300 racing?

[alex.s]

so the new ninja 300 kinda throws a wrench in the current 250 class. from the sounds of it, you will no longer be able to buy a new 250 without importing it which would mean eventually there wont be any to race (...eventually.)
the 300 is obviously out of range of competition with the current 250 as well as the honda and i'm guessing stripped to race weight would be more than fast enough to take care of the aprilia rs125 on any course larger than a kart track.

do you see race orgs switching to a 300cc 4stroke class? if they do, do you think honda will follow? what about a stock 300cc 4 stroke with formula rules 250 4 strokes?

[KazMan]

Originally Posted by alex.s

so the new ninja 300 kinda throws a wrench in the current 250 class. from the sounds of it, you will no longer be able to buy a new 250 without importing it which would mean eventually there wont be any to race (...eventually.)
the 300 is obviously out of range of competition with the current 250 as well as the honda and i'm guessing stripped to race weight would be more than fast enough to take care of the aprilia rs125 on any course larger than a kart track.

do you see race orgs switching to a 300cc 4stroke class? if they do, do you think honda will follow? what about a stock 300cc 4 stroke with formula rules 250 4 strokes?

I cannot see a race org changing and leaving a bunch of 250 riders uncompetitive. I think it would depend on the organization and the membership within the 250 class making suggestions.

But I also see the 300 being competitive in the 500 twins classes.

[alex.s]

a shift would clearly take many years to happen but eventually 250s are going to start getting rarer if kawi stops producing them. sure there are probably millions out there right now but they wont be around forever

[RaceBikeRentals]

I can't imagine they would be difficult to find for the next 15 years at least. Tons were made. I can't see any reason to do anything with the 250 classes.... if anything, this just makes racing the class even more affordable, as used 300s entering the supply should push used 250s downward in price.

[Panda]

I almost feel the 300 is a response to the CBR250 inasmuch as a multimillion dollar company can respond in a season to new competition.

It almost feels that if Kawasaki can make a 250 that puts out similar power to the 300 we'll see a drop in displacement. It's more cost effective to have a single low cc line and if they are keeping the 250 I feel like a homogenization of both lines in the next 3-5 years seems to make sense.

[cuong-nutz]

Like said, it'll be awhile before the 250 class gets displaced. Too many of them currently and too few and too new of The 300 currently.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Like said, it'll be awhile before the 250 class gets displaced. Too many of them currently and too few and too new of The 300 currently.

and as far as Honda are concerned, aren't they currently working on a 500? Or so rumor has it...

[EsrTek]

think Honda doing a CBR 400... Im hoping this lil war between brands ends up giving us a mini SS w/o having to go to a 600 at minimum.

[NJ Ninjette]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

think Honda doing a CBR 400... Im hoping this lil war between brands ends up giving us a mini SS w/o having to go to a 600 at minimum.

I agree a proper 400 cc is probably the "holy grail" size for most people

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

think Honda doing a CBR 400... Im hoping this lil war between brands ends up giving us a mini SS w/o having to go to a 600 at minimum.

Yeah, but what the hell are Yamaha and Suzuki doing while all this is happening? If a Yamaha 250/400 twin is launched, I'll ditch my ninja in a heartbeat...



As long as I can afford it...

[smokinsingle]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

and as far as Honda are concerned, aren't they currently working on a 500? Or so rumor has it...

Yup!
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ked/21407.html

[smokinsingle]

There is guys already pushing my club to allow the 300 to race the 250 class. I think it sucks. I'd have to dump a bunch more money into my motor to make it competitve.

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

There is guys already pushing my club to allow the 300 to race the 250 class. I think it sucks. I'd have to dump a bunch more money into my motor to make it competitve.

No way it would be fair unless they can race with the 250s but be considered their own with other 300s in the same class. That way the 250 grid is full and put up a more interesting race amongst them.

[smak]

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

There is guys already pushing my club to allow the 300 to race the 250 class. I think it sucks. I'd have to dump a bunch more money into my motor to make it competitve.

The way that thing motored by me down the front straight off the start I figured you already had!

[smokinsingle]

Originally Posted by smak

The way that thing motored by me down the front straight off the start I figured you already had!

HA! No sir...Worked a bunch on starts, think I need a clutch now.

[sharky nrk]

I have caught some wind of doing a stepped class structure, superstock like rules for the 300 with supersport/superbike rules for he 250. To me this makes the most sense as long as the rules can keep the bikes competetive. There are no other 300s to make its own class without it being a single bike class.

[smokinsingle]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I have caught some wind of doing a stepped class structure, superstock like rules for the 300 with supersport/superbike rules for he 250. To me this makes the most sense as long as the rules can keep the bikes competetive. There are no other 300s to make its own class without it being a single bike class.

Yeah it makes sence if you've got money laying around to pile in to a 250. That then negates the entire point to a "spec class" which is what most forms of racing these bikes is.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

Yeah it makes sence if you've got money laying around to pile in to a 250. That then negates the entire point to a "spec class" which is what most forms of racing these bikes is.

Not the way I see it, I mean take a 300 and only allow race prep type parts (fairings, rearsets, clip ons, etc) and place it against the normal crop of 250s with pods/fe/jet and the power part of the equation may not look much different. Sure the 300 will make it in a different part of the powerband but outright grunt shouldn't be too far off. You don't sink much more money into the 250s than is already being done. Besides you will always have the guys willing to spend the $$$ to eek everything out of a spec class anyways.

edit: re-reading the previous post that doesn't really describe "superbike/supersport" class rules so take that out of the equation and just think stepped class with a greater modification edge going to the 250s.

[Nemesis]

Alex, you need to do less talking and moar racing!

This thread is silly. =P

[Jiggles]

^ makes sense to me

[smokinsingle]

A piped and poded 250 wil make what 15-20% more power? The 300 is claiming 50% more power stock.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

A piped and poded 250 wil make what 15-20% more power? The 300 is claiming 50% more power stock.

No its not....

50% more than a honda 250 yes

[Monkeytofu]

Are electronically limited bikes allowed into the 250 class? I think in the UK if you buy a super sport before a certain you point you have to buy it locked/limited to function like a smaller bike.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Alex, you need to do less talking and moar racing!

This thread is silly. =P

IKR?! so mad that i missed last round. i heard about the new record... how far in your ass did you have to dig for that one?! must have been seriously deep cause you destroyed the previous record

[CZroe]

I'll just say this: The ZX6R once raced in the 600 class with a 636cc motor and will supposedly race again as Kawi reintroduced it this year and plans to lobby the orgs. The 250 class is even less defined and didn't exist here a few years ago. It will simply be an "under 300" class. It's not like it wasn't being dominated by Kawi anyway. It their way of keeping the title "Ninja" in the "Ninja cup."

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I'll just say this: The ZX6R once raced in the 600 class with a 636cc motor

No, it didn't. Kawi released a 599cc version called the ZX-6RR that raced in the 600 classes. Some club racing may have let the 636's play, but in AFM they had to race in the 750 class.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

No, it didn't. Kawi released a 599cc version called the ZX-6RR that raced in the 600 classes. Some club racing may have let the 636's play, but in AFM they had to race in the 750 class.

Yeah. Some clubs allowed it, some didn't. They made a 600cc version for the picky orgs and eventually transitioned to it as their mass-market model in 2008 (I think that's the right year). It wasn't that long ago. Obviously the situation with the 300 is very close. Similar barriers exist for street use. They still make a 250 for markets with limits or which have yet to update their laws like the new EU and AUS standards, so they can do similar for racing. The main difference is that the displacement class for the 250 was defined by the 250, so I expect that it will now be defined by the 300 instead. I'm not speaking in worldwide terms, where 250 racing has always existed in some markets. I'm just saying that this seems to be how it will be here.

Another similar example: Erik Buell successfully lobbied to allow the 1125R in literbike classes.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Yeah. Some clubs allowed it, some didn't. They made a 600cc version for the picky orgs and eventually transitioned to it as their mass-market model in 2008 (I think that's the right year).

The picky orgs were basically everybody, and all professional racing. The 636 was the street model, and the 600 was the racing model.

Originally Posted by CZroe

Another similar example: Erik Buell successfully lobbied to allow the 1125R in literbike classes.

That's not a similar example, it's the opposite. Erik did get the 1125RR into the Daytona Sportbike class. The 636 never made it into any professional 600cc class racing.

If Kawi does release a 600cc version, there won't be an issue. If they plan to race the 636 in WSS, or any of the AMA classes, I hope that they've already been speaking to those orgs for quite awhile about such a possibility, as the rules as written wouldn't allow for them.

[alex.s]

Smaller clubs list the middleweight class to include 636. People are currently trying to get the 300 in with 250s at cvma. I think it's about as good an idea as having 250s race rs125s.