Snorkel removed; 2 washer shim...

[ricomtzjr]

2012 Ninja (bought new with 1 mile on Oct 3d)
current mileage: 2013 miles

I have recently removed the snorkel and added 2 washers to shim the needles. The bike doesn't need long to warm up anymore but still seems slow to take off and once it reaches 4-5k rpm range, it takes off. I haven't set the mixture screws since I have not removed the caps yet. That is still to come.

When it was still stock, I didn't notice it to this extreme. Maybe it's because of the added noise from the snorkel removal that actually draws my attention to it...I don't know. But it did take an awful time to warm up though and did have the cold engine hiccup on takeoff.

So right now, this is what I am thinking. I am going to put the snorkel back on and set the mixture screws out 2.5 and tune from there. The top end is great, no problems there...

[Jiggles]

You should never be under 4k

Just sayin'

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You should never be under 4k

Just sayin'

LOL...I don't stay there long at all...I just notice that when I take off (usually around 2-3k rpm) it seems slow until about 5k and it takes off...am I just not applying the powerband accordingly then? I have only had this bike 2 months, still learning it.

Maybe just the sound from the intake without the snorkel is thowing me off...becuase I never noticed this before...stock seemed smoother than what I have now...maybe just a mixture setting adjustment?

[Jiggles]

Well @ 4k you are making 7 hp, thats not a whole lot to get ya moving

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

...I just notice that when I take off (usually around 2-3k rpm) it seems slow until about 5k and it takes off...am I just not applying the powerband accordingly then?

You need to practice taking off at a higher rpm. Try taking off at 3-4k. When you do that 5k comes much quicker.

BTW, no need to mess with the mixture screws with just shims.

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well @ 4k you are making 7 hp, thats not a whole lot to get ya moving

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

You need to practice taking off at a higher rpm. Try taking off at 3-4k. When you do that 5k comes much quicker.

BTW, no need to mess with the mixture screws with just shims.

I will practice my launches. The sound of the intake has messed with my expectations on power=noise...lol. Earplugs going back in...lol.

7 hp isn't really a lot...thanks for that visual. I have seen dyno sheets before, but never really paid any attention to the rev ranges...

[Jiggles]

Oh also, that is WOT

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Oh also, that is WOT

so WOT at 4k is under 10hp...I see where you're going with this...

[vmax]

Hi,

I have ninja 2012 and recrntly I have try and error using washer (1 or 2 and 3 each needles) with default air mixture L 2,5 R 1 3/4. With 1 washer each needle the bike hard to rev , seems the to rich in midranges cause sound a little deep. Then I play with idle screw, I assume different between Left and Right is 3/4. So i adjust now L2,75 R 2. Now my bike totaly diffrent, very smooth, rev with all gear change with no drop rpm. So my point is you must set your idle screw for shimming. All this condition still using snorkel, maybe i will try remove the snorkel to see rev to redline easy.

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

2012 Ninja (bought new with 1 mile on Oct 3d)
current mileage: 2013 miles

I have recently removed the snorkel and added 2 washers to shim the needles. The bike doesn't need long to warm up anymore but still seems slow to take off and once it reaches 4-5k rpm range, it takes off. I haven't set the mixture screws since I have not removed the caps yet. That is still to come.

When it was still stock, I didn't notice it to this extreme. Maybe it's because of the added noise from the snorkel removal that actually draws my attention to it...I don't know. But it did take an awful time to warm up though and did have the cold engine hiccup on takeoff.

So right now, this is what I am thinking. I am going to put the snorkel back on and set the mixture screws out 2.5 and tune from there. The top end is great, no problems there...

[Lew360]

I had the same thing happening to mine. I have the mixture screws set right around 2 each. The thing that actually fixed my problem was to balance the carbs. Once I got the carbs balanced correctly it was like a totally different bike.

Hope that is some help.

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by vmax

Hi,

I have ninja 2012 and recrntly I have try and error using washer (1 or 2 and 3 each needles) with default air mixture L 2,5 R 1 3/4. With 1 washer each needle the bike hard to rev , seems the to rich in midranges cause sound a little deep. Then I play with idle screw, I assume different between Left and Right is 3/4. So i adjust now L2,75 R 2. Now my bike totaly diffrent, very smooth, rev with all gear change with no drop rpm. So my point is you must set your idle screw for shimming. All this condition still using snorkel, maybe i will try remove the snorkel to see rev to redline easy.

Originally Posted by Lew360

I had the same thing happening to mine. I have the mixture screws set right around 2 each. The thing that actually fixed my problem was to balance the carbs. Once I got the carbs balanced correctly it was like a totally different bike.

Hope that is some help.

Rode this morning to see how the bike behaved. Temperature was in the mid 40s and very low humidity. Bike warmed up in no time and was able to get off the choke well under a minute.

Took of on a ride around post to warm up the tires and to test the response. Response was great throughout the range.

Following that, I made my way to the highway and up the mountain pass. Altitude in El Paso is about 3800 feet. No issues pulling up the pass all the way up to 5200 feet.

We'll see how the fuel mileage is affected after these modifications. Definitely glad I did this. We'll see how the temperature around here affects the performance. Temps go from 30-40s up to 60s for the afternoon. I'll make adjustments as needed. I still haven't tuned the mixture screws and checked the carb sync. That will be next weekend, probably, along with drilling the slides.

I will keep you all posted on my results.

Environmental conditions:
3800 feet altitude
dry/dusty climate
30-40s lows/60-70s highs

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

..... I still haven't tuned the mixture screws and checked the carb sync. That will be next weekend, probably, along with drilling the slides.

I will keep you all posted on my results.

Environmental conditions:
3800 feet altitude
dry/dusty climate
30-40s lows/60-70s highs

Your bike only has a little over 2k miles. it shouldn't need a carb sync unless you been dicking around with them a lot (turned the adjusting screw or separated them). Not unless you are doing a big change to the intake (bigger jets, full exhaust, pods) drilling the slides gives little benefit. If your bike runs fine now, why mess with it more. Get the most out of the improvement you have now by changing the sprockets if you have not done so already. If after riding and practicing some more on that setup, you feel you need more umph, then go from there. The best thing to do when doing intake mods is do a little at a time.

Expect slightly lower gas mileage in temps below 70. You may find yourself adjusting your idle speed from season to season as well.

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Your bike only has a little over 2k miles. it shouldn't need a carb sync unless you been dicking around with them a lot (turned the adjusting screw or separated them). Not unless you are doing a big change to the intake (bigger jets, full exhaust, pods) drilling the slides gives little benefit. If your bike runs fine now, why mess with it more. Get the most out of the improvement you have now by changing the sprockets if you have not done so already. If after riding and practicing some more on that setup, you feel you need more umph, then go from there. The best thing to do when doing intake mods is do a little at a time.

Expect slightly lower gas mileage in temps below 70. You may find yourself adjusting your idle speed from season to season as well.

Advice taken...I will do that. So, if I tune the mixture screws, will I need a carb sync, or should they be fine? With shimming the needles, should I adjust the mixture screws?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

Advice taken...I will do that. So, if I tune the mixture screws, will I need a carb sync, or should they be fine? With shimming the needles, should I adjust the mixture screws?

The mixture screws don't necessarily need adjusting when adding washers to stock needles. The mixture screws are for adjusting the amount of fuel let into the carb at idle speeds.

A carb sync is matching the butterfly valves in the two carburetors so they both open the same amount. Unless one cylinder is firing harder than the other you should not need to do it.

If your idle speed is fine, why change it? The mixture screws are set at the factory to meet emission standards and still make the bike rideable. Adding washers the the needles mainly affects 1/4 - 3/4 throttle. So synching and adjusting the mixture screws at this point should not be necessary.

Now that you've shimmed and de-snorkled, if you want to improve your midrange and top end a little bit, you can change the stock filter to a Pipercross (just my opinion) although not necessary.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

A carb sync is matching the butterfly valves in the two carburetors so they both open the same amount. Unless one cylinder is firing harder than the other you should not need to do it.

A carb sync won't hurt a thing. It should be done after some maintenance anyways, like valve adjustments. If the bike has had mileage put on it (including break in) it won't hurt a thing to sync the carbs to make them run a little smoother. Besides, it takes 5 minutes and can be done very cheaply with some Snapple bottles and some hose. I always synced my carbs after adjusting the jetting.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

A carb sync won't hurt a thing. It should be done after some maintenance anyways, like valve adjustments. If the bike has had mileage put on it (including break in) it won't hurt a thing to sync the carbs to make them run a little smoother. Besides, it takes 5 minutes and can be done very cheaply with some Snapple bottles and some hose. I always synced my carbs after adjusting the jetting.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F

I will likely do a carb sync next weekend. I will use this tank to see how it runs and go from there. I did notice some very slight surging at idle. Would an improperly sync'd carb(s) cause the idle to move a couple hundred rpm?

I have my homemade carb sync tool in my storage room too. Whether it needs it or not, I will likely so it anyway.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

Would an improperly sync'd carb(s) cause the idle to move a couple hundred rpm?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but typically carbs that need syncing will have an idle that oscillates rhythmically up and down a little. In my experience, it's not a large variation of speed, but it's just a constant up and down, up and down, up and down with the idle speed.

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but typically carbs that need syncing will have an idle that oscillates rhythmically up and down a little. In my experience, it's not a large variation of speed, but it's just a constant up and down, up and down, up and down with the idle speed.

Lol! That's what I was trying to say...

While warming up, the idle will "oscillate" 2-3 hundred RPM. I didn't pay attention to it once it was warm because I was too wrapped up in wringing the throttle on the newfound powerband.

[choneofakind]

Then syncing might help. Remember, only sync carbs when they're up at operating temp.

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Then syncing might help. Remember, only sync carbs when they're up at operating temp.

Now that I do know...spent some time doing that on my ninja 500 a couple months ago. Thanks for the info!

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ricomtzjr

...While warming up, the idle will "oscillate" 2-3 hundred RPM. I didn't pay attention to it once it was warm because I was too wrapped up in wringing the throttle on the newfound powerband.

Was the engine cold and the choke on at the time?

[ricomtzjr]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Was the engine cold and the choke on at the time?

I had just switched the choke off...engine still relatively cold.

[ricomtzjr]

Topped off yesterday and for about 55 mpg. Not excessively hard on the throttle, but tent to open it up a little more than normal. Great response and not sputtering nor bogging down.