Thermo-Bob installation on a Ninja 250 - Page 2

exploring/carolina · December 30th, 2014, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Yup. And if you crank your heat gun way up instead of down, you can overextend the plunger to the point where it takes some massaging to get it back in. =)

Never tried a heat gun before!

Chicagobob · December 31st, 2014, 08:32 AM

Nice idea. Why not dispense with the stock thermostat housing altogether, and use a plastic Trail Tech insert for the temp sensor?

exploring/carolina · December 31st, 2014, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagobob

Nice idea. Why not dispense with the stock thermostat housing altogether, and use a plastic Trail Tech insert for the temp sensor?

Had been thinking about using a coupler and drilling & tapping it for the sender to get rid of the thermostat housing.

Can you tell me more about the trail tech sender? Sounds like the way to go!

Thanks!

Chicagobob · December 31st, 2014, 09:05 AM

It's an in-line plastic housing, shown in the KLR Thermo-bob review. It's available for several hose sizes. See http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gau...arts/7500-3052

exploring/carolina · December 31st, 2014, 10:13 AM

Thanks for the info.

Using the original temp gauge on the Cafe Racer. Their sender & coupling would be the easy way to go if compatible with the OEM gauge. Will check it out and post coolant hose mods & sender installation getting rid of the thermostat housing while using the Thermo-Bob unit. Probably modify water pump inlet pipe & reducing height of the radiator cap installation since the faring is removed.

Working on replacing clutch basket on the Ninja today.

InvisiBill · December 31st, 2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exploring/carolina

Using the original temp gauge on the Cafe Racer. Their sender & coupling would be the easy way to go if compatible with the OEM gauge. Will check it out and post coolant hose mods & sender installation getting rid of the thermostat housing while using the Thermo-Bob unit.

I would think you should be able to mount the stock sender in a similar inline coupler. In the PDF wiring diagram I have, it shows it as being a two-wire sensor (as opposed to grounding through the mount), so you should be able to stick it in anywhere without worrying about grounding the mounting point. That should give you a TrailTech-like setup with OEM operation.

If it's a single-wire sensor (looks like it in your pic), the worst you should have to do is add a ground wire to the sender housing to complete the circuit.

exploring/carolina · December 31st, 2014, 04:46 PM

Appreciate the input.

Installed the clutch basket today and prepping the clutch cover for paint. Removing the other side cover to clean & prep for paint, too. Installed speed metal bar end mirrors (temporarily) today and they look good.

After I finish working on the engine cases, will get on the coolant system. Can't wait to work out this system.

Enjoy working on projects!

Happy New Year

choneofakind · December 31st, 2014, 11:28 PM

What kind of paint and prep do you use for the case? That gets toasty.

Ghostt · December 31st, 2014, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

What kind of paint and prep do you use for the case? That gets toasty.

It doesn't get that hot for regular spray paint, I personally use Krylon satin black, plain and simple, and it holds up well.

SIDENOTE: if you look in the after pictures, you'll also see the stainless steel allen heads, adds a nice touch.

csmith12 · December 31st, 2014, 11:58 PM

It's 2am Scott, isn't it time for bed or are you into the liquor cabinet?

Ghostt · January 1st, 2015, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

It's 2am Scott, isn't it time for bed or are you into the liquor cabinet?

I'm in CST, and I don't drink anymore just hanging out, chillin'

exploring/carolina · January 1st, 2015, 06:26 AM

I use Dupli-Color 500F Engine Primer & Paint rattle can.

exploring/carolina · January 1st, 2015, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostt

SIDENOTE: if you look in the after pictures, you'll also see the stainless steel allen heads, adds a nice touch.

Going to do the same, looks very nice!

Time for a New Years Day ride on my other Ninja:

Ghostt · January 1st, 2015, 07:47 AM

I've been playing around with the idea to just strip the paint off, and just leave it bare aluminum, and maybe either semi- polished, of fully.

I made an attempt at the recently with my Dremel tool trying various types of of brushes, wheels etc... I had mixed results.

I was wanting a look like my grab handle turned out, with that I just used paint stripper, a green Scotch-brite pad, and elbow grease.

But the dremel tool didn't have the same end results, as I had hoped for a brushed/satin look like the grab handle turned out, I'm just gonna try to fix it with using the same method as the grab handle, and hope of the best.

Worst case, either I pull the cover and take the polishing wheel to it, or just repaint it and leave it. Damn weather lately was be too cold to even think about.

exploring/carolina · January 1st, 2015, 07:51 AM

Going with semi gloss black on my covers. Polished aluminum looks nice, too. Stripped & polished the forks on my CX500D Street Tracker, and they turned out nice.

Time for a foothills twisty ride!

Ghostt · January 1st, 2015, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exploring/carolina

Going with semi gloss black on my covers. Polished aluminum looks nice, too. Stripped & polished the forks on my CX500D Street Tracker, and they turned out nice.

Time for a foothills twisty ride!

I'm wanting to just do part of the covers, just the fronts, and leave the sides painted, due to it will contrast nicely with the stainless steel hardware.

As I said worse case, they go back to satin black.

exploring/carolina · January 14th, 2015, 08:08 AM

Ordered a 3/4" Bypass Tee (without brass barbed fitting) yesterday that's part of the Thermo-Bob kit to replace the original thermostat housing. It already has 1/4" pipe threads installed for the brass barbed fitting.

Going to use a 1/4" pipe to 1/8" pipe bushing threaded directly into the 3/4" Bypass Tee for the original temp indicator sender to thread into. Found the OEM sender is 1/8" pipe thread.

Working on other parts of the Cafe project right now, so will be a little while before posting photos of Thermo-Bob unit with bypass tee replacing thermostat housing installed.

Believe I will need to connect a ground wire to the fitting to make the sending unit work.

3/4" Bypass Tee installed at the lower radiator outlet. Will use this fitting to replace the thermostat housing:

Thermo-Bob & original thermostat housing plumbing:

1/4" to 1/8" pipe bushing will thread into Bypass Tee so OEM temp sender can thread into bushing:

ninjunk · January 14th, 2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exploring/carolina

Agree, a bypass on the cylinder head side of the thermostat to the waterpump intake would work. The size of the bypass ID hose/fittings would be important, did not keep any info on this unless it's in this thread.

The OEM thermostat information used in the original post, cracks @ 146F to 152F, found this info to change in a later service manual "supplement" to crack @ 177F to 182F with full open @ 203F.

I ride this Ninja weekly and it still warms up nicely within 5 to 10 minutes when the temps are 40F and have not had any issues with it when the temps are 90F and above.

Bringing this back from the dead but does the supplement say anything or give you any indication of when this might have happened or if there was a P/N change? The way the stock thermo housing works, it would be pretty easy to just tap a bypass fitting into it. It basically IS a thermobob itself.

Partzilla lists the same Kawi p/n thermo fitting 86-2007. Too bad moto OEM's didn't standardize thermostats the way auto mfg's do.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...9054-1058.html

exploring/carolina · January 14th, 2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjunk

Bringing this back from the dead but does the supplement say anything or give you any indication of when this might have happened or if there was a P/N change? The way the stock thermo housing works, it would be pretty easy to just tap a bypass fitting into it. It basically IS a thermobob itself.

Partzilla lists the same Kawi p/n thermo fitting 86-2007. Too bad moto OEM's didn't standardize thermostats the way auto mfg's do.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...9054-1058.html

My 1980 Honda CX500D has a thermostat bypass warm up circuit. My Ninja 250 & KLR did not.

The fitting (bypass tee) I'm using to replace the thermostat housing could be used as a OEM thermostat bypass warm up circuit between the head & thermostat with another bypass tee connected to the lower radiator outlet hose. I'm refining the Thermo-Bob installation on this Ninja that uses off the shelf Stant thermostat.

http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/IM08_v9c.pdf

exploring/carolina · January 15th, 2015, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjunk

Bringing this back from the dead but does the supplement say anything or give you any indication of when this might have happened or if there was a P/N change?

Checked my manuals this morning:

The original manual for 86 & 87 Ninja 250:
Thermostat cracks @ 146 to 152F with full open @ 176F

Supplement Ninja 250 manual for 88 to 2007:
Thermostat cracks @ 177 to 188F and full open @ 203F

Since there's only one number for all Ninja 250s, the later (hotter) thermostat # works in all Ninja 250s, that's my logic.

choneofakind · July 19th, 2015, 02:57 PM

Update to this thread since there's a new T-bob unit out. The new T-bob version 3.0 is a little more readily integrated into your cooling system. I was able to ditch the stock thermostat housing completely. It's great.

I did a little different than Exploring/Carolina. first thing was I turned the barbed bypass fitting around. Purpose here was that I wanted to be able to put a wrench on my engine mount without having to take the line off. I found that with the fitting oriented like he had it, I had to take the bypass hose off completely to do that. So far, no issues with it.

Next, I ditched the stock housing. To do this cleanly, I had to do 2 things: get the temp sensor installed in the Tbob unit and get it to read so my temp gauge worked. Part one was easy. There's a plug in the T-bob unit that's the correct size and thread for your temp probe.

The second part took some thinking. I wasn't getting correct voltage because there was no continuity through the housing and therefore I was unable to ground the temp probe. I solved this by running a tap through one of the T-bob housing cap bolt holes to clear off some anodizing and get metal contact. Then I extended the housing ground lead on the wiring harness and used a 2-prong connector and slid it under the housing bolt. Works like a charm now.

Very pleased with my Thermobob setup. Bike comes right up to operating temp on the gauge in about a mile, choke has to be turned off as soon as I start moving, or else I get the telltale bog that says my choke is making my bike too rich. Temp needle sticks at 11:00 or so, only comes up when I'm at a stop light, regardless of how warm or cold it is outside. On that note, I have a new fan temp switch coming because my radiator fan doesn't come on, despite the fact that the whole system works right.

but that's a different post for a different thread. oh well.

Happy with my purchase!!

exploring/carolina · July 19th, 2015, 03:11 PM

That's a great solution.

If I understand you correctly, the new Thermo-Bob unit has a port threaded for the 1/8NPT Temp sending unit?

Nice upgrade.

Have not worked on the Ninja project lately, so will post pics in a different project thread when completed.

How the project looks for now:

choneofakind · July 19th, 2015, 03:21 PM

Yepp, that's correct. Comes with two holes in it. One hole has the small barb in it for the bypass line, the other hole has a plug in it. Pull the plug out and the temp probe threads right in. Use a little Swagelok SWAK (or other pipe sealant. I just used this because I could swipe a little from work) or teflon tape if you please and it seals in the threads without issue.

Doing the Blue Collar bobbers retrofit, I assume?

EDIT: one important thing to note is that the Thermobob 3 unit looks backwards from the previous housings. The cap on the housing faces the radiator, while the other end faces the back of the bike. This is backwards in appearance from previous thermobobs. Bill made sure that I knew this in an email. He's very helpful for tech support. A+ to him as well. He always emails that day, is helpful, and knows what he's talking about. Thought I would mention that.

exploring/carolina · July 19th, 2015, 03:34 PM

Yep, Blue Collar Bobbers. The Blue Collar Kit makes it easy on the Ninja 250. Built a 1980 Honda CX500D tracker and got parts from many sources. Just refined a 190F radiator fan switch installation (off the shelf parts) operating a Ducati fan for the CX. Bike originally from Honda with a direct drive fan. Complete project turned out nice.

Bill is a great guy to deal with. Will probably buy a Thermo-Bob III for my Ninja 250 Cafe Racer project. Now I know why I was waiting!

Will get back on the Ninja 250 this fall. It's going to be sweet!

Thanks for posting!!!!

InvisiBill · August 13th, 2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Update to this thread since there's a new T-bob unit out. The new T-bob version 3.0 is a little more readily integrated into your cooling system. I was able to ditch the stock thermostat housing completely.

Not that it really affects me personally, I'm just curious... Were you able to simply install the Thermo-Bob into the stock hoses in place of the OEM thermostat housing, without modifying anything? If so, that's great for PnP-ability.

I wonder if he could do a PreGen kit and include your ground wire jumper and clean up the threads (or tap another separate screw). Your setup seems pretty slick-looking (very OEM-like) as well as being easy (if you don't need to modify the upper hose at all). To me, that sounds like the perfect type of product to sell.

I really need to get around to finishing my 500 "Thermo-Bill" project... The dual cylinder outputs and integration with the filler neck make this a lot more complicated.

choneofakind · August 13th, 2015, 01:22 PM

iirc, you could use the stock hoses, but the bypass line was put at a funny angle/position. I cut down the upper hose to move the tbob forward and then got new hose for the line to the head.

December 31st, 2014, 11:58 PM	#50
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	It's 2am Scott, isn't it time for bed or are you into the liquor cabinet? __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

July 19th, 2015, 02:57 PM	#61
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Update to this thread since there's a new T-bob unit out. The new T-bob version 3.0 is a little more readily integrated into your cooling system. I was able to ditch the stock thermostat housing completely. It's great. I did a little different than Exploring/Carolina. first thing was I turned the barbed bypass fitting around. Purpose here was that I wanted to be able to put a wrench on my engine mount without having to take the line off. I found that with the fitting oriented like he had it, I had to take the bypass hose off completely to do that. So far, no issues with it. Next, I ditched the stock housing. To do this cleanly, I had to do 2 things: get the temp sensor installed in the Tbob unit and get it to read so my temp gauge worked. Part one was easy. There's a plug in the T-bob unit that's the correct size and thread for your temp probe. The second part took some thinking. I wasn't getting correct voltage because there was no continuity through the housing and therefore I was unable to ground the temp probe. I solved this by running a tap through one of the T-bob housing cap bolt holes to clear off some anodizing and get metal contact. Then I extended the housing ground lead on the wiring harness and used a 2-prong connector and slid it under the housing bolt. Works like a charm now. Very pleased with my Thermobob setup. Bike comes right up to operating temp on the gauge in about a mile, choke has to be turned off as soon as I start moving, or else I get the telltale bog that says my choke is making my bike too rich. Temp needle sticks at 11:00 or so, only comes up when I'm at a stop light, regardless of how warm or cold it is outside. On that note, I have a new fan temp switch coming because my radiator fan doesn't come on, despite the fact that the whole system works right. but that's a different post for a different thread. oh well. Happy with my purchase!!
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

July 19th, 2015, 03:34 PM	#64
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	Yep, Blue Collar Bobbers. The Blue Collar Kit makes it easy on the Ninja 250. Built a 1980 Honda CX500D tracker and got parts from many sources. Just refined a 190F radiator fan switch installation (off the shelf parts) operating a Ducati fan for the CX. Bike originally from Honda with a direct drive fan. Complete project turned out nice. Bill is a great guy to deal with. Will probably buy a Thermo-Bob III for my Ninja 250 Cafe Racer project. Now I know why I was waiting! Will get back on the Ninja 250 this fall. It's going to be sweet! Thanks for posting!!!!
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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December 31st, 2014, 08:32 AM	#42
Chicagobob ninjette.org guru Name: Bob Location: Chicago Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B Posts: 315	Nice idea. Why not dispense with the stock thermostat housing altogether, and use a plastic Trail Tech insert for the temp sensor?

December 31st, 2014, 09:05 AM	#44
Chicagobob ninjette.org guru Name: Bob Location: Chicago Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B Posts: 315	It's an in-line plastic housing, shown in the KLR Thermo-bob review. It's available for several hose sizes. See http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gau...arts/7500-3052

December 31st, 2014, 10:13 AM	#45
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	Thanks for the info. Using the original temp gauge on the Cafe Racer. Their sender & coupling would be the easy way to go if compatible with the OEM gauge. Will check it out and post coolant hose mods & sender installation getting rid of the thermostat housing while using the Thermo-Bob unit. Probably modify water pump inlet pipe & reducing height of the radiator cap installation since the faring is removed. Working on replacing clutch basket on the Ninja today.

December 31st, 2014, 04:46 PM	#47
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	Appreciate the input. Installed the clutch basket today and prepping the clutch cover for paint. Removing the other side cover to clean & prep for paint, too. Installed speed metal bar end mirrors (temporarily) today and they look good. After I finish working on the engine cases, will get on the coolant system. Can't wait to work out this system. Enjoy working on projects! Happy New Year

December 31st, 2014, 11:28 PM	#48
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	What kind of paint and prep do you use for the case? That gets toasty.

January 1st, 2015, 06:26 AM	#52
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	I use Dupli-Color 500F Engine Primer & Paint rattle can.

January 1st, 2015, 07:51 AM	#55
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	Going with semi gloss black on my covers. Polished aluminum looks nice, too. Stripped & polished the forks on my CX500D Street Tracker, and they turned out nice. Time for a foothills twisty ride!

January 14th, 2015, 08:08 AM	#57
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	Ordered a 3/4" Bypass Tee (without brass barbed fitting) yesterday that's part of the Thermo-Bob kit to replace the original thermostat housing. It already has 1/4" pipe threads installed for the brass barbed fitting. Going to use a 1/4" pipe to 1/8" pipe bushing threaded directly into the 3/4" Bypass Tee for the original temp indicator sender to thread into. Found the OEM sender is 1/8" pipe thread. Working on other parts of the Cafe project right now, so will be a little while before posting photos of Thermo-Bob unit with bypass tee replacing thermostat housing installed. Believe I will need to connect a ground wire to the fitting to make the sending unit work. 3/4" Bypass Tee installed at the lower radiator outlet. Will use this fitting to replace the thermostat housing: Thermo-Bob & original thermostat housing plumbing: 1/4" to 1/8" pipe bushing will thread into Bypass Tee so OEM temp sender can thread into bushing:

July 19th, 2015, 03:11 PM	#62
exploring/carolina ninjette.org guru Name: Bill Location: NC Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282	That's a great solution. If I understand you correctly, the new Thermo-Bob unit has a port threaded for the 1/8NPT Temp sending unit? Nice upgrade. Have not worked on the Ninja project lately, so will post pics in a different project thread when completed. How the project looks for now:

July 19th, 2015, 03:21 PM	#63
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Yepp, that's correct. Comes with two holes in it. One hole has the small barb in it for the bypass line, the other hole has a plug in it. Pull the plug out and the temp probe threads right in. Use a little Swagelok SWAK (or other pipe sealant. I just used this because I could swipe a little from work) or teflon tape if you please and it seals in the threads without issue. Doing the Blue Collar bobbers retrofit, I assume? EDIT: one important thing to note is that the Thermobob 3 unit looks backwards from the previous housings. The cap on the housing faces the radiator, while the other end faces the back of the bike. This is backwards in appearance from previous thermobobs. Bill made sure that I knew this in an email. He's very helpful for tech support. A+ to him as well. He always emails that day, is helpful, and knows what he's talking about. Thought I would mention that.

August 13th, 2015, 01:22 PM	#66
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	iirc, you could use the stock hoses, but the bypass line was put at a funny angle/position. I cut down the upper hose to move the tbob forward and then got new hose for the line to the head.