Kawi Click or something else?

[johncrist1988]

Originally Posted by greg737

Sorry to hear that the problem is still ongoing. Here's a thought:

After reading your most recent post (quoted above) I'm wondering, have you measured the Cam Chain length? The reason I ask is that the parts that make up the Cam Chain Tensioner system are designed to interface with a Cam Chain that falls within a very narrow specification for overall length.


And now, one of my overall motorcycle ownership beliefs:

In spite of the fact that all of our Pre-Gen EX250 engines come from the same manufacturing assembly line, they still end up having individual personalities, individual problems... some are better, seemingly bulletproof while others are worse, so problematic they're close to "lemon" status.

Some of these Pre-Gen engines just keep on going, mile after mile like the Energizer Bunny, while others fail. I'm sure that some of this is out of our (the owner's) control but there is one thing that can change an engine's overall "personality" for the worse and that is when the engine's oil is allowed to go too long between changes or if the engine oil is allowed to get too low. Just once in the engine's lifetime is enough to start the decline. And when you're a second or third owner you just never really know if that has happened to your bike.

I can tell you that, at least the last owner, didn't change the oil probably ever. When I changed the oil about two weeks ago it was as thin as water. The bolt keeping the filter in is slightly stripped and rusted over, so it's going to need shop time to get that bolt replaced unless I can find someone with an impact wrench to remove it. For now it at least has fresh oil until I can get that filter replaced. There weren't any specs or anything in the oil, either -- it was quite good looking short of being so thin.

I haven't measured my cam chain length as I don't have an instrument to precisely measure with. When I do grab a vernier dial or something I'll pull the valve cover and check it. What is confusing is that a manual tensioner will do the job and the rattle goes away through the entire RPM range. The automatic tensioner, however, doesn't seem to do the job hardly at all, and that's regardless of whether you're using brand new springs or not. My bearings are good, the pushrod has absolutely no sign of wear on it, and I can tell oil is getting up there to lubricate the whole thing. I just don't get it.

[johncrist1988]

Some bad news.

Reinstalling the manual tensioner, I overtorqued (arm torqued) the bolt and the cam chain snapped.

I'm investigating options at this point, and here's what I've come up with:

1) Buy a used engine on FleeBay. Easiest with the most potential risk. Can I swap an engine with just a ratchet and screwdriver set? Because that's pretty much all I have.

2) Replace the cam chain. It'll involve splitting the case, refinishing the mating surfaces, and at this point probably replacing the valves. Might as well do it right and do new pistons, rings, etc, since it's all already open.

3) Buy a new 250.

What other options might be out there that I'm not thinking about? To my knowledge you have to completely open the casing to replace the chain.


Lesson learned: torque wrench. Always.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by spooph

I think this due in large part because Kawi doesn't list cam chain tensioner maintenance in their maintenance schedule... Or maybe I've over looked it or people don't make a big enough deal about it...

You change the oil, adjust the valves and maintain every other part of the bike. Only after I had to replace my cam chain did I realize that it too needs to be adjusted... Now the cam chain tensioner on the pregen is very basic when compared to the one on the new gen...

I got in the habit of rebuilding my cam chain tensioner with every valve adjustment. I actually got a second stock one from @Mamaru when he changed to a manual tensioner... So I can take my time rebuilding it and having it ready when I do the valves....

But the pre-gen's tensioner is so easy to take apart and rebuild it should just be added to the checklist for a valve adjust.

So, why does it "fail", because it's a sleeve within a sleeve, and getting oil up in there is difficult, never mind the fact that it doesn't have an active oiling system. I've done a few of these, and I put some Bel Ray axles grease on the spring and in the plunger and they are always happy when I take them out for the next valve adjust...

So, not sure it could be constituted as a "failure" on the parts end, maybe on the documentation and making people aware of it?

Either way, my bike is still singing with the stock cam chain tensioner at 60K, after an engine rebuild because the only way to replace the cam chain is to split the cases (or break the guide off the crank case) and while I was in there, why not? If you ever get a new-gen, good luck with rebuilding the tensioner though, it's a serious PITA...

So it's a pain, but where can I find the instructions? Thanks!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by johncrist1988

Some bad news.

Reinstalling the manual tensioner, I overtorqued (arm torqued) the bolt and the cam chain snapped.

I'm investigating options at this point, and here's what I've come up with:

1) Buy a used engine on FleeBay. Easiest with the most potential risk. Can I swap an engine with just a ratchet and screwdriver set? Because that's pretty much all I have.

2) Replace the cam chain. It'll involve splitting the case, refinishing the mating surfaces, and at this point probably replacing the valves. Might as well do it right and do new pistons, rings, etc, since it's all already open.

3) Buy a new 250.

What other options might be out there that I'm not thinking about? To my knowledge you have to completely open the casing to replace the chain.


Lesson learned: torque wrench. Always.

That is frustrating. I over torqued the CCT cap on a J-bike and ripped the soft aluminum threads out but that's not nearly as bad (just stuck a dime over it with some hi-temp RTV). The thing is, I had a torque wrench with the right stuff ready to go right next to it but I thought I'd at least turn it until it tightened before using the torque wrench. With my other tools I had enough leverage that it never felt tight before it was ripping the threads out. Oops.

[spooph]

Originally Posted by CZroe

So it's a pain, but where can I find the instructions? Thanks!

If I ever get around to figuring them out, I will post them up...

The new-gen CCT has a reverse thread plunger inside of a regular thread, keyed plunger, keyed onto the cap which connects to the coiled spring surrounding everything. This means if you wind the spring, you also unscrew the tensioner in a self-defeating cycle...

I did mine by essentially clamping everything in hand, but haven't come up with better instructions yet.