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Old October 9th, 2019, 04:48 PM   #1
RiderDonnie
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Bike keeps dying doesnít stay charged

I took my battery to autozone and they tested it and my battery is good but the charge was at 0%, so I let them charge it. After about trying to start it 4-5 times or so the battery will almost die and then doesnít let me start it at all. Which makes the charge then (0%) . What charges the battery? The regulator / rectifier? That could need replaced or the whole battery itself.. it is a 2005 and Iím only 16 i have been looking around and watching lots of videos I just need some more help from people who know what theyíre talking about
Thanks guys
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Old October 9th, 2019, 04:50 PM   #2
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It’s like it will start right up but doesn’t let you keep starting it and then you drain the charge on the battery.. and doesn’t let me start it at all. I just took the battery to autozone I’ll be picking it back up tonight and I’ll let you guys know what happens from there
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:30 PM   #3
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Bike needs to run above 4000rpms for about 15-minutes to charge battery back up after single start.

1. Measure voltage at battery after starting. Leave bike running. Then measure voltage every 2-minutes after that for about 10-minutes. What is trend in measurements?

2. Measure AC voltage of yellow pairs of wires coming out if stator. What is this AC voltage at idle? What is AC voltage at 4000rpms?

These numbers will tell you where problem is.

Also get battery charger.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:24 PM   #4
RiderDonnie
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I got the battery and took it home and tried it and it isn’t starting up at all
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:28 PM   #5
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[QUOTE=DannoXYZ;1257662]Bike needs to run above 4000rpms for about 15-minutes to charge battery back up after single start.

1. Measure voltage at battery after starting. Leave bike running. Then measure voltage every 2-minutes after that for about 10-minutes. What is trend in measurements?

2. Measure AC voltage of yellow pairs of wires coming out if stator. What is this AC voltage at idle? What is AC voltage at 4000rpms?

These numbers will tell you where problem is.



It will turn over and turn over and turn over but wonít actually start. I did have it started one time earlier today though. I recently cleaned the carb out and put it all back together and I think whatever charges my battery is going out and needs replaced also. But yeah I canít get it to start without the battery dying on me now.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 09:29 PM   #6
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If your bike doesn't run, it cannot recharge battery.
It's running engine that spins alternator that charges battery.
And it needs to run for 15-minutes straight to charge battery back up to state before starting.

Please answer this question: "Can your bike run for 15-minutes?"
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Old October 9th, 2019, 11:11 PM   #7
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In addition to battery charger, you need to get multimeter for testing and troubleshooting. You CANNOT run battery for more than 2-3 seconds at time. Total 30-seconds MAXIMUM. Otherwise you'll drain it beyond 50% and this will destroy battery. Seems you've discharged it to 0% multiple times already, so that battery is most likely bad and you'll need to buy new battery.

Any time you're having difficulty starting bike beyond 30-seconds, use jumper-cables from car's battery (with car OFF). Otherwise you'll destroy VRM - voltage regulator.

Multimeter will let you test and troubleshoot parts on bike to determine if they're good or bad, based upon numbers you measure. Sure you can randomly start replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly working parts, but nothing will change, your bike will still not start and your battery can't get recharged unless bike is running for 15-minutes or more.

If you don't want to test and measure and learn to troubleshoot, but would rather just randomly replace parts. Then just sell bike and buy one that's working. Will end up costing you A LOT less and waste A LOT less time.

There's nothing wrong with parts on your bike. Just need to test and measure and re-adjust things. But you can't determine what needs adjustments until you measure and come up with some numbers. Get multimeter and do those tests outlined above. And this one as well:

1. measure voltage of battery at rest before cranking.
2. measure voltage of battery when cranking.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 11:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
If your bike doesn't run, it cannot recharge battery.
It's running engine that spins alternator that charges battery.
And it needs to run for 15-minutes straight to charge battery back up to state before starting.

Please answer this question: "Can your bike run for 15-minutes?"


No my bike can not run for 15 minutes I canít get it started now.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 11:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
In addition to battery charger, you need to get multimeter for testing and troubleshooting. You CANNOT run battery for more than 2-3 seconds at time. Total 30-seconds MAXIMUM. Otherwise you'll drain it beyond 50% and this will destroy battery. Seems you've discharged it to 0% multiple times already, so that battery is most likely bad and you'll need to buy new battery.

Any time you're having difficulty starting bike beyond 30-seconds, use jumper-cables from car's battery (with car OFF). Otherwise you'll destroy VRM - voltage regulator.

Multimeter will let you test and troubleshoot parts on bike to determine if they're good or bad, based upon numbers you measure. Sure you can randomly start replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly working parts, but nothing will change, your bike will still not start and your battery can't get recharged unless bike is running for 15-minutes or more.

If you don't want to test and measure and learn to troubleshoot, but would rather just randomly replace parts. Then just sell bike and buy one that's working. Will end up costing you A LOT less and waste A LOT less time.

There's nothing wrong with parts on your bike. Just need to test and measure and re-adjust things. But you can't determine what needs adjustments until you measure and come up with some numbers. Get multimeter and do those tests outlined above. And this one as well:

1. measure voltage of battery at rest before cranking.
2. measure voltage of battery when cranking.

Yes then, I have discharged it to 0% multiple times. I did not know any of that. And when I did jump it I did use a car but the car was on.
I will go out and buy a multimeter I want to learn how to troubleshoot things about my bike and for the future. I appreciate your help! So tomorrow morning should I try jumping it with the car off and cables hooked up? I havenít tried jumping it for a couple weeks
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Old October 10th, 2019, 03:08 AM   #10
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Yes, get multimeter AND battery charger linked above. Then keep it continually connected to battery. Might be able to save that battery if you keep it topped off for a week.

Here’s thing with mechanical & electrical systems. They tend to be binary in behavior. They work or they don’t, that’s it. Like headlight is on or it’s off, nothing in between. Flipping light-switch on and off 10,000 times will still never turn on a burnt-out bulb. Either you have enough gas in tank to run, or you don’t. Either bike is going to start with choke in 5-sec. or it won’t. If it doesn’t, somethjng’s wrong and it’s not going to start no matter how long you crank it. You have to stop beating your head against wall (or dead horse).

STOP doing what doesn’t work after 2nd or 3rd attempt and try something else. That something else is testing, measuring systems to see what’s wrong and fixing it. The faster you change course, the faster you’ll get it fixed and working properly. So... if it doesn’t start on 2nd attempt, test:

- how much petrol do you have in tank?
- how old is petrol?
- is there internal filter in fuel line?
- is filter clean or clogged?
- is your petcock getting vacuum from carbs?
- does your petcock actually flow petrol when vacuum applied?
- how many volts at battery when cranking?
- how many volts at ignition coils when cranking?
- do you get spark jumping across plugs when cranking?
- carbs been professionally refurbed & restored to factory-fresh condition with new innards?

These are measurable metrics that will tell you if conditions are correct for bike to start. Each and every one of them must be perfect in order for bike to start. If any one of them (most likely more than one), is not correct, bike will not start. Cranking it more and more and destroying battery will not fix those conditions. Cranking over and over will not dump old petrol out of tank and pour in new. Cranking over and over will not put new plugs into engine or re-gap them properly. Cranking over and over will not scrape dried petrol varnish from interior passages of carba.

Clogged carbs are also very likely. Spray carb cleaners no longer work to remove dried petrol varnish due to removal of chlorinated compounds. They must be disassembled down to every last nut, bolt and individual components and thoroughly physically scrubbed with brushes and flossed with wire. Do search for “clean carbs ducatiman” for threads with photos on what it take to restore carbs back to factory-fresh condition.

Also do search and thoroughly read up on problems and how to properly fix them so you don’t waste time and money breaking things or making them worse. Read, read, and read some more to make sure you understand how to correctly diagnose problems. And read some more on how to fix problems that have been positively diagnosed.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 10th, 2019 at 08:28 AM.
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Old October 10th, 2019, 06:34 AM   #11
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if I may barge in to add one suggestion......resist the temptation to resort to the use of "starting fluid". While being destructive to plastic slides and rubber based diaphragms....even if the bike starts and runs for 3 seconds....the underlying fuel system deficiencies still remain.

The stuff is NOT a pro diagnostic tool by any stretch...on the contrary can be destructive.

Properly cleaning the entire fuel system...tank, petcock and carbs (adjusting as needed) will offer reliable, ongoing performance.
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Old October 10th, 2019, 09:31 AM   #12
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Thank you for the links to the tools and equipment, I went out and got them this morning and i came back and hooked the bike to my car (without starting the car) like you told me. The bike started up on the 2nd start and giving It a little throttle. I miss gonna start testing with the multi meter and give you some numbers. I gonna watch some videos on how to do those things you said above. When I said I cleaned my carb, I did take it completely apart down to every screw and bolt and the float bowls and idle jet / pilot jet and the fuel mixture screw I watched a 26 minute video on how to do all that .. felt like I wasnít professionlly doing it. After I took it all apart I basically soaked it in sea foam cleaner and the before and after was just wow haha. I did take a wire and make sure all those holes werenít clogged and were ďsee throughĒ as well. Thatís when I put it back together. The bike was running before. Iím gonna Test spark and coils and see if my plugs need replaced. I was curious about my ďstatorĒ going out though because my battery kept dying and doesnít like to stay charged. I really appreciate all your help DANNOXYZ and thank you ducatiman. Everything your telling me isnít helping me and pointing me towards the right direction and my next step and I canít thank you guys enough honestly
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Old October 10th, 2019, 09:37 AM   #13
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When it did start I was giving it throttle and a Bunch of smoke was coming out both my exhausts. ANd let me do say I did have my gas tank fuel line and vacuum line that goes to my petcock dis connected. I know the fuel line goes on the right side but could you please help point out where these EXACT locations go for these hoses. I tried looking it up but I keep finding ones that have a different setup on their actual gas tank itself. I linked a few pictures i think I did it right .. first time trying.
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Old October 10th, 2019, 09:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
if I may barge in to add one suggestion......resist the temptation to resort to the use of "starting fluid". While being destructive to plastic slides and rubber based diaphragms....even if the bike starts and runs for 3 seconds....the underlying fuel system deficiencies still remain.

The stuff is NOT a pro diagnostic tool by any stretch...on the contrary can be destructive.

Properly cleaning the entire fuel system...tank, petcock and carbs (adjusting as needed) will offer reliable, ongoing performance.

I havenít ever tried using starting fluid to get it started. Havenít thought about that. Just needs cleaned. Sat for awhile and I went to look at it, got it running but it was rough. From 2005. 23k miles. I really am having a blast learning about everything that comes along with riding and not just going out and getting a bike to ride everyday. I enjoy learning the insides And outs about this bike and even if itís at a slow rate. Iím improving and Iím persistent I Know Iíll get it. Thank you guys again. For real.
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Old October 10th, 2019, 10:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by LandonH7 View Post
When it did start I was giving it throttle and a Bunch of smoke was coming out both my exhausts. ANd let me do say I did have my gas tank fuel line and vacuum line that goes to my petcock dis connected. I know the fuel line goes on the right side but could you please help point out where these EXACT locations go for these hoses. I tried looking it up but I keep finding ones that have a different setup on their actual gas tank itself. I linked a few pictures i think I did it right .. first time trying.
Search for "petcock hoses"

Big hose goes between big fuel-port on petcock and side fuel-rail inlet on carb.

Small hose goes on to small vacuum-port on back side of petcock to brass vacuum-nipple on carb.

While you're there, test petcock:

1. attach small hose to vacuum-port on back of petcock
2. attach big fuel-hose to petcock and aim free-end into measuring cup
3. apply vacuum or carefully suck on small vacuum-hose
4. does petrol flow from petcock into measuring cup?
5. let petrol flow for 30-seconds
6. how much did you collect in measuring cup?

Common issue is vacuum line between carbs and petcock leaks due to cracks or loose hose-clamps on ends. TIP: unbolt back of tank, lift it up and hold it up with prop-rod (wooden stick). This lets you get at back of petcock easily to attach vacuum-hose. Or when disconnecting, leave hose-ends attached to petcock and disconnect from carbs.
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Old October 10th, 2019, 05:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Search for "petcock hoses"

Big hose goes between big fuel-port on petcock and side fuel-rail inlet on carb.

Small hose goes on to small vacuum-port on back side of petcock to brass vacuum-nipple on carb.

While you're there, test petcock:

1. attach small hose to vacuum-port on back of petcock
2. attach big fuel-hose to petcock and aim free-end into measuring cup
3. apply vacuum or carefully suck on small vacuum-hose
4. does petrol flow from petcock into measuring cup?
5. let petrol flow for 30-seconds
6. how much did you collect in measuring cup?

Common issue is vacuum line between carbs and petcock leaks due to cracks or loose hose-clamps on ends. TIP: unbolt back of tank, lift it up and hold it up with prop-rod (wooden stick). This lets you get at back of petcock easily to attach vacuum-hose. Or when disconnecting, leave hose-ends attached to petcock and disconnect from carbs.

What do you mean by number 3? Where is the small vacuum hose located.
2. I attached the big fuel hose to the petcock which is connected to the gas tank, correct? And then do Is take the end thatís connected to the carb off and point and aim that free end into cup and measure? <4,5,6>
1. Still kind of confused on this one, Iím sure itís in the right spot, itís the smaller one. I will link pictures here soon. Itís a super tight fit and just looks odd maybe you can help me. Thank you again, so much!!
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Old October 10th, 2019, 05:29 PM   #17
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I tested spark plugs and thereís spark, the tips are black just on the top.. I still ordered new ones along with a new battery. I was testing it and it would jump around 10-12 quite a bit and when I can tried cranking it over it went all the way down to lower 8 higher 7. Also new and good fuel is in tank. I just need to test if it flows from petcock.. which I think it does. I unplugged the hoses before and gas started going everywhere out of the little brass nipple hole where the fuel line was suppose to be. Thank you for your time it helps me a lot!!
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Old October 10th, 2019, 05:44 PM   #18
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Tomorrow morning I will insert the new spark plugs and gap them properly. I found it was suppose to be between 0.024 and 0.028 inches AND/OR 0.5 and 0.7 MM. Could you clarify that for me? It is a 2005 ninja 250
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Old October 10th, 2019, 05:54 PM   #19
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So I’ve tested the battery, the spark plug and spark itself. There was spark.
Replacing plugs. Old.
Replacing battery. Was shot and basically destroyed by starting it over and over and by having the car started.. plus previous owner had it for a year and didn’t replace the battery either.
Going to test ignition coils with multi meter next .. thank you again! ����
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Old October 10th, 2019, 06:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandonH7 View Post
What do you mean by number 3? Where is the small vacuum hose located.
2. I attached the big fuel hose to the petcock which is connected to the gas tank, correct? And then do Is take the end that’s connected to the carb off and point and aim that free end into cup and measure? <4,5,6>
1. Still kind of confused on this one, I’m sure it’s in the right spot, it’s the smaller one. I will link pictures here soon. It’s a super tight fit and just looks odd maybe you can help me. Thank you again, so much!!
2. yes, remove hose-end from carb-inlet and aim into cup to measure 30-seconds worth of flow. How much did you get?

I think you have aftermarket manual petcock. It has only ONE big port on it for petrol, but no small port for vacuum? It flows by itself when you turn to ON right?

Aftermarket manual petcock.


OEM automatic petcock. Has 2nd vacuum port and requires vacuum in order to turn start fuel-flow in ON/RES position.


This leaves us with problem of unplugged vacuum hose from carbs. Lift off or remove tank and look at how hoses should be routed on carbs.



In front of choke cable on top, two vacuum ports are at top of carbs. One vacuum port goes to coast-enricher. Make sure if you have CA Emissions T-fitting, that it's not open. Should have 3rd hose in middle going towards front of bike. If port is open, close it with rubber-cap.

Second vacuum port goes to petcock. Since yours doesn't have vacuum fitting, cover 2nd vacuum port on carb with rubber cap.
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Old October 11th, 2019, 05:43 PM   #21
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Angry

So I put new battery and plugs in with correct gap and antiseize. Hooked petcock and tank back up to bike and my carb hoses are like shown in the picture on that carb.

The ďfuel inlet line from petcockĒ is the main fuel hose from the carb that attatches to the petcock right? (The bigger brass nipple?) And then ďthe vacuum hose to petcockĒ is the 2nd hose that connects to the smaller nipple on the petcock? I believe I do have the aftermarket petcock . I will send better pictures when i get off work. My brass nipples coming from the petcock thatí you attatch your hoses to are going horizontal as the factory ones are vertical...
I got bike to start on itís first or second try and it sounded really good I had full choke on and I ran it for about 90 seconds until I let go of the throttle.. and then it died and wouldnít start again after that so I didnít try too much to get it started again. As I was running the bike there was a real dark grey almost black smoke coming out of both exhaust pipes the entire time.. I did soak carb in sea foam cleaner when I cleaned it. And I didnít just put it right back together .. until it was dry.
Iíll link pics in a little. Thank you again man!
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Old October 12th, 2019, 01:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandonH7 View Post
So I put new battery and plugs in with correct gap and antiseize. Hooked petcock and tank back up to bike and my carb hoses are like shown in the picture on that carb.
Be sure to keep new battery on charger any time you're not riding it. We need to measure battery-voltage after starting to confirm that it's being or not being recharged first.

Quote:
The “fuel inlet line from petcock” is the main fuel hose from the carb that attatches to the petcock right? (The bigger brass nipple?)
yes.
Quote:
And then “the vacuum hose to petcock” is the 2nd hose that connects to the smaller nipple on the petcock?
Yes, since you do not have vacuum-port on petcock, hose that goes to it should be plugged. Remove it from carb and close off vacuum port on carb with rubber cap. Or stick bolt into open end of hose to seal it.


Also what is this brass nipple connected to?

Quote:
I got bike to start on it’s first or second try and it sounded really good I had full choke on and I ran it for about 90 seconds until I let go of the throttle.. and then it died and wouldn’t start again after that so I didn’t try too much to get it started again.
You need to adjust idle-speed higher so it doesn't drop when you let go of throttle. Screw IN idle-adjustment knob clockwise about 4-6 complete turns (circled in green). It'll probably idle too high next time, but will run without needing to hold throttle. Then back off choke as it warms up. When choke is zero, adjust idle knob to correct speed.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
You need to adjust idle-speed higher so it doesn't drop when you let go of throttle.
This problem could be caused by a clogged idle circuit, or since you mentioned black smoke it could be caused by something letting too much fuel dump into the engine, flooding it.

In either case, raising the idle speed wouldn't be the solution.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 07:41 AM   #24
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Be sure to keep new battery on charger any time you're not riding it. We need to measure battery-voltage after starting to confirm that it's being or not being recharged first.

yes.
Yes, since you do not have vacuum-port on petcock, hose that goes to it should be plugged. Remove it from carb and close off vacuum port on carb with rubber cap. Or stick bolt into open end of hose to seal it.


Also what is this brass nipple connected to?

You need to adjust idle-speed higher so it doesn't drop when you let go of throttle. Screw IN idle-adjustment knob clockwise about 4-6 complete turns (circled in green). It'll probably idle too high next time, but will run without needing to hold throttle. Then back off choke as it warms up. When choke is zero, adjust idle knob to correct speed.
Actually I did measure new battery voltage.. was 12.5 12.6 before cranking was steady. Started cranking over and would only drop to 11.5 and I didnít see it go any lower than that. But also thatís why I didnít wanna keep starting it and just keep trying like you told me earlier. I will hook it up to that thing I bought, itís just a float charger it keeps it from losing charge it doesnít actually charge the battery is what it says on it... it was only $5 from harbor freight . But I didnít measure it when the bike was actually running , and when I was giving it throttle. It was right before that..

And that brass nipple was (I think from the petcock..) which is why you thought I only had one brass nipple , the second was in my hand because I think it had came off the petcock Iím oretty sure that was the vacuum nipple I Put it back like shown but Iím not sure exactly how it was when i took it apart. Also there was no hose on top of gas tank (Iíll link picture at end) which is what I mean to earlier when I said ny brass nipples were running horizontally rather than vertical.. as your petcock pictures are shown. Iím not sure how the previous owner had it setup.
I will also adjust idle speed , thank you.
Again I really appreciate the help!! Thank youí so much
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Old October 12th, 2019, 07:46 AM   #25
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Pics and what goes on top of tank? I know something has to
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Old October 12th, 2019, 07:53 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
This problem could be caused by a clogged idle circuit, or since you mentioned black smoke it could be caused by something letting too much fuel dump into the engine, flooding it.

In either case, raising the idle speed wouldn't be the solution.

I soaked carb in seafoam cleanser has heard it will smoke black until seafoam is fully ran out of tank, carb, etc. up to 15 min. ? Not sure though.
Iíll look up clogged idle circuit also if you could tell me a little bit more about this please. BAsicLly if itís clogged it wonít allow bike to idle like it wants to or at all? Maybe bog?
But raising the idle speed wonít just fix it.. okay . But I need to know which setting to Put it on and it kinda just lets me turn and turn it both ways . I will look that up also.
The black smoke could be caused by what?opening throttle too much/ trying to start too often? Then that overfloods engine ?

So many different subjects, haha.
thank you also triple Jim ! Anybodyís suggestions help I appreciate it alot
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Old October 12th, 2019, 07:58 AM   #27
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Although DannoXYZ , I could remove brass nipple which is connected to the petcock the vacuum hose one and just act like it isn’t there. And then try the bolt in hose for the vacuum coming from carb? I don’t have rubber plug for the vacuum hose
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Old October 12th, 2019, 08:05 AM   #28
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But like I said before the bike was running. I still have yet to test ignition coil, cdi box or anything elset. Because It was running before so I wouldnít think those parts would just go out at that perfect time I started working on it. From the sounds of it has to be a fuel related problem or carb related problem ?? Most likely ? Weíre so close to finishing it up! Weíre like right there lol and I canít wait for next riding season. Gonna get this thing running like a champ and then weíre gonna do a repaint on it maybe a scrambler build Iím not sure yet !
Thank you guys for everything though!
AMazing forum page🎊
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Old October 12th, 2019, 01:19 PM   #29
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Started on first try again.. ran it for about another 90 seconds until it died when I was trying to set choke and let go of throttle. DOesnt wanna stsrt back up after the first stsrt. Just will turn over and over but can’t ever get it to stsrt. I was gonna take it around the neighborhood but right when I was getting my helmet and messing with choke it had died. Thank you again guys ... I really do appreciate it
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Old October 12th, 2019, 01:50 PM   #30
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Is black smoke still coming out of the exhaust pipes?
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Old October 12th, 2019, 03:11 PM   #31
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Just fact that it fired up confirms flywheel triggers, pickup-coils, igniter, ignition-coils, coil-wires and spark plugs are working. So no need to test or measure any of those.

Remaining concerns are:

- VRM working to charge battery?
- determine petcock status?
- carb adjustments correct?
- why is it not idling on its own?

State of battery charging is biggest issue as it would be wasted money to buy yet another one. So, keep trickle charger connected full-time 24/7 until we confirm VRM status. Fully-charged battery should be 13.8v on charger. Keep testing battery regularly.

To confirm VRM and petcock status, we need bike to idle on its own, so temporarily adjust idle screw to keep bike running so you have hands free to use multimeter to measure voltage while bike is running. So we’ve got 2 of three tests done:

1. Measure voltage at rest before cranking = 12.6v, which is good, fully-charged rested battery

2. Measure voltage while cranking = 11.5v which is also good, battery has good reserve capacity

3. Measure battery voltage every 2-minutes with bike running. Need to get bike running on its own to determine if battery is being charged. This test is most critical and needs to be done before anything else or we’ll drain new battery and destroy it.


If you don’t want to adjust idle screw, install cruise-control that locks throttle in open position. Or use velcro strap to lock on throttle in open position for at least 5-minutes so bike can fully warm up.

One purpose is to test VRM and other to blow out all Seafoam and accumulated junk in exhaust. Then we can determine if that smoke is coming from junk in exhaust or from inside engine. Not uncommon for bikes that’s been sitting to smoke when finally revived. If
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Old October 12th, 2019, 03:35 PM   #32
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When you cleaned carbs, how many turns out did you set pilot screws to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LandonH7 View Post
Although DannoXYZ , I could remove brass nipple which is connected to the petcock the vacuum hose one and just act like it isn’t there. And then try the bolt in hose for the vacuum coming from carb? I don’t have rubber plug for the vacuum hose
Most critical is that vacuum port on carb not be open to atmosphere. Either by plugging vacuum hose into petcock or plugging its open end with bolt since you don’t have rubber cap. Let’s figure out how this petcock works.

Now this looks more correct. Can you get photo of back side of petcock from other side of bike?



I’ve have encountre petcock like this before and have suspicion. That may explain why bike dies after 90-sec as petcock may not be delivering sufficient fuel because there’s vacuum-leak at petcock diaphragm. Brass nipple should NOT be removable, and just pushing it back in would give insufficient seal. Should re-install brass nipple with some RTV silicone on outside of nipple and tap it in with rubber mallet. Then test:

1. With bike off, disconnect both hoses from carbs and aim fuel line from carb and aim into measuring cup

2. Turn petcock to ON, does it flow petrol? If you get petrol out of both hoses, we might need to get new petcock or plug up one port.

3. Next apply vacuum to petcock’s vacuum port (unplug from carb end also). Vacuum can be applied by sucking on vacuum hose, dangerous if petcock if diaphragm is leaking. Or use syringe.

I prefer hand-operated vacuum-pump w/gauge because you can collect two valuable pieces of data. One is vacuum-level that opens petcock. Other is whether diaphragm holds vacuum, or you need to continually apply more and more vacuum to keep petrol flowing.

4. let petcock flow for 30-seconds. Turn OFF and measure amount collected in cup.



So, next stage after confirming VRM status is determining functionality of petcock.

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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:12 PM   #33
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gas-tank vent should have hose that goes down beneath bike around lower shock-mount. Similar to hose for carb-vent.

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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
This problem could be caused by a clogged idle circuit, or since you mentioned black smoke it could be caused by something letting too much fuel dump into the engine, flooding it.

In either case, raising the idle speed wouldn't be the solution.
I have a suspicion on why it may be running too rich. Related to carbs and petcock. I'll wait until he does petcock tests to see what exact issue may be.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
When you cleaned carbs, how many turns out did you set pilot screws to?



Most critical is that vacuum port on carb not be open to atmosphere. Either by plugging vacuum hose into petcock or plugging its open end with bolt since you donít have rubber cap. Letís figure out how this petcock works.

Now this looks more correct. Can you get photo of back side of petcock from other side of bike?



Iíve have encountre petcock like this before and have suspicion. That may explain why bike dies after 90-sec as petcock may not be delivering sufficient fuel because thereís vacuum-leak at petcock diaphragm. Brass nipple should NOT be removable, and just pushing it back in would give insufficient seal. Should re-install brass nipple with some RTV silicone on outside of nipple and tap it in with rubber mallet. Then test:

1. With bike off, disconnect both hoses from carbs and aim fuel line from carb and aim into measuring cup

2. Turn petcock to ON, does it flow petrol? If you get petrol out of both hoses, we might need to get new petcock or plug up one port.

3. Next apply vacuum to petcockís vacuum port (unplug from carb end also). Vacuum can be applied by sucking on vacuum hose, dangerous if petcock if diaphragm is leaking. Or use syringe.

I prefer hand-operated vacuum-pump w/gauge because you can collect two valuable pieces of data. One is vacuum-level that opens petcock. Other is whether diaphragm holds vacuum, or you need to continually apply more and more vacuum to keep petrol flowing.


So, next stage after confirming VRM status is determining functionality of petcock.


What is the vrm? And the bike was running before I took the carburetor out.
It was sitting and then the owner got it running and wanted to sell it and thatís when I bought it..
I think the vrm is working. But bike DOES have to be on for it to charge battery.. I canít get it started. I will try in the morning. Itís hooked up to charger right now.
But yes there are two brass nipples from petcock, the fuel line nipple does not come out, itís pretty intact. The vacuum hose nipple is the one that comes out and I just stuck is right back in and then attatched hose to the nipple.(as shown in that picture)
I will link another one from other side of carb
Also will get the silicone and get it back in there and let you know.

1. You said both hoses from carb? So disconnect the vacuum hose and the fuel hose from the carb? And aim them into measuring cup.. and the other side of the hoses leave connected to petcock? Right? Test if petrol flows out of both hoses or just fuel hose ? Everything correct? Just making 100% sure! Thank you

2. Turn on and test , measure.

3. So like above^ ...leave vacuum hose connected to petcock vacuum nipple port and suck on it from the side I disconnected from carb? Or like you said use the hand operated vacuum pump.. what about the fuel line hose, do I re connect it back to carb and petcock? Correct?
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:32 PM   #36
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Also my friend that works on bikes was the one who cleaned the carb and watched the video along taking it apart and putting it back together and the turns out for pilot screws were in that video. Do you think that could be messed up also?
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Is black smoke still coming out of the exhaust pipes?
Yes sir
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:35 PM   #38
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
gas-tank vent should have hose that goes down beneath bike around lower shock-mount. Similar to hose for carb-vent.

Which I donít have.. previous owner might have lost or removed it. I was wondering what that was, thank you. I did actually buy a
1ft long 1/4 hose to fit around it . Kind of short and doesnít fit all the way. Any suggestions there

Thanks a lot guys!
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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Just fact that it fired up confirms flywheel triggers, pickup-coils, igniter, ignition-coils, coil-wires and spark plugs are working. So no need to test or measure any of those.

Remaining concerns are:

- VRM working to charge battery?
- determine petcock status?
- carb adjustments correct?
- why is it not idling on its own?

State of battery charging is biggest issue as it would be wasted money to buy yet another one. So, keep trickle charger connected full-time 24/7 until we confirm VRM status. Fully-charged battery should be 13.8v on charger. Keep testing battery regularly.

To confirm VRM and petcock status, we need bike to idle on its own, so temporarily adjust idle screw to keep bike running so you have hands free to use multimeter to measure voltage while bike is running. So weíve got 2 of three tests done:

1. Measure voltage at rest before cranking = 12.6v, which is good, fully-charged rested battery

2. Measure voltage while cranking = 11.5v which is also good, battery has good reserve capacity

3. Measure battery voltage every 2-minutes with bike running. Need to get bike running on its own to determine if battery is being charged. This test is most critical and needs to be done before anything else or weíll drain new battery and destroy it.


If you donít want to adjust idle screw, install cruise-control that locks throttle in open position. Or use velcro strap to lock on throttle in open position for at least 5-minutes so bike can fully warm up.

One purpose is to test VRM and other to blow out all Seafoam and accumulated junk in exhaust. Then we can determine if that smoke is coming from junk in exhaust or from inside engine. Not uncommon for bikes thatís been sitting to smoke when finally revived. If





So fact that it fired up on its first time, but doesnít after that means all that is working? Even ignition coil? Iím not sure how that works Iím sure it wouldnít start at all if that was broke.

To confirm the vrm and petcock status we need it to idle on its own, okay so basically next time I get it started.. mess with the idle screw while holding the throttle? If I let go of the throttle the bike dies and I have to have it on like half or full choke to get it started.
When it was running I even had to had the choke on and it would idle between 4-5 even if I tried adjusting screw and choke, any less than 4 it would just stsrt turning off if I didnít give it gas.

1. Good
2. Good

3. Okay next time I get bike started I could hold throttle and make sure bike doesnít die while trying to adjust idle screw and choke? And then have someone else use multimeter and test battery every two minutes ? Or does the bike need to be running on its it own So we can test if it charges the battery? Like you said above. Or can I do the method I just said?
Or should I try and get it to idle by itself by adjusting the screw when it gets started on its first time or next time.. and choke? Or just leave full choke on?

Also 3. Basically what is the vrm? I know I said the bike was running and starting up and over like normal before I pulled carbs and cleaned them.

But since then, I have been trying to start it .. when I had the old battery in it.. I just put the new battery in yesterday and I pulled carbs out maybe 3 weeks ago , 2 and a half. And have been trouble shooting and diagnosing since then.. that couldíve damaged the vrm or whatever charges battery ? Is that what your saying?
And cause bike to start once or so and not want to again? If it isnít working and charging battery? I donít think thatís the problem because it was working before. Maybe the carb.

4. I can sit there and hold throttle for 5 minutes and let bike warm up and to also blow out seafoam and junk in exhaust.. I donít think itís from engine.

Wasnít doing that before I pulled carbs. It wasnít black smoke


Thank you DannoXYZ for all your help man itís appreciated
🙏🏽
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Old October 12th, 2019, 07:58 PM   #40
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VRM is Voltage Regulator Module aka regulator aka rectifier aka regulator-rectifier aka RR. It's part that converts variable-voltage AC from stator coils into steady ~14v DC to re-charge battery and to power ignitor, lights and other do-dads on bike. Battery is only used to start engine.

Ok, I figured 2nd "vacuum" port on petcock was red-herring. Someone thought bike wasn't running because there wasn't vacuum on petcock like OEM unit... BUT... it actually doesn't have vacuum diaphragm. Confirm back of your petcock looks like this.



So they didn't actually TEST if petcock was delivering adequate fuel, they just crammed brass nipple on there and connected to carb. I suspect it may not be delivering petrol at fast enough rate which may be why bike dies after 90-seconds. Then petcock continues to flow when bike's off and fills up float-bowls and it can run again.

1. remove forward brass-nipple from petcock and plug vacuum-line from carb with tight-fitting bolt. Add zip-tie or hose-clamp on top to be sure it seals. All hoses should have clamp or zip-tie to make sure they're sealed.

2. remove fuel-line from carb and aim into measuring cup

3. turn on petcock, measure petrol-flow for 30-seconds. How much did you collect?



Do whatever's needed to keep bike running for at least 6-minutes. Get helper if you need. Easiest to adjust idle-knob. Then measure battery-voltage every 2-minutes after it starts. This will tell us if VRM/RR is OK and re-charging battery properly.

1. measure battery voltage right after bike starts
2. measure battery voltage at 2-minutes after bike starts
3. measure battery voltage at 4-minutes after bike starts
4. measure batteyr voltage at 6-minutes after bike starts.


Quote:
4. I can sit there and hold throttle for 5 minutes and let bike warm up and to also blow out seafoam and junk in exhaust.. I don’t think it’s from engine.

Wasn’t doing that before I pulled carbs. It wasn’t black smoke
But your bike wasn't running before, so we can't compare before & after. On carb-cleaning, you'll want to see work-order on it and verify all steps done properly. I suspect it was not if YouTube video was used for instruction. Would you trust someone to perform surgery to remove aneurysm from your mum's brain while they watched YouTube video for help? If you don't know how many turns pilot screws are, you should re-do it yourself so you are sure.

Actually, you should probably disassemble carbs down to every last nut & bolt and replace all consumables with new parts. All O-rings, seals, all jets and float-valves with factory units. Who knows what previous-owners have done to muck up innards. Drilling out jets rather than properly cleaning is common tactic, ill-fated at best and now you have to deal with aftermath. Search here for "clean carbs ducatiman" to see what's involved in properly cleaning carbs. If you don't want to do it yourself, send them off to ducatiman for proper refurb/restoration job. Otherwise, we can never be sure carbs aren't problem here and will go around in circles forever.

Sure you want to learn, but to do proper carb-cleaning, you would have needed to disassemble and clean at least 100 carbs for experience. And you'll need correct equipment to do it: scrub-brushes of various sizes, guitar wires of various matching sizes, ultrasonic cleaner with radioactive caustic solvents, 100000psi micro soda-blaster. Unless you want to learn to do carb-cleaning professionally as career, it doesn't make sense to accumulate all this equipment just to properly clean one set of carbs.

Post photos of spark-plugs you pulled from bike.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 13th, 2019 at 09:45 AM. Reason: By
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