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Old January 3rd, 2022, 04:59 PM   #81
ducatiman
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5 hours labor, beginning to end, reassembled/set up/tested and ready to go here. Assembled using new stainless hardware, orings, float valves.
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Old January 3rd, 2022, 11:44 PM   #82
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oooh got me on the bolt size sorry... but here is the best discription I have seen yet on cleaning the Ninja carbs from Danno's link just incase you haven't seen it....
it's that passage way to the right of center that has given me most the trouble I THINK , these passage ways are small for the idle circuit but need to be cleaned real good.
...
Very impressive Gorden ! i wish my carbs looked like that LOL !
.....

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Old January 4th, 2022, 06:07 AM   #83
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@ducatiman those look amazing!!!! I wish mine looked like that! maybe I can have them look like that soon!

So just to make doubly sure y’all don’t think the emulsion tube sits too proud?

I found a home depot that has the screws so I am going to get them today but I’m going to have to cut them down. oh well.

Last futzed with by marshallsmith27; January 4th, 2022 at 07:28 AM.
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Old January 4th, 2022, 06:10 AM   #84
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@Bob KellyIII I’m glad you reposted that I could not figure out where exactly the passages ran while I was cleaning them with the tip cleaners. That makes sense now. I wonder if their are pictures of all the circuits for every passage?
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Old January 4th, 2022, 08:22 AM   #85
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@Bob KellyIII I’m glad you reposted that I could not figure out where exactly the passages ran while I was cleaning them with the tip cleaners. That makes sense now. I wonder if their are pictures of all the circuits for every passage?
yup, shown here

https://n4mwd.blogspot.com/2013/10/s...-passages.html

Important to work backwards from venturi end as well.

Bolt-lengths not that critical as longer ones just poke out other side. They don't go into blind dead-end holes
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Old January 4th, 2022, 09:09 AM   #86
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So this this the one on my carbs that were blocked. I understand all the other pictures on that website and the correlation to what they do. I spent 15 minutes looking at all of them, but where does that path run to once it hits its bend? I know I have all the others clean and free but since that has a bend I’m not sure where it runs. when I was trying to blow air through it I couldn’t find where it exited
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Old January 4th, 2022, 09:10 AM   #87
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is it that the choke has to be open for the air to flow through? and those little brass balls there’s 4 in the float area I think. are they sprung or set? because they don’t move at all on my carbs
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Old January 4th, 2022, 10:58 AM   #88
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Brass Balls ? that's a new one to me !.... are you referring to the drawing on the photo ? those represent tiny atomization holes in the throat of the carburetor
you'll notice another one where the air screw goes .
.....
the choke is turned off by a plunger that comes down covering the hole where the drawing says to choke ! it just shuts off the vacuum to that circuit and no more fuel flows when the plunger is down, when the plunger is up and off the hole vacuum can suck the fuel from the entire line...
so that line that is drawn ,exits at the plunger hole of the choke the center hole
that's the one your looking for !
the one that the little tip of the plunger goes into... that is where the choke fuel
comes out and then is sucked through the side hole into the engine.
....
if that circuit is blocked the choke won't work it will make no change to the fuel level ratio in the air going into the engine it won't enrichen it !
.... so simply the choke won't do a dam thing.
....
make sure that short passage way under the pilot jet is clear ...that's the one that has got me 3 times so far..... i think it is a hole in the side of the pilot jet housing going slightly at an angle. not positive on that yet...
....
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Old January 4th, 2022, 12:40 PM   #89
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This is what I was talking about. the lower choke intake comes down and runs to this little brass ball and then that brass ball runs to the outside of the carb body to another brass ball. its got corrosion on it but the ball on the outside of the body doesnt have corrosion
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Old January 4th, 2022, 01:23 PM   #90
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Typically when gas sets in a carb for a long time alot of it evaporates and you can see in a dirty carb where that evaporation started at usually... it's up high usually so anything at that level...i.e. passageways needs to be checked for blockage usually the float bowl is the easiest to clean.... but I was got by the carbs on the SX650 a few years back as they have a passage way in the float bowl ITSELF !!!! i've never seen that before, but they have it on those carbs !
I had those carbs off 3 times cleaning them and i finally discovered the passageway in the float bowl..... it was plugged in both carbs !
i cleaned that out and the bike ran perfectly after that.
...
I have found that a small spring that is uncoiled and straightened out makes a great carb passage way cleaner as it is very strong ( stronger than wire) and can flex without breaking. so you can usually clean the area close to a corner from each direction then flush it out with carb cleaner... that method has served me well for decades.... but you MUST Know where those passageways are in order to get them clean going in without a clue almost always means your going to miss a few.... but unfortunately that seams to be the way I do things ... just dive in and see if i can figure it out and make it work... which usually means I have to re do the job several times !
Thanks to Danno's link there I now know where my blockage is at in the Ninja's carbs i thought it must be there after this last cleaning didn't work but now I am positive ! ( so he says!) so now I am confident I can clean my Ninja's carburetors.... I hope .... I have never had to give up on any carburetor except the AMAL 930 carbs on my Triumph because the pilot jets were not removable.... but I eventually got them clear and it ran great. but I immediately replaced those carbs with an updated version that had removable pilot jets in them !
while the Ninja carbs are still a not completed task i feel confident I can do it
but I will say they are the hardest carbs I've ever worked on... I preferer the older mulkini carbs of the 1970's
....
when I take a carb apart I try to figure out how it operates before I do any cleaning ....then I proceed with the cleaning and cleaning to me doesn't mean the stuff in the bottom of the float bowl... it means the passageways
because they are the critical feature of a carburator. although I usually get around to the stuff in the float bowl.... but to me that stuff isn't critical
... and if you have screw in valve seats for the float bowl it's a real good idea to pull them off too , and clean under them real good as that area collects all kinds of bigger heavier particles that plug jets easy.
....
when I first got my Ninja it would only run on one cylinder , wouldn't idle till I set up the idle screw and in general only worked on one cylinder even reving it up....
the first cleaning found the main jet completely plugged on one side alot of rust particles in both float bowls and carbs that were in need of a good cleaning in general..... so I didn't really dig much deeper into the carbs and slapped it all back together so I could ride it..... big mistake !
because it did run on 2 cylinders after that first cleaning but it would not idle at all.... anything above 2000 rpm it ran on both cylinders anything below that RPM it just wanted to die.... I rode it anyway.... and was very impressed with the little Ninja ! it had lot's of get up and go for such a small bike !
so I pulled the carbs off a second time and did a very thorough cleaning job
.... but it still didn't want to idle ... it was better but still not right !
I fiddled with the air screws on the bottom of the carbs by the bowls and finally got that cylinder to light up at idle ! I was elated ! but after many startings and runs I have decided those carbs are not clean YET !!!
that left carb was really plugged up !
.... why it takes me 3 times cleaning carburetors now I have no idea ...it never did before.... one of the perks of old age I suspect...... LOL
...
Bob......
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Old January 4th, 2022, 01:41 PM   #91
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Marshall...
that's just a plug for the machining process they use to make the carb body
.... drills don't go around corners as you know, so they just drill another hole that intersects that hole and then plug the very start of the hole ...that is actually a short pin that is pressed into the hole.....
as you can imagen that corner is a great place to trap dirt and junk in the fuel
so getting the corner clean is a priority !
all passage ways are as straight a shot as they can make them but that usually means several "Kinks" in the passage way where the drill bits had to stop and another hole was drilled that intersected it.... then the end of the hole was plugged by a short pin....
....life would be much easier if they used grub screws in those holes so you could clean the passage ways but the speed in manufacturing demands quick and dirty solutions ! ...
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Old January 4th, 2022, 02:15 PM   #92
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Yup, plugs for capping off drilling holes. If you've got corrosion on outside of plug where access is clear, you can be sure that there's even more crud built up inside of corners on other side of plug in actual fuel-circuits.

Analogy I use is garden-hose and sprayer-nozzle. People are always focused exclusively on cleaning/replacing jets (sprayer-nozzle). But they never clean 20-ft garden hose. If you've got 12 golf-balls stuck inside garden-hose, no amount of cleaning jets is going to help get flow going.
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Old January 4th, 2022, 04:32 PM   #93
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@Bob KellyIII it'a crazy how many times you think you have something cleaned only to realize after you've put it back together and you're 20 miles down the road and its still not right lol. Thats been my life story lately. luckily a couple of months back the bike was running on both cylinders and not just one!

I THINK well I'm 99% sure now that all the passages are completely clean from debris even the 90 bend. I finally decided to just go ahead and 100% break them down again. I went and got the gumout cleaner you recommended and it worked way better. I wasn't able to get rid of all of the yellowing from the float bowls BUT I was able to get everything sooooo much cleaner than before and air is flowing through everything with ease. I know where the circuits are and how to test them now that Ive seen those pictures! That pictures were exactly what I needed.

So I went ahead and put all new vacuum caps on the 4 ports and ran a tiny brush and q-tip into every single opening. I even took the chokes out and cleaned those and the seats that they mate with. I'm fairly certain theyre done now. I guess I just need to get the jetting right. I have the pod filters and 108 jets in there now. that might be high I'm not sure.



Clean and with new caps! super clean emulsion tubes they were kinda dirty on the inside but the gumout cleaned them

Now I just need to remember how they go back together.

I took them apart because I gas tested them earlier and gas started pouring out of the bottom and I could'nt figure out where from so I assumed it was the Home Depot o-rings on the balancing pipe for the float bowls. they were hard so I had to spend $40 at autozone buying 3 different packs of gas safe o-rings to get doubles....

Now comes assembly
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Old January 4th, 2022, 04:43 PM   #94
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...so I had to spend $40 at autozone buying 3 different packs of gas safe o-rings to get doubles....
www.mcmaster.com has viton O-rings. When I order by about 5 or 6 pm they the parts are delivered the next afternoon for the price of ground shipping.
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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:19 PM   #95
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@Triple Jim it was dumb of me to do that I know but I wanted the stuff right now because I only have a couple of more days off and knowing my luck it would take a week for something to be delivered. I will remember that though I have ordered fasteners from them quite a few times. the ones I got were viton too.


So I just put the carbs on the bike and put gas in the bottle and there was no leaking thankfully so it was the o-rings like I assumed.

but.... it wouldn't fire. The battery died trying to start it. its been cold here all day and getting cold and windy right now. When I picked up on the bike a few days go the tarpaulin wasnt on the bike unfortunately. I guess the recent storms blew it off. I will have to check and see if I have spark tomorrow. I heard it fire twice but only slightly and not fully so I dont know how good my spark is now.

I hate to have to buy a new CDI again. The fuse box and the CDI were both dangling just the perfect way to let all the recent rain go straight into the connectors.

We will see in the AM
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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:33 PM   #96
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main jet recommendations to start out with k&n pod?
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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:36 PM   #97
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Yah ! but that is the case with Humans in general your not alone in that.... no one is perfect..... Not even Ducattiman ! though you can't tell by looking ! LOL
....
I figured you needed to see that, because usually Danno is far ahead of us in the thinking proccess he knew what to post ! thank Danno not me !
Triple Jim is the same way..... when either one of them speak it behoves you to listen and consider what they say.... myself not so much, i'm just a Ranch kid that got good with motorcycles as a kid and hung with it through life , I've had my own bike shop 2 times and did well.... but not fantastic so I went to higher paying jobs ....now I mess with bikes because I want to, not because I have to
they are a part of me, always have been !
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed...and I know that others are far and away brighter than I .... but I have learned alot about bikes in my 68 years on this planet.... and it's served me well.
....
Now I am about to embark on a new adventure with a completely modern New bike.... and to be quite honest I am a bit intimidated ! this will be the 2nd new bike I have ever owned all the rest were used, and most used up already !!! but enough of that !
.... looks like it's time to put those carbs on and SEE if you did it right !
there is no shame in failing the shame is not trying !
I actually think you will have succeeded in getting those things clean... now tuning them is another story... and I ain't going to be much help there as I haven't had my 2012 250R long enough to try and Hop it up ! to me it's great the way it is ! but Danno and Triple Jim have been playing with them for decades ! look to them for help ! their good ! not to mention many others but they are usually here and that is what counts when you need a fast answer !
....
which reminds me I need to order a rebuild kit or another petcock for the ninja... mine leaks ! never shuts off and I've had it apart and it looks good !
....
later !
Bob.......



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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:44 PM   #98
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I doubt if the TCI unit is causing your problem with non-starting unless you have a problem with the 100 ohm resistor in the grey wire.

Is the petcock opening and flowing fuel? When my 250's bowls are empty I connect a spare hose to the vacuum port of the petcock and suck on it until the carbs are full, then put the vacuum line back on it. My inline paper filters have a clear plastic housing so I can see if fuel is flowing as the bows fill.
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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:46 PM   #99
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it takes a STRONG battery to start the ninja ! because the ignition stops working when the voltage drops to 10vdc or less pull the battery out and charge it and use a car battery and jumper cables in the mean time.
DO NOT screw up and check spark on your cables electronics don't like that one bit ! ask me how I know that ! LOL....
....
sense your choke wasn't working before because of the plugged passage ways
you may have to learn a new way to start it.....
my bike is choke on full key on and hit the starter when it fires if I crack the throttle it dies..... so keep that in mind !
....
I use alot of quick start just to get things going most of the time though that is not a real good idea...
but if it don't want to start give each carb a squirt with the throttle fully open, then close it and give it a try
that always starts my Ninja !
( it's a thought anyway)



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Old January 4th, 2022, 06:20 PM   #100
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@Triple Jim its not connected to the tank I have a bench auxiliary tank that I have been using because I dont know how clean the gas tank is and plus it's just easier in this situation. rain killed the original CDI when I was trying to revive it a few months ago. It filled up with rain and I guess when I turned the ignition on it shorted it. I tore the plastic off of it but could never find any burnt traces or anything so who knows.
@Bob KellyIII I did not know ignition stops. Thats probably why. This charge is the same charge from when I put the bike away a couple of months ago I was surprised it wasn't dead. It died choke wide open and trying to start it. its probably nothing because it would start easily when I was doing this before it just wouldnt run well. so it might be low voltage.

Thats exciting on you getting a new bike! I havent had one of those since I was 4 haha. all the others since were used. I have been thinking about getting a new Triumph Scrambler 1200 though. theyre pretty nice but not sure how I feel about spending "new money" haha
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Old January 4th, 2022, 06:47 PM   #101
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What Jim is saying is just turning on the petcock isn't enough to get gas flowing to the carbs after they've been off and cleaned.... sense it's a vacuum operated petcock they won't get fuel till it's ran a bit.... if the fuel bowls are empty
taking and putting the vacuum line in your mouth and sucking on it and getting gas to the carbs will work ( the vacuum line from the petcock diaphragm) it's a quick cure for empty carbs !
....without doing that you can crank till the battery is dead and it may not fire.... ( takes a long time some times to get enough gas in the carbs with these vacuum petcocks! )

but your using an auxiliary gas tank at the moment so getting gas into the carbs isn't a problem..... I'd use a car battery and jumpers and quick start
to get it going and see if it will actually run... if you don't have quick start use a bit of gas in a squirt bottle ....
if that doesn't work pull the plugs and see if they are wet and if they fire
make sure to keep the spark plugs grounded you can fry the coil if the spark plug falls off the cylinder head and is un grounded.
I just hold them onto the head then hit the start button....
....
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Old January 4th, 2022, 06:57 PM   #102
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Yah ! I'm excited as all get out about the new bike coming ! i can hardly wait !
the new Triumph 1200 is a nice machine no doubt but I preferer the older triumphs I grew up with ! i have a 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc i got this last summer and have been working on it every sense.... i got to ride it once so far , and it is a very strong monster ! that is for sure !
now it's ready to go... just waiting for good weather sense I am a Wuss ! LOL
.... I hate the cold !


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Old January 4th, 2022, 07:07 PM   #103
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main jet recommendations to start out with k&n pod?
Start with stock 105 mains and 1.5-2.0mm washers under needles.
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Old January 4th, 2022, 07:21 PM   #104
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Okay so I decided to go out there and put the NOCO jump start on there and it does start but it doesn't idle right. if you let it idle for a while it would just start to lose RPM and die but it doesnt do that anymore. thats awesome. but it kinda gets stuck at 3000 rpm and doesnt leave there no matter what I do. that sounds like a lean spot to me because I should have 0 vacuum leaks since I have replaced everything by now with new parts. it revs fine but it always revved fine. so while I have time until tomorrow to think. That doesnt sound like jetting to me. that sounds more like what it was before. it also makes a popping sound I think coming from the carbs. I cant tell if its back firing or not but its running a lot better than before thats for sure but still not good yet

Or could A/F help with that? I am currently at stock pilot (might need to get a 40) and 108 mains with no shims. I have some 2mm shims.

maybe a 2mm shim will help with idle? sounds possible. or maybe adjusting A/F. I mean at 108 I dont see backing the A/F out more doing much since 108 is already rich from what I have read with these bikes

edit: I was just thinking the popping might be the carbs out of sync. since I tore them apart theyre not in sync anymore
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Old January 4th, 2022, 08:22 PM   #105
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any difference with choke off or full on?
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Old January 4th, 2022, 08:26 PM   #106
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@Danno XYZ by the time it was warm using the choke wanted to kill the engine. I definitely had to use the choke at first since the bike hadn't ran in a couple of months.

Doesn't the A/F adjustment screws only affect low RPM's?

I went out there just now and tried it one more time since the battery isn’t dead anymore and now that it’s warm the it won’t idle at a normal rpm. it wants to shoot up to around 3500 and stay.

I actually went out there to balance the carbs so I did that and I can’t get the dial on the right carb to sit still no matter how much I adjust the in-line thing on the hose to the dial. the left carb doesn’t do it. I think I must be completely clueless

I will post a video tomorrow so you can see what I mean
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Old January 4th, 2022, 10:52 PM   #107
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the air screw for the adjustment of the fuel ratio at idle only effects the engine up to about 2000 RPM the main Jets effect the engine from mid range to WOT
the throttle valve cutaway is what effects the engine just off idle to just above mid range.
hardly anyone ever changes the throttle valve cut away and most people have no trouble with just off idle because of that (grin)
the ninja has a different set up than the old Mulkini's and they call the parts by different names but the function is the same
too lean a setting in the air screw will make it want to hang at a higher RPM
open the air screw to 2 1/2 turns on the left carburetor and 1 3/4 turns on the right.... I just read the manual and it said to do that ! their not set the same !
you have to get it to idle before you can tinker with the carb settings like synchronization.... if the throttles open at the same time by eye that is close enough for now ! on my Triumph I put a finger on one slide in the throat of the carb and look at the slide on the other and that way You can get them perfectly in unison.... the Ninja has butterflys that actuate the vacume diaphram behind it and that pulls up on the slide so a finger on one butterfly
and looking at the other you can get them in unison fairly easily
....I would try all the way out to 3 turns on the air screws but no further
with it running at 3,000 RPM right now your not running on the air screws anyway so you have to get the RPM down to see if the air screw turning is changing how it is running if you can set the idle to 1500RPM and keep it running that should help you set the airscrews (1000 rpm WOULD BE BETTER !)
i found it super simple to set the airscrews on the ninja with all the fairings off it... on one side but the other side was next to impossible for me ( after market air screw was very tight )so I had to make a tool but I got it running really good just by listening to the RPM at idle and turning the airscrew till it was the fastest.... then back off about 1/8 turn....( leave it a bit rich !)
....
if you have the stock jets you should have put them in the carbs already but if you didn't you should now ! LOL
having too big of main jets will mess you up when your trying to isolate problems.....
too big of main jets do not make it go faster , if their done right they will help
but usually it just runs fat and blubbers on acceleration,and smokes !
the reason to change main jet size is not because you changed the exhaust pipe.... but because the spark plug color check you did after the pipe was put on tells you that the engine is now running too lean. there is a world of difference !
....
"Return it to stock and see what you got" still holds true even today !
when you start modifying things you can get some really strange reactions out of an engine !
.....
later !
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Old January 4th, 2022, 11:55 PM   #108
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@Danno XYZ by the time it was warm using the choke wanted to kill the engine. I definitely had to use the choke at first since the bike hadn't ran in a couple of months.
Idle is way too rich if choke kills it. Put factory 38 pilots in.

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Doesn't the A/F adjustment screws only affect low RPM's?
Yes, set them according to manual. I think only later new-gen '08+ models have different L/R needles and different L/R mixture-screw settings

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I went out there just now and tried it one more time since the battery isn’t dead anymore and now that it’s warm the it won’t idle at a normal rpm. it wants to shoot up to around 3500 and stay.
You're very close! Adjust idle-speed knob to set warmed-up idle to 1500rpms.

Then use choke for cold-starts. Choke will work as intended if idle-mixtures are stock. Won't be able to do it without stock pilots.

Remember, these bikes ran PERFECTLY when new leaving showroom floor. There's no reason to change anything. People only noticed going to bigger jets improved things only because they had dirty clogged carbs over time and were too lazy or clueless to properly clean them. So yeah, bigger jets and richer settings may compensate for dirty clogged carbs temporarily, but those deposits will continue to build and in couple months, they have to go to even larger jets again and again. But bike never actually runs as well as factory-fresh condtion. Now that your carbs may be factory-fresh clean, you'll want to use factory jet sizes and settings for everything.

BTW - right carb may have vacuum-leak. Inspect rubber-manifolds to head. Maybe swap them to see if fluctuations changes sides. Inspect slide diaphragm for leaks. Vacuum-ports/passages at front of venturis may be clogged.

Did you set valve-clearances identically for both cylinders?
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Old January 5th, 2022, 01:54 AM   #109
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Thanks Danno ! i didn't know the airscrews had different setting through the years.... ( and I thought the 2.5 turns out and 1.75 turns out were bazaar ! )
.....
I concur with the observation that if the choke kills it it must be too rich as my bike will show no change even when warm if the choke is turned on full it may slow down a small amount but that's all.
....
it took me a while to get my Ninja sorted but the more I ran it the better it got
at first it only wanted to run at 3/4 throttle and above and would not idle at all
anything below 2000 rpm and it flat died.... that told me real quickly the idle circuit was plugged....which it was . after I got it to run on both cylinders
it still refused to idle but I could get it to right near 2000 rpm and hold it there. but it was still not idling... again I cleaned the carbs and I was sure they were clean in every passage way...... but unfortunately i was WRONG ! their still dirty!
although it ran passably for the last part of the summer and I got several good rides out of her as the weather turned colder the dirty carbs started to make it run worse and worse....
I fully intend on pulling the carbs in the spring time and installing some paper inline fuel filters as I really think this bike needs them and if I can't get the carbs clean this time I will send them to Ducattiman !
their such a @#$%&^ to get on and off as it is, I don't want to do it again and again !....
.....
an easy way to tell if you have a vacuum leak at the intake boots is sprey wd-40 on them as it's running ...if you do that and it speeds up and runs better for a few seconds you got a vacuum leak ! if no change you don't.... not there anyway ! but these things have so many hoses that any one of them could be the leak your looking for so sprey everything ! but be careful it is flammable ! do it when the engine is not hot ! .... if you sprey wd-40 and you see a white cloud of vapor rize don't sprey again ! its too warm and can ignite .... but your hoses and pipes will love the wd-40 ! it will breath new life back into them....
....
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Old January 5th, 2022, 08:25 AM   #110
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This is what I was talking about. the lower choke intake comes down and runs to this little brass ball and then that brass ball runs to the outside of the carb body to another brass ball. its got corrosion on it but the ball on the outside of the body doesnt have corrosion
In must case that generally causes by salt-water or fuel electrolysis from some kind fuel additives and just water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide can do this over time
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Old January 5th, 2022, 09:08 AM   #111
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I have new intake boots. I bought those before when I was chasing a really high idle. I was checking with brake cleaner and they definitely were perished. it would kill the bike when I sprayed it on the boots

It has the original slow jets I don't have any of those. I have tons of mains though from 90-160. its got the 108 in there now. I don't even remember what the stock main jet was to put it back in
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Old January 5th, 2022, 09:09 AM   #112
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@Bob KellyIII I started out at 2.5 turns and then tried 1.5 turns and it ran a lot worse and then I tried 3 and 3.5 and there was no difference. since it was cold and dark I never got a chance to check for vacuum leaks at the intakes but I will in a few!


@DannoXYZ Something I realized is that it idled so much better when cool. so I guess the 108 is rich? but I have pods and stock exhaust. I'm still not sure what the stock mains were

I also need to check the valves. That was the next step that I was going to do before but I got fed up from about 2 days of messing with it everyday and couldn't get the carbs right so I put it on the side of the shop. I will check them today.
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Old January 5th, 2022, 09:29 AM   #113
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@DannoXYZ Something I realized is that it idled so much better when cool. so I guess the 108 is rich? but I have pods and stock exhaust. I'm still not sure what the stock mains were
Quote:
Quote:
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main jet recommendations to start out with k&n pod?
Start with stock 105 mains and 1.5-2.0mm washers under needles.
Mains don't affect idle in any way. Issues you're having at idle is due to 40 pilots and too much fuel. Put factory 38s back in.

Stock main is 105, put those back in as well. Pods don't improve flow in any way because factory airbox & filtre is not restrictive. They're same size as on my CBR600RR which flows 4x as much air. Dyno-testing has shown that pods don't increase airflow and doesn't improve power for ninjette. On BIG '80s +1200cc 4-cyl bikes, yes, squeezing 4x carbs and one airbox into that space may cause some restrictions and pods may free up some flow. What works on big 4-cyl bike does not on 2-cyl 250.

Racers with full-exhaust upgrades and +20% more flow & power are using 100-102 mains on this bike. Simply too rich from factory as it is.

Need to track down what's causing erratic vacuum on right carb.

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Old January 5th, 2022, 10:00 AM   #114
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I dont have 40 pilots though thats what I have been saying. I have only changed the main jets. the 38 has always been in there

Thats a really good picture @DannoXYZ I saved it

Before I start back on the carbs I'm just going to do the valves. it looks really easy and even better I don't need shims. I think I am going to flush the coolant also. it looks fine but for all I know it could be the original coolant.
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Old January 5th, 2022, 10:26 AM   #115
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Ugh Danno ! I do not like your Jetting chart ! Looks nothing like
the many other's I have seen...for bikes in general according to that chart my explanation was Over simplified and missing the jet needle completely
....
throughout all my motorcycle dealings the rule has been leave the needle jet alone ...it's fine the way it is and it matches the throttle valve cutaway.... so you get a 14:1 air ratio.... do anything to it and you mess up that ratio badly
in mid range RPM....
where did you get that chart Danno ? is it Ninja 250 spacific ?
.... I think I'm being taken back to school here ! LOL
....
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Old January 5th, 2022, 10:37 AM   #116
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OK what would give too much fuel at idle if he's using stock pilot jets !?!?!
....choke not shutting off like it should ?
.... float level set too high in the bowls ? that would also make it hard starting
with a tendency to flood !
....
that's all I can think of besides vacuum lines hooked up wrong somewhere.
....
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Old January 5th, 2022, 10:38 AM   #117
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I also need to check the valves. That was the next step that I was going to do before but I got fed up from about 2 days of messing with it everyday and couldn't get the carbs right so I put it on the side of the shop. I will check them today.
If your valves aren't closing completely you'll chase carburetor problems forever.
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Old January 5th, 2022, 11:42 AM   #118
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OK what would give too much fuel at idle if he's using stock pilot jets !?!?!
....choke not shutting off like it should ?
.... float level set too high in the bowls ? that would also make it hard starting
with a tendency to flood !
....
that's all I can think of besides vacuum lines hooked up wrong somewhere.
....
Bob....
Should actually measure pilot jets, might have been hogged out by PO with drill bit. And idle mixture screws. There was one recent case where bike started and ran even with screws fully tightened! For now, tightening up screws by 1/4-1/2 turn should allow proper idle-mixtures and allow choke to work.

Although valve-clearances should be spot-on 1st, otherwise he'll be chasing phantom issues in circles forever.
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Old January 5th, 2022, 11:45 AM   #119
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@Bob KellyIII I know for a fact my floats are set perfectly. Every single time I have taken the floats out I have checked them to make sure and or adjusted them. Always at 17mm. I think all Keihin CV carbs are 17mm.

-Correct float height
-Stock 38 slow jets
-its not hard to start once its ran for a few and plus last night (40) was the first time its been started in 2 months or so and its been in the 20s and 30s lately so it would be hard to start for the first time in two months.

Since I dont have the enricher I think I need to have a hose running from the small nipples on each carb to connect them together. is that right for balancing?
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Old January 5th, 2022, 11:48 AM   #120
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@DannoXYZ thats a good idea. the local bike shop is family friends I will just stop by there and they will probably give me 2 new 38 slow jets. thanks for mentioning that I dont know if thats the case. probably not though since the man that bought the bike new (2006) rode it for 3 miles and put it up and then I bought it in 2011. The local bike shop got it running again. Theyre not the kind of shop that would drill out slow jets but still. I will get two new ones. the bike only has 3k-something miles on it. so I dont think the valves are out but I like all my bikes to be mechanically sound so I will check them.


About 2 months ago my Triumph started running super lean for no reason and I had to go up to 160 jets (I was running 158s before and it ran AMAZING) which no one runs in Triumphs its too high no matter what you have done to intake or exhaust and I kept trying to figure out why and about a week and a half ago on my hour rides to Birmingham my bike kept cutting in and out at highway speed. like split second dying. it would do it for 10 seconds and then quit and then start again. its that feeling of running out of gas. I was sweating the first time that it started. turns out the right intake boot has failed somewhere. one shot of starter fluid kills the bike when sprayed on the right boot.

So its understandable that I had to buy new boots for the Ninja 2 months ago. The ninja is a model year older than my Triumph. That rubber doesnt last forever. The Triumph had a hard 2 years of everyday riding in Boston though rain snow and shine.



BUT OKAY. I just got some Prestone antifreeze and a fresh bottle of starter fluid. I am going to set the valves back into the correct tolerances and go from there
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