Low beams on with High beams. Problems?

choneofakind · January 11th, 2012, 07:33 PM

When I ride back roads at night, I use my high beam to see further, but then I can't see what's right in front of me, which is important, because I don't normally travel all that fast at night. Effectively, I want to make the low filament stay lit constantly, and light the high filament in addition to that with my high beam switch rather than use the high/low switch to swap between the high and low filaments like the bike currently does.

I was thinking it would be possible to take the low beam wire (yellow/red) out of the hi/low switch, and splice it into the power going into the switch(blue/yellow) and then reinsert the blue/yellow wire into where it normally goes in the left hand controls. This way, the circuit is always complete on the low beam, and the low/high switch becomes an on/off switch for the high beam.

My question is, would I have to worry about overheating any wiring or any other components (housing, bulb, socket etc) since I would be running 115W (55W low + 60W high) of filaments instead of what is currently the max wattage of just 60W? I plan on keeping the legal wattage bulb, so higher wattage bulbs really aren't a consideration.

Also, I wouldn't need to wire in a diode at all right? I'm not completing any circuits by doing this except forcing the low beam to be constantly on, so backwards flow shouldn't be an issue here.

I attached the pre-gen wiring schematic as a point of reference.

Let me know your thoughts on this. I'm only considering this because I decided that a complete HID retrofit seems like a lot of work and expense and might not even work right since the inside of the lens is bubbled and could possibly scatter light, which is the purpose of the HID projector in the first place. I don't want to fry my wiring harness.

nickjpass · January 11th, 2012, 07:48 PM

Sorry for wasting your time, but I can't believe I could understand that chart! I'm so glad I take Digital Electronic Engineering classes

so, let me study, and see if I can help

choneofakind · January 11th, 2012, 07:51 PM

haha I'm glad you could read the wiring diagram too nick...

nickjpass · January 11th, 2012, 08:35 PM

It's funny because I'm in tenth grade.

So, since I have no idea what to look for to solve this problem, I could ask my instructor, but I'm not sure he would understand.

DaBlue1 · January 11th, 2012, 08:39 PM

What type/brand of bulb (Silverstar, etc..) do you have in now? Have you considered changing to a bulb that shines farther and brighter and still allow you to see right in front of you? Also if the high beam is aimed to high up it will move the light off the road. Because the bulb is a dual filament type bulb on the pregen, I would not advise trying to illuminate both filaments. That would cause the bulb to overheat and fail.

randy328 · January 11th, 2012, 08:50 PM

My concern would be that the stator couldn't output the power required to run both lights at the same time. The stock output is about 180W, most references say there is about 60W available (i.e., the bike needs 120W to run with everything). So, adding an additional 55W would put you right at the edge of the output (it only outputs 16 amps, see the next paragraph about amps).

I'd also be concerned about the current draw across the headlight fuse with both of them on. You'd be close to 9 amps, fuse is 10. You'd need a larger fuse, and I am also worried about increasing the fuse rating beyond what the engineers designed it to do.

Strictly speaking on the electrical wiring side, I haven't looked at the wiring colors/diagram, but yes, you could wire the low beam to always on and the Hi/Lo as a HIBeam off switch.

Asspire · January 11th, 2012, 09:24 PM

not familiar with pregens, is it a seal beam type headlight, two filaments in one bulb or separate. also what is the max current for the relay?

if the wiring is beefy enough, you can up the fuse, and put a diode from highbeam wire to low beam wire, this way when the highs are turn on the lows will power. or use a relay wireharness kit to be on the safe side

GeorgeRYoung · January 12th, 2012, 07:34 AM

It would be bright for a while, though.

choneofakind · January 12th, 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

What type/brand of bulb (Silverstar, etc..) do you have in now?

right now I have a Sylvania Silverstar 60/55. It was a significant improvement over stock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Also if the high beam is aimed to high up it will move the light off the road. Because the bulb is a dual filament type bulb on the pregen, I would not advise trying to illuminate both filaments. That would cause the bulb to overheat and fail.

I've got my bright light aimed straight foreward. Stock says the light should go down like 2 inches for every 20 feet foreward or something. I backed up to the opposite side of the garage and adjusted so that the light was the same height on the wall as bulb was. The only time I have issues is on back roads when I'm wanting to see far and near to watch for animals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy328

My concern would be that the stator couldn't output the power required to run both lights at the same time. So, adding an additional 55W would put you right at the edge of the output.

I'd also be concerned about the current draw across the headlight fuse with both of them on. You'd be close to 9 amps, fuse is 10. You'd need a larger fuse, and I am also worried about increasing the fuse rating beyond what the engineers designed it to do.
.

The wattage would only be a problem at low rpms where the bike isn't making as much charge right?

as for the current, I'm not a fan of upping the fuse unless I know that the wiring is safe at that current level. I found some high output harnesses online, but they're like $60 and that kinda defeats the purpose of finding a cheap way to get more light...

I googled for anyone using a 100/55W bulb on these bikes since the wattage and draw of that bulb would be similar to this, but no such luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asspire

not familiar with pregens, is it a seal beam type headlight, two filaments in one bulb or separate. also what is the max current for the relay?

it's an H4 bulb, so 2 filaments in one bulb

choneofakind · January 12th, 2012, 10:53 AM

General consensus online (outside the forum) is that it's not a good idea do to running double the standard current through wiring that's only intended for the 4.5A that the high filament normally draws...

Skippii · January 12th, 2012, 11:07 AM

HID is the best way to do it. Next is just to run an 80/100watt bulb. If you look at an H4 bulb, you can see that the low beam filament only shines on the low reflector part of the housing, while the high beam shines on both the low and the high parts of the reflector equally. So because only about half the light from the high beam is shined downward, you only get about half the brightness on the low beam pattern when using the high-beam. An 80/100w bulb is a simple, easy way to address this. I've used both the HID and the 80/100 bulbs in the pregens, and both worked well. You can also get 100/120w bulbs, which I used in my Ducati, but didn't try on the Ninjette. They should work fine, though, since I often draw about 80watts with my heated gear..The pregen ninja can support about 80w of extra juice, not just 60.

To run both filaments at the same time is possible if you add a relay that's actuated by the high beam to connect the low beam as well. Bulb life will probably be significantly shorter with all the heat, but the housing and wiring should be fine. To be clear, though, there is no difference between doing this and running a higher wattage bulb, except that running both filaments will be less reliable, more expensive, and more complicated.

choneofakind · January 12th, 2012, 12:21 PM

So Skippii, you're saying instead of doing that I should just use a 100/55W bulb? I want to keep the low beam legal, but I want to light the road directly in front of me as well as further down the road when I have the high beam on. Will just swapping to a 100/55W bulb work better?

Skippii · January 12th, 2012, 01:51 PM

It's highly unlikely you'll find a 100/55w h4. As for legality...wattage ratings are kind of like mattress tags. An 80w will put out less light than a dot-approved HID, but it will be in a beam pattern that doesn't blind oncoming drivers. It will increase visibility over stock and be safer in just about every way. Here in virginia, the law is that we can't use more than 4 55w lights at a time, so don't think that the wattage DOT laws are there to limit light output...there're more of a saftey concern for wiring harnesses that were in use back when the laws were made. Also, besides the fact that cops don't care, they'd also need a search warrent to check the bulbs on your bike.
Posted via Mobile Device

KChatham · January 12th, 2012, 06:18 PM

I use to ride with low and high beams on, together at night, for about half a year, and then my low beams burnt out. They were the original bulbs though. You can run with both on by simply placing the switch halfway between high beam and low beam; no rewiring is required.

randy328 · January 12th, 2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

The wattage would only be a problem at low rpms where the bike isn't making as much charge right?

The wattage I quoted is max output at 5-6K RPM. So yes, anything below that you are straining.

Skippii · January 12th, 2012, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy328

The wattage I quoted is max output at 5-6K RPM. So yes, anything below that you are straining.

I can run 75 watts extra on my bike without it straining.

juxsa · January 30th, 2012, 10:26 PM

Get an HID kit. I got mine for $40 shipped. The kit I got had 2 ballists and bulbs. I used both of them since I am running 2 head lights but if you wanted to keep yours stock looking you could run 1 and then get your buddy to buy the other one off you and spend a Saturday working on your bikes together. That one HID is going to put out way more light than any halogen bulb will and at half the watts.

choneofakind · January 30th, 2012, 10:28 PM

Right, but I don't want to blind people with glare. If I do HID's, I'm doing a full retrofit with projectors, and that adds cost

juxsa · January 31st, 2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Right, but I don't want to blind people with glare. If I do HID's, I'm doing a full retrofit with projectors, and that adds cost

as long as its aimed correctly I don't think it would blind any one any more than current cars do. I didn't really mess with my factory light since I decided to take all that stuff off. Can you aim the factory headlight?

kevlar250 · January 31st, 2012, 04:52 PM

Nobody has gone "blind" from somebody's retro'ed HID's that I know of, annoyed, inconvenienced, maybe. I believe the glare problem is exaggerated and mainly brought on by a poorly aimed installation and the use of the 55w systems instead of the 35w. People need to quit staring at the lights and look off to the side for those few seconds an oncoming overly bright set of headlights comes their way. Even an expensive set of perfectly adjusted projector HID's will hit you in the eyes when cresting a hill. Time to get over it. IMHO the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

choneofakind · January 31st, 2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Time to get over it.

Gee thanks.

You paying for my ticket when I blind a cop because I'm coming over a hill? The local cops are sticky about headlights where I live. I have a couple friends who have gotten pulled over for having blue headlights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxsa

Can you aim the factory headlight?

Yes I can. Right now I have it set to that the high beam is pointed level with the ground. It's pretty good, but not perfect. I'm worried about when I'm on back roads in the valley and want to be able to see right in front of me as well as far ahead. Lots of deer and other critters.

juxsa · January 31st, 2012, 06:11 PM

by "blind" some one I meant temporarily blind them from the bright light of the HID so that they can't see very well due to the light interfering with their night vision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Nobody has gone "blind" from somebody's retro'ed HID's that I know of, annoyed, inconvenienced, maybe. I believe the glare problem is exaggerated and mainly brought on by a poorly aimed installation and the use of the 55w systems instead of the 35w. People need to quit staring at the lights and look off to the side for those few seconds an oncoming overly bright set of headlights comes their way. Even an expensive set of perfectly adjusted projector HID's will hit you in the eyes when cresting a hill. Time to get over it. IMHO the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

kevlar250 · February 1st, 2012, 05:41 PM

Juxsa, yes, sorry, I know it didn't mean permanently blind, I was just over accentuating, the same way this subject is usually dealt with in forums. As for getting tickets, some areas are more prone to law issues than others so don't use the 8K,10K bulbs, get the 4500K, they make better light than the bluer ones anyways. Although I'm not an officer, I would think they would be a lot less burdened coming over a hill and seeing a glare from a headlight than coming over a hill and seeing the scene of a motorcycle/deer collision. Some like me like our HID's, some don't. I would love projectors but until then I'll fly with my retro's

juxsa · February 1st, 2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Juxsa, yes, sorry, I know it didn't mean permanently blind, I was just over accentuating, the same way this subject is usually dealt with in forums. As for getting tickets, some areas are more prone to law issues than others so don't use the 8K,10K bulbs, get the 4500K, they make better light than the bluer ones anyways. Although I'm not an officer, I would think they would be a lot less burdened coming over a hill and seeing a glare from a headlight than coming over a hill and seeing the scene of a motorcycle/deer collision. Some like me like our HID's, some don't. I would love projectors but until then I'll fly with my retro's

haha right on. Yeah The bulbs i got ar the 6k ones. just a hint of blue but im not worried about getting a ticket

kevlar250 · February 2nd, 2012, 12:15 AM

Then there's the stories about HID's causing deer to flee instead of freeze on the road like conventional headlights have a tendency to do. Last Summer, in 3 separate occasions, (we're infested with those overgrown rats around here!) had deer run out of the ditch and turn and disappear after seeing those 5k HIDs of mine. I think the color of the light scares them.

choneofakind · February 2nd, 2012, 09:15 AM

ehhhhhhh, as much as I hate the rats on stilts, I really doubt one color of light scares them away more than other colors. Usually just flash your lights at them and honk and rev and they run. The trick is seeing them in the first place. damn things are everywhere.

January 11th, 2012, 07:48 PM	#2
nickjpass #squid Name: nickypoo Location: Five Guys Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jul '16	Sorry for wasting your time, but I can't believe I could understand that chart! I'm so glad I take Digital Electronic Engineering classes so, let me study, and see if I can help __________________________________________________

January 11th, 2012, 08:35 PM	#4
nickjpass #squid Name: nickypoo Location: Five Guys Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jul '16	It's funny because I'm in tenth grade. So, since I have no idea what to look for to solve this problem, I could ask my instructor, but I'm not sure he would understand. __________________________________________________

January 12th, 2012, 07:34 AM	#8
GeorgeRYoung ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Ottawa, Canada Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250, C10 Concours Posts: 109	bulb might get kind of hot It would be bright for a while, though.

January 12th, 2012, 11:07 AM	#11
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	HID is the best way to do it. Next is just to run an 80/100watt bulb. If you look at an H4 bulb, you can see that the low beam filament only shines on the low reflector part of the housing, while the high beam shines on both the low and the high parts of the reflector equally. So because only about half the light from the high beam is shined downward, you only get about half the brightness on the low beam pattern when using the high-beam. An 80/100w bulb is a simple, easy way to address this. I've used both the HID and the 80/100 bulbs in the pregens, and both worked well. You can also get 100/120w bulbs, which I used in my Ducati, but didn't try on the Ninjette. They should work fine, though, since I often draw about 80watts with my heated gear..The pregen ninja can support about 80w of extra juice, not just 60. To run both filaments at the same time is possible if you add a relay that's actuated by the high beam to connect the low beam as well. Bulb life will probably be significantly shorter with all the heat, but the housing and wiring should be fine. To be clear, though, there is no difference between doing this and running a higher wattage bulb, except that running both filaments will be less reliable, more expensive, and more complicated. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

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January 11th, 2012, 07:51 PM	#3
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	haha I'm glad you could read the wiring diagram too nick...

January 11th, 2012, 08:50 PM	#6
randy328 CMRA Mini Endurance #6 Name: Randy Location: Paradise, Tx Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR954, CBR600RR, EX250 Posts: 108	My concern would be that the stator couldn't output the power required to run both lights at the same time. The stock output is about 180W, most references say there is about 60W available (i.e., the bike needs 120W to run with everything). So, adding an additional 55W would put you right at the edge of the output (it only outputs 16 amps, see the next paragraph about amps). I'd also be concerned about the current draw across the headlight fuse with both of them on. You'd be close to 9 amps, fuse is 10. You'd need a larger fuse, and I am also worried about increasing the fuse rating beyond what the engineers designed it to do. Strictly speaking on the electrical wiring side, I haven't looked at the wiring colors/diagram, but yes, you could wire the low beam to always on and the Hi/Lo as a HIBeam off switch.

January 11th, 2012, 09:24 PM	#7
Asspire Fix It Till Ya Break It Name: Asspyre Location: T.Dot Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 08 250RRrrrr Posts: 623	not familiar with pregens, is it a seal beam type headlight, two filaments in one bulb or separate. also what is the max current for the relay? if the wiring is beefy enough, you can up the fuse, and put a diode from highbeam wire to low beam wire, this way when the highs are turn on the lows will power. or use a relay wireharness kit to be on the safe side

January 12th, 2012, 10:53 AM	#10
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	General consensus online (outside the forum) is that it's not a good idea do to running double the standard current through wiring that's only intended for the 4.5A that the high filament normally draws...

January 12th, 2012, 12:21 PM	#12
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	So Skippii, you're saying instead of doing that I should just use a 100/55W bulb? I want to keep the low beam legal, but I want to light the road directly in front of me as well as further down the road when I have the high beam on. Will just swapping to a 100/55W bulb work better?

January 12th, 2012, 01:51 PM	#13
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	It's highly unlikely you'll find a 100/55w h4. As for legality...wattage ratings are kind of like mattress tags. An 80w will put out less light than a dot-approved HID, but it will be in a beam pattern that doesn't blind oncoming drivers. It will increase visibility over stock and be safer in just about every way. Here in virginia, the law is that we can't use more than 4 55w lights at a time, so don't think that the wattage DOT laws are there to limit light output...there're more of a saftey concern for wiring harnesses that were in use back when the laws were made. Also, besides the fact that cops don't care, they'd also need a search warrent to check the bulbs on your bike. Posted via Mobile Device

January 12th, 2012, 06:18 PM	#14
KChatham ninjette.org member Name: Kyle Location: San Luis Obispo Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1988 EX250 Ninja Posts: 48	I use to ride with low and high beams on, together at night, for about half a year, and then my low beams burnt out. They were the original bulbs though. You can run with both on by simply placing the switch halfway between high beam and low beam; no rewiring is required.

January 30th, 2012, 10:26 PM	#17
juxsa ninjette.org newbie Name: Andy Location: Knoxville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 9	Get an HID kit. I got mine for $40 shipped. The kit I got had 2 ballists and bulbs. I used both of them since I am running 2 head lights but if you wanted to keep yours stock looking you could run 1 and then get your buddy to buy the other one off you and spend a Saturday working on your bikes together. That one HID is going to put out way more light than any halogen bulb will and at half the watts.

January 30th, 2012, 10:28 PM	#18
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Right, but I don't want to blind people with glare. If I do HID's, I'm doing a full retrofit with projectors, and that adds cost

January 31st, 2012, 04:52 PM	#20
kevlar250 ninjette.org member Name: Kevin Location: MN Metro Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): '94 Vulcan 1500, '06 Katana 600, '08 FZ1 Posts: 133	Nobody has gone "blind" from somebody's retro'ed HID's that I know of, annoyed, inconvenienced, maybe. I believe the glare problem is exaggerated and mainly brought on by a poorly aimed installation and the use of the 55w systems instead of the 35w. People need to quit staring at the lights and look off to the side for those few seconds an oncoming overly bright set of headlights comes their way. Even an expensive set of perfectly adjusted projector HID's will hit you in the eyes when cresting a hill. Time to get over it. IMHO the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

February 1st, 2012, 05:41 PM	#23
kevlar250 ninjette.org member Name: Kevin Location: MN Metro Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): '94 Vulcan 1500, '06 Katana 600, '08 FZ1 Posts: 133	Juxsa, yes, sorry, I know it didn't mean permanently blind, I was just over accentuating, the same way this subject is usually dealt with in forums. As for getting tickets, some areas are more prone to law issues than others so don't use the 8K,10K bulbs, get the 4500K, they make better light than the bluer ones anyways. Although I'm not an officer, I would think they would be a lot less burdened coming over a hill and seeing a glare from a headlight than coming over a hill and seeing the scene of a motorcycle/deer collision. Some like me like our HID's, some don't. I would love projectors but until then I'll fly with my retro's

February 2nd, 2012, 12:15 AM	#25
kevlar250 ninjette.org member Name: Kevin Location: MN Metro Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): '94 Vulcan 1500, '06 Katana 600, '08 FZ1 Posts: 133	Then there's the stories about HID's causing deer to flee instead of freeze on the road like conventional headlights have a tendency to do. Last Summer, in 3 separate occasions, (we're infested with those overgrown rats around here!) had deer run out of the ditch and turn and disappear after seeing those 5k HIDs of mine. I think the color of the light scares them.

February 2nd, 2012, 09:15 AM	#26
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	ehhhhhhh, as much as I hate the rats on stilts, I really doubt one color of light scares them away more than other colors. Usually just flash your lights at them and honk and rev and they run. The trick is seeing them in the first place. damn things are everywhere.