Vermont Title Loophole?

Finesse · September 11th, 2017, 10:43 AM

I might be going to look at a 1978 KL250 with no title. Apparently, you can use Vermont as a way to get a title (I want the bike titled in Maryland but it currently has none and don't know who the last legal owner is).

Vermont does not issue titles for vehicles that are 15 years old or older; they also do not issue titles for motorcycles under 300cc. So, the proof of ownership for those vehicles is registration, which you can apparently get by mailing them a bill of sale, registration application, and $48 fee. They will then mail you back your registration and license plate for one year, even if you don't actually live in Vermont. (?!!?!)

Has anyone done this? I have a 1978 Vespa Bravo that I might try to do this with, just to see if it works...

Any other ways to get a legal title for a bike like this?

Triple Jim · September 11th, 2017, 11:07 AM

The Vermont method seems to work for many folks. In NC there's a procedure to get a title for an untitled vehicle that mainly requires getting a title bond for 1-1/2 times the value of the vehicle, and cost you $100 to buy from a bond company. I followed it for a motorcycle that was given to me, and it was relatively simple and easy. The bond covers the value in case the owner shows up and proves it's his, not yours. You should check with the MD MVA to see what the official procedure is. It may be easier than going the VT route, but you always have that to fall back on if you need to.

Finesse · September 11th, 2017, 11:12 AM

Thanks. I might look up NC as well. The advantage of this bike is it's a 1978. Pre-1981 vins are not 17 digits and are apparently not really identifiable when you search history. Like even if it was reported stolen at some point, there's no database of pre-1981 vins to search. I'm learning a lot today!

Maryland sucks, they are super strict. I have had problems with them before and it's always a HUGE hassle. I go to the tag and title places and pay $50 extra just to not have to deal with anyone who works for the MVA.

Triple Jim · September 11th, 2017, 11:45 AM

From what I've heard, if you decide MD is not the place to get the title(s), then VT is probably the way to go. Here's the procedure a friend wrote up for going the VT route:

http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/in...?topic=10002.0

If any NC resident wants to see how how to do it here, I'll be glad to point you toward my writeup.

Finesse · September 11th, 2017, 12:13 PM

^thanks, that is helpful.

I'm not clear on notarization - does the seller have to be present at the notary? What if there isn't one open/nearby at the time of the sale?

Triple Jim · September 11th, 2017, 01:38 PM

In the states I'm familiar with, the seller is the only one who has to be present when he signs the title. The notary verifies his identity to make it difficult for someone who steals the title to get one in his name, for example. The seller can go to a notary, normally at his bank, and sign the title. Then if you buy the bike, he just hands the signed title to you.

I'm selling a motorcycle now, and signed the title in front of a notary at my bank weeks ago, so if someone calls Sunday morning and wants to look at it, there's nothing in the way of making the sale that day. I do need to be extra careful to keep the signed title in a safe place, since now that I signed it, anyone finding it can go to the DMV and get one in his name.

Interestingly, Maryland doesn't require Maryland titles to be notarized. I don't know about out of state titles from states that do require notarization though.

Finesse · September 11th, 2017, 01:40 PM

^Maryland only needs New York titles to be notarized. PA needs all titles to be notarized.

In this case there is no title so there's nothing to notarize except a bill of sale. But Vermont's bill of sale has nowhere to be notarized! I've talked to a few people now who did this and they didn't get anything notarized.

September 11th, 2017, 10:43 AM	#1
Finesse ran when parked Name: Katie Location: DC/MD Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot. MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14	Vermont Title Loophole? I might be going to look at a 1978 KL250 with no title. Apparently, you can use Vermont as a way to get a title (I want the bike titled in Maryland but it currently has none and don't know who the last legal owner is). Vermont does not issue titles for vehicles that are 15 years old or older; they also do not issue titles for motorcycles under 300cc. So, the proof of ownership for those vehicles is registration, which you can apparently get by mailing them a bill of sale, registration application, and $48 fee. They will then mail you back your registration and license plate for one year, even if you don't actually live in Vermont. (?!!?!) Has anyone done this? I have a 1978 Vespa Bravo that I might try to do this with, just to see if it works... Any other ways to get a legal title for a bike like this?

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September 11th, 2017, 11:07 AM	#2
Triple Jim Guy Who Enjoys Riding Name: Jim Location: North Carolina Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16	The Vermont method seems to work for many folks. In NC there's a procedure to get a title for an untitled vehicle that mainly requires getting a title bond for 1-1/2 times the value of the vehicle, and cost you $100 to buy from a bond company. I followed it for a motorcycle that was given to me, and it was relatively simple and easy. The bond covers the value in case the owner shows up and proves it's his, not yours. You should check with the MD MVA to see what the official procedure is. It may be easier than going the VT route, but you always have that to fall back on if you need to.

September 11th, 2017, 11:12 AM	#3
Finesse ran when parked Name: Katie Location: DC/MD Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot. MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14	Thanks. I might look up NC as well. The advantage of this bike is it's a 1978. Pre-1981 vins are not 17 digits and are apparently not really identifiable when you search history. Like even if it was reported stolen at some point, there's no database of pre-1981 vins to search. I'm learning a lot today! Maryland sucks, they are super strict. I have had problems with them before and it's always a HUGE hassle. I go to the tag and title places and pay $50 extra just to not have to deal with anyone who works for the MVA.

September 11th, 2017, 11:45 AM	#4
Triple Jim Guy Who Enjoys Riding Name: Jim Location: North Carolina Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16	From what I've heard, if you decide MD is not the place to get the title(s), then VT is probably the way to go. Here's the procedure a friend wrote up for going the VT route: http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/in...?topic=10002.0 If any NC resident wants to see how how to do it here, I'll be glad to point you toward my writeup.

September 11th, 2017, 12:13 PM	#5
Finesse ran when parked Name: Katie Location: DC/MD Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot. MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14	^thanks, that is helpful. I'm not clear on notarization - does the seller have to be present at the notary? What if there isn't one open/nearby at the time of the sale?

September 11th, 2017, 01:38 PM	#6
Triple Jim Guy Who Enjoys Riding Name: Jim Location: North Carolina Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16	In the states I'm familiar with, the seller is the only one who has to be present when he signs the title. The notary verifies his identity to make it difficult for someone who steals the title to get one in his name, for example. The seller can go to a notary, normally at his bank, and sign the title. Then if you buy the bike, he just hands the signed title to you. I'm selling a motorcycle now, and signed the title in front of a notary at my bank weeks ago, so if someone calls Sunday morning and wants to look at it, there's nothing in the way of making the sale that day. I do need to be extra careful to keep the signed title in a safe place, since now that I signed it, anyone finding it can go to the DMV and get one in his name. Interestingly, Maryland doesn't require Maryland titles to be notarized. I don't know about out of state titles from states that do require notarization though.

September 11th, 2017, 01:40 PM	#7
Finesse ran when parked Name: Katie Location: DC/MD Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot. MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14	^Maryland only needs New York titles to be notarized. PA needs all titles to be notarized. In this case there is no title so there's nothing to notarize except a bill of sale. But Vermont's bill of sale has nowhere to be notarized! I've talked to a few people now who did this and they didn't get anything notarized.