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View Poll Results: So ... how long?
A week 9 14.52%
A month 14 22.58%
A couple months 30 48.39%
Still don't like them (Idk why I have a ninja...) 9 14.52%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 26th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #1
rdrgoB
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How long before you were comfortable in the twisties?

So I've had my bike for about a month now, and have been practicing almost daily since I got it. I feel comfortable on the street and highway, but have been struggling with the winding roads. I started off taking the curves at a slow enough pace where I'm pretty sure I was annoying all the drivers behind me (boo-hoo, they got over it) and now can take them at a normal pace. However, I can definitely see where I need improvements. Thankfully, speed isn't the most fun part; shifting/accelerating/braking is by far the most enjoyable part for me.

The good:
-I brake and downshift before the turn
-No longer scared to use front brake a lot
-In slow, out fast
-I don't look at my speedometer before a turn but rather feel it out
-Comfortable leaning


Needs improvement:
-I love engine braking, but I'm realizing that a bad downshift can be as dangerous as over-braking and locking up the rear
-When looking through the turn I often want to venture into the oncoming lane - and the yellow line is slippery if I get on it
-The transition between braking before the turn and then accelerating isn't always smooth


How long did you take to get comfortable, and what specific problems are you working on?
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #2
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Post up your chicken strips (edges of tire that have no wear) and lets see how far you're leaning!
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #3
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It took me a full season to really be able to get into it smoothly and not sh!t my pants every time at one point or another.

Chicken strips don't matter. I still have 1/4" on both sides, and that's after a track day. I'm definitely not the fastest guy out there because I'm not completely comfortable on the track like that yet, but I was definitely booking way faster than I ever did on the street. Then again, before I got into body positioning, I had no chicken strips at all on my last set of tires. I consistently dragged toes and pegs.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrgoB View Post
-When looking through the turn I often want to venture into the oncoming lane - and the yellow line is slippery if I get on it
Fix this first and in a hurry....

The rest is different for each rider, no set time or mileage. Go at your pace an no other.

If your ready to do spirited riding in the canyons and you wanna get better faster, nothing comes close to doing a track day.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #5
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lol, I'm actually in need of a rear tire .... but not because of the chicken strips
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
It took me a full season to really be able to get into it smoothly and not sh!t my pants every time at one point or another.

Chicken strips don't matter. I still have 1/4" on both sides, and that's after a track day. I'm definitely not the fastest guy out there because I'm not completely comfortable on the track like that yet, but I was definitely booking way faster than I ever did on the street. Then again, before I got into body positioning, I had no chicken strips at all on my last set of tires. I consistently dragged toes and pegs.
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1/4 inch is not much dude. You should see the strips on the 250 I bought and the guy rode it over 3000mi before I bought it
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #7
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Choneofakind is right about the chicken strips. I have drug my elbow and still left the track with chicken strips, about 1mm worth if I remember right. Do I remember chone?
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #8
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I wanted to see them because they could be massive and it would be easy to show him all the room for improvement there is. They don't necessarily need to be scrubbed all the way off to have a good lean going but they would be a good indicator
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #9
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Yeah there was still about 1mm there!

Sean I see what you mean. It's a good way to say hey you still got plenty of tire left, so don't worry so much when it feels like you're leaning really far.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #10
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I think I'm starting to take the turn too early, so I don't actually get the chance to lean far and that's part of the reason I'm so close to the oncoming lane

Got a lead to work on for tomorrow at least.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #11
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Please find this book in your library, read it, and most importantly, practice the concepts that it teaches. It will help you stay alive by introducing you to the concept of delayed apexing, among other things. Most things are better learned the hard way, but canyon riding is not one of them.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1933958359
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Old July 26th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #12
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I had a bike 20 years ago in college and 3 years ago decide to buy another. I trailered my new bike home from the dealer and had to unload it in a parking lot near my house due to the slope of my driveway. I remember the first time I turned into the neighborhood worrying about what speed, what gear and what lean - what I'd forgotten in 20 years. It took a few months to get comfortable, and (sadly??) after 3 years, I lay it over without fear of dropping.... I know the throttle will be there for me and I absolutely trust that I can goose it to get it upright or just turn a little sharper. This is for slow speed turns like 90° onto a cross street or a turn into a driveway.

As for the twisties on the road, after a few weeks I got a feel for how "right" it felt to pour on the throttle at the apex of a curve. Then I watched "Twist the wrist 2" and now I know why. My initial fear of curves at speed was that the bike would slide out from under me. Tires have more grip than I ever imagined... wow. Went for a ride with my neighbor on his HD 883 a few weeks ago, and I was exiting the curves about 20-25 mph faster than him. Later he told me that he expected to see me sprawled out in the ditch, but that never happened. I was exiting 35mph advisory speed curves at 90+.

It has taken three years and a MSF course. I grew my skills slowly. I gotta admit that the distance to stop at speed still sneaks up on me. When you ride, don't daze out - make every minute you are riding a learning experience. Learn the feel of the bike by weaving within your lane at different speeds. Take your time and ramp up slowly. Think of it this way: You can try to skip ahead of your skils and crash and spend 6 weeks and a lot of money healing, OR you can ramp up slowly over the same 6 week period.

We just got my wife a Vulcan 800. Now I watch her fear of leaning and remember when that was me. Ironically, some of the things I see her do are causing it to be more difficult for her... like going too slowly thru a banked curve in the road and falling to the inside instead of following a line. It'll come for her just as it did for me... and I'm not rushing her, although there are times I'm really bored following her.

Don't get in a hurry, don't push too hard and enjoy it!
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Old July 27th, 2012, 05:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Choneofakind is right about the chicken strips. I have drug my elbow and still left the track with chicken strips, about 1mm worth if I remember right. Do I remember chone?
Oh hell yes. Dragging elbow is awesome. Not that I would know personally. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrgoB View Post
I think I'm starting to take the turn too early, so I don't actually get the chance to lean far and that's part of the reason I'm so close to the oncoming lane
Yes, you likely are. Early turn-in is a very common problem for riders both new and veteran. Your biggest error in running into the other lane is probably you're not looking far enough through the turn. Lead with your head, not your eyes. A good rule of thumb that I like to use is the bike will follow my nose, so point your nose in the place you want to the bike to end up. That's why in a good, solid U-turn, even at slow speeds, you actually look backwards over your shoulder. Look to your exit.
And like others have said, Twist of the Wrist is a necessity. Total Control by Lee Parks is another good resource.
In slow, fast out, so keep it within your own comfort zone.

Edit: By the way, I rode my first mountain ride about 2 months after learning to ride. It was WAY too early for me. I dragged my stock muffler. lol! But hey, I didn't crash. I went into it blindly like a dolt. Just be sure to watch some youtube videos, read one of the books above, and prepare yourself before hitting serious mountain twisties.
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Old July 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #14
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A few weeks or a month or so after I bought my bike my MSF instructor invited me out for a ride with his friends. I assumed it would just be a fun easy ride, I was wrong... It was an aggressive canyon carving adventure! I was scared out of my mind! I picked it up fairly quickly thankfully and have enjoyed the twisties ever since. It was dangerous and reckless though, I had no idea what I was doing the first time or how to properly handle the motorcycle. Thanks to TOTWII I now have a much better understanding though
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Old July 27th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARc View Post
Please find this book in your library, read it, and most importantly, practice the concepts that it teaches. It will help you stay alive by introducing you to the concept of delayed apexing, among other things. Most things are better learned the hard way, but canyon riding is not one of them.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1933958359
That book scared the **** out of me. I'm glad I read it after taking the msf course.
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Old July 27th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #16
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Post up your chicken strips (edges of tire that have no wear) and lets see how far you're leaning!
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #17
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Why you gotta intimidate the noobs??
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:40 PM   #18
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I think I got a pretty good handle on my suspension.

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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #19
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Here's the strips on my 1000, lol

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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #20
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #21
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Show your street tires noob!
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #22
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Show your street tires noob!
haha i think there is 4" on each side
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #23
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I hate new tires. I'm so afraid of going too far in a turn because I have no idea how much grip there is
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #24
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I hate new tires. I'm so afraid of going too far in a turn because I have no idea how much grip there is
More then you think, the picture of my slicks was after the first day on them. Installed at the track, and 2 laps later was dragging knee
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #25
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Once I get 100mi on them I'll feel better
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Old July 27th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrgoB View Post
Needs improvement:
-I love engine braking, but I'm realizing that a bad downshift can be as dangerous as over-braking and locking up the rear
-When looking through the turn I often want to venture into the oncoming lane - and the yellow line is slippery if I get on it
-The transition between braking before the turn and then accelerating isn't always smooth
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=579

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=526

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...showtopic=2423

Read post #12 one thousand times.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #27
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Damn, those tires are hot!
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Old July 28th, 2012, 05:59 AM   #28
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It's going to vary from rider to rider with how long it takes to get comfortable. It's realizing that you can push yourself a little more and still be alright (but don't go out of your comfort zone). I spent a lot of time several times a week at a local road that is maybe only a mile long but there isn't a single straight away and I just practiced setting up turns and body positioning and not so much worrying about speed. Over the course of a month I found that naturally over time I was getting more comfortable going a little faster and being smoother without trying too hard, and continually keep getting better all around. I recommend going to a twisty road and just spending some time practicing your form before trying to be fast. And don't recommend trying to go full lean on the street, if a situation comes up and you're in full lean you won't be able to do much, plus the road conditions aren't always ideal for it. Just go your own pace and don't worry it.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #29
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great posts
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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Immediately. It's the place I learned to ride street motorcycles.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #31
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Side note since tires came up, new tires are just fine from mile 1!

Before my track day at mid-o, I had new Diablo scoots installed. Got maybe 40 miles on the day before just to get the pads bedding in a little, but no turns at all practically.

Went to the track. Had no problems whatsoever. they stuck like glue from the getgo. Don't worry about new tires. They only need to hit every part once to get the shiny stuff off. Then they're the best they'll ever be because they're new.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #32
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In the 5 months that I've owned my ninja I've only clocked in about 1500miles. About a third of that would have been on twistes. Not too uncomfortable on them, but the places I ride, it's hard to cross 40mph... Very narrow potholed ridden roads and many sharp turns... Not to mention oncoming traffic...





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Old July 29th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #33
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Thanks, Alex; they may help the OP and others checking this thread latter on.

Hans, it seems that a 200~250 cc double purpose bike would better suit your roads:

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/ti...dual_sport.htm
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Old July 29th, 2012, 09:51 AM   #34
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Hate to be THAT guy but...
Stop practicing your riding skills at the canyons.
Get yourself to the track if you wanna push/improve your limits.
Then take what you learned on the track and push your self 85% on the canyons if you have to and ride them for pleasure, not a means of pushing 100% and leaving no margin for error.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #35
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If I get anywhere close to knee dragging, My back tire starts slipping... But then again I'm using the stock 250 pre gen tires... Yeah, when my others went bad, I ordered the exact same thing... Why upgrade >.> <.<
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #36
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Hate to be THAT guy but...
Stop practicing your riding skills at the canyons.
Get yourself to the track if you wanna push/improve your limits.
Then take what you learned on the track and push your self 85% on the canyons if you have to and ride them for pleasure, not a means of pushing 100% and leaving no margin for error.
Preaching not pushing the limits o fthe bike on the street doesn't make you THAT guy....


...preaching them to a newb asking for general riding safety/practice/procedure tips makes you look really foolish, why be THAT guy? The only people talking about riding really hard are track guys, they just referenced his chicken strips per his comments about leaning in far enough but not being able to corner properly.

He doesn't want to push any limits, he cites that he barely takes corners at legal road speeds. Read the thread or don't comment FFS....

#1 most annoying thing on forums is people who can't keep threads in context which leads to misunderstandings and derailed banted. /rant
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Old August 8th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mulholland View Post
Preaching not pushing the limits o fthe bike on the street doesn't make you THAT guy....


...preaching them to a newb asking for general riding safety/practice/procedure tips makes you look really foolish, why be THAT guy? The only people talking about riding really hard are track guys, they just referenced his chicken strips per his comments about leaning in far enough but not being able to corner properly.

He doesn't want to push any limits, he cites that he barely takes corners at legal road speeds. Read the thread or don't comment FFS....

#1 most annoying thing on forums is people who can't keep threads in context which leads to misunderstandings and derailed banted. /rant
Track is for all levels. I started tracking after 1000 miles on street. I had chicken strips the size of my arm on my tires before I started tracking.

You don't get on there and push from day one. You build up your skillset. There's no better place to learn about proper riding than track. If you're too slow, control riders come in and lead you and make room for you so others just pass you at their own street without disturbing you.

Hell, some of the fastest dudes I know bought their bikes and rode on track the first time after their MSF courses.

So before you assume I didn't read or understand the OP's points, try to understand mine. Pushing HIS limits isn't the same as pushing MY limits isn't the same as pushing Valentino Rossi's limits. And guess what's common in these 3 examples? They can all be achieved on the same track. Safely.

He'll never learn proper cornering on the street SAFELY. He'll f up, run across the double line a few times and get lucky and keep improving OR he'll f up and get hurt or worse. Practice that stuff OFF the f'in road THEN ride on the street at your 75-80% percent safely.

Get it?

PS: Looking at your nickname, it's not very surprising that you were upset with my post
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Old August 9th, 2012, 12:21 AM   #38
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At which point on the track do they roll out the cars and oncoming traffic? The track is a different experience than the street ever will be. That's why drivers education isn't done on closed circuit road courses. Your logic is flawed and thoughtless. The skills one learns at the track in a car or motorcycle translate very well into comfortably maneuvering risky situations on the street but else wise have no bearing on commuting. The track can teach you a lot, but only experience on public roads will make you more comfortable on public roads. The track does not have a center divider, curbs, potholes, oncoming traffic, stops and starts, etc. Please, continue to educate everyone though.

If half the squids out there learned to ride to 95% the limits of their bike on a track before hitting the street, then hit the street and rode your claimed 75%, they woul die, because the track isn't a public road and is a completely different environment designed to facilitate freedom. It's completely different. The skills have transferrence sure, but you have it backwards in my opinion. Learn to commute it and operate it normally, then when you want to learn more than basic riding skills and push it, learn on a safe closed course, and then enjoy the daily grind that much more. Would you have 16yr olds taking driver's ed on close course race tracks and learning racing lines to grant them a license to drive on public roads rather than being trained to drive said public roads? That's insane... However, you learn to drive normal, then attend a few hpde's and that's a recipe for a good driver. Have whatever opinion you like, I think you're giving terrible advice though sending someone who is nervous cornering within traffic lanes to a track environment though.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #39
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I think you're missing the point richard. The track is a better place to learn how to corner compared to twisties
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Old August 9th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #40
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I think you're missing the point richard. The track is a better place to learn how to corner compared to twisties


You're making this way too personal, take a chill pill
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