June 20th, 2013, 11:18 AM | #1 |
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Recently Rebuilt - Engine Cranks but won't start
2010 model.
The whole motor was apart, along with the carbs, and electrical. The issue is that the bike doesn't catch, ie.. It will crank and crank, but won't run. 1) The starter motor is functional, I can hear it. 2) The battery is full, otherwise the starter motor wouldn't run. 3) There is proper spark in both plugs. 4) I can feel air coming out of the exhaust, tho I still have to do a proper compression test. But, fresh piston rings and gaskets were installed. The valves were also adjusted. 5) The fuel is reaching the float bowls. I posted this on another forum and was pointed to maybe a fuel delivery problem. I'm going to test this by spraying some starter fluid in the air box. Other causes could be clogged jets... they were sitting out in a plastic bag for a while before I put them on the bike. But, chances of both jets being clogged at the same time are low. I also could have gotten the carb hoses mixed up. Any other ideas are welcome. |
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June 20th, 2013, 01:34 PM | #2 |
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you need air, fuel , compression, and spark to make an engine run, you have air and spark, now you need to determine compression and fuel. never guess with carbs, when in doubt, tear them apart and put them back together properly. gonna need more detail/pics to give you a better answer.
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June 20th, 2013, 01:36 PM | #3 |
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I attempted to crank with a few squirts of starter fluid in the airbox. Nothing.
So, the next step is testing the compression. |
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June 20th, 2013, 02:19 PM | #5 |
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wut?
I aligned the timing marks with the cam sprocket marks and all that jazz pretty well. I should double check. |
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June 20th, 2013, 02:59 PM | #7 |
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How would I figure that out? The wires from the kill switch and IC igniter are going to the the appropriate coils and tabs on coils.
Also, I just ran a compression test with wide open throttle on both cylinders. Left cylinder reads 135 PSI and right reads 145 PSI. Left is outside the usability range. And right is well on the lower end. |
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June 20th, 2013, 03:53 PM | #8 |
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even if the pistons were leaking pretty bad, with any kinda of compression it should spark up and fire some hot gas out the exhaust if you had fuel and spark at the right time.
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June 20th, 2013, 07:27 PM | #9 |
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So, you're saying it's the ignition timing?
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June 20th, 2013, 07:47 PM | #10 | |
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June 20th, 2013, 07:56 PM | #11 |
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It was not clear from your other thread whether you followed this advice or not:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...08&postcount=4 If the timing is correct, the next thing to check is the gap in the sensor coil respect to the alternator. Weak sparks can appear at atmospheric pressure, but simply not happening at 9 or 10 times that pressure at the end of the compression stroke. The low compression values are normal for new rings, IMHO; they will improve much after break-in.
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June 20th, 2013, 08:09 PM | #12 | |
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I guess that means draining the coolant and opening up the stator cover. |
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June 20th, 2013, 08:10 PM | #13 |
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FYI the spark fires on both upward strokes. Spark timing cannot be 180 off. There is a wasted spark.
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June 20th, 2013, 08:23 PM | #14 | |
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Stupid question: did you enable the sparks and open the throttles all the way while spraying the intakes?
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June 20th, 2013, 09:12 PM | #15 |
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Look at this video that explains how a crank shaft sensor works. Skip to the 1:37 mark
1) Would I still be getting a spark if the north and south poles on the magnet were switched? 2) If I unhook the sensor from the harness and hook up a meter to it, should I be getting a fluctuating reading for volts and ohms? 3) Would #2 happen if the poles were reversed? |
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June 20th, 2013, 09:17 PM | #16 |
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June 21st, 2013, 05:47 AM | #17 |
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Take a look at these articles: http://www.dansmc.com/cdiignition.htm http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm http://www.dansmc.com/leakdown.htm But before you go into the dark path of electricity, insist on the spray into the naked (no filter) inlet (WOT) first. Also verify that the level that the fuel reaches inside the bowls is as specified in the manual.
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June 21st, 2013, 05:57 AM | #18 |
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also keep your face away from carb area when spraying......
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June 21st, 2013, 12:24 PM | #19 |
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I did the starter fluid test again and it ran!!! And then died after a few seconds.
It'd been so long since I heard my bike run, even for a little bit. Well over a year. So, I'm guess the problem is fuel delivery and the carbs need to come off...??? |
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June 21st, 2013, 01:06 PM | #20 |
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Sounds like a fuel issue. It might not be no fuel but the amount.
What is your jetting? |
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June 21st, 2013, 01:14 PM | #21 |
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Stock. With the little screws at the bottom of the carbs turned out twice from all the way inside. Carbs coming off tomorrow anyways.
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June 21st, 2013, 03:17 PM | #22 |
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is your gas tank turned on?
is fuel making it into the carbs? is there a vacuum leak?
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June 21st, 2013, 03:19 PM | #23 |
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If you didnt take your carbs out yet, it might be good to check the fuel height inside the bowls
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June 21st, 2013, 04:51 PM | #24 |
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June 21st, 2013, 05:03 PM | #25 |
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June 22nd, 2013, 04:01 PM | #26 |
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Pulled the carbs out. Cleaned and blew every single hole. Changed four pair of gloves to avoid contamination. Put it back together and installed it. Nothing changed, at all.
Again, tried the starter fluid in the airbox and it ran and shut down again. So, what's next? I'm thinking it's the coils. I'm getting a spark, but it's not sufficient to ignite gasoline (with it's higher ignition temp). Also, FYI, I am using 18 AWG wires running to the coils. Could this be causing not enough current reaching the coils and a spark too weak to ignite gas? |
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June 22nd, 2013, 04:22 PM | #27 |
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June 22nd, 2013, 05:01 PM | #28 |
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so, you have gas in the carbs, and the level is right; you cleaned out the orifices, and the petcock is on prime; the spark and cam timing are right because it fires on starting fluid...
Try some different gas in the tank. If the bike ran before the rebuild on your stock coils, they probably didn't go bad while sitting... your gas probably did. This is not unusual. Good luck! -Sean |
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June 22nd, 2013, 05:10 PM | #29 |
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The gas is new. But, it might be bad because of where I bought it from. It seems to lack that real strong gasoline-y smell.
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June 22nd, 2013, 05:21 PM | #30 |
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vaccum hoses correct?
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June 22nd, 2013, 07:11 PM | #31 |
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Did you fully inspect the carbs and do a thorough cleaning?
remove all the jets and clean out the orifices? Were you able to see through the holes in the jets? Stick some strands of copper speaker wire into the starter jets and see if any crud comes out. As far as I know, you can't remove the starter jets. The holes are very tiny so if they're clogged you would have trouble starting it. Were the idle mixture screws tampered with? Stock unmolested carbs should have a the screws covered up. Is your throttle plates closed and not stuck open?
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:00 PM | #32 |
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:02 PM | #33 | |
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:02 PM | #34 |
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I have also replaced the old gas with some fresh from a different station. Still no go.
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:07 PM | #35 | |
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:10 PM | #36 |
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:35 PM | #37 |
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June 23rd, 2013, 12:52 PM | #38 |
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so does it start now?
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June 23rd, 2013, 01:08 PM | #39 |
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Yes. Funny how half a turn was the difference between it running and not. And between me almost parting it out to buy something else.
Thank you, all. |
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June 23rd, 2013, 01:53 PM | #40 |
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