OMG new Honda 250 available for $3999!

[poo poo]

Has anyone test driven it? It has EFI!

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by poo poo

Has anyone test driven it? It has EFI!

its slower, and doesnt handle as well even though its lighter. Great little commuter if you like the styling, don't drive over 60mph, and don't expect to push it hard.

but it does scoot away at low speeds really nicely. Its like a stylish sporty scooter more than a wimpy sport bike, at least thats my impression as a total newb to riding... pro.s and veterans may have different opinions... I don't think it challenges the ninjettes quarter liter supremecy at all sadly, I had high hopes when I heard it was coming as I was looking to start riding.

[sombo]

I take it neither of you have been paying attention to the other threads on this subject which have links to reviews and shootouts between the two?

I hate to tell you mullholland, but you're wrong. In testing it tops out just under the ninjette and has close to the same acceleration. It is actually shaping up to be a MAJOR threat to the ninjette's reign over the 250 market. I highly suggest you go look at those reviews because several of them vote the honda to be the winner in a few of those shootouts.

[bedian]

The Honda may be a good commuter/town bike but on the Highway or in the

corners I'll stick with my Ninja.

[Alex]

/moved to general, not a tech topic.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by sombo

I take it neither of you have been paying attention to the other threads on this subject which have links to reviews and shootouts between the two?

I hate to tell you mullholland, but you're wrong. In testing it tops out just under the ninjette and has close to the same acceleration. It is actually shaping up to be a MAJOR threat to the ninjette's reign over the 250 market. I highly suggest you go look at those reviews because several of them vote the honda to be the winner in a few of those shootouts.

yes I have been following closely, however I was simply responding to a thread someone posted...

That said, "almost as quick" and "almost as fast" are still less quick, and slower. The ninjette is already slow... so getting slower sucks majorly. The cbr250 scoots off briskly but gets passed in tests by the ninja by 60, and does not achieve as high a top speed in testing, and also begins struggling and speed walls much sooner than the ninjette.

Combine that with looks (okay thats subjective, but I would say hardly ), handling, braking (abs doesnt give the honda an edge in my book...) and the proven nature and existing aftermarket support, and readily available technical support, and the cbr will be playing catch up for years to come in my opinion. Meanwhile the ninjette has launched with fuel injection in other world markets, could easily be offered with abs if desired, etc. so kawasaki is essentially sitting on all the ammo they need currently, but I dou t we will even see them pull efi out until the epa demands it honestly, etc.

kawasaki isn't scared, and honda isn't claiming any dominance, they just want to quietly snag some small market share. we'll see how that goes

[SteveL]

Here in Europe Honda have had a VTR 250 on the market for a year or more now.
Spec V twin 22Kw at 10,500 rpm 22Nm 8500
The CBR 250
Spec single 19.5Kw at 8500 rpm 22.9 Nm 7000
The CBR is around $1000 less than the VTR
I think I would be more interested in the VTR even though it’s more $

Steve

[pathfinder]

Motorcycle magazines/websites have done pretty decent reviews already

Honda CBR250R vs Kawasaki Ninja 250R

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/9/9134...inja-250R.aspx

Kawasaki Ninja 250R vs. Honda CBR250R - Comparison Test:

http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle...omparison_test

http://www.cycleworld.com/video/vide...br250r_-_video

[sombo]

You are forgetting that Honda has a HUGE following and many will flock to it because it's a Honda. Also the numbers I've seen for the Honda seem more consistent then the numbers I see for ninjettes in test. Which means it is more predictable in performance. The articles I've read suggest it handles just as good if not better then the ninjette and the non-abs brakes are just as good stopping wise just with less feedback is all. Seriously, many shootouts put the Honda as the winner over the ninjette in almost all but overall power. You think that's going to get lost by many new buyers?

If you think the Honda won't be competition for the ninjette you are only kidding yourself. It has too big of a name, too many praising reviews, performance that's too close already, comes from a company with a major following, has better fit and finish with more updated tech. Not to mention the new racing rules that requires the new batch of racing 250's to be singles. That actually gives Honda the advantage over the ninjette cause now the ninjette will be out of the circuit till Kawi comes up with a good 250 single in a ninjette frame. Meanwhile Honda will be using the racing 250 and customer feedback to refine the CBR250.

Honda is a big, resourceful, respected, powerful company that needs to be taken seriously when they enter any market. Them bringing in the CBR250 will mean that Kawasaki can no longer just sit around basking in the glory of no 250 competition. I suggest watching this match-up closely instead of dismissing it as if it were just another Hyosung or a Chinese bike.

[Flashmonkey]

Not to mention the fact that if the CBR250 does well, the other manufacturer's are probably going to jump into the fray as well.

I'm not sure why any of you are looking at this like it's a bad thing, though. It's good for everyone.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Not to mention the fact that if the CBR250 does well, the other manufacturer's are probably going to jump into the fray as well.

I'm not sure why any of you are looking at this like it's a bad thing, though. It's good for everyone.

Never said it was bad, just emphasizing that they need to be taken seriously as MAJOR competition for the ninjette unlike Hyosung. Anyone that thinks the Honda isn't a threat to the ninjette's supremacy of the 250 market is only kidding themselves.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

kawasaki isn't scared, and honda isn't claiming any dominance, they just want to quietly snag some small market share. we'll see how that goes

Quietly snag some small market share? That doesn't sound like the philosophy of a company that started off making motorbikes and has been the largest motorbike manufacturer since what? The 1960s? Honda is clearly positioning this bike for global market share as evident by their slogan: "Sport Quarter for One World". Honda isn't trying to secretly sneak up on anyone here. The market is not just confined to North America where horsepower is the end all and be all. Go to places in Asia for example and you will see that 95% of the motorbike market are Hondas and 99% are less than 250cc. This CBR has something to offer for every market which is exactly what Honda wanted.

http://world.honda.com/CBR250R/touringlobe/index.html

[coondog]

Originally Posted by sombo

I take it neither of you have been paying attention to the other threads on this subject which have links to reviews and shootouts between the two?

I hate to tell you mullholland, but you're wrong. In testing it tops out just under the ninjette and has close to the same acceleration. It is actually shaping up to be a MAJOR threat to the ninjette's reign over the 250 market. I highly suggest you go look at those reviews because several of them vote the honda to be the winner in a few of those shootouts.

these "tests" and "shootouts" use a system of in this case limiting the ninjette somewhat to the hondas capabilities. i read it or it was on the computer means you're owned by Robert Murdoch or one of his clones. no offense but a parrallel twin vs. a single? get real bro. if-when yamaha comes out with their 250, i'll guarantee you it won't be a single, and you might see some performance on the level of the kawasaki then.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by sombo

Never said it was bad, just emphasizing that they need to be taken seriously as MAJOR competition for the ninjette unlike Hyosung. Anyone that thinks the Honda isn't a threat to the ninjette's supremacy of the 250 market is only kidding themselves.

I know you weren't....if anything I was taking your side

Competition like this will only create a better ninja 250 in the future.

[Pyro]

Here in South Africa, we used to have only had the Honda CBX-250 (CBF-250) and 250 Hyosung as a viable alternative to the Kawa, which we get in fuel injected form.

The Kawasaki sells for around R46000, the Honda is getting released at R40k.

The longer service intervals on the Honda adds to the appeal, hinting at lower running costs, and the lower down torque will be easier on commuting further aided by the lower weight.

So perhaps it's not as sporty as the Ninja, but it should make a better commuter with comparable performance at a lower price.

In the US Kawasaki could fairly easily upgrade to the FI model, but I'm eagerly awaiting their answer in our market.

[kkim]

Link to original page on YouTube.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58905

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71196

[CC Cowboy]

Those are "damn skippy machines".

[sombo]

Originally Posted by coondog

these "tests" and "shootouts" use a system of in this case limiting the ninjette somewhat to the hondas capabilities. i read it or it was on the computer means you're owned by Robert Murdoch or one of his clones. no offense but a parrallel twin vs. a single? get real bro. if-when yamaha comes out with their 250, i'll guarantee you it won't be a single, and you might see some performance on the level of the kawasaki then.

As I stated before, with the change in rules for racing requiring ALL 250 race bikes to be 4-stroke SINGLES, I highly doubt you'll see anymore P-2's in 250 street bikes. It only makes sense that if you are building a bike to compete that you translate it to the road like they do the bigger bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road you see a ninjette with a single. It may or may not happen.

Also you are forgetting the fact that the honda produces more torque then the ninjette allowing it better in city driving. I've read more then just one shootout and they don't limit them to the honda's capabilities. They run them through all the same tests as they have in other past 250 shootouts with many votes going to honda. So far it's the ONLY other 250 to EVER get a shootout victory over the ninjette in about the past 20 years. That alone should tell you to stop dismissing it as a non-contender.

Just because you don't like the bike does not mean that millions around the world will agree with you. Honda has been making singles for decades and knows how to make good ones. With the CBR250 being a first run and already throwing the ninjette a heavy challenge in it's debut (something no other 250 sport bike has been able to do in 20yrs), it will definitely get better in then next 1-3 years after getting solid feedback from customers around the world.

Racing rule changes, plus good starting design that's more practical and appealing on a WORLD market (not just the US) means that the CBR250 is going to help make changes to the 250 market worldwide. This is a good thing though. The other 2 will most likely follow Honda and take a wack at it with their own 250's. Will they be P-2's or singles, my vote will be on singles. You may not like the idea of single but from a manufacturers point of view it's the better option.

The reason they would consider it the better option is that they can use a lot of parts from their liter bikes to help create a starting block for the engine. This will help with reducing cost in both design and manufacturing. They would be able to use the same piston, valves, fuel injectors from their I-4 liter bikes to make a 250 single. Add in that they will already be making new race bikes with this configuration means they can just take that new racing 250 single and detune it for the street.

So watch the market for new 250 offerings but don't be surprised to see more singles instead of doubles.

For more on the moto3 rules:
http://www.motorcycle.com/news/moto3...sed-90125.html

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/164...cal_rules.html

[Mulholland]

sure as a world market bike... but I'm not in the "world market"... I am in the u.s. market... and great low speed commuting properties rock, until you live in a state like say texas, or any u.s. state where the infrastructure is what it is... I don't see a booming success against the ninja.

obviously environmental factors play a huge role in what types of bikes and vehicles in gemeral a region utilizes... to think my logic is flawed requires disregarding my market, which is silly. My opinion is from my region, others should be the same. And yes city riding only arterial roads in small areas does cater to the hondas full house hand when it comes to beginner/low speed commuter duties, but as a beginner in my market, I am forced to weigh the ninjas strong points more heavily. My arterial roads in my region are 6 lanes with a median and largely disregarded 45mph speed limits, and highways/toll roads with 70/80mph speeds... Texas has some of the highest limits fyi.

Cool to know about the 250cc engine regulations mandating singles though, that seems strange to me, but cool info anyways. Try not to discount peoples opinions based on their environment just because you have a "bigger picture" point of view though... I'll be buying based on my needs, not the supposed majority of the world market.

[Boom King]

I never said anywhere in my post to discount people's opinions. Just offering a rebuttal to your point regarding Honda's approach to market share. It's a forum here and all we're doing is generating a discussion. My points are not to discount any of your personal thoughts of why you think the Ninja is better or why you prefer it over the Honda. If you read my post, that's clearly not my intent or even a point of focus. Those are your personal opinions of which you are freely entitled to express on this fine forum.

Ultimately, everyone buys a bike to suit their own needs and not anyone else's. I'll never attack a person for buying the bike that they feel comfortable with. If you feel that the Ninja fits your needs best, then I wish you the best with your purchase. It's a great bike and you'll be happy with it. Again, I'm just saying that I don't agree with your point that Honda is trying to quietly gain small market share. Nothing in my post about discounting anyone's personal preference towards one bike based on their personal needs and then calling it flawed logic.

[sombo]

I'm not trying to win you over to the Honda and say it's a better bike for your needs then the ninjette. I'm just trying to show you that it IS a competitor to the ninjette for market share. You stated that it was no competitor, as if to say it would do nothing to the 250 market that is currently ruled by the ninjette. You don't have to buy or even like the Honda, but you should recognize it as the first true competitor to the ninjette for the 250 world market share. Unlike all the other 250's that have come out, people (including in the USA) are putting in plenty of pre-orders for the Honda. Many dealerships are being limited in how many they get for the first run because it's already that popular before it's even officially released.

I'm just saying to not discount it and keep an eye on it, cause it's making some pretty big waves already and bound to make more. It is going to be a very popular bike just like the ninjette which will make Kawasaki step up their game (we hope) to try and keep that edge.

[CZroe]

If Kawi cared about the racing market with the EX250, they would not have left it the same from 1988 through 2007. They made the ZX250 for that market just like Honda made the CBR250RR. I doubt the racing rules are going to affect the current EX250 because, unlike the ZX-series, they are designed for the street in the first place.

[LoneRonin]

the Honda is ugly plain and simple...I don't see anyone under 25 preferring it over the Ninja. If it wasn't a VFR wannabe branded a CBR, and an update of the real CBR250rr of the 90's it would blow the Kawi outta the sky.

[whiteboy]

everything iv seen and herd im not concerned i still favor the ninja but i do like that honda is a major competetor now and it will get kawi in high gear and more upgrades and bells and whistle for the ninja will be great. kawi will always try to stay on top they cant lose us

[bdavison]

Got a chance to go sit on one this past weekend. They have both the red/white one and a black one here. They wouldnt let us take it out for a spin...but I can tell you this. The online pics dont do it justice. Its pretty sharp looking.

Overall, taller riders might like it. It definitely fits my 6'3" body better than the ninja. My knees werent riding the edges of the tank, legs fit perfectly into it.

Its skinny as a string bean though. Not a whole lot of meat on it...kinda anorexic looking. It definately needs lowering links. Its so dang tall, shorties might have a problem. It would look a lot better dropped too. The seat is pretty comfortable. Its skinny too, but level, unlike the sloped ninja seat. Felt kinda like a slightly wide dirtbike seat.

Suspension felt kinda soft from what I could tell without riding it. Forgot to check if its adjustable.

Full tuck stuck you right in behind the windscreen, but it still has that "hands high, elbow in thighs" feeling like the ninja. The tank is virtually non-existant, its much smaller than the ninja, and is so low on the top, dont plan on laying on it.

Im betting with a rear sprocket change, it would be a beginning stunters dream. Flat tank, Flat seat, torquey, skinny, and light.

Im trying to get one of my buddies to buy one, so we can find out what it will actually do head to head against the ninja. Most of the guys that Ive talked to that have ridden one, say its got better acceleration than the ninja, but the ninja has more top end speed.

I wont be buying one....im holding out with my ninja 250r....until Yamaha releases a R2, that might convince me to buy if they do it right. Man...if yamaha drops a 450cc in the R6 frame like some rumors going around...OMG...kawi and honda are gonna crap bricks.

[whiteboy]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Got a chance to go sit on one this past weekend. They have both the red/white one and a black one here. They wouldnt let us take it out for a spin...but I can tell you this. The online pics dont do it justice. Its pretty sharp looking.

Overall, taller riders might like it. It definitely fits my 6'3" body better than the ninja. My knees werent riding the edges of the tank, legs fit perfectly into it.

Its skinny as a string bean though. Not a whole lot of meat on it...kinda anorexic looking. It definately needs lowering links. Its so dang tall, shorties might have a problem. It would look a lot better dropped too. The seat is pretty comfortable. Its skinny too, but level, unlike the sloped ninja seat. Felt kinda like a slightly wide dirtbike seat.

Suspension felt kinda soft from what I could tell without riding it. Forgot to check if its adjustable.

Full tuck stuck you right in behind the windscreen, but it still has that "hands high, elbow in thighs" feeling like the ninja. The tank is virtually non-existant, its much smaller than the ninja, and is so low on the top, dont plan on laying on it.

Im betting with a rear sprocket change, it would be a beginning stunters dream. Flat tank, Flat seat, torquey, skinny, and light.

Im trying to get one of my buddies to buy one, so we can find out what it will actually do head to head against the ninja. Most of the guys that Ive talked to that have ridden one, say its got better acceleration than the ninja, but the ninja has more top end speed.

I wont be buying one....im holding out with my ninja 250r....until Yamaha releases a R2, that might convince me to buy if they do it right. Man...if yamaha drops a 350cc in the R6 frame like some rumors going around...OMG...kawi and honda are gonna crap bricks.

now if that was to ha[[en the yea kawi and honda will be out of buisness on the 250 i originaly wated a r6 to start on but was convinced to the 250 but yes if i had a choice between a r3 or the ninja 250...and the r3 would look like its bigger sisters and run great yea hand down sry ninja but r2ish r3 thing would get my money

[bdavison]

Oh, to clarify.
Ive heard two people overseas today saying there are rumors floating around that Yamaha might be sticking a 450cc engine into a revamped r6 sportbike soon.
From what Ive heard its a four-stroke liquid cooled 449cc fuel injected motor, which makes sense because they have a similar motor already in their 4 wheeler.

Details Ive gotten are sketchy....Im talking with some folks from the factory online right now, some are saying maybe 350, maybe 450. Someone spotted new tools being delivered which usually means new bike, since the tools are on assembly line for one bike only.

I could tell more if I could read this chicken scratch they call writing, Im feeding it into google translate....

[whiteboy]

sounds amazing but by that time comes around, and i just bought my ninja never even had a chance or the class to ride it yet, will be a while since its just words floating around. plus by that time comes and i feel the need to upgrade in cc id probly go with the 600 or higher...maybe not the r1 cause im a bit sidish of it atm but 600 at the least. sounds great though would like to see that happen.

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Oh, to clarify.
Ive heard two people overseas today saying there are rumors floating around that Yamaha might be sticking a 450cc engine into a revamped r6 sportbike soon.
From what Ive heard its a four-stroke liquid cooled 449cc fuel injected motor, which makes sense because they have a similar motor already in their 4 wheeler.

Details Ive gotten are sketchy....Im talking with some folks from the factory online right now, some are saying maybe 350, maybe 450. Someone spotted new tools being delivered which usually means new bike, since the tools are on assembly line for one bike only.

I could tell more if I could read this chicken scratch they call writing, Im feeding it into google translate....

Oh wow, please be true! FZR450!?! Keep us updated.

[bdavison]

Im thinking its a pretty good chance that yamaha is working on something. A new 250,350,or 450 would make sense given that nearly every other manufacturer is jumping on the bandwagon to finally give us what we want.

We've got Kawasaki with the Ninja 250R and the Ninja 400R
Honda's got the CBR250
There are rumors about Ducati releasing a 250, but dont know how thats going to work.
Aprilla is building a 125 for the states, but they still havent figured out that it needs to be street legal.

It only makes sense that yamaha would do the same, and in typical epic fashion. Also seeing that they lost Valentino...Im guessing they need a new bike to pick up sales.

Also, they have plenty of 350, and 450 engines from the Raptor, and other 4 wheelers that could be adapted to street use. If its the 350, the price should be comparable with the current 250 crowd, but its air-cooled, so we will see how that works out. If its the 450, its gonna be awesome, but Im wondering if the price will be right.

Honestly, if they release a 450 R4 or whatever they call it. Id throw down the bones regardless of cost to put one in my hanger.