Electrical Problem! Help Please!

kawigirl · October 7th, 2011, 12:11 PM

My 2009 ninja keeps having diodes go bad in the starter switch! What could possibly be causing that? Is anyone else having this problem? The guys at the shop say they have never even had one of these go bad before and are going to have to do all kinds of diagnostics and in the mean time it is costing me money and making me miss the last bit of beautiful weather for the year and really just pissing me off. I have had the bike for a year and a half and haven't had this problem until recently.

CThunder-blue · October 7th, 2011, 12:16 PM

A little more info would help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawigirl

My 2009 ninja keeps having diodes go bad in the starter switch!

How many times has it happened? Have you gotten it fixed before? If so, what did you do for the fix? I'm guessing we're talking about the push start button and not the on/off switch right?

kawigirl · October 7th, 2011, 12:21 PM

This is the second time in a week and a half this has happened. The only thing i had done prior to this was had new tires put on. and i didn't fix it myself the first time i had the shop do it. and yeah it is the little diode in side the start but not the kill switch. and they said they just replaced the diode but now that it has happened again they are going to have to look for a cause which as of now they have no clue what it is

CThunder-blue · October 7th, 2011, 01:00 PM

Did they make sure it wasn't one of the other sensors causing the bike not to start? There's a Clutch safety switch, kickstand sensor, and neutral sensor.

kawigirl · January 9th, 2012, 01:21 PM

This is killing me!! My bike has been in and out of the shop for over 3 months now. Something keeps blowing the diode in my starter and makes my starter button not work. It will push start just fine. The shop i have been going to are kawi ceritfied and they have even called kawasaki to try to get more answers but nothing seems to work. We have replaced the stator relay and solenoid and finally just rerouted the wiring around the diode to start it. That worked for a few days and then it was right back to square one. Its a 2009 and has always been taken care. It is most definitely not the battery. Has anyone else experienced anything like this??

Alex · January 9th, 2012, 01:39 PM

What a pain that the same issue keeps popping up again with your bike. Would it be OK to merge this thread with the prior one so the history is maintained?

kawigirl · January 9th, 2012, 01:40 PM

yeah no problem

Skippii · January 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM

What's the point of a diode there? Doesn't seem logical. And for what it's worth, I replaced the whole starter solenoid and everything on my 500R with some heavy duty wire and a household lightswitch.

I wouldn't recomment it.
Posted via Mobile Device

alex.s · January 9th, 2012, 03:16 PM

theres really only 2 things that kill diodes and the second one is usually caused by the first... too much current, and too high of heat.

the starting system is very simple. battery through the relay into the starter motor. the diode is there to make sure you dont connect something backwards and try to start your engine by cranking it the wrong way (good way to screw up an engine)

check the voltage coming out of your battery. check the charging output of your regulator/rectifier. if they are both good check the draw from the starter motor itself. it could be a short in the windings. or even a short in the wiring going to the motor.

also note, you mean "starter relay". there is no "stator relay" the stator is like an alternator in a car and is responsible for creating power for the charging circuit.

HKr1 · January 9th, 2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawigirl

This is killing me!! My bike has been in and out of the shop for over 3 months now. Something keeps blowing the diode in my starter and makes my starter button not work. It will push start just fine. The shop i have been going to are kawi ceritfied and they have even called kawasaki to try to get more answers but nothing seems to work. We have replaced the stator relay and solenoid and finally just rerouted the wiring around the diode to start it. That worked for a few days and then it was right back to square one. Its a 2009 and has always been taken care. It is most definitely not the battery. Has anyone else experienced anything like this??

If the diode was by-passed, then what blew??

flynjay · January 9th, 2012, 05:08 PM

Sounds like you have a short in the starter relay circuit. Or a bad starter relay that is always drawing current.

alex.s · January 9th, 2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

If the diode was by-passed, then what blew??

probably blew the short wide open. my guess is on the inside of the starter motor.

Jason, OP says they already replaced solenoid and relay.

HKr1 · January 9th, 2012, 08:47 PM

Seems like it would blow a fuse first if it was too much current. Most times a diode takes a dump, its a dead short < No longer a diode. Have seen a few explode before thou.....

If the relays have been replaced, I would start looking at the wiring harness. Shorting that puppy to ground would do it in for sure. But, that would only happen during starting.. So, think you would notice something there when it happens.

Another idea would be put an ameter on it, just see what kinda current that circuit is pulling.

kawigirl · January 9th, 2012, 10:39 PM

Thanks for all of the input guys. If it gets figured out i will post and let everyone know what it finally was. Has anyone ever heard of this kind of thing happening before?

Skippii · January 10th, 2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

probably blew the short wide open. my guess is on the inside of the starter motor.

Jason, OP says they already replaced solenoid and relay.

The solenoid is a relay. (when talking about bikes, at least).
Posted via Mobile Device

alex.s · January 10th, 2012, 01:12 AM

that had me confused. not what i would normally call a solenoid

Skippii · January 10th, 2012, 01:25 AM

Technically, the solenoid would be the electromagnetic part of a relay, but the whole assembly is called a solenoid on relays over about 50amps. I'm not sure why--might have something to do with a different design for higher currents.
Posted via Mobile Device

Skippii · January 10th, 2012, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

Seems like it would blow a fuse first if it was too much current. Most times a diode takes a dump, its a dead short < No longer a diode. Have seen a few explode before thou.....

with high inrush currents like when rectifying wall current, diodes always seem to blow before fuses for me. I'm okay with that because 1N4001S are like 8 cents each and fuses are about 50...
Posted via Mobile Device

flynjay · January 10th, 2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

Jason, OP says they already replaced solenoid and relay.

I discounted the starter because the thumb switch on the handlebar is not really connected to the starter. It is connected to a relay that provides power to a solenoid that provides power to the starter.

It could be the starter solenoid.

Here is a wiring schematic for the ignition system. I assume the diode that is failing is the one right below the start button?

Looking at the schematic, it is possible that something in the headlight could cause a problem as well.

k4m1k4z3k · January 11th, 2012, 05:12 PM

I had the very same problem last year with my '08. From Dec to august I had blown through four sets of diodes.. sometimes they'd last a month other times they only lasted about a week. They also blew differently every time where it was always the same two pins that correspond to the starter circuit, but sometimes it was an open short, closed short, or only allowed a partial current.

Things I've tried:
replacing the battery (was told by the dealer that mine was bad...liars)
disassembling and reconnecting all components along the entire wiring harness
testing safety switches and starter circuit components per the service manual (except the neutral switch because i was afraid to open the crankcase)
checking voltages across each component of the wiring harness
slicing open the entire wiring harness and checking solder points and wire shorts

Ultimately, I gave in and and bought a salvaged wiring harness. Intended to swap out the entire thing but got lazy and ended up just swapping out the starter solenoid, both diodes, and both relays. Its now been 4 months and 3000 miles with no problems *knock on wood*.

k4m1k4z3k · January 27th, 2012, 08:10 AM

And spoke too soon. just got to school, threw the sidestand down and now the bike won't start. I just might be stranded at here...fml.

But this makes it diode #3 out of 4 thats blow right after shutting the bike off via sidestand switch.

Edit: False alarm! I'm an idiot. Guess i was just rushing too quick to get to class. The bike still works 5mos strong!

quanttrom · January 30th, 2012, 11:02 AM

This seems quite peculiar.. There isn't anything obvious that jumps out.

Do you have access to an oscilloscope? Would you be able to check if the diode is subjected to operation beyond it's safe operating range?

Eg, higher current or higher reverse voltage than expected ?

October 7th, 2011, 12:11 PM	#1
kawigirl ninjette.org member Name: Chelsea Location: Fayetteville Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 15	Help Please!! - failed diodes / starter switch My 2009 ninja keeps having diodes go bad in the starter switch! What could possibly be causing that? Is anyone else having this problem? The guys at the shop say they have never even had one of these go bad before and are going to have to do all kinds of diagnostics and in the mean time it is costing me money and making me miss the last bit of beautiful weather for the year and really just pissing me off. I have had the bike for a year and a half and haven't had this problem until recently.

October 7th, 2011, 01:00 PM	#4
CThunder-blue ModMy250.com Name: Tri Location: St, Louis Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.	Did they make sure it wasn't one of the other sensors causing the bike not to start? There's a Clutch safety switch, kickstand sensor, and neutral sensor. __________________________________________________ The www.ModMy250.com guy

January 9th, 2012, 01:21 PM	#5
kawigirl ninjette.org member Name: Chelsea Location: Fayetteville Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 15	Electrical Problem! Help Please! This is killing me!! My bike has been in and out of the shop for over 3 months now. Something keeps blowing the diode in my starter and makes my starter button not work. It will push start just fine. The shop i have been going to are kawi ceritfied and they have even called kawasaki to try to get more answers but nothing seems to work. We have replaced the stator relay and solenoid and finally just rerouted the wiring around the diode to start it. That worked for a few days and then it was right back to square one. Its a 2009 and has always been taken care. It is most definitely not the battery. Has anyone else experienced anything like this??

January 9th, 2012, 01:39 PM	#6
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	What a pain that the same issue keeps popping up again with your bike. Would it be OK to merge this thread with the prior one so the history is maintained? __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

January 9th, 2012, 03:16 PM	#9
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	theres really only 2 things that kill diodes and the second one is usually caused by the first... too much current, and too high of heat. the starting system is very simple. battery through the relay into the starter motor. the diode is there to make sure you dont connect something backwards and try to start your engine by cranking it the wrong way (good way to screw up an engine) check the voltage coming out of your battery. check the charging output of your regulator/rectifier. if they are both good check the draw from the starter motor itself. it could be a short in the windings. or even a short in the wiring going to the motor. also note, you mean "starter relay". there is no "stator relay" the stator is like an alternator in a car and is responsible for creating power for the charging circuit. __________________________________________________

October 7th, 2011, 12:21 PM	#3
kawigirl ninjette.org member Name: Chelsea Location: Fayetteville Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 15	This is the second time in a week and a half this has happened. The only thing i had done prior to this was had new tires put on. and i didn't fix it myself the first time i had the shop do it. and yeah it is the little diode in side the start but not the kill switch. and they said they just replaced the diode but now that it has happened again they are going to have to look for a cause which as of now they have no clue what it is

January 9th, 2012, 01:40 PM	#7
kawigirl ninjette.org member Name: Chelsea Location: Fayetteville Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 15	yeah no problem

January 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM	#8
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	What's the point of a diode there? Doesn't seem logical. And for what it's worth, I replaced the whole starter solenoid and everything on my 500R with some heavy duty wire and a household lightswitch. I wouldn't recomment it. Posted via Mobile Device

January 9th, 2012, 05:08 PM	#11
flynjay ninjette.org guru Name: Jason Location: Houston, TX Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R Posts: 455	Sounds like you have a short in the starter relay circuit. Or a bad starter relay that is always drawing current.

January 9th, 2012, 08:47 PM	#13
HKr1 IC2(SW) Name: Kerry Location: Pensacola Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.	Seems like it would blow a fuse first if it was too much current. Most times a diode takes a dump, its a dead short < No longer a diode. Have seen a few explode before thou..... If the relays have been replaced, I would start looking at the wiring harness. Shorting that puppy to ground would do it in for sure. But, that would only happen during starting.. So, think you would notice something there when it happens. Another idea would be put an ameter on it, just see what kinda current that circuit is pulling.

January 9th, 2012, 10:39 PM	#14
kawigirl ninjette.org member Name: Chelsea Location: Fayetteville Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 15	Thanks for all of the input guys. If it gets figured out i will post and let everyone know what it finally was. Has anyone ever heard of this kind of thing happening before?

January 10th, 2012, 01:12 AM	#16
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	that had me confused. not what i would normally call a solenoid __________________________________________________

January 10th, 2012, 01:25 AM	#17
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	Technically, the solenoid would be the electromagnetic part of a relay, but the whole assembly is called a solenoid on relays over about 50amps. I'm not sure why--might have something to do with a different design for higher currents. Posted via Mobile Device

January 11th, 2012, 05:12 PM	#20
k4m1k4z3k ninjette.org member Name: Kel Location: Harford County,MD Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 24	I had the very same problem last year with my '08. From Dec to august I had blown through four sets of diodes.. sometimes they'd last a month other times they only lasted about a week. They also blew differently every time where it was always the same two pins that correspond to the starter circuit, but sometimes it was an open short, closed short, or only allowed a partial current. Things I've tried: replacing the battery (was told by the dealer that mine was bad...liars) disassembling and reconnecting all components along the entire wiring harness testing safety switches and starter circuit components per the service manual (except the neutral switch because i was afraid to open the crankcase) checking voltages across each component of the wiring harness slicing open the entire wiring harness and checking solder points and wire shorts Ultimately, I gave in and and bought a salvaged wiring harness. Intended to swap out the entire thing but got lazy and ended up just swapping out the starter solenoid, both diodes, and both relays. Its now been 4 months and 3000 miles with no problems knock on wood.

January 27th, 2012, 08:10 AM	#21
k4m1k4z3k ninjette.org member Name: Kel Location: Harford County,MD Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 24	And spoke too soon. just got to school, threw the sidestand down and now the bike won't start. I just might be stranded at here...fml. But this makes it diode #3 out of 4 thats blow right after shutting the bike off via sidestand switch. Edit: False alarm! I'm an idiot. Guess i was just rushing too quick to get to class. The bike still works 5mos strong! Last futzed with by k4m1k4z3k; January 27th, 2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: I'm stupid.

January 30th, 2012, 11:02 AM	#22
quanttrom ninjette.org member Name: QUANT Location: Canada Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250r Posts: 176	This seems quite peculiar.. There isn't anything obvious that jumps out. Do you have access to an oscilloscope? Would you be able to check if the diode is subjected to operation beyond it's safe operating range? Eg, higher current or higher reverse voltage than expected ?

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