Stupid first bike question

[Rys]

I'm signed up for my msf this month and I plan on getting a bike sometime this fall. I am 99% sure that I will be getting the ninja however I thought I would throw out a question. From a personal preference standpoint I like the looks and more relaxed riding position on some of the naked and enduro bikes. I know something like a monster 696 a street triple are horrible choices. But what about something like Bmw's 650 gs? the whole different engine types throw me off but I would assume a 650 engine in an enduro bike is not the same thing as a 600cc sport bike. I like the idea of a lighter easier to handle bike but truthfully I feel a bit old to be riding a sport type of bike. What do you guys think about any other first bikes out there(not cruiser style)?

[Honko]

Depends on what 600 cc sportbike you're referring to. It's definitely not the same as a 600 cc supersport like a cbr/gsxr/r6/zx-6r which are in the neighborhood of 100 hp. But it is definitely comparable to say a ninja 650r/suzuki sv650 which are around 60-70 hp.

If you were looking at getting the bmw the 650r and sv 650 may not be bad bikes to consider either. Both have a more upright, relaxed seating position as opposed to the racing orientation of the supersports I mentioned.

[Lil_Green_Demon]

If you've never ridden a bike before, I'm not sure about jumping to something so powerful. 60-70 hp might not sound like a lot, but it's an incredible amount for a two wheel bike.
Some people consider Ninja 650R, SV650, etc., to be beginner bikes because they provide a really good amount of power but are more relaxed than the typical 600cc super sports, but imo those 650 bikes are for advanced beginners. In other words, people who have been riding for a decent amount of time.
It's really your choice, though. If your heart is set on the BMW, it's a nice bike, but I'd be looking at the Suzuki SV650 instead. That bike can be found for less than $3k in plenty of Craigslist sites, and similar "for sale" sites, all while having low miles on them.
Good luck and let us know what you go for.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Rys

I know something like a monster 696 a street triple are horrible choices.

How so?

[Honko]

If he's looking for a relaxed upright position, I'd imagine those wouldn't exactly be the best choices.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Honko

If he's looking for a relaxed upright position, I'd imagine those wouldn't exactly be the best choices.

Agreed, but why was he specific?

[Heed]

Now that you mention it, I'm curious. I never sat on a sport bike so I don't know how it feels really. When I took the MSF, I rode a Yamaha TW200 and the foot pegs were more centered and parallel to the ground, unlike a Ninja. For those who ride a Ninja, is it really that much of a difference?

[sombo]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Agreed, but why was he specific?

Most likely because they are commonly known naked bikes. They would also be horrible choices for a beginner because they are rather powerful and not that forgiving to newby mistakes. That's about as good a guess as I got.

[bdavison]

Bmw 650gs is one of the most comfortable bikes ive ever been on. For some reason, it just fits me really well. Cant go wrong with that one. But for a beginner....um...i dont know. Its certainly no slouch, but the power is far more manageable than a supersport....so it might work.

[Alex]

I wouldn't think that the Monster 696, or to a lesser extent, the street triple, would be terrible choices for a first bike. The Monster in particular is engineered and marketed for the newer rider, with a light clutch pull, a moderate and predictable torque curve, and less bodywork to worry about up front.

But - from another standpoint, it is a heck of alot more expensive to dive into the sport, and by all of the polls available here, the people that manage to not drop their first bike are in the minority. Dropping a shiny new Italian machine, which comes with a higher price tag up front, much more expensive repairs if it were to be damaged, large loss of value if things aren't fixed back to pristine, etc, may be more daunting than a less expensive machine like our ninjettes.

[Gorilla25]

I think the only thing that would make the Monster a bad choice is on your wallet...haha

[Rys]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

How so?

Because I know the street triple and the 696 have bigger engines than what most would recommend for a beginner bike. The reason I mentioned them specifically was because I like the naked style the best of all the bikes I have seen. They are not the only ones I like they were just examples. I like triumphs tiger too bmw's 800, the gladius and several others

The reason I thought of the BMW 650 was because I figured it might be geared a little different and the specs on the BMW page said it was only 48 hp. I was curious if and enduro style bike like the bmw with only 48 hp might be an option or if there were any others out there that might fit the bill

It just looked nice and comfy to me

[toofast]

On these bikes that are in a more "upright" position and such...do they still handle nicely? Do you think I will get to a point where I wished I got something more agile? I am wondering if the "fun" factor is still pretty high with any bike as you have the wind in your face and body and you are out in the open unlike a car.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by toofast

On these bikes that are in a more "upright" position and such...do they still handle nicely? Do you think I will get to a point where I wished I got something more agile? I am wondering if the "fun" factor is still pretty high with any bike as you have the wind in your face and body and you are out in the open unlike a car.

Well owning a pre-gen ninjette I can tell you that for me it's great. I personally like the more upright, WC (wind conditioner, natural version of an AC unit ) feel that the pre-gen has. I have upgraded the suspension so it handles great.

[TXJ]

Most enduro bikes have low HP because they're single cylinder engines. They're made for torque and low end power to handle offroad conditions. There are some motard/ds/enduro bikes with twins in them, BMW800GS, Vstrom, hypermotard 796, etc. that put out double the HP figures a single does.

Starting on a bike like this may be challenging unless you're 6ft+ and fairly strong, since they have rather high seats and are top heavy. It may be intimidating for a new rider. If you want to try out a dual sport / enduro style bike search around for a KLR650. It will get you use to the weight, height and handling characteristics of such a machine. You can find them pretty cheap (2-3k for a nice one). Plus they're probably one of the most reliable bikes there is. You can do anything to it and it will keep going.

[Rys]

Originally Posted by TXJ

Most enduro bikes have low HP because they're single cylinder engines. They're made for torque and low end power to handle offroad conditions. There are some motard/ds/enduro bikes with twins in them, BMW800GS, Vstrom, hypermotard 796, etc. that put out double the HP figures a single does.

Starting on a bike like this may be challenging unless you're 6ft+ and fairly strong, since they have rather high seats and are top heavy. It may be intimidating for a new rider. If you want to try out a dual sport / enduro style bike search around for a KLR650. It will get you use to the weight, height and handling characteristics of such a machine. You can find them pretty cheap (2-3k for a nice one). Plus they're probably one of the most reliable bikes there is. You can do anything to it and it will keep going.

I agree most of the enduro bikes are taller than I am interested in owning. however the BMW g650gs has a 30.7 inch seat height which is basically the same as the 250 ninja. Additionally the gas tank is below the seat which would help lower the center of gravity. It also has a 387 lbs dry weight which I didnt think was to heavy. On paper it doesn't seem like it would be a bad first bike(other than price), which was why i was asking about it

[TXJ]

Originally Posted by Rys

I agree most of the enduro bikes are taller than I am interested in owning. however the BMW g650gs has a 30.7 inch seat height which is basically the same as the 250 ninja. Additionally the gas tank is below the seat which would help lower the center of gravity. It also has a 387 lbs dry weight which I didnt think was to heavy. On paper it doesn't seem like it would be a bad first bike(other than price), which was why i was asking about it

To be honest, it isn't a bad choice to start on. Other then what you already stated: price. I'm pretty sure most beemer bikes now have adjustable seats that can do +/- 1-2 inches. Though you'd probably be depressed for a month if you ever dropped it..I know I would. I borrowed and rode a K1200R for a few weeks, it wasn't enjoyable ... The bike was fantastic, but I was afraid of damaging it.

[coondog]

I wouldn't worry about my age, rather my abilities. Beginner bike and USA = USED kawi ninjette 250

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Rys

I'm signed up for my msf this month and I plan on getting a bike sometime this fall. I am 99% sure that I will be getting the ninja however I thought I would throw out a question. From a personal preference standpoint I like the looks and more relaxed riding position on some of the naked and enduro bikes. I know something like a monster 696 a street triple are horrible choices. But what about something like Bmw's 650 gs? the whole different engine types throw me off but I would assume a 650 engine in an enduro bike is not the same thing as a 600cc sport bike. I like the idea of a lighter easier to handle bike but truthfully I feel a bit old to be riding a sport type of bike. What do you guys think about any other first bikes out there(not cruiser style)?

Unless you want to do a lot of dirt riding, I'd stay clear of enduros. The ride is too uncomfortable because of the knobby tires and the speed is generally limited. Not much fun on the road.

I'd also avoid naked bikes and streetfighters -- unless you are trying to get the girls to run away from you or you live in a high crime area and want something that no thief would have.

The Ninja is the best bike ever. You won't be disappointed. The Ninja 250 is an excellent choice for a first bike.

[bluepoof]

I owned an '01 F650GS for about 3 years (about 30k miles) and loved it. It's a very easy bike to ride as the gas tank under the seat puts the center of gravity quite low. The ergonomics are fantastic.

I disagree that it's an uncomfortable ride for the street -- it's not a GoldWing, of course, and long interstate riding (200+ miles) got tiring, but less so than the Ninjette IMHO. I ran Metzeler Tourances on mine and the ride was very smooth.

I also had an '09 twin version for a couple of thousand miles (I had only had it for 3 months when I injured my back and had to stop riding for a while); I liked the thumper version much better. The handlebars on the twin are wider and lower and I found the ergos uncomfortable after an all-day ride. The ride is much smoother on the twin, but IMHO it wasn't worth the change in ergonomics.

I'm happy to blather on about the F650GS thumper if you have any specific questions.

[Rys]

What about power? Would it be something that I would have to worry about as a first time rider? I have some sort mental hang up that I'm gonna mess up and grab a bunch of throttle on accident. I went to the BMW dealership today and sat on both the g650 and the f 650. The f was a touch high for my taste. The g was just down right comfy. While $7400.00 is not bad in my opinion I'll probably stick with a ninja to start with. Half of the fun for me has been learning about an sitting on all the different kinds of bikes

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by Rys

What about power? Would it be something that I would have to worry about as a first time rider? I have some sort mental hang up that I'm gonna mess up and grab a bunch of throttle on accident. I went to the BMW dealership today and sat on both the g650 and the f 650. The f was a touch high for my taste. The g was just down right comfy. While $7400.00 is not bad in my opinion I'll probably stick with a ninja to start with. Half of the fun for me has been learning about an sitting on all the different kinds of bikes

I had that same fear about grabbing too much throttle and landing on my butt or worse. The course will teach you that you can grab all the throttle you want (mistake or not) and as long as the clutch is in, you won't be shooting out into traffic by mistake. Also, you will learn to hold your wrist so that even leaning on the bars by mistake will only allow you to go so far with the throttle.
The instructor finally saw the issue and held my hand on the clutch and revved the living spit out of the bike to get it through my head that I control the bike, not the other way around.

By the end of the course, you will have no troubles with this. I thought I would never get it but it's amazing how your body just learns to do what it needs to do. And by the way, I'm older and don't drive a car either so if I can do it, so can you

I also sat on the f650gs and fell in love with it. I'm pretty short but I could almost flatfoot it because of the shape and the way it wraps around you. I think it would be a perfect choice. It's a bit of all around biking and the ABS doesn't kick in until you REALLY need it so you would still learn proper braking techniques.
On the other hand, I love my ninja and it's no where near as ergonomically bent over as most sportikes like supersports.
Here's a link to the video review on a Canadian motorcycle show. The f650gs has a detuned 800cc engine but I don't know enough about engines to know if it can be goosed back up to an 800cc again. It may be my second bike.
There's also a review of the ninja - enjoy!
And let us know how you liked the course!
http://www.motorcycleexperience.ca/roadtest.html