The 'American Dream'?

[AMMOCAN]

Given our current economical and unemployment circumstances here in America and how it has or has not affected us all differently. I was wondering what the 'American Dream' means to you? Also, considering the circumstances we currently face here in America, do you believe the 'American Dream' is still obtainable? Why or why not?

[Domagoj]

I did not realize things are so bad. I am sorry to hear that.
I see you are troubled, from your posts before, and I hope you will find work soon. Don't give up, but don't be too picky either.

Here is how I see things. I don't live in America, but maybe you can compare it and get a broader view on things.

1. person of the opposite sex to share a life with
2. place to live, around 20m2 per person
3. car, perfectly described by original beetle concept
4. ninja 250r
5. a good school for your kids to go to
6. 2 family trips per year, to a nice place like Paris or Berlin
7. a job for both of you, which pays for all that, keeps you interested and somewhat busy, but doesn't take your free time away (workdays only, 9-10 hours max. including commute)

[TnNinjaGirl]

Stop watching tv and paying attention to the news. That way you don't have to hear other people tell you how bad your life is.

[road_rascal]

I'm very fortunate and thankful that I have a steady and secure job (20 years this week) and my wife has a great job. My daughter is healthy and finished her first year of college. I may not have a huge house, fancy cars or flashy gadgets but I have no reason to complain.

[bdavison]

Yeah, just close your eyes and cover your ears...then it will all go away.

Pffffft.

The economy is in the tank, unemployment is skyrocketing, and everyone is running around with their fingers in their ears, saying la la la la..i cant hear you.

These clowns we have running the nation are systematically tearing apart the american dream. That was their plan all along. If there is no hope, then they can make you do whatever they want for a penny...and youll do it, because you need the penny.

Small businesses cant afford to operate anymore. Theres little to no place to get small business loans, or credit. The taxes have exploded, and people with small businesses are closing their doors because they cant afford to operate anymore.

Ignoring it wont make it go away, and you cant replace the american dream with a new girlfriend or a trip to paris.

Weve got to get rid of Obama, progressives and socialists that are running this country into the ground. They really dont care what happens to this country, so long as you are on the bottom and they are on the top.

Sorry, but bush was great compared to the complete idiot we have now. Whats it gonna take to snap the obama zombies back into reality? I think we are going to have to slap the crap out of them to get them to take the fingers out of their ears first.

[LazinCajun]

I smell another flamethread....

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by miss_syn

This sounds like an essay question!

I don't believe in the American Dream perse, I think that the only things you get in life are the things you work incredibly hard for unless you're very lucky.

I don't think the American Dream is still obtainable. It seems like if you take one misstep in life the world doesn't trust you.

That is the "American Dream". Being able to work hard and achieve success. You have to learn from your "missteps" and never give up.

I started a business (while going to school) when interest rates were over 20% and the economy was in the tank (thank you Jimmy Carter) back in the late 70s. Obama seems to be just like Carter, maybe worse. He is smart (book smart) but doesn't have a clue how to run the country. He is a true " dreamer". I stuck with it through very tough times and ended up being very happy with the achievement and ended up retiring very early in life.

If you think life is so bad here, try going to another country and being successful. Why do you think people are coming to this country, by the thousands, to live?

There are many success stories, even in this economy. Research other's achievements. It might give you ideas. Be optimistic, always.

[bdavison]

The list of failures in regards to small businesses hasnt stopped...actually they have more planned to kill off whats left of the American dream.

First off, Obama and his cronies effectively killed off any loans from anywhere but the SBA. Its bad enough now, that the companies would rather shut down than get a loan they know they cant pay back.

Second, Obama wants to raise taxes yet again on corporations beginning next year. The tax hike will hit hundreds of thousands of small businesses with the top grab of FIFTY percent from these small businesses in increased taxes, and phased out exemptions. What do you think your employer will do when they have to hand over 50% of their profits to the government? They will either shut it down, or they will lay off as many as possible. In either case adding to the rapidly growing unemployment rate.

Third, on top of all this crap, Obamacare mandates that companies either pay for health insurance for 100 percent of their full-time employees or pay 6 percent of their total payroll into a federally designed fund.

Anyone that thinks these idiots are anything but a epic failure is delusional.

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by bdavison

The list of failures in regards to small businesses hasnt stopped...actually they have more planned to kill off whats left of the American dream.

First off, Obama and his cronies effectively killed off any loans from anywhere but the SBA. Its bad enough now, that the companies would rather shut down than get a loan they know they cant pay back.

Second, Obama wants to raise taxes yet again on corporations beginning next year. The tax hike will hit hundreds of thousands of small businesses with the top grab of FIFTY percent from these small businesses in increased taxes, and phased out exemptions. What do you think your employer will do when they have to hand over 50% of their profits to the government? They will either shut it down, or they will lay off as many as possible. In either case adding to the rapidly growing unemployment rate.

Third, on top of all this crap, Obamacare mandates that companies either pay for health insurance for 100 percent of their full-time employees or pay 6 percent of their total payroll into a federally designed fund.

Anyone that thinks these idiots are anything but a epic failure is delusional.

Relax Bryan,

Have some faith in the American people. As long as the President doesnt alter course from now till fall of 2012, the people will correct the situation. There was an interesting correlation between Obama's latest Gallup numbers and that of Michael Dukakis on election day 1988:



So the point is, the American people arent stupid and no matter what the media effetes in NYC and DC try to do in order to run interference for the current administration, in today's technological age, they no longer have a stranglehold on information flow.

Anyway, back on to the topic. I certainly don't beleive the American Dream is dead. The ideals of this Nation are greater than any one group of people, or any single Presidential Admininstration. Approaches espoused by socialists and other miscreants are morally bankrupt and continually proven wrong by both history and economic reality. As long as Americans believe in the ideals that made this country great: those of liberty, individual responsiblity, discipline, character, and integrity, the U.S. will be fine, albeit with ups and downs. I still see plenty of people in the country who have those ideals coursing through their veins.

[TnNinjaGirl]

Read the Constitution. It isn't only our right but our DUTY to remove government officials who we see as a failure to the system. So, why hasn't this happened if people are upset?

Head in the sand? I think not. There is a difference between being spoon fed bulls*** news stories about how miserable everyone must be and finding out factual information for yourself.

[FrugalNinja250]

I think at this stage, and for the foreseeable future, the American Dream will be to find a job that pays rent and puts enough food on the table to prevent starvation. Anything else is bonus, like a nice car (or bike), home ownership, college for the kids, health care, etc.

[onetruevibe]

I love threads like this...I can get my Ninjette fix while catching up on the latest Fox News headlines at the same time

[AMMOCAN]

I whole heartedly agree with what bdavison has posted. It is quite disturbing to see that some of you are quite naive and delusional when it comes to what is going on with our country right now. What is even more troubling is that some of you think that if you close your eyes and ears that it will all go away. You know that is the type of behavior that has helped create the mess that we are in. OPEN your EYES and EARS people! Awake from your comatose delusion and start realizing the reality we as 'Americans' are facing.

President Obama hasn't 'Changed' one thing! In fact he has done nothing, but make things worst! He took over office in Jan. 2009, when it is reported that 11 million Americans were unemployed. As of last month, there is currently 14 million Americans unemployed with an estimated of 10 million+ Americans that are only working part-time and most likely barely making ends meet every month if at all (Bureau of Labor Statistics).

Wether you want to believe that our country is in dire trouble or not is on you, but the facts are the facts and I know this first hand because not only have I personally been a statistic of these facts, but I have family and friends that are as well!

As pointed out earlier by bdavison, Obama instead of creating jobs and stimulating business growth has been killing it with his own selfish agenda and policies. No company/business here in America is going to spend the money to hire more people or create more jobs when there simply isn't any demand or incentive to. Our economy has been struggling for so long, that companies/businesses have been able to find ways to stay alive and sufficient with less. They also have been able to take advantage of the vastly flooded unemployment market by hiring well experienced employees for less, thus driving out any entry level candidates. They have also even been so cutthroat in their employment practices that they have turned employees onto each other and have even gave employees, who have been with them a substantial amount of time, an ultimatum of either take a pay-cut and even possibly less hours or be without a job altogether.

How do I know this? Well, besides it being reported by Americans everyday, it has happened to my own family members and close friends. For example, I have an Aunt who works in the corporate office for a very popular grocery store here on the west coast. She has been with this company for close to 20 years now and not only has she had to take a pay-cut, but she hasn't even received a raise since then. That is just one example of many. For me personally, well I believe most of you are aware of my situation and I am not the only member that has or is going through the same thing that the rest of the 14 million+ Americans are going through.

Could things be worst? Could we have the same problems plus more as in what other countries are facing? Of course things could be worst, they could always be worst even for the most troubled countries of this world. Which brings me to the point that by simply pointing that out does nothing to resolve or change the situation. If nothing else, that type of attitude just adds to the problem and makes things worst, and before you know it things will become worst because know one seems to want to do anything or take responsibility. How bad do things need to get before you wake up from your comatose delusion and start doing your part?

Right now there is no 'American Dream'! Everyday Americans are losing or have lost their homes, businesses, careers, life savings, retirement, etc. There are no opportunities for employment right now for the millions gaining a higher education in the vast majority of majors being offered today. The 'American Dream' is our national ethos in which is based on having freedom that includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. As defined by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth. This idea of the 'American Dream' is the foundation of our Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I ask you, with millions of people losing what they have worked so hard for everyday and with so many more working hard towards achieving a higher education for an opportunity that no longer exist, where is the 'American Dream' in that?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by bdavison

First off, Obama and his cronies effectively killed off any loans from anywhere but the SBA.

Second, Obama wants to raise taxes yet again on corporations beginning next year.

Anyone that thinks these idiots are anything but a epic failure is delusional.

Obama is a puppet. There are ones above him who make decisions for him. The left/right paradigm is a divide and conquer strategy put in place by the elite who really run our country/world. Fox news (or any national media affiliate) is not fair and balanced, and anyone who believes they can learn what's really going on in our world simply from watching the evening news has quite a bit of research to do themselves. Just my .

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by ally99

Obama is a puppet. There are ones above him who make decisions for him. The left/right paradigm is a divide and conquer strategy put in place by the elite who really run our country/world. Fox news (or any national media affiliate) is not fair and balanced, and anyone who believes they can learn what's really going on in our world simply from watching the evening news has quite a bit of research to do themselves. Just my .

Read my mind!

Wait!.. you didn't read anything else in there did ya?

[Alex]

You're embarassing yourselves, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but when people state vehemently that anyone who disagrees with them is delusional (on politics? really?), this thread goes down the same mineshaft that each and every prior one did.

I hate anti-Obama threads. I hate pro-Obama threads. I hate whining threads. I hate misguided threads where in a single post a user is whining about the government doing too much and too little at the same time, being both too large and too small. Providing too much support (darned stimulus was too big and wasted taxpayer money!) Providing too little support (darned government isn't giving enough cheap loans to help business!)

We can't change the world here, but we can be polite to eachother. I'm hesitant to do what so many other forums have by banning political rants for the sake of just getting along, but this really gets tiresome, folks.

(edit: clearly there were some posts in between me starting to type and hitting submit; sorry for the delay)

[Snake]

I can tell this thread is going to get very interesting.

[Penguin250]

I typically avoid posts like this, and after typing out like three or four paragraphs full of random thoughts that I couldn't tie together, I remember why. My brain and my fingers don't get along on paper/keyboard/computer screen. It made no sense whatsoever..

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I think at this stage, and for the foreseeable future, the American Dream will be to find a job that pays rent and puts enough food on the table to prevent starvation. Anything else is bonus, like a nice car (or bike), home ownership, college for the kids, health care, etc.

This. Period.

And I want to know why it's always THE American Dream. It should be YOUR American Dream. Seriously. The dream might not be the same for everyone.

[CynicalC]

I didn't read this thread through but I can tell it's a shitfest. So this is in reply to the OP alone.

"And when the answer that you want is in the question that you state"

I think you unwittingly answered your own question. It's very bad to think of the American Dream as something that is "obtainable". There are very few people in this country who aren't "living the American dream" - that is, having your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That attitude is a HUGE problem with this country right now. This generation of people expects the world handed to them on a platter. They want to graduate college, walk into a 6 digit job, buy a house (a new one of course, in the nice part of town),and live the easy life.

My advice: (not to you, but in general) Lower your expectations. Be honest with yourself about what you're going to achieve in your life and set reasonable goals for yourself. Don't compare your life to others or what you see on tv or the internet. Do the things that make you happy. Learn to be happy living with what you have. And so on...

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I think at this stage, and for the foreseeable future, the American Dream will be to find a job that pays rent and puts enough food on the table to prevent starvation. Anything else is bonus, like a nice car (or bike), home ownership, college for the kids, health care, etc.

You say "at this stage" like we are doing so bad all of the sudden. This has ALWAYS been the dream. Anything more has always been a bonus.

Another thing I recommend - blinders. The "news" is a joke. Seriously, everything about it. People read in the news that unemployment is higher now than during the depression. The difference?

Unemployment then: Leave your family in search of work. Possibly starve to death.

Unemployment now: Sit at home all day in your underwear. Watch family guy while browsing job postings online. Post on forums.

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I didn't read this thread through but I can tell it's a shitfest. So this is in reply to the OP alone.

"And when the answer that you want is in the question that you state"

I think you unwittingly answered your own question. It's very bad to think of the American Dream as something that is "obtainable". There are very few people in this country who aren't "living the American dream" - that is, having your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That attitude is a HUGE problem with this country right now. This generation of people expects the world handed to them on a platter. They want to graduate college, walk into a 6 digit job, buy a house (a new one of course, in the nice part of town),and live the easy life.

My advice: (not to you, but in general) Lower your expectations. Be honest with yourself about what you're going to achieve in your life and set reasonable goals for yourself. Don't compare your life to others or what you see on tv or the internet. Do the things that make you happy. Learn to be happy living with what you have. And so on...

Absolutely right on!

There is no guarantees and nobody owes you ****. If you want a guaranteed mediocre subsistence, there are many options in Europe and elsewhere in the world where you can trade your freedom for a State provided security blanket. In the U.S., you have the opportunity to strive, struggle, and ACHIEVE. You may not become a captain of industry, but ultimately the improvement of your quality of life is up to you.

I am not a fan of the current Administration and I dont agree with with many things they stand for, but as I said before, neither Obama or his czars,or anyone else can undermine what makes America great. Quite obviously, we are in a down period right now economically, but we WILL rebound over the course of time.

[Alex]

This made me chuckle, thx!

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Unemployment now: Sit at home all day in your underwear. Watch family guy while browsing job postings online. Post on forums.

Although, another difference in today's modern economy:

Working from home: Sit at home all day in your underwear. Watch family guy while browsing job postings online tapping away on a work laptop. Post on forums.

[ducducgooseit]

There is nothing like showing the OP's post to a person in their eighties (or older). The reactions range from eye-rolling to a burst of laughter to "why are you wasting MY time with this". It's great, good for a laugh and yet another way www.ninjette.org contributes to a happy day.

[Liber]

Some people would say I'm living the 'American Dream'.

-I'm living in relatively cheap part of the country to live in.
-I make a good salary for my age and I've made some good decisions with my money and education.
-I'm financially secure and have a bright future ahead of me.
-There are a lot of other things I'm fortunate to have, but I'm not without my own problems.

Funny thing is, I would give a lot of it up in order to have someone worth sharing my life with. Sometimes, life gets pretty lonely. All in due time, I guess.

Point is, there is no one definition of 'The American Dream'. The Founders recognized this as 'The Pursuit of Happiness'. My happiness is different from everyone else's and my right to pursue that happiness is enshrined in the Constitution.

This thread shouldn't be a flame war, as much as it should be about sharing your goals and dreams with others.

[leia]

Originally Posted by Liber

Some people would say I'm living the 'American Dream'.

-I'm living in relatively cheap part of the country to live in.
-I make a good salary for my age and I've made some good decisions with my money and education.
-I'm financially secure and have a bright future ahead of me.
-There are a lot of other things I'm fortunate to have, but I'm not without my own problems.

Funny thing is, I would give a lot of it up in order to have someone worth sharing my life with. Sometimes, life gets pretty lonely. All in due time, I guess.

Point is, there is no one definition of 'The American Dream'. The Founders recognized this as 'The Pursuit of Happiness'. My happiness is different from everyone else's and my right to pursue that happiness is enshrined in the Constitution.

This thread shouldn't be a flame war, as much as it should be about sharing your goals and dreams with others.

Congrats! And you're there because you made deliberate decisions to set yourself up financially, it wasn't dumb luck or "following your dreams" while being blind to reality.

I'm more or less same, bought a house w/ my bf 20% down on track to be fully owned in less than 9 yrs. (With paperwork to ensure that no one gets financially screwed if things go bad)
Went to a good state school for a marketable degree. Have decent job.
Not sure what the future brings, my company did a lot of layoffs. But I'm confident that I'll be okay because of my savings and job skills and not being too proud to take a retail/service job if needed.
We each have 2 cars and a bike. We aren't driving new Porsches or anything, but we have our toys. Only one not owned in full is my Miata (which would be sold immediately if I lost my job).

Why is this? I work my ass off - in school, at work, on my house, on my vehicles. I don't buy things I can't afford or feel that I'm entitled or anything or too good for anything.

Though I feel so distant from most of my friends and peers who seem to have a sense of entitlement or play loan games so they can "afford" things.

[Snake]

Well said Liber. I think you hit the nail on the head.

[TnNinjaGirl]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I didn't read this thread through but I can tell it's a shitfest. So this is in reply to the OP alone.

"And when the answer that you want is in the question that you state"

I think you unwittingly answered your own question. It's very bad to think of the American Dream as something that is "obtainable". There are very few people in this country who aren't "living the American dream" - that is, having your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That attitude is a HUGE problem with this country right now. This generation of people expects the world handed to them on a platter. They want to graduate college, walk into a 6 digit job, buy a house (a new one of course, in the nice part of town),and live the easy life.

My advice: (not to you, but in general) Lower your expectations. Be honest with yourself about what you're going to achieve in your life and set reasonable goals for yourself. Don't compare your life to others or what you see on tv or the internet. Do the things that make you happy. Learn to be happy living with what you have. And so on...

You make very good points.

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I think you unwittingly answered your own question. It's very bad to think of the American Dream as something that is "obtainable". There are very few people in this country who aren't "living the American dream" - that is, having your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That attitude is a HUGE problem with this country right now. This generation of people expects the world handed to them on a platter. They want to graduate college, walk into a 6 digit job, buy a house (a new one of course, in the nice part of town),and live the easy life.

My advice: (not to you, but in general) Lower your expectations. Be honest with yourself about what you're going to achieve in your life and set reasonable goals for yourself. Don't compare your life to others or what you see on tv or the internet. Do the things that make you happy. Learn to be happy living with what you have. And so on...

The "American Dream" is just that, a dream. It is up to each individual to do as he/she sees fit in reaching whatever his/her dream is. The only thing ever promised us was the pursuit of happiness. It was never guaranteed.

I guess it's easy for me to say that, as I type this from a fairly nice gaming PC, one of three my wife and I own. My wife and I both own motorcycles and my daughter has a dirt bike. We have a nice car, a small but nice house with a newly poured driveway. I think my wife and I are living the "American Dream". I personally feel like I have everything that I have ever wanted out of life. Despite me making less money now than I ever have, and despite cost-of-living starting to spiral out of control.

I learned a long time ago that setting goals that are too defined is not good. If for no other reason than life has a way of kicking you in your ass after you have slipped and fallen in the mud. When something like that happens, it makes you feel like your entire world has just fallen apart. It is much better to make broader goals so that if life does get in the way, you aren't stressing because you didn't do X goal in Y years.

[bdavison]

What about the people that came here looking to better themselves, working hard, and supporting their families, putting food on their table who are now unemployed and cant find work because our "pursuit of happiness" was snatched away from them by the very people that were hired to protect it.

What about the small business owner that started a company from scratch, and poured everything they had into it, working long hard hours making it a success...only to have it usurped by a government that thinks his money should go to the bum that hasnt lifted a finger in their entire life.

What about the kid in diapers, who's parents worked hard to give them a better life than they did, only to realize that the government has already put their child in debt.

There are so many that have the blinders on, and just dont get it. Our country is bankrupt, the bank account is empty, and the bills are stuffing the mailbox, and while the house of America is being threatened with foreclosure, our government just keeps swiping the charge card. Its only a matter of time before that card comes back "declined".

There has never been a single country in the history of the world that has ever spent itself out of debt.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Read my mind!

Wait!.. you didn't read anything else in there did ya?

Guess you'll never know!

[Xoulrath]

Bryan, I don't disagree with you. I think the state of the economy, for some people, is beyond horrible. I think what the current administration is doing, and a large portion of what the previous administration did, has definitely weakened the country. But at the same time, I remember hearing about the awful job Carter did, and how everything was supposed to go to crap after that.

What happened? It eventually got better. Life is cyclical, and while it seems like we will never get back to where we were economically, eventually everything will start to get better. Maybe it won't get to the point of free credit for all and living large off of refinancing, but that was a large part of what got the country into this mess in the first place. I personally believe that the country will get better and that we will hopefully learn (at least a little) from this experience.

[bdavison]

It got better after Carter, because of Reagan.
I dont know how many of you were around during Carter's reign...but for those of us that remember it. Obama is well on his way to making Carter look like a saint.

[AMMOCAN]

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by bdavison

What about the people that came here looking to better themselves, working hard, and supporting their families, putting food on their table who are now unemployed and cant find work because our "pursuit of happiness" was snatched away from them by the very people that were hired to protect it.

What about the small business owner that started a company from scratch, and poured everything they had into it, working long hard hours making it a success...only to have it usurped by a government that thinks his money should go to the bum that hasnt lifted a finger in their entire life.

What about the kid in diapers, who's parents worked hard to give them a better life than they did, only to realize that the government has already put their child in debt.

There are so many that have the blinders on, and just dont get it. Our country is bankrupt, the bank account is empty, and the bills are stuffing the mailbox, and while the house of America is being threatened with foreclosure, our government just keeps swiping the charge card. Its only a matter of time before that card comes back "declined".

There has never been a single country in the history of the world that has ever spent itself out of debt.

I dare you to connect the dots between any of this crap you spew and real life. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. You cram your head full of these terrible facts and numbers. The economic crisis, bankruptcy, billions and trillions of dollars of debt. You are the embodiment of today's news media. Tell me how it affects a single one of us in a tangible way.

[bdavison]

CynicalC, If you cant see how it affects you, then you aren't paying attention.

Here are a few examples to help clear it up for you.

Take a look at your property taxes at the end of this year. Im betting they went up substantially. This is of course assuming you actually own a home.

Take a look at your property value. When was the last time you had an appraisal? If you've bought your home in the last 10 years, could you even get what you payed for it out of it?

If you actually have a job, consider yourself lucky. There are many that dont. Can you not "connect the dots" to figure out that the reason our unemployment rates are so high is due to the failed economy.

Have you tried to get a small business loan lately? Have you tried to get any loan lately?

Have you checked the intrest rates on your investments? Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds, IRA's? Retirement savings?

[AMMOCAN]

Again, I agree with bdavison, as he continues to hit it right on the nail.

Now, I don't think this thread is a ****-fest and I never intended it to be. However, knowing the facts that we as Americans are facing right and how everyones perception of the 'American Dream' differs I simply wanted to hear from the members here in regards to if they believe their 'American Dream' is still obtainable. Of course the answer to that question will differ, as much as the answer to what the 'American Dream' means to you because everyone has different opinions and has been affected or not affected differently by the continued trouble we are facing here in America.

Most of you continue to think that the facts about how bad our economy and unemployment is and continues to get is just some sort of media conspiracy. However, if you would just open your eyes and take a step back from the comfort of your own security and look at some of the things bdavison has mentioned that you will see that the problems we are facing right now in America is in fact a reality. Regardless if you want to admit it or not it is affecting all of us. Unfortunately, it is affecting well over 24 million plus Americans more than the rest, but never the less the affects are all around us if you would just open your eyes.

What does this have to do with the 'American Dream'? Well, it has everything to do with the American Dream. As stated before America makes no guarantees in granting anyone success thus they are not owed anything. However, what it does guarantee is that an individual regardless of social class, sex, race, or religion have the right to pursue their happiness. Again, this pursuit of happiness will be different for everyone.

However, for at least 24 million plus Americans the pursuit of happiness has been ripped away from them. These Americans have lost their jobs, their homes, their businesses, their possessions, their health, etc. to only have it replaced with an insane amount of debt and a struggle to just try to survive. The economy is weak and there are no incentives/demand for businesses/companies to create new jobs or higher new employees.

If you find yourself employed and fulfilling your own 'American Dream'/Pursuit to happiness then consider yourself lucky and fortunate because there are Americans who have had this taken from them and those who have had it shut in their face. Again, no one is guaranteed anything in this world. However, they are and should be guaranteed the pursuit of happiness, which for some includes owning their own business, home, having a job, or simply the means to pay their bills and put food on the table, etc. Right now, the PURSUIT to do this, the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS simply isn't a reality for these Americans.

I don't need the media or a politician to tell me what to think in regards to this issue because it has happened to some my family members, my friends, and is now happening to me and the more I reach out and speak to people about it I find myself coming across more and more people each day who are either going through the same thing or who know someone that is. This is reality, this is right outside your door step.

At this point, no one in this position has high expectations, as they simply just want the ability to survive. Unfortunately, that now has become their 'American Dream', TO SURVIVE. Is that a pursuit of happiness? No it isn't because there is no happiness in just trying to survive. There is no happiness in not knowing when your next meal will be, or where you will sleep at night, or when you will be able to get a job. There is no happiness in worrying that if and when you do get a job how will you ever be able to pay back all the debt you now owe, or get back on your feet now that you have no credit and are so in debt. These are real people with real problems that will not go away by simply ignoring it/them.

Can this be compared to the 'Great Depression' of 1929? No it can't because things today are different than they were back then. However, there are distinct similarities that can be seen between the hardship and affects it has had on the Americans that went through it 1929 and who are going through it now. Yes, a big difference between then and now is that today Americans look for work through the use of the internet instead of in person. However, that isn't the fault of the American looking for work. I know this personally because I have personally tried going out in person to get a job only to be referred to go online. In the world we live in today our employment process has become so impersonal. What is worst is that because of this highly impersonal and mundane employment process in a weak economy where companies/businesses are taking advantage of the flooded unemployment market and have no incentives to create jobs or hire new employees it is even more difficult today to get a job than it was back in 1929.

Again, it is your American 'God' given right to not agree to anything that I have said. However, I am a man of principle and I speak the truth based on my own experiences and for some one to say that our country isn't messed up is just plain ignorant. I understand that for the most part no one truly really knows anyone here, but feel free to check out my website @ Creative Desire where you can see what others, who know me, have to say about me and my character.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself, which is why I wanted to hear what others view on the 'American Dream' is and if they felt it was still obtainable considering the crisis America is facing. There is no reason for this to become personal or to be offensive to anyone, as you simply have the choice to read it or not to read it and then you have the choice to respond or not respond. That is after all one of the things that makes America 'America'.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by bdavison

CynicalC, If you cant see how it affects you, then you aren't paying attention.

Here are a few examples to help clear it up for you.

Take a look at your property taxes at the end of this year. Im betting they went up substantially. This is of course assuming you actually own a home.

Take a look at your property value. When was the last time you had an appraisal? If you've bought your home in the last 10 years, could you even get what you payed for it out of it?

If you actually have a job, consider yourself lucky. There are many that dont. Can you not "connect the dots" to figure out that the reason our unemployment rates are so high is due to the failed economy.

Have you tried to get a small business loan lately? Have you tried to get any loan lately?

Have you checked the intrest rates on your investments? Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds, IRA's? Retirement savings?

Maybe nobody told you but the two certainties in life are death and taxes. Taxes go up. Taxes go down. You're kidding yourself if you think we have - or have ever had any control over that. It's part of life. Deal with it.

Why is property value a problem? It's a GREAT time to buy. Property values rise and fall. They were hugely inflated and now they're back down into reality. It was a seller's market for a long time, now it's a buyer's market. Maybe people will learn to buy a house, live it and be happy. You know people used to inherit their houses, and it could take decades before they were able to buy their own. (BTW if you didn't see that bubble about to burst, you shouldn't be flipping property)

I do have a job, and there are plenty of jobs available. The problem is people overvaluing themselves. Oh and people getting degrees in useless **** then complaining when there aren't enough jobs in their specific (useless) field. Man, who would have thought that degree in "art" wasn't gonna get you anywhere in life? Oh wait, anyone could have, and probably DID tell you that. Just saying, I don't know any engineers who are out of work.

The rest is more directly related to personal financial responsibility. You control your own life and blaming everything on the gub'mint is a bitch move. Take some responsibility. As a matter of fact, my 401k has recovered quite nicely from the $20k hit I took in 2008. And I haven't even touched it. I'm not gonna go on about this but people need to realize banking is a business. Everyone likes to spend money they don't have and then complain about the bill they get stuck with. Shoot me if you ever see me shed a tear for them.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Maybe nobody told you but the two certainties in life are death and taxes. Taxes go up. Taxes go down. You're kidding yourself if you think we have - or have ever had any control over that. It's part of life. Deal with it.

I agree...taxes do change from time to time. However...

I recieved my estimated property tax for this year. The value that they assigned to my home is LESS than it was last year. Which means they devalued my home. The taxes went UP by $300 dollars.
This is not a statistically trend change in the taxes...its insanity.

Do you understand why the taxes went up, even though the value of the property went down. Its because the states are rapidly going bankrupt. They need money. So re-rating your taxes is one way they can get funds.

Why is property value a problem? It's a GREAT time to buy. Property values rise and fall. They were hugely inflated and now they're back down into reality. It was a seller's market for a long time, now it's a buyer's market. Maybe people will learn to buy a house, live it and be happy. You know people used to inherit their houses, and it could take decades before they were able to buy their own. (BTW if you didn't see that bubble about to burst, you shouldn't be flipping property)

When you purchase a house, you are making an investment. Regardless of if you plan to stay there for 5 years, or your entire life, you expect that the value of that investment will increase over time...not decrease. Nearly everyone that purchased a house in the last 10 years, will see that their appraised value is now LOWER than what they actually payed for the home. They cant even break even. This hurts the military the most, because they regularly have to relocate. If they sell the house, they sell at a loss, IF they can sell at all (home loans arent as easy to get as they were before). So now, not only do they have to pay the rest of the loan on that property, but they also still have to go get another house. The banking industry has gotten much more picky about home loans now. So they might not even be able to get a loan. On top of that, if they choose to rent instead, rent prices have skyrocketed as well.

Perhaps you plan to stay there for a while and want to do some home improvements. So you try to go get a home improvement loan. Once again the banks are pinching pennies too. So since your property is worth less than you payed for it, dont expect the bank to give you much. If they give you anything at all.

Thats great if your mommy and daddy left you a house, but dont think for a moment that your home's value doesnt affect you financially.

I do have a job, and there are plenty of jobs available. The problem is people overvaluing themselves. Oh and people getting degrees in useless **** then complaining when there aren't enough jobs in their specific (useless) field. Man, who would have thought that degree in "art" wasn't gonna get you anywhere in life? Oh wait, anyone could have, and probably DID tell you that. Just saying, I don't know any engineers who are out of work.

Are you kidding. You really think there are plenty of jobs. What are you smoking? I know people here that have been looking for work for over a year.
Two are aeronautical engineers, three are trade professionals, two are IT professionals. I am a SME in telecommunications, and have been for 20 years, not a "art" student. If my company was to fail today, it would be EXTREMELY difficult to find another job even with my extensive experience and education. I continue to submit resume's to other companies, just to keep my options open. I used to get offers all the time. Ive havent had ONE call in a year. Nobody is hiring.

The rest is more directly related to personal financial responsibility. You control your own life and blaming everything on the gub'mint is a bitch move. Take some responsibility. As a matter of fact, my 401k has recovered quite nicely from the $20k hit I took in 2008. And I haven't even touched it. I'm not gonna go on about this but people need to realize banking is a business. Everyone likes to spend money they don't have and then complain about the bill they get stuck with. Shoot me if you ever see me shed a tear for them.

You still dont get it. Who sets the interest rates? You can google it if you want to. So how can you say that blaming the government is a "bitch" move, when they ARE the ones responsible.
You say its all personal financial responsibility. Well, if I could set my own interest rates, I would, and so would the other millions of investors around the nation. Do you understand devaluation?

Lets give you an example to make it simpler to understand.

The government prints one dollar. Its worth one dollar in purchasing power. You earn that dollar from your employer, you now have a dollar. You take that dollar and invest it into a investment that gives you back interest on it over time.

The government prints another dollar. Now there are two dollars. Your dollar isnt worth a dollar anymore, now its only worth 50 cents in purchasing power, because now there are two of them on the market. Also, your investment is earning less now too because they devalued your investment by printing the second dollar.

The government prints yet another dollar. Now there are three dollars. Your dollar isnt worth 50 cents in purchasing power anymore...it just got cut into a third. On top of that, the fed drops the interest rate on your investment, so now you are earning even less on your investment.

This is PRECISELY what our government has done. They have activated the printing presses, kicking out more paper, and devaluing the dollar. They killed the interest rates on your investments. And then spent money like it was going out of style to the tune of 14 trillion bucks, and then passed that debt off to you the taxpayer. You do understand that the american public WILL have to pay off that debt. You, your kids, your kid's kids.

Your idiot leaders want you to think that if they fire up the printing presses, that will take care of the debt...what they've effectively done is make it even harder to pay off, because for every piece of paper that comes off the press...it devalues all the others.

So again...please explain how this economic failure is NOT the government's fault?

Its really sad that you and many others have been tricked into thinking that their elected politicians can do no wrong, and just want to let them handle everything.

The responsibility for this economic mess lies 100% undeniably in the hands of the US government. They set the interest rates, They are spending the taxpayer money. They botched up social security, medicade, and healthcare. They forced banks to give out garbage home loans in the housing crash....on and on it goes.

Its nothing short of a crime what they have done.

["A"]

US Government no longer belong to its people, it's been controlled by corporations for a long time.

You think this is the 'Land of the Free'? far from it.
Take some time and watch the following videos:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by bdavison

You still dont get it. Who sets the interest rates? You can google it if you want to. So how can you say that blaming the government is a "bitch" move, when they ARE the ones responsible.
You say its all personal financial responsibility. Well, if I could set my own interest rates, I would, and so would the other millions of investors around the nation. Do you understand devaluation?

...snipped...

The first part of your post starts out lucid, but it quickly goes off the rails. Especially when you posit that the current administration has absolutely anything to do with what you are railing against.

First - there is no big dial at the white house (or in congress, or within the fed reserve, or any other large entity with an effect on the economy), where someone points the dial at good economy or bad economy. There are a couple levers that each of them have, but each and every one of them has consequences to adjusting in any direction. Anybody who believes that any elected (or unelected) official is excited about presiding over a crappy economy is a fool. Leaders during bad economic times have short tenures. Leaders during strong economic times have a chance at longer tenures. It's just the way things work. The disconnect is when the problems of today that took a long period to come to pass, are landed at the feet of the poor sap(s) now charged with cleaning up the mess.

The monetary policy of the past 10+ years (not the 2 years that those with little insight or perspective point to) kept the prime interest rates *too low* to keep consumer spending up and support a gradually weakening economy. Interest rates haven't been high in many, many years, and the key rate hovered close to nothing for a very long time. This propped up cheap loans, encouraged consumers to continually borrow against their paper profits in home values that were never going to be sustainable.

But raising the rates has its own troubles, adding to the money supply has its own troubles, working to lower the trade gap has its own troubles, working with the tax rates has its own troubles, supporting unemployment vs tax incentives for hiring has its own troubles. None of this is easy. There is no straightforward answer, and anyone who is trying to sell you one is taking you for a fool.

Originally Posted by bdavison

The responsibility for this economic mess lies 100% undeniably in the hands of the US government. They set the interest rates, (1) They are spending the taxpayer money. They botched up (2) social security, (3) medicade, and (4) healthcare. (5)They forced banks to give out garbage home loans in the housing crash....on and on it goes.

OK, I'll play along, and I've even numbered them for you. Name 1 actual policy or piece of legislation that you can tie to the current administration that did what you suggest. Here's my list:

(1) Sure, but seeing how the previous administration managed to turn a surplus into the largest deficit the US had ever seen in only two terms, clearly there are no winners here. In a bad economy, it's hard to make ends meet, and that includes government.

(2) Really? Who did? The creation of it was a problem? The lack of tying it to longer lifetimes? The lack of tying it GDP or any other benchmark? The lack of truly setting money aside rather than IOU's of sorts for decades? This is a generational problem that will take many years to sort out.

(3) Really? What exactly has been more screwed up in Medicaid now than it ever has been before? Waste is down, bureaucracy is down, but costs continue to go up. Which leads right to....

(4) Healthcare. This is the point where anyone with a brain can be distinguished from one instead with unwavering ideological blinders. The Healthcare system continues to get more expensive, continues to become harder for those other than the wealthy to find affordable care, and the increases in cost of services continue to go up at double-digit percentages for year after year (for 15+ years now). Everyone sees how much of the government spending is allocated for this. Everyone sees how much their own premiums are going up for this. Yet any perceived change in the status quo to deal with the cost issue is seen as an attack on what suddenly people are so happy with. But most importantly, as almost *none* of the reforms have come to pass as of June 2011, blaming anything in the economy to the attempted healthcare reform is patently ludicrous. If anything, the failure to do something sooner is causing a drag on investment. The attacks on "Obama-Care" are another way to stir up anger against some bogeyman that doesn't exist, it has the same intellectual accuracy as the fight over non-existent death panels.

(5) This is the biggest pile of crap. It is discredited over and over again, yet the same factually-challenged biased blogs and portions of the media repeat it as if saying anything often enough makes it true. Every repub's favorite punching bag is the Community Reinvestment Act, as it allows them to bring up the race card and separate their political base from the poor evil "other folks" who are messing up the system by being granted credit they don't deserve. It's such a great political ploy, that any actual research to find out whether the Act truly did make for more or less risky loans, or whether banks became truly more or less profitable while meeting CRA obligations, is hidden away and ignored. Which makes sense, as the truth gets in the way of a great soundbite.

http://www.frbsf.org/publications/co...siting_cra.pdf

Evidence on the CRA and the Subprime Crisis
Over the years, the Federal Reserve has prepared two reports for the Congress that provide information on the performance of lending to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods—populations that are the focus of the CRA.3 These studies found that lending to lower-income individuals and communities has been nearly as profitable and performed similarly to other types of lending done by CRA-covered institutions. Thus, the long-term evidence shows that the CRA has not pushed banks into extending loans that perform out of line with their traditional businesses. Rather, the law has encouraged banks to be aware of lending opportunities in all segments of their local communities as well as to learn how to undertake such lending in a safe and sound manner.
Recently, Federal Reserve staff has undertaken more specific analysis focusing on the potential relationship between the CRA and the current subprime crisis. This analysis was performed for the purpose of assessing claims that the CRA was a principal cause of the current mortgage market difficulties. For this analysis, the staff examined lending activity covering the period that corresponds to the height of the subprime boom.
The research focused on two basic questions. First, we asked what share of originations for subprime loans is related to the CRA. The potential role of the CRA in the subprime crisis could either be large or small, depending on the answer to this question. We found that the loans that are the focus of the CRA represent a very small portion of the subprime lending market, casting considerable doubt on the potential contribution that the law could have made to the subprime mortgage crisis.
Second, we asked how CRA-related subprime loans performed relative to other loans. Once again, the potential role of the CRA could be large or small, depending on the answer to this question. We found that delinquency rates were high in all neighborhood income groups, and that CRA-related subprime loans performed in a comparable manner to other subprime loans; as such, differences in performance between CRA-related subprime lending and other subprime lending cannot lie at the root of recent market turmoil.
In analyzing the available data, we focused on two distinct metrics: loan origination activity and loan performance. With respect to the first question concerning loan originations, we wanted to know which types of lending institutions made higher-priced loans, to whom those loans were made, and in what types of neighborhoods the loans were extended. This analysis allowed us to determine what fraction of subprime lending could be related to the CRA.
Our analysis of the loan data found that about 60 percent of higher-priced loan originations went to middle- or higher-income borrowers or neighborhoods. Such borrowers are not the populations targeted by the CRA. In addition, more than 20 percent of the higher-priced loans were extended to lower-income borrowers or borrowers in lower-income areas by independent nonbank institutions—that is, institutions not covered by the CRA.
Putting together these facts provides a striking result: Only six percent of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes. This result undermines the assertion by critics of the potential for a substantial role for the CRA in the subprime crisis. In other words, the very small share of all higher-priced loan originations that can reasonably be attributed to the CRA makes it hard to imagine how this law could have contributed in any meaningful way to the current subprime crisis.

Ranting about how bad things are is one thing. It's annoying and tiresome, but it's intellectually supportable. When assigning blame for the true causes of whatever one is ranting about, if every answer is "we need to vote 'dem bums out, because my bums knows how to fix it", we are one step closer to a country of ignorant fools. At the very least, on this particular website on this particular part of the internet, if one is to go on a political rant, at least reference a particular piece of legislation, a policy, a vote, a "anything" that actually happened so there's something to actually talk about rather than the same useless dreck that it repeated over and over again from less than credible sources.