimal, fractional, and metric sizes:

ID = 0.1250" , 1/8" , 3.175mm
OD = 0.3750" , 3/8" , 9.525mm
thickness = 0.0400" , 1.016mm
If you can't find #4 washers, try to get an assortment that is close in dimension. Those with 2.5 - 3mm inside diameter, and not being too much larger than 3/8"/9.5mm outside should be fine. As always, it's better to get a few more than you need, rather than having to keep going back to the store.

The washers fit on the needles as shown below. This will raise the needles. Note that the washers shown are only for illustrative purposes; the actual ones used are much thinner.

[Panda]

Like @NevadaWolf said you can check your speed using an app. Get one that records and saves the max speed. That way you can stick it in your pocket get up to X indicated on your speedo, pull over, then check the delta on your phone.

I wouldn't recommend trying to hold your phone while riding trying to look at the gps speedo. Unless you taped the phone to your helmet and blocked half your vision. Tha'ts probably safe.

[Skullz]

If the chain is still stock then it is possible that you are losing some mph from that as the chain stretches over time and can even have a small amount of bind to it resulting in the slightly slower mph your experiencing. I ran my stock chain for 15k miles with what i thought were enough chain oiling's but as it turned out it wasn't nearly enough and i noticed a loss in top end speed, once the chain was replaced it felt like a whole different machine again.
Also check and make sure your tire pressures are where they need to be.
Not much else i can add more to what has already been posted.

[Floki]

Working at a dealership we see a lot of people that have their clutch levers not adjusted properly. They have some freeplay in them(they move a little without engaging the clutch). If there is no slack there, you'll ride constantly with the clutch slightly engaged. Give that a once over as well as all the advice previously given.

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by Floki

Working at a dealership we see a lot of people that have their clutch levers not adjusted properly. They have some freeplay in them(they move a little without engaging the clutch). If there is no slack there, you'll ride constantly with the clutch slightly engaged. Give that a once over as well as all the advice previously given.

I had my clutch adjusted by someone once. It does have some play but who knows. Very good point. I will make sure it's adjusted properly, thanks!!!

Someone else mentioned the brakes could be sticking?

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by Skullz

If the chain is still stock then it is possible that you are losing some mph from that as the chain stretches over time and can even have a small amount of bind to it resulting in the slightly slower mph your experiencing. I ran my stock chain for 15k miles with what i thought were enough chain oiling's but as it turned out it wasn't nearly enough and i noticed a loss in top end speed, once the chain was replaced it felt like a whole different machine again.
Also check and make sure your tire pressures are where they need to be.
Not much else i can add more to what has already been posted.

His chain is stock too. Someone adjusted my chain once. I was told my chain doesn't need to be replaced.

Tire pressure! I am lazy with that occasionally. I will check again... thanks!

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by Panda

Like @NevadaWolf said you can check your speed using an app. Get one that records and saves the max speed. That way you can stick it in your pocket get up to X indicated on your speedo, pull over, then check the delta on your phone.

I wouldn't recommend trying to hold your phone while riding trying to look at the gps speedo. Unless you taped the phone to your helmet and blocked half your vision. Tha'ts probably safe.

Hahhahaa! I could put the phone in my tank bag, there is a clear pocket!

@nevadawold I do have an iPhone. I didn't even know there was an app for that. Then again there is an app for everything!!

[Vagabondesss]

@Ghostt

Wow! Thanks!

I use Rotella synthetic 5w40. We both just changed it to that, since the internet told me to.

I didn't know about the clutch springs... his clutch is pretty messed up. 3 beginners rode the hell out of the clutch on his bike. Thank you so much for the extra info and pictures, that is really helpful!

No idea what kind of coolant is in there. Is changing the coolant hard? Why do you think my engine is hotter on the right side specifically?

We actually wanted the K&N air filters but the shop didn't have them and we wanted to change them that day..oops

Messing with the carbs will probably result in my bike somehow turning into a pile of bits and pieces on my parents' driveway...
@NevadaWolf I'll check his sprockets though I can't see why they would have been changed since the previous owners knew nothing about bikes. But I should probably change mine anyways, since I do so much highway riding. Cruising at 11k rpm for hours can't be good..right?

[Ghostt]

@Vagabondesss

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...ling_system%3F

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

@nevadawolf I do have an iPhone. I didn't even know there was an app for that. Then again there is an app for everything!!

There should be simply GPS Speed apps listed that take the location data from your phone and display the readings. Make sure to turn on the location services if you've disabled those in the settings.

Or you can look for a HUD (heads up display) app. That'll give you a basic display with your speed. Just make sure it is one that can be read both forward and backwards as must HUDs are meant to be seen in the reflection of a windshield.

[InvisiBill]

Speedometer + HUD is a simple, free digital speedo/HUD app for iThings.



Speedometer'' is another one I like as a dash-style app. It shows the speed both digitally and with an analog needle, plus your compass, address, and weather in landscape mode.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

For shimming your carb needles you need to look for #4 washers. These have the following dimensions, listed in decimal, fractional, and metric sizes:

ID = 0.1250" , 1/8" , 3.175mm
OD = 0.3750" , 3/8" , 9.525mm
thickness = 0.0400" , 1.016mm
If you can't find #4 washers, try to get an assortment that is close in dimension. Those with 2.5 - 3mm inside diameter, and not being too much larger than 3/8"/9.5mm outside should be fine. As always, it's better to get a few more than you need, rather than having to keep going back to the store.

Found some washers in a bin at work.

Don't have a caliper or micrometer handy, but did have a magnifying glass and a steel ruler marked in 64ths.

As near as my old eyes can tell they are 2/64ths thick (.79mm), hole is 7/64ths (2.8 mm) and the exterior diameter is 15/64ths (5.9 mm)

Is that exterior diameter too small?

Looks like other dimensions are good to go.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Found some washers in a bin at work.

Don't have a caliper or micrometer handy, but did have a magnifying glass and a steel ruler marked in 64ths.

As near as my old eyes can tell they are 2/64ths thick (.79mm), hole is 7/64ths (2.8 mm) and the exterior diameter is 15/64ths (5.9 mm)

Is that exterior diameter too small?

Looks like other dimensions are good to go.

Those should be fine, you will know for sure when you put them on the needles, and verify they fit.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Those should be fine, you will know for sure when you put them on the needles, and verify they fit.

Just wanted to make sure it was worth bringing them home. Those little washers are heavy.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Just wanted to make sure it was worth bringing them home. Those little washers are heavy.

I hear you, start by adding one, test ride, then try other one, personally I have 2 per needle.

Also remember to fine tune the idle mixture screws per my write-up.

Your initial setting should be 3 full turns out from the bottom, remember just slightly tighten them, don't go all Conan on them.



Then warm it up, slowly turn 1 side pilot screw in until the rpms drop, then back out till RPM's peak (and no further)* Twist throttle...see how it reacts...tweak to taste.
Repeat on other side... test ride. You're looking for best throttle response and transition from just cracked to 1/4 throttle opening or so.*

Thats a quickie, 10 cent tutorial on setting pilot screws.**

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Hey, I'm a girl, therefore I am helpless

Is this what they call, "out of context"?

[alex.s]

i dont know if i like this whole 'im a helpless girl' argument. i know plenty of women who are pretty competent in bikes... i disagree with people talking about the clutch.

to me it sounds like, A) one of the speedometers is off. and B) you need to change your coolant and maybe do some carb work.

[verboten1]

What they said.

[InvisiBill]

http://www.gearingcommander.com/ will show you how fast you should be going at a given RPM in a given gear. It won't tell you what's wrong, but it'll tell you if your bike is going the speed it should be in stock form.

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Is this what they call, "out of context"?

Haha! no no, please don't take me seriously, it's a joke!

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i dont know if i like this whole 'im a helpless girl' argument. i know plenty of women who are pretty competent in bikes... i disagree with people talking about the clutch.

to me it sounds like, A) one of the speedometers is off. and B) you need to change your coolant and maybe do some carb work.

I most definitely did not mean that seriously. My gender has nothing to do with this, I meant it as a joke. I think I'm funny, but I'm usually not

I really think his speedometer might be off. I was actually out of town for the last couple of weeks so we haven't had a chance to compare

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

http://www.gearingcommander.com/ will show you how fast you should be going at a given RPM in a given gear. It won't tell you what's wrong, but it'll tell you if your bike is going the speed it should be in stock form.

Thanks! This is awesome!

[Vagabondesss]

UPDATE:

I put sea foam in my lat gas tank and it made a difference. No lag when I twist the throttle.

Still have not done any comparing with my friend's bike.

I also bought myself a new horn. I can't wait to install it... so the loudness of my horn can come a little closer to matching the level of my anger...

[verboten1]

Sometimes seafoam is the miracle that they claim it to be!

It has kept my KLR going for years. I actually have to pull the carb this year. It's just gotten too bad.

Glad it worked for you!

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Haha! no no, please don't take me seriously, it's a joke!

I'm not sure you're allowed to joke on here. This is a pretty serious forum.

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by verboten1

Sometimes seafoam is the miracle that they claim it to be!

It has kept my KLR going for years. I actually have to pull the carb this year. It's just gotten too bad.

Glad it worked for you!

Someone told me I need to clean my carbs every season... everyone keeps telling me different things... -sigh-

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I'm not sure you're allowed to joke on here. This is a pretty serious forum.

Hey, the only person I make fun of is myself!

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Hey, the only person I make fun of is myself!

you are CC's antithesis

[Ghostt]

Seafoam is a preventive maintenance, in order for it to work, it must be able to flow thru, in the case of blockage, it doesn't work.

Have you inspected the fuel filter? It's located in the fuel inlet elbow on the carburetor.

[cookiebug79]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Someone told me I need to clean my carbs every season... everyone keeps telling me different things... -sigh-

Quit listening to everyone else and do the research to find out what's wrong yourself

From your description, I would be willing to bet the following few things:
1. Your friend's bike does not have stock gearing
2. Your friend's bike likely has had the carburetors apart a few times and either been cleaned, shimmed, or re-jetted.
3. Your bike probably needs some basic maintenance - Coolant flush, chain lube/inspection/replacement, tire inspection, carb cleaning, clutch cable adjustment.

From one woman to another, please do yourself the favor of understanding your own motorcycle. This forum is a wonderful resource for information. Please continue to ask questions, but do not rely on "what you've been told."

For example: "I've been told that my chain is ok"
By whom and why do you trust this person's opinion?
If they say it's ok, what are they looking at to make that determination? Why do they have this opinion?
What does the manual say you should look at? Is it consistent with what that person is saying?

Take that opportunity to learn what to look for so you don't have to rely on other people's opinions and conflicting information.

Also, don't be afraid to take things apart. When I work on my bikes, I often take pictures along the way and use it as an easy reference of how cables were routed, which bolts came from where, and how things fit together. That way if I get stuck I can look at what is different and figure out the problem pretty easily.

[verboten1]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Someone told me I need to clean my carbs every season... everyone keeps telling me different things... -sigh-

Hah, that's because everyone is an expert.

I only pulled the KLR carb once because I was changing jetting and once because I was building the engine.

To me it's a not broken don't fix kind of thing.

[Ghostt]

My 2¢

Carburetors have consumable parts, float needles, O-rings, NewGen has an OEM fuel filter, etc...

While once a year cleaning might seem extreme to some, to some it's just something to do and R.D.I. = REMOVE DISASSEMBLE INSPECT which is to some is preventive maintenance, and a good excuse to get dirty.

In the end it's your call, time, and your bike.

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

Quit listening to everyone else and do the research to find out what's wrong yourself

From your description, I would be willing to bet the following few things:
1. Your friend's bike does not have stock gearing
2. Your friend's bike likely has had the carburetors apart a few times and either been cleaned, shimmed, or re-jetted.
3. Your bike probably needs some basic maintenance - Coolant flush, chain lube/inspection/replacement, tire inspection, carb cleaning, clutch cable adjustment.

From one woman to another, please do yourself the favor of understanding your own motorcycle. This forum is a wonderful resource for information. Please continue to ask questions, but do not rely on "what you've been told."

For example: "I've been told that my chain is ok"
By whom and why do you trust this person's opinion?
If they say it's ok, what are they looking at to make that determination? Why do they have this opinion?
What does the manual say you should look at? Is it consistent with what that person is saying?

Take that opportunity to learn what to look for so you don't have to rely on other people's opinions and conflicting information.

Also, don't be afraid to take things apart. When I work on my bikes, I often take pictures along the way and use it as an easy reference of how cables were routed, which bolts came from where, and how things fit together. That way if I get stuck I can look at what is different and figure out the problem pretty easily.

I'm *trying* to do the research myself, I'm trying to *learn* (which is why I'm here), especially because I'm on the road so much, and sometimes in remote areas, so I need to try to be fully independent. There won't always be a nearby shop.. just me alone with my ****** toolkit

I should definitely clarify; the people who have given me decent advice have either worked at a shop, or know quite a bit about working on motorcycles. I'm definitely not going to take advice from some random guy who has a bike.. though there are plenty of those who think they're qualified to give advice!

The guy who told me my chain was ok was a motorcycle mechanic friend.. I should've clarified. I did end up checking up on the chain myself after my other friend freaked out, and the slack was ok.

If I'm on the road and want advice I will usually stop by a random bike shop and ask the mechanic.. this usually will end up being a random small town in a random US state.. and they are always more than happy to give me advice and actually look at the bike and point and explain etc.

There seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions in the motorcycling world though...

That's actually a *very* good idea, taking photos when taking things apart on the bike! I am definitely going to do that! Thanks a lot I never even thought of that.. but it would help so much

At first I would never have imagined just reading something online and then doing it on my bike (maybe for some minor stuff, I will do so now). I feel like I would need to go to someone experienced and have them show me how to do it, and then watch me do it.

Which is why I was hanging out at shops etc, because I really feel like I need the hands on learning before attempting anything on my own. Motorcycle mechanics is not something I want to be overconfident with :/ Time to watch more youtube videos..

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Seafoam is a preventive maintenance, in order for it to work, it must be able to flow thru, in the case of blockage, it doesn't work.

Have you inspected the fuel filter? It's located in the fuel inlet elbow on the carburetor.

Ok I will inspect it!!

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by verboten1

Hah, that's because everyone is an expert.

I only pulled the KLR carb once because I was changing jetting and once because I was building the engine.

To me it's a not broken don't fix kind of thing.

Aren't KLRs known for how little maintenance they need? I might get one later. They are more suitable for off road purposes than my Ninja...

[Vagabondesss]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

My 2¢

Carburetors have consumable parts, float needles, O-rings, NewGen has an OEM fuel filter, etc...

While once a year cleaning might seem extreme to some, to some it's just something to do and R.D.I. = REMOVE DISASSEMBLE INSPECT which is to some is preventive maintenance, and a good excuse to get dirty.

In the end it's your call, time, and your bike.

I can definitely see that. I mean, there's no harm in actually cleaning one's carbs more often than less often, right?

[verboten1]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

Aren't KLRs known for how little maintenance they need? I might get one later. They are more suitable for off road purposes than my Ninja...

I did replace a few things when I got it, but it's been a pretty reliable bike otherwise.

Surprisingly the ninja is pretty good on the forest service roads and whatnot.
It just needs more suspension.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Vagabondesss

I can definitely see that. I mean, there's no harm in actually cleaning one's carbs more often than less often, right?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.