Metal piece under stock front fender

samw · January 15th, 2012, 04:19 PM

I'm replacing the stock bodywork with race bodywork. Today when I removed the stock front fender I see a fairly large metal brace that runs underneath the fender. It bolts to each fork tube and also holds the cable management brackets on each side. The OEM fiche calls this "BRACE-ASSY,FRONT."

I think I can remove this brace and save weight, but I thought I'd ask here.

It may even interfere with my race bodywork, I haven't test fit it yet.

Can I remove this brace?

Zyconic17 · January 15th, 2012, 04:53 PM

I dont think you can, the fender bolts onto the brace, so unless you dont want a front fender, i dont think it would be possible. i guess you could always make a new one that is lighter. And it will not interfere with race bodywork, the fender is the same as the stock one.... just lighter.

samw · January 15th, 2012, 08:18 PM

Thanks Zyconic

! If the fender bolts to the brace, I guess it stays on the bike.

alex.s · January 16th, 2012, 02:02 AM

you can. remove the frame, and the fender. save twice the weight.

randy328 · January 16th, 2012, 11:00 AM

We cut it horizontally on both sides just above the mounting bolts, so that the "crossover" piece was removed. We removed the cable management stuff on the left side since we also removed that cable (speedometer).

The fender is only attached using the side bolts.

smokinsingle · January 18th, 2012, 12:29 PM

That "fender mount" is a fork brace. Designed to keep the front end from twisting up like a pretzel on the track. It adds a substantional amount of stiffness to the front of the bike, especially on the brakes. Leave it alone! I'm trying to wrap my head around a way to make a stiffer one that looks stock!

ROADandTRACK · January 25th, 2012, 12:26 AM

The EX's handle better at speed w/o a fork brace. Believe it or not.

The little advantage was under braking, but you can deal w/ the twisting under braking. The binding up/chatter fast sweeper runing off track problem sucks.

Better w/o it if you are a front runner

samw · January 25th, 2012, 05:25 AM

I've been thinking about this. I haven't ridden the ninjette yet so I don't have any experience with it, but I've never raced a bike with a fork brace. The Honda CBR250R I raced last year has the same size forks too. I haven't gone as far as try to compare frame/fork construction or geometry...

Shadowwolf1117 · January 31st, 2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

That "fender mount" is a fork brace. Designed to keep the front end from twisting up like a pretzel on the track. It adds a substantional amount of stiffness to the front of the bike, especially on the brakes. Leave it alone! I'm trying to wrap my head around a way to make a stiffer one that looks stock!

That is my contention, however going with a stiffer brace may just be a bandaid to a fork suspension issue. I personally am running racetech springs premium gold emulators and preload adjusters, it has made a world of difference for front end control. I havent found a need to go to a stiffer fork brace nor have I tried running without the stock fender/fork brace but I am not experiencing the chatter others have stated. Just remember suspension setup is a pinpointed science. Installing new suspension components is merely the beginning to great control. Set up is everything.

smokinsingle · February 2nd, 2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowwolf1117

That is my contention, however going with a stiffer brace may just be a bandaid to a fork suspension issue. I personally am running racetech springs premium gold emulators and preload adjusters, it has made a world of difference for front end control. I havent found a need to go to a stiffer fork brace nor have I tried running without the stock fender/fork brace but I am not experiencing the chatter others have stated. Just remember suspension setup is a pinpointed science. Installing new suspension components is merely the beginning to great control. Set up is everything.

I'm running the exact same front end parts and totally agree. Set-up is everything! What weight fork oil are you running?

Shadowwolf1117 · February 2nd, 2012, 11:25 PM

I am running 5 weight oil for now and it seems to be doing just fine, I set it at 10mm below stock since i set my emulators a bit stiffer for racing, I also modified my dampening rod to accomodate more equal flow.

ROADandTRACK · February 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM

You are either on a slow track or not going fast enough.

They WILL chatter, mainly on very fast sweepers.

smokinsingle · February 5th, 2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

You are either on a slow track or not going fast enough.

They WILL chatter, mainly on very fast sweepers.

From the BIR website, where we race:
The 3.1-mile Donnybrooke Road Course has 10 turns and is considered wide – the main straight is 60 feet wide. There is essentially no elevation change. BIR is a very high-speed course; vehicles can reach speeds of nearly 160 mph and take the slowest corners around 80 mph. There are wide runoff areas at most of the corners, which makes BIR’s road course extremely safe.
Whether they were Superbike riders, professional Trans-Am drivers or car club members, household names in road racing have challenged the road course’s 10 turns, including Turn 1, a banked right-hand 60-degree turn that continues to be the fastest turn on any road course in the country.

So I must be slow? LOL

Shadowwolf1117 · February 5th, 2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokinsingle

From the BIR website, where we race:
The 3.1-mile Donnybrooke Road Course has 10 turns and is considered wide – the main straight is 60 feet wide. There is essentially no elevation change. BIR is a very high-speed course; vehicles can reach speeds of nearly 160 mph and take the slowest corners around 80 mph. There are wide runoff areas at most of the corners, which makes BIR’s road course extremely safe.
Whether they were Superbike riders, professional Trans-Am drivers or car club members, household names in road racing have challenged the road course’s 10 turns, including Turn 1, a banked right-hand 60-degree turn that continues to be the fastest turn on any road course in the country.

So I must be slow? LOL

+1

Nemesis · February 6th, 2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowwolf1117

I am running 5 weight oil for now and it seems to be doing just fine, I set it at 10mm below stock since i set my emulators a bit stiffer for racing, I also modified my dampening rod to accomodate more equal flow.

5 weight? Did you mean 15?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

You are either on a slow track or not going fast enough.

They WILL chatter, mainly on very fast sweepers.

This is somewhat true. Stock geometry will cause the bike to chatter if 1) you're entry speed is fast and 2) depends on the turn/corner. Mid way through the season I started to experience really bad chatter in certain corners...not all but there were two corners that caused the front to chatter like crazy. Once I changed the setup the chatter completely disappeared.

Shadowwolf1117 · February 6th, 2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

5 weight? Did you mean 15?

Yes! good catch Nemesis, I guess my "1" grew legs

, it is 15w.

Rexbo · February 6th, 2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Once I changed the setup the chatter completely disappeared.

You mean once you raised the rear ride height

I'm curious to see if this brace makes a difference or not, maybe I'll try taking it off for a session or two and see how it feels.

Nemesis · February 6th, 2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexbo

You mean once you raised the rear ride height

Yes.

I don't understand why the brace would make such a huge difference under braking.

Could someone please explain this to me? Someone w/experience that is.

samw · February 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM

Based on the feedback in this thread, I think i'll start with the fork brace on, but as I get used to the bike, experiment with taking the brace off. I think results will vary based on riding style, track layout and surface, etc.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nemesis · February 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM

I don't understand this...by "fork brace" are you referring to the metal piece under the front fender?

It's not a fork brace...it's just there to stabilize the front fender from bouncing around.

smokinsingle · February 7th, 2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I don't understand this...by "fork brace" are you referring to the metal piece under the front fender?

It's not a fork brace...it's just there to stabilize the front fender from bouncing around.

Come on, Nem you really think they would build a fender mount that beefy. That's not very cost effective. It's a fork brace too.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 12:34 AM

Maybe you guys are right but I seriously think you guys are reading into this way too much. A fork brAce for a 250? LOL

But out of curiousity I'll ask my contact (design engineer) @ kawi. Can't wait to hear the answer. Haha

Rexbo · February 7th, 2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Maybe you guys are right but I seriously think you guys are reading into this way too much. A fork brAce for a 250? LOL

But out of curiousity I'll ask my contact (design engineer) @ kawi. Can't wait to hear the answer. Haha

hey they make them for dirtbikes! and its probably cheaper to make a fork brace than put real front forks on these bikes

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 08:20 AM

Dirt bikes I can understand but a street bike like our 250s? Oh, thanks for reminding me to send an email. LOL

ROADandTRACK · February 7th, 2012, 11:08 AM

Nem and Smoke, the things WILL chatter when you go faster.

Even w/ geo. changes.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

Nem and Smoke, the things WILL chatter when you go faster.

Even w/ geo. changes.

Wait...we're talking about the metal brace. You're talking about chattering. What are we talking about again? LOL

And define "when you go faster"?

ROADandTRACK · February 7th, 2012, 11:46 AM

W/ or w/o the brace they will chatter.

In our experience it chatters at a higher speed on our tracks w/o the brace. So we don't run the brace.

If you aren't feeling it then you aren't going fast enough. I'm not being a jerk, it is just that simple.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

W/ or w/o the brace they will chatter.

In our experience it chatters at a higher speed on our tracks w/o the brace. So we don't run the brace.

If you aren't feeling it then you aren't going fast enough. I'm not being a jerk, it is just that simple.

I know you're not trying to be a jerk.

And here's the key word "on our tracks". And since we all race on different tracks not all of us may experience what you have experienced.

Also, after I eliminated the chatter I ran 2 seconds faster. Then in the last round 3 seconds faster and still no chatter. So what exactly am I doing wrong if I'm going faster but am not experiencing chatter.

Sorry not trying to be a jerk.

ROADandTRACK · February 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So what exactly am I doing wrong if I'm going faster but am not experiencing chatter.

Go faster

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

Go faster

Okay, go faster so I can feel chatter again even after eliminating it. Then what shall I do once I eliminate the chatter. Go even faster? I like the way this guy thinks.

At this rate, I'll be doing 2:05s in no time.

ROADandTRACK · February 7th, 2012, 12:19 PM

That's what you are supposed to do.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

That's what you are supposed to do.

Werd!

I like you.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 03:11 PM

This just in:

Quote:

The only purpose of the bracket underside of the 250 front fender is to HOLD the fender in the place. It has NOTHING to do with the forks for handling function.
In early 70's some bikes had a similar bracket to brace the forks but not on today's bikes.

JGRIM · February 7th, 2012, 03:27 PM

Here is a fork brace my buddy and I built. Its based on one he made for his bike, just a little smaller. It changes the way my bike handles for the positive. Think of it as an anti- sway bar on a car. That thing under the fender, I don't know what thing is suppose to "Brace". BTW, I ride on the street only. I know the track is different, but it works great on the street.

Nemesis · February 7th, 2012, 03:43 PM

^^^
Why? Makes no sense whatsoever. Struts on cars vs on motorcycles?? Apples & oranges, my friend. Apples & oranges.

ROADandTRACK · February 7th, 2012, 06:29 PM

I agree, take that off.

JGRIM · February 7th, 2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK

I agree, take that off.

Funny.....Same thing your mother says to me

smokinsingle · February 7th, 2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

This just in:

I still don't understand why Kawi would build a piece that big to just "hold the fender" . It makes no sense to have the loop of metal over the wheel if that is the case. Keep in mind we don't have pinch bolts at the bottom of the fork legs keeping torsion forces off of the axle.
And who is being quoted here?

samw · February 8th, 2012, 09:07 PM

Interesting thread here

ROADandTRACK · February 9th, 2012, 12:08 PM

And it looks silly

January 15th, 2012, 04:19 PM	#1
samw ninjette.org member Name: Sam Location: Ohio Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131	Metal piece under stock front fender I'm replacing the stock bodywork with race bodywork. Today when I removed the stock front fender I see a fairly large metal brace that runs underneath the fender. It bolts to each fork tube and also holds the cable management brackets on each side. The OEM fiche calls this "BRACE-ASSY,FRONT." I think I can remove this brace and save weight, but I thought I'd ask here. It may even interfere with my race bodywork, I haven't test fit it yet. Can I remove this brace?

January 16th, 2012, 02:02 AM	#4
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	you can. remove the frame, and the fender. save twice the weight. __________________________________________________

January 18th, 2012, 12:29 PM	#6
smokinsingle L8APEX Name: CRA#33 EXPERT Location: Mankato, MN Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233	That "fender mount" is a fork brace. Designed to keep the front end from twisting up like a pretzel on the track. It adds a substantional amount of stiffness to the front of the bike, especially on the brakes. Leave it alone! I'm trying to wrap my head around a way to make a stiffer one that looks stock! __________________________________________________ www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com *The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*

February 2nd, 2012, 11:25 PM	#11
Shadowwolf1117 Avid enjoyer of life. Name: Sheldon Location: Studio City Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 EX250 2010 R6 2008 ZX6R 2010 EX650R Posts: 110	I am running 5 weight oil for now and it seems to be doing just fine, I set it at 10mm below stock since i set my emulators a bit stiffer for racing, I also modified my dampening rod to accomodate more equal flow. __________________________________________________ "I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."

February 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM	#20
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	I don't understand this...by "fork brace" are you referring to the metal piece under the front fender? It's not a fork brace...it's just there to stabilize the front fender from bouncing around. __________________________________________________

January 15th, 2012, 04:53 PM	#2
Zyconic17 ninjette.org member Name: David Location: Arvada Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r Track bike, Honda CRF250r Dirt bike Posts: 137	I dont think you can, the fender bolts onto the brace, so unless you dont want a front fender, i dont think it would be possible. i guess you could always make a new one that is lighter. And it will not interfere with race bodywork, the fender is the same as the stock one.... just lighter.

January 15th, 2012, 08:18 PM	#3
samw ninjette.org member Name: Sam Location: Ohio Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131	Thanks Zyconic ! If the fender bolts to the brace, I guess it stays on the bike.

January 16th, 2012, 11:00 AM	#5
randy328 CMRA Mini Endurance #6 Name: Randy Location: Paradise, Tx Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR954, CBR600RR, EX250 Posts: 108	We cut it horizontally on both sides just above the mounting bolts, so that the "crossover" piece was removed. We removed the cable management stuff on the left side since we also removed that cable (speedometer). The fender is only attached using the side bolts.

January 25th, 2012, 12:26 AM	#7
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	The EX's handle better at speed w/o a fork brace. Believe it or not. The little advantage was under braking, but you can deal w/ the twisting under braking. The binding up/chatter fast sweeper runing off track problem sucks. Better w/o it if you are a front runner

January 25th, 2012, 05:25 AM	#8
samw ninjette.org member Name: Sam Location: Ohio Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131	I've been thinking about this. I haven't ridden the ninjette yet so I don't have any experience with it, but I've never raced a bike with a fork brace. The Honda CBR250R I raced last year has the same size forks too. I haven't gone as far as try to compare frame/fork construction or geometry...

February 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM	#12
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	You are either on a slow track or not going fast enough. They WILL chatter, mainly on very fast sweepers.

February 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM	#19
samw ninjette.org member Name: Sam Location: Ohio Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131	Based on the feedback in this thread, I think i'll start with the fork brace on, but as I get used to the bike, experiment with taking the brace off. I think results will vary based on riding style, track layout and surface, etc. Posted via Mobile Device

February 7th, 2012, 12:34 AM	#22
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	Maybe you guys are right but I seriously think you guys are reading into this way too much. A fork brAce for a 250? LOL But out of curiousity I'll ask my contact (design engineer) @ kawi. Can't wait to hear the answer. Haha __________________________________________________

February 7th, 2012, 08:20 AM	#24
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	Dirt bikes I can understand but a street bike like our 250s? Oh, thanks for reminding me to send an email. LOL __________________________________________________

February 7th, 2012, 11:08 AM	#25
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	Nem and Smoke, the things WILL chatter when you go faster. Even w/ geo. changes.

February 7th, 2012, 11:46 AM	#27
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	W/ or w/o the brace they will chatter. In our experience it chatters at a higher speed on our tracks w/o the brace. So we don't run the brace. If you aren't feeling it then you aren't going fast enough. I'm not being a jerk, it is just that simple. Last futzed with by ROADandTRACK; February 7th, 2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: I'm talking about an actual fork brace. the fender mount doesn't do much.

February 7th, 2012, 12:19 PM	#31
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	That's what you are supposed to do.

February 7th, 2012, 03:43 PM	#35
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	^^^ Why? Makes no sense whatsoever. Struts on cars vs on motorcycles?? Apples & oranges, my friend. Apples & oranges. __________________________________________________

February 7th, 2012, 06:29 PM	#36
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	I agree, take that off.

February 8th, 2012, 09:07 PM	#39
samw ninjette.org member Name: Sam Location: Ohio Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131	Interesting thread here

February 9th, 2012, 12:08 PM	#40
ROADandTRACK R&T Suspension Name: K Hertell Location: San Antonio, TEXAS Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175	And it looks silly

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